Out of curiosity…

DMZ · August 27, 2008 at 5:54 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Comments

90 Responses to “Out of curiosity…”

  1. galaxieboi on August 27th, 2008 5:59 pm

    I voted for Silva due to the expectations (well, not OUR expectations) and his salary.

  2. RussM on August 27th, 2008 6:06 pm

    Here’s my write-in vote for Sexson.

  3. RaoulDuke37 on August 27th, 2008 6:19 pm

    Johjima – He fell the furthest.

  4. TotallyNotWilly on August 27th, 2008 6:20 pm

    Vidro was allowed to bring his putrid act to the ballpark so many times this year that I have to vote for him.

    I’d also like a poll for management…who is the most to blame for this season’s failure: Lincoln, Armstrong, Bavasi or McLaren? My vote’s for Lincoln only because by the end of last year he should have known what crap…in baseball terms…he had in Bavasi and McLaren. Yet he extended both of them for this season.

  5. Benne on August 27th, 2008 6:29 pm

    That was a harder decision than I thought it would be. Vidro was a walking corpse all season, Johjima and Batista completely fell off the cliff after decent performances in ’07, and Silva is…well, Silva. EOF didn’t stick around long enough to get consideration.

    I ultimately went with Silva, mostly due to his salary/performance ratio being the worst of this group.

  6. NickBob on August 27th, 2008 6:29 pm

    I voted Vidro, but agree wholeheartedly with RussM.

  7. Slurve on August 27th, 2008 6:35 pm

    Why is EOF on the list? Sexson should be on the list over EOF…

  8. JimThomsen1965 on August 27th, 2008 6:41 pm

    I voted Silva, on a suckage-per-dollar basis.

  9. manny ortez on August 27th, 2008 6:42 pm

    Second-time commenter, so, hello! Vidro takes the cake for me. I know it was “empty,” but at least he hit for average last year, so the dropoff is pretty hard to get over. And, in my opinion, the gap between what you expect/want out of the position, and the player’s actual performance, was the largest for Vidro.

  10. DAMellen on August 27th, 2008 6:43 pm

    I said Johjima because I expected him to have a pretty good season and he had an abysmal one. I thought EOF would be pretty good too, but I thought Johjima would be a borderline all-star (I was sure he could beat out Dioner Navarro). The other three have sucked more and I think that their numbers are a better representation of their talent levels, but they weren’t surprises so they aren’t as meaningful to me.

  11. Graham on August 27th, 2008 6:44 pm

    I am baffled that Batista only has 14% of the vote.

    And that Yuniesky Betancourt isn’t on the list.

  12. Jeff Nye on August 27th, 2008 6:45 pm

    I voted for Vidro, because he in my opinion was the one who most interfered with the club’s ability to win ballgames, with as awful as he was and how badly he was used.

  13. thegroovewrangler on August 27th, 2008 6:45 pm

    I had to go with Silva. No one else on the list sucked in a fashion unbecoming of a gentleman.
    I am trying to think of any Mariner, in eighteen seasons of fandom, that I like less than Carlos Silva. Not one comes to mind.
    Character may not be a rational justifaction for putting him below Miguel Batista in this poll, but even though Silva’s performance might be a little better, they’re both still just loaves in the same bowl of shit, so I’m going with it.

  14. Mothy on August 27th, 2008 6:47 pm

    This was a tough choice. We had so many well deserving candidates this year. But in the end I went with Vidro. I thought about Johjima since his hitting stats certainly aren’t any better than Vidro’s, and last time I checked was actually a bit worse. But at least Johjima can play a defensive position passably. Vidro only had one job and didn’t do it well. And Silva if you calculate his salary into the equation certainly is deserving, but Vidro also was far overpayed for his “services”.
    Also, Batista… Wow it is a tough decision. But I’ll stick with Vidro just because he was the DH.

  15. Kouvre on August 27th, 2008 7:04 pm

    Johjima got a free pass for having some semblance of defense. Turbo has no defense, and gave a legendary horrible performance in the position that expects offensive results most, since it’s the only one that, you know, requires no defensive contribution. As bad as Silva, Beluga, and O’Flaherty are, nothing compares to the yuck that was Jose “Turbo” Vidro.

