M’s sign Chris Shelton
Dave · December 8, 2008 at 8:07 am · Filed Under Mariners
Seriously, I think Jack Z understands how to build a pretty sweet 1B platoon for no money. The M’s have inked Chris Shelton, and he now becomes the frontrunner to be Branyan’s platoon partner at first base. That should be a productive duo for basically $2 million bucks.
Go Jack Go.
Does Shelton also fit the bill as nominal, in the event of serious emergency, hope it never actually happens, catcher? He would at least know how to put the gear on.
OMG I love Shelton! Holy Crap! GO Z!!!
6 games, 16 total innings as a C for Detroit in 2004.
He also played C in 66 Minor league games.
25 in A in 2002
28 in A+ in 2003
10 in AA in 2003
3 in AAA in 2005
Right… you wouldn’t want to actually go there. It would only be in a case where you had Kenji behind the plate and Clement at DH, and Kenji had to leave the game. Unlikely that it would happen, and it would be a toss-up whether it would be better to let Shelton catch or to just give up the DH for the rest of the game. Regardless, it will be hard to justify spending a roster spot on a guy like Burke to be your 3rd catcher, when you’re spending so many spots on platoons already.
Neither guy has hit lefties in the majors though. I’m not sure how effective platooning those two at first would be…
How fun is this to watch Z put together a payroll-efficient roster? Billy Beane can’t be happy at his new GM counterpart in Seattle.
It’s going to be an interesting winter watching everything take shape, especially when we get to the more significant moves that are certainly coming…
Over his MLB career, Shelton has reverse platoon splits:
735 OPS vs. LHP (268 ABs)
838 OPS vs. RHP (636 ABs)
His playing time has been so erratic, it’s tough to really know what to expect from him, though. No doubt it’s a great flier to take… all upside, no risk.
There’s no reason to think that Shelton has a true talent reverse platoon split. His major league career vs lefties totals 300 PA. Ignore it.
Terry’s right that Shelton’s history doesn’t demonstrate a tremendous platoon split, but Branyan’s does. Shelton hits lefties about as well as he does righthanded pitching though. The nice thing about Shelton is, recognizing the limited evidence we have, he does not appear to be a butcher at first base – he may even be slightly better than average. He seems likely, when he is on the field, to improve the defense – particularly with respect to Sexson and the rest of the pretenders who have played there over the last several years.
His reverse platoon split is odd, and his minor league splits are about as dramatic, but in the opposite direction.
I recall reading an article – unfortunately, I can’t find it right now – which concluded that true reverse platoon splits are quite rare. And there’s nothing particularly unusual about Shelton’s approach at the plate that would lead one to believe he would be an exception. Z probably knows all of this, which is just another feather in his cap. I can imagine Bavasi saying, “Look how he hit lefties in 2008 – we can’t platoon him.”
Is Shelton actually good enough to beat Mike Morse out for a roster spot? Morse definitely brings more versatility and it doesn’t appear that Shelton holds that much of an advantage at the dish. Even if he isn’t, I agree that it is a good move just to add depth.
Do you know if this was a major or minor league deal?
Is Shelton actually good enough to beat Mike Morse out for a roster spot?
Chris Shelton is a better player than Morse is, so sure.
Is Mike Morse good enough to have a roster spot????
Minor-league deal.
Even if Shelton doesn’t end up with the M’s on opening day it’ll be nice to have him waiting in AAA. I’m loving how fast Zduriencik is acting. It’s almost as if he has a plan…
The joy that these small, simple moves are eliciting from the M’s blogosphere really goes to show you how terrible things have been recently.
Marcels isn’t excited about Shelton and no one has even told the monkey that Shelton will be a righty in Safeco yet.
We should be happy about having a FO that seems to understand and embrace ideas like platooning and not paying a lot for that muffler but Branyan/Shelton hopefully aren’t the endgame of acting fast on “the plan”.
I like that, according to ESPN at least, Shelton’s middle name is Bob. Not Robert, but Bob. Nice.
Minor league deal…I like the move even more now. The M’s still have those roster spots open.
Seriously, what grade has Z earned so far as a GM? A? A+? A++? He’s like Bizarro Bavasi.
Wait, so we got a serviceable 1b platoon for just $2 million or so? It didn’t cost us Shin Soo Choo or Adsrubel Caberera for a platoon DH?
If Shelton can play catcher that is pretty cool as well, since then we can play Johjima and Clement at the same time.
Marcel projects a 2009 .328 wOBA but Bill James has him at .369 wOBA. So… go Bill James.
Before we get too excited, let’s not forget that Shelton was given this very same role last year on Opening Day for the Rangers. And it was pretty much a disaster.
Bill Swartz is covering the winter metings for KIRO, and the first thing he did was talk to Bavasi.
Man, I hope KIRO gets off their collective asses soon and finally hires Drayer.
Sure, but you have to be excited that Jack Z. is actually trying to piece together a serviceable platoon for low money, right? At least he’s not taking a huge flyer on some washed-up veteran that would demand triple or even quadruple of what the potential platoon of Branyan/Shelton is going to cost.
well, no. last year he was DFAd in ST (they kept Broussard), went to AAA, and was recalled at the end of April when they dumped Botts.
