Congratulations Ichiro & Beltre
Conor · November 6, 2008 at 2:19 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Ichiro and Beltre won Gold Gloves today…but so did Michael Young, so take them for what they’re worth.
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24 Responses to “Congratulations Ichiro & Beltre”
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No big surprise there…
Well maybe Michael Young. I can’t say I’ve seen him much though.
Michael Young?
That’s a bloody joke.
Isn’t he the Adam Dunn of shortstops?
I propose that they rename these the “Derek Jeter Gloves for Supposed Defensive Prowess; awarded by a bunch of hacks who only ever remember players for what they do with the bat”?
Young was -7 this year. For comparison’s sake, Jeter was -12 and Betancourt was a ghastly -19.
This is pretty awesome, though. When the Blue Jays made the trade for Scott Rolen, I thought for sure the writers would instantly anoint him the new AL Gold Glover before he even played a game.
Huzzah for Beltre!
Congrats to Ichi and AB! While I agree that Gold Gloves are sometimes overrated (see Raphael Palmiero’s “edging out” of David Segui for the GG at 1B in 1998), the fact that Adrian won another one this year in spite of playing the whole season with a messed-up hand is quite an accomplishment.
I have a suggestion I’d like to see tried – completely reverse the current system, where managers and coaches don’t get to vote on their own players whom they see every day. Instead, have them vote only on their own players. Give them each 100 points to distribute on their roster based on how valuable they think each player’s defense is. Then see which players get the most points at each position.
Nate McLouth is a pretty egregious choice, too. Dewan’s +/- hates him, UZR hates him, RZR has him as the worst CF in the NL, etc.
But he only had one error, so I guess he’s awesome.
Next season, McLouth plans to stand in a single spot regardless of where any ball is hit, immobile, catching only those fly balls hit directly at him. He will sport a 1.000 fielding percentage and easily win his second consecutive Gold Glove.
No serious beef with Mussina getting it this year, but Felix is going to have to start winning them soon!
Recognizing the undeniable ability of two athletes we’re lucky (if however temporarily) to claim as our own is a nice (if however temporary) respite in the midst of all of the doom & gloom surrounding us here in what Sports Illustrated’s Chris Ballard is describing as “Sportspocalypse Now”
(…in a “Point After” article that includes quotes from a certain David Cameron, by the way. Nice!)
Both Ichiro and Beltre ranked quite high on the fielding bible awards too – Beltre, of course, won. It certainly is nice to see them get recognition from a more popularly recognized source for their actual achievements – Michael Young aside.
That would reward players with crappy teammates.
If my entire team except for my 2B plays defense like Yuni and Raul, then that 2B is going to walk away with the award because he’ll get ALL the points, even though he might just be average.
It fails for the same reason that WIn Shares fails.
It’s truly remarkable that the Mariners, who were an abysmal defensive club, placed two players with Gold Gloves.
It only reminds us is that the rest of the club was astonishingly poor defensively.
Early in the season, when Yuni, Lopez and Sexson, were together, it might have been the worst three-quarters of an infield I’ve ever seen in the major leagues.
One can only hope and pary that Mr. Z understands the importance of defense. As many of you have posted regularly the last several years, Bill Bavasi vastly underrated the importance of defense.
Speaking of which, rather than pursue Griffey, how about if one of Mr. Z’s first acts is to also pry Cameron away from the Brewers? Let us not forget that When Bavasi came on board, Cameron slipped away.
For all I know, such a deal would be impossible due to his current contrect, etc., but bringing back Cameron would be a great sign to fans that the new man understands the importance of defense. Heck, it would also be a great sign to some of the bedraggled pitchers who have gotten little help behind them the last few seasons.
It fails for the same reason that Win Shares fails.
I suppose it would. Although Win Shares at least has the aspect of varying the size of the pool based on merit.
Well… if you believe that Win Shares is correctly varying the size of the pool based on merit, yeah.
I can’t disagree with too much on the list. Cases could be made for Youkilis at 1B and a few outfielders, namely Markakis. I do have a question, though. Why don’t they break down the outfielders as LF, CF, RF instead of lumping them all together as just OF?
Beltre definitely deserved it. Ichiro? Meh. I don’t think he had a great year defensively.
what I find hard to believe is that it has been eight years since Ichiro arrived.
because that might imply they were legitimate awards?
Michael Young led the league in RZR and is close to 2nd on “out of zone” plays (according to Hardball Times). Of course, they have Jeter in 2nd in RZR. So if Young and Jeter are not good fielders (I would completely agree about Jeter), then RZR is basically crap I guess. And we’ve been told on here that BP’s defensive stats are crap.
Anyone know which defensive stats we should be using then (and why)? Because it’s only been a couple years since statistical guys were quoting RZR or BP’s stuff on defense.
We really should put a link at the top of the page on how to evaluate defense. Oh, wait…
Thanks for the link Conor. I forgot that was up there. According to PMR, the only touted rankings from USSM’s article that I could actually find for 2008, Michael Young was a pretty average SS. Bobby Crosby and Jason Bartlett had clearly better seasons (I thought Bartlett had incredible range during the World Series, FWIW). Peralta and Cabrera were about even. Jeter was a little behind. Yuni and Renteria were pulling up the rear among AL SS’s eligible.
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/cat_probabilistic_model_of_range.php
Of course, who knows if the PMR system is accurate, or the right one to look at, but yeah, they don’t love Michael Young like RZR does.
it has been highly entertaining (once you get past the many WTFs) to read the various articles and bloggings about this years voting — from Neyer and Baker, not to mention Dave
Well… if you believe that Win Shares is correctly varying the size of the pool based on merit, yeah.
Okay, I didn’t mean to be making a case for Win Shares, just acknowledging that it was slightly better designed than my idea.