  16. MattThompson on August 27th, 2008 7:10 pm

    I voted for Vidro, for reasons mentioned above. A pricey DH who can’t hit, and who consistently batted fourth, makes him the standout for this season, in my eyes. Silva only plays every fifth day, while Kenji at least plays defense.

    If the question were “Who is the worst Mariner,” rather than worst performance of 2008, I’d be more torn between Silva and Kenji, though.

  17. Joe C on August 27th, 2008 7:14 pm

    I’d like to vote for Washburn just because I’m pissed he’s still here, but otherwise it’s Silva I guess.

  18. Graham on August 27th, 2008 7:15 pm

    If the question were “Who is the worst Mariner,” rather than worst performance of 2008, I’d be more torn between Silva and Kenji, though.

    And you’d be wrong about both of them.

  19. Slurve on August 27th, 2008 7:18 pm

    “If the question were “Who is the worst Mariner,” rather than worst performance of 2008, I’d be more torn between Silva and Kenji, though.”

    Do you really want to stick by that?

  20. scraps on August 27th, 2008 7:25 pm

    I took the question literally. Nothing about value, so no salary considerations; nothing about expectations, so no consideration of disappointment. A simple, Who’s been the worst? Who has contributed the most to the Mariners losing games, while contributing the least to winning? So I chose Vidro.

  21. Colm on August 27th, 2008 7:42 pm

    Would you look at this?
    Slurve said:
    ‘“If the question were “Who is the worst Mariner,” rather than worst performance of 2008, I’d be more torn between Silva and Kenji, though.”
    ‘Do you really want to stick by that?’

    The worst player performance debate might be raging, but the “Most improved punctuation by a poster” debate is over before it began.

  22. Slurve on August 27th, 2008 7:48 pm

    Uh I’m honored to accept this award?

  23. MattThompson on August 27th, 2008 7:49 pm

    By Worst Mariner, I meant those on the list. Obviously, there are worse overall performers. Though, I guess Batista is on the list, so meh.

    But by “worst” I was thinking of overall performance v contract. Silva and Kenji trump just about all by virtue of current performance and time/dollars remaining on their contracts.

  24. Eastside Crank on August 27th, 2008 7:50 pm

    My vote is still for Bavasi and his uncanny ability to identify the very worst free agent pitchers and sign them to long term contracts. I think Page 2 would agree with Vidro though: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=baker/080822 . Since he was batting DH and put in a power position in the order; I have to go with Vidro.

  25. MarinerMC on August 27th, 2008 7:51 pm

    -It’s unfair to pin it on O’Flaherty because he was up for a couple of weeks
    -Batista hasn’t been right this year, he’s been banged up
    -I don’t know what happened to Kenji, he got off to a horrible start and never recovered. Look at his numbers the last two years, he was a very productive catcher..
    - Vidro has declined over the last few years and he is just a shell of his former self aka: he’s a slow singles hitter.
    - SILVA received my vote, he was paid the big bucks to be our #3 starter and after an impressive April has sucked since then and pitched like a scary mix of Weaver and Ramirez from the year before.

  26. Tuomas on August 27th, 2008 7:52 pm

    Who voted for Eric O’Flaherty? The world wonders…

    My vote was for Miguel Batista. As others have said more eloquently, Kenji still plays defense and is an old catcher, so his collapse is not entirely unexpected. Silva’s not much worse than his career norms and can’t be blamed for either his contract or for moving from Jason Bartlett to Yuni. Vidro was beyond terrible but isn’t a Mariner anymore, so he has that going for him. Batista was a guy who I knew was declining, but I hadn’t expected him to be 65 ERA+ bad.

    Plus, I wanted to vote for Yuni.

  27. Mothy on August 27th, 2008 7:58 pm

    Yuni is worthy of consideration. He does play defense, unlike Vidro, but he plays defense horribly. That combined with not hitting certainly puts him in the top 5 worst mariners for the season I think.

  28. Spanky on August 27th, 2008 8:05 pm

    EOF?!?!?!? Wow! I had completely forgotten about him. What’s up with him? Where did he go and how did he do this year? Is he going to get a call-up in September? Is he damaged goods now (mentally)?

  29. Slurve on August 27th, 2008 8:06 pm

    He is on the DL in AAA currently.

  30. matthew on August 27th, 2008 8:10 pm

    Silva gets my vote — but it would be Bavasi if it wasn’t just players.

  31. SequimRealEstate on August 27th, 2008 8:11 pm

    05 & 08 same for me $$. Per suckage.

  32. Dylan S on August 27th, 2008 8:16 pm

    The question asked for the worst PLAYER performance, so we have to adjust for differences in playing time. For instance Yunni’s WPA/LI of -2.13 looks much worse than Vidro’s -1.40, but it is really not that bad as Yunni has had more PA’s to rack up the negative WPA/LI. I scaled each player’s WPA/LI to a full season by projecting starters to 30 games, EOF to 50 games (that seemed reasonable for a LOOGY), and hitters to 700 PA, and I called it *WPA/LI*.

    Player Games WPA/LI *WPA/LI*

    Silva 25 -1.37 -1.64
    Batista 20 -3.07 -4.61
    EOF 7 -0.84 -6.00

    Player PA WPA/LI *WPA/LI* Position Defense Total

    Sexson 327 -1.43 -3.06 -0.5 -1.0 -4.56
    Kenji 334 -1.93 -4.05 +1.5 -0.5 -3.05
    Vidro 330 -1.40 -2.97 -1.0 NA -3.97
    Yunni 466 -2.13 -3.20 +1.0 -1.0 -3.20

    I’m not going to count EOF because his sample size is to small (6.2 IP) to project to a full season.

    Batista is the winner (loser) closely followed by Sexon who is mostly dragged down by playing crappy defense at an easy position.

    Yunni and Kenji, and Silva are pretty close (note that Yunni could jump over Kenji by improving his defense).

    And Silva is actually the best of the bunch by a huge margin. Why did so many people vote for (against) Silva? Because they saw him pitch! What they saw is better reflected in Silva’s WPA which is -2.5 and projects to -3.0 over the season. (Silva has been suffering from not performing in the clutch, so much for veteran grit.) Such are the dangers of using your emotions to evaluate performance, after all Beltre’s WPA is -2.25 but his WPA/LI is -0.48. He has simply been unlucky, same with Silva.

  33. msb on August 27th, 2008 8:19 pm

    EOF?!?!?!? Wow! I had completely forgotten about him.

    me too. I wasn’t sure what that said about how he should rank in this vote.

  34. CCW on August 27th, 2008 8:27 pm

    I went with Vidro because he was the Designated Hitter, yet he didn’t hit. He was completely worthless as a major league baseball player this year. I don’t think you can quite say that about any of the others.

  35. VaughnStreet on August 27th, 2008 8:28 pm

    On a team where horrible performances were the norm, no one was more horrible than Jose Vidro. But he had accomplices in this conspiracy to play the worst baseball possible. Bavasi, McLaren and Riggleman share equally.

    Funny thing, but Pepe Vidro, in that ad, gave one of the season’s best performances.

  36. WTF_Ms on August 27th, 2008 8:29 pm

    I vote for Vidro…both of them! He has sucked for longer than Kenji, so he wins. Sexon would have been the first choice if he was included.

  37. Griffey IsMySurrogateDad on August 27th, 2008 8:40 pm

    More polls!

  38. Slurve on August 27th, 2008 8:41 pm

    Silva and Vidro are at a DEAD TIE who will be voted worst 2008 performance? TIME WILL TELL!

  39. mln on August 27th, 2008 9:15 pm

    The Burger Chef has edged slightly ahead of Vidro! But it’s still too close to call.

    This is more exciting than Obama vs. McCain!

  40. Slurve on August 27th, 2008 9:20 pm

    Silva is pulling away from the rest of the pack from the looks of it.

  41. bavasihaspictures on August 27th, 2008 9:33 pm

    Wait, what about the F.O.?

  42. jimforjim on August 27th, 2008 9:37 pm

    I’ve been waiting for what we should do with Silva: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=360149&cc=5901

  43. TheBird on August 27th, 2008 9:47 pm

    That’s a tough one. All of the above? In the end, I went with who was most below my expectations, but even that was hard. I gave EOF a pass. And I couldn’t vote for Vidro – he would win in my book for most mis-cast player, but isn’t that far off my expectations. So in the battle of which of the MOR(*) pitchers has sucked the most so far, I chose Batista because I’d expected him to be steadier.

    (*) MOR, as in BOR anywhere else.

  44. Relyt on August 27th, 2008 10:05 pm

    Gotta go with Batista. 200 baserunners in 106.3 innings? 0.90 K/BB ratio? 66 ERA+? Terrible.

  45. BigB on August 27th, 2008 10:11 pm

    Had to vote for Vidro, although Batista was a very appealing candidate as well

  46. G-Man on August 27th, 2008 10:35 pm

    Hmm, are rate stats more important here, or counting stats? Or are those noncounting stats?

    I finally went with Vidro, based on his maximizing his suckitude by eating up however many hundreds of AB’s when there were many better alternatives for his lineup spot (many, due to the low bar he set). And he was hitting cleanup!

  47. Gihyou on August 27th, 2008 10:36 pm

    It really came down to Vidro, Silva and Batista. I can’t blame Vidro for how they used him, I don’t think he held a gun to anyone’s head and made the McLaren/Riggleman team bat him cleanup. He did suck, no question about it.

    Silva has the more onerous contract, he’s still with the team (meaning he can continue to provide his near-zero or negative value although he did help out by getting injured), and he annoyed me with the ‘no one cares, everyone’s okay with losing’ quotes that endear him to journalists.

    But Miguel was so awful that even with a rotation calling for volunteers at some points, they couldn’t use him. He had so, so many starts of less than 5 innings. He, ominously, couldn’t even really be decent in a relief role. Miguel gets the vote.

  48. Go Felix on August 27th, 2008 10:42 pm

    Silva Silva Silva. Batista comes in a close second but Silva takes the cake, no pun intended.

  49. PADJ on August 27th, 2008 10:50 pm

    Kenji: seems like he forgot which end of the bat to hang on to, but at least he played a defensive position in some halfway meaningful manner.
    Batista: E for effort in this category, but others are worse.
    Silva: yeesh. He isn’t a great pitcher…but he isn’t THIS bad, right? You have to work at it to achieve stats as bad as his.
    O’Flaherty: who? ;-)

    In the end: Vidro. Gotta be Vidro. And not because he batted clean up or kept showing up in lineups when he should have been off the team (those are management decisions). You can sum the vote up for Turbo in a short phrase: WORST DH IN THE LEAGUE.

  50. CecilFielderRules on August 27th, 2008 11:01 pm

    #13 – I didn’t vote for Silva, but I completely agree with that comment. Vidro was a horrible, negative value, waste-of-space DH, but I never actually disliked him (just his performance). Same goes for Batista. Like you, I am trying to think of any Mariner, from any season, that I like less than Carlos Silva. Nobody comes to mind.

    Players say and do stupid things all the time, so I’m not sure why I found Silva’s antics so particularly sickening. It’s something that we’ll need to get over, because (barring a miracle trade) he’ll be running out there every 5th day for the next few years.

  51. jordan on August 27th, 2008 11:02 pm

    I voted Batista. I didn’t watch games when he pitched.

  52. JMHawkins on August 27th, 2008 11:05 pm

    Dylan, that was awesome.

    I went with Batista on gut feeling, but then thought “hey, use WPA/LI to decide it.” While I’m off gathering the numbers, I check here and see you’ve already done it. Bravo!

    Yes, Batista. Put another way, he’s appeared in 35 games so far. He’s had a positive WPA in 9 of them, and 5 of those were in relief (nice of him, but he’s paid to be a starter. Not even Proven Closers get his kind of money). Of his 20 starts, 4 – four! – have had positive WPA. In half of them, his WPA was -20% or worse. HoRam last year had 20 starts, and posted 6 with postive WPA. So Batista < HoRam.

  53. PADJ on August 27th, 2008 11:10 pm

    #50 – “Players say and do stupid things all the time, so I’m not sure why I found Silva’s antics so particularly sickening.”

    4 years/$48M with a $5M signing bonus and a suite when on the road would do a nice job of magnifying the sickening for me.

  54. earinc on August 28th, 2008 12:03 am

    I’ve read all of the debates and just have to ask: Do I really have to pick just one?

  55. vj on August 28th, 2008 12:58 am

    Results after 1660 votes:
    Silva 33%
    Batista 13%

    A comparison of their respective FIP:
    Silva: 4.59
    Batista: 5.96

    I disagree with the result of the poll for those two players. Silva has pitched about as well as can be expected (roughly league average) while Batista has plainly sucked.

  56. Rumpelstiltskin on August 28th, 2008 1:45 am

    Where’s the love for Batista? His numbers are far worse than Silva’s. I didn’t know that was possible…

  57. Teej on August 28th, 2008 1:50 am

    Seeing that the question was “worst performance” — with no mention of it being relative to contract or expectations — I find it amazing that Batista is only at 13 percent. He’s been far worse than Silva.

  58. Omerta on August 28th, 2008 1:59 am

    That was very difficult…and add on top all of the write-in possibilities (Sexson, Wilkerson, Betancourt, the injury twins Bedard and Putz)…

    It was between Batista and Silva. I went with Silva. For what he is being paid, and what he was expected to be able to contribute…he deserves the vote more then a 38 year old, who at least can pretend like age has something to do with his abysmal collapse.

  59. DKCecil on August 28th, 2008 2:07 am

    I don’t know if the contract question should matter much between Silva and Batista, seeing as Miguel isn’t exactly making chicken scratch this year. Silva’s been dreadful, but Batista has been nothing but a drain on the bullpen and opponent’s legs as they keep getting to jog to first base.

  60. Librocrat on August 28th, 2008 3:24 am

    For vj @55

    Silva has pitched worse than his FIP suggests. He has a LD rate of 22.5%, which is actually higher than his disastrous 2006 year. He simply has not given up as many home runs, which is why his FIP shows him pitching league average, but a 22.5% LD rate for a no-longer-ground-ball-pitcher is not good. Much worse than “average” or “mediocre.” That said, Batista has been worse, but let’s not pretend that Silva has been pitching as advertised. Graham’s tRA is a better stat overall, but it is especially better for people like Silva that are pitching worse than their FIP suggests.

    That said, Batista is still probably the worst, followed by Johjima and Betancourt.

  61. cdowley on August 28th, 2008 4:37 am

    This was incredibly difficult, but in the end I went for Batista. Silva I honestly didn’t expect much out of (though he hasn’t even given that), but Miguel has gone from serviceable to “Holy God I never want to see him on the mound ever again, it’s just too painful to watch.”

  62. Mere Tantalisers on August 28th, 2008 4:52 am

    Joh, for being the biggest disappointment. We knew the other guys could suck. Well, EOF I thought would be good but relievers have bad seasons so there’s that.

  63. Jar on August 28th, 2008 5:55 am

    I picked Johjima cause he is the only one I didn’t expect to suck atleast a little.

  64. smb on August 28th, 2008 7:52 am

    Tuuurrrrrrbooooooooooo! The Designated Hitter who was a Professional Hitter who couldn’t manage to hit much of anything.

  65. bakomariner on August 28th, 2008 8:01 am

    By far Vidro. I’ve been watching the team since the late 80s…I can honestly say Jose Vidro is my least favorite player to EVER wear an Ms uniform…I’ve never yelled at the tv over another player as much as I did when that waste of oxygen was batting clean-up and he’d hit into the double play…I’m getting worked up thinking abou it right now!

  66. CCW on August 28th, 2008 8:08 am

    I don’t see how contracts or expectations have anything to do with it. I guess it’s just a matter of interpreting the question. Turbo was clearly the Least Valuable Player, for what that’s worth.

  67. Paul B on August 28th, 2008 8:15 am

    I think it says a lot about the lack of smarts in team leadership that the first half season starting DH and starting firstbaseman, both of whom were right in the middle of the lineup day after stinking day, are both out of baseball in the second half of the season.

  68. Gomez on August 28th, 2008 8:24 am

    Silva at least provided a decent start or three out of the gate before he started sucking and threatening teammates. Vidro, aside from sporadic WTF moments of productivity, was a black hole from wire to wire.

  69. smb on August 28th, 2008 8:46 am

    “Silva at least provided a decent start or three out of the gate before he started sucking and threatening teammates.”

    Greatest qualifying statement ever.

  70. The Ghost of Spike Owen on August 28th, 2008 8:54 am

    Without Richie the poll lacks legitimacy.

  71. smb on August 28th, 2008 9:00 am

    I disagree, I think it makes it more interesting. Like asking who is the best golfer in the world, but excluding Tiger Woods. Okay, so maybe there should be an explicit Richie exclusion clause below the radio buttons.

    We USSM readers really excel at turning even the simplest things into a big orgy of semantics, eh?

  72. JMHawkins on August 28th, 2008 9:01 am

    I think it says a lot about the lack of smarts in team leadership that the first half season starting DH and starting firstbaseman, both of whom were right in the middle of the lineup day after stinking day, are both out of baseball in the second half of the season.

    And it says even more about the lack of smarts that there wasn’t a Plan B for either one of them. Even after Sexson’s disasterous second half last year, the M’s broke ST without anyone to take his place if he didn’t rebound. Or was that Mike Morse? At least there are guys to plug in for Batista and Silva.

  73. PositivePaul on August 28th, 2008 9:07 am

    My order:

    Yuni
    Batista
    Joh
    Vidro
    Sexson
    Silva
    EOF

    I’m with Graham — how can Yuni NOT be on this list???

  74. DMZ on August 28th, 2008 9:11 am

    “Without Richie the poll lacks legitimacy.”

    Yes, because if there’s one thing online polls have, it’s legitimacy.

  75. notanangrygradstudent on August 28th, 2008 10:05 am

    To everyone who voted for Vidro: Johjima’s VORP is a team-worst -11.4. Granted, some of that is probably due to the fact that Kenji is still being allowed to play, and Vidro isn’t. But consider also that Johjima, unlike Vidro, was pretty much a complete surprise. His four-year contract extension was nuts for a catcher at his age, but he had a VORP of 22 last year, and 24 the year before that. He is already 20 runs below his 50% PECOTA. We all pretty much knew that Vidro was headed in this direction, even if Bavasi apparently did not. But Johjima? He is underperforming his 10th percentile VORP. His suckage with the bat almost defies description, and I actually like the guy. And I freely admit that his defensse compensates a lot for his bat. His WARP-3 is actually positive (1.9).

    But his performance has still probably been the most damaging on the team, because management could not have expected it.

  76. Broadcast James on August 28th, 2008 10:07 am

    I admit I voted for Eric O’Flaherty…

    I figured (from the players perspective), how could it have been much worse then coming off a good season, getting totally blown up, everyone thinks you suck, and you end up in Tacoma for the final 5 1/2 months of the season.

    Man that would be the worst… You just gotta feel for the guy, at least the other guys are still in the league.

    Runners up: Kenji, Batista.

    Vidro aught to know he’s on borrowed time, and should be simply enjoying the fact that he gets to continue to play baseball professionally.

  77. Red Apple on August 28th, 2008 10:36 am

    I was torn between Batista and Silva — on one hand, Silva has allowed an amazing number of hits per innings pitched, but then I realized how awful the defense behind him is. Batista has more walks than strikeouts…73 in 106 innings! Ugh. So Batista won my “ugh” vote.

    Kenji has defensive value at catcher, Vidro didn’t have the worst numbers ever (although for a DH, pretty abyssmal)…and O’Flaherty was a result of a small sample size.

  78. smb on August 28th, 2008 10:40 am

    I still vote for the guy who had ONE job and couldn’t come close to doing it, an albatross in the cleanup spot.

    “But (Joh’s) performance has still probably been the most damaging on the team, because management could not have expected it.”

    Could not have expected it based on what? Past performance being a guarantee of future returns? Competitive advantage comes from the ability to make the proper adjustments as the season unfolds more so than from accurately predicting what everyone’s output will be and then riding your predictions to the bottom of the sea, don’t you think?

    Joh wasn’t hitting and neither was Turbo, but Turbo was starting almost every game while at least Burke was spelling Joh and getting his non-bat out of the lineup on semi-regular occasion. At this point Joh only has 6 more at-bats than Vidro did before he was DFA’d, and his offensive numbers are only marginally worse. Vidro for Captain Suck 2008.

  79. Swungonandbelted on August 28th, 2008 10:58 am

    4-14, $2,125,000 per win (if he doesn’t win another game this year, and that’s a better than even possibility) and then add in the losing starts where he didn’t make it through the 4th… Silva gets my vote

  80. TumwaterMike on August 28th, 2008 11:08 am

    I chose Johjima because he was on the verge of being an all-star last year and now has worked himself into a back-up role. I do have a question. Isn’t Burke the best defensive cather we have? What do you think will happen to him in the off-season?

  81. heyoka on August 28th, 2008 11:47 am

    I used hope as my evaluation basis….

    Silva sucked out my hope.

    -Batista gave me hope that he’s done as a starter but could still be useful as one of the most overpaid relievers in history.
    -Joh had a bad year, but so did Roy Campanella imbetween his MVP years so I chalk it up to being a catcher, and I don’t expect much of catchers anyway.
    -EOF was monumentally disappointing, but how much does 1 reliever really affect a team? (Ayala not withstanding.)
    -Vidro was a black hole and perhaps the worst DH the M’s will ever see, but he was still (sadly) one of the better hitters available. I blame him more on the managers. He should’ve batted in the 7-9 hole area prior to his release. And, at least he was released….hope for a new DH is preserved.

    Silva doesn’t have the stuff to move to the bullpen like Batista could. And he was the third crappy contract the M’s committed to the rotation, thereby destroying more hope than any of the other shitty performances on this list combined.

  82. notanangrygradstudent on August 28th, 2008 11:53 am

    Could not have expected it based on what? Past performance being a guarantee of future returns?

    Nobody said anything about a guarantee, as you well know, and it takes a full season’s worth of date to determine that someone has fallen off a cliff. Joh was well above average in the other years he played. Competitive advantage comes from taking the right risks, and Johjima for this season was one of those. Not so much for next year, which is why you don’t give a catcher on the wrong side of 30 a four-year deal. But ANYONE should have given Joh the benefit of the doubt until at LEAST the all-star break this year. It is doubly painful since management has been so bad at evaluating other players. Johjima was a no-brainer they couldn’t help but get right, and still it went wrong.

    Which isn’t to say Vidro was a bad choice for worst, of course. As many people have said: “6. All of the above” or “7. All of the above, plus Yuni, Sexson, and your favorite other sucky player”. There’s no lack of choices on this club.

  83. Evan on August 28th, 2008 1:53 pm

    I’m surprised. I think Batista’s clearly been worse than Silva and Kenji.

    It’s a fairly narrow line between Batista and Vidro, though. Either of those could credibly be said to be the worst.

  84. Steve T on August 28th, 2008 2:24 pm

    I don’t understand how Silva is leading. Batista has been quite the worse pitcher. I still think Vidro’s the best answer; I just wish it was possible to vote for “all of them”.

  85. great gonzalez on August 28th, 2008 2:54 pm

    (imo)

    Biggest disappointment: Johjima
    Worst performance: Vidro

  86. A Series of Tubes on August 28th, 2008 3:01 pm

    Silva silva silva. A million times Silva.

    OK I almost voted Vidro, but at least he had a “hot streak” (didn’t completely suck) before we released him. And the fact that we actually released him gave him a couple brownie points.

  87. Evan on August 28th, 2008 3:16 pm

    Silva’s worse for the team (because he makes a ton of money and we have him forever), but Batista’s clearly performed worse this season.

    Silva’s tRA+ is 84
    Batista’s tRA+ is 64

  88. Dylan S on August 28th, 2008 3:23 pm

    #52 Glad you liked it. Here are the rest of the M’s regulars (starters and position players).

    Player Games WPA/LI *WPA/LI*

    Felix 25 +1.45 +1.74
    Wash 26 -0.25 -0.29
    Bedard 15 +0.41 +0.82

    Player PA WPA/LI *WPA/LI* Position Defense Total

    Raul 581 +1.41 +1.69 +0 -1.5 +0.19
    Lopez 568 -0.13 -0.16 +0.5 -0.5 -0.16
    Ichiro 616 +0.03 +0.03 +1.0 +0.5 +1.53
    Beltre 556 -0.53 -0.67 +0.5 +0.5 +0.33

    To sum up both posts:

    Your 2008 Mariners

    Stars

    Felix +1.74 wins above average
    Ichiro +1.53

    Average Players

    Bedard +0.82
    Beltre +0.33
    Raul +0.19
    Lopez -0.16
    Washburn -0.29

    Below Average

    Silva -1.64

    Below Replacement Level

    Kenji -3.05
    Yunni -3.20
    Vidro -3.97
    Sexson -4.56
    Batista -4.61

    Remember this is extrapolating everyone out to a full season.

  89. Sinking Away on August 28th, 2008 9:55 pm

    Of course it was Vidro for me.

  90. LefebvreBelebvre on August 30th, 2008 10:30 am

    I’m shocked that Putz is not on this list… anywhere.

    Wait, no I’m not.

    The denial continues…

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