Also, in 761 PA’s for Detroit in ‘05/’06, Shelton put up a combined line of .286/.350/.488 with 34 HR’s and ~100 RBI. That’s similar production to what Sexson put up in ‘05 and ‘06. Take it for what it’s worth, as it wasn’t a full season.
Dave or Derek,
How reliable do you think the above info is? Could we look forward to that sort of production?
Career minor league splits:
vs. LHP: .300/.413/.574
vs. RHP: .297/.387/.459
But oddly, that’s only 230 career ABs vs. LHPs. So we really don’t know if he’s more effective against LHPs.
Good low-risk move, though.
Sure, but you have to be excited that Jack Z. is actually trying to piece together a serviceable platoon for low money, right? At least he’s not taking a huge flyer on some washed-up veteran that would demand triple or even quadruple of what the potential platoon of Branyan/Shelton is going to cost.
Or trade away half to farm to get them.
This is the analog to Bavasi’s small, but stupid moves. Time and again, when Bavasi would do something stupid we would say:
“This isn’t really a big deal on its own, but it is representative of the organization’s flawed approach.”
By contrast, we can now say:
“This isn’t really a big deal on its own, but it is representative of the organization’s new and improved approach.”
It really does feel good.
The key is having someone who can face lefthanded starters and pinch hit for Branyan if they bring in a LOOGY. Since Branyan can’t hit lefties for anything, what matters is not whether Shelton has a great split in favor of facing lefties, but that he can hit them at all.
Sorry but I can’t get too excited about a guy who probably won’t see a major league game unless injuries provide that opportunity.
I understand it’s nice to pick guys up on the cheap like this but it’s not how I’ll judge Jack Z’s offseason.
Of course it’s not how we’ll judge his offseason, but at this point it’s a good (or at least so far the only) way to judge his philosophy. And that gives us hope. Which, with the days short and the clouds low and nothing good to look back on, is about all we can ask.
I find these moves very refreshing. It reminds me of the days when we couldn’t sign the Texeria-types and Sexson-types (because our money was tied up with Edgar, Junior, Randy, Buhner, Wilson), so we looked around and found Luis Sojo and Rich Amaral and Paul Sorrento and Ted Power and other nameless, cheap, perfectly serviceable players to fill in around the high-priced guys rather more high-priced guys. Of course, now these players are simply filling in around huge contracts of players who no longer are here but that is changing.
In that same small sample size he had a 29% line drive rate, walked well, and had a +.300 BABIP while somehow posting terrible results. He then destroyed AAA pitching for another small sample size worth of data.
I’m willing to take a shot. There’s no reason to assume Shelton’s skillsets have completely disappeared.
Actually, I think the bigger thing isn’t that Shelton can hit lefties, it’s that he’s shown some success against righties as well — which means that in a platoon with Branyan, if the other team goes back to a RHP on the mound, we aren’t hosed.
Dave/Derek (or someone else), what would you think would be a reasonable performance expectation from a Branyan/Shelton platoon?
Why would you think that? Are you saying the M’s are loaded with DH and 1B players?
I definitely think that Morse would be a better option on the roster than Shelton would. I think the Shelton should be on the major league roster for the one week that he gets really hot like he always does every year and then he should just play in AAA.
Not at all but I think Branyan, Clement and LaHair are all better players.
any thoughts on the other players added, “left-handed pitcher, Chris Seddon, a catcher, Luis Oliveros”?
I understand what you are saying, but first of all, there’s a decent chance that Shelton makes the roster out of spring training.
However, second of all, and the really exciting news, is that the Mariners are picking up talent on the cheap instead of overpaying. Remember, in years past, we bought guys like Pokey Reese.
It’s an encouraging sign in these parts….
I don’t think much of LaHair, but I honestly haven’t seen much of him. From what I can tell by looking at stats, he doesn’t seem like much of a masher, whereas Shelton’s upside in that department appears higher.
Hopefully things will pan out and become clearer during Spring Training. As I’m sure we all know, the roster is still coming together. Questions concerning what to do with Clement still need to be answered.
Not at all but I think Branyan, Clement and LaHair are all better players.
Clement, LaHair, and Branyan are all left handed batters.
any thoughts on the other players added, “left-handed pitcher, Chris Seddon, a catcher, Luis Oliveros�
Chris Seddon went 10-9, 5.09 ERA in AAA
Luis Oliveros went .276/.329/.344 and a .672 OPS in AA & AAA for the Rainiers and West Tenn.
D’oh.
Um, BillH, are you thinking this through.
It’s alright BillH, Bavasi’s no longer our GM, we don’t have to settle for less!
Shelton/Branyan platoon is not a world beater, but an effective stop-gap, you bet.
What should I be thinking through? You know, it is possible for teams to only hit from one side of the plate at certain positions. Promoting Shelton to a platoon 1B spot in the lineup merely because he’s a RH hitter would be a stupid move if you ask me.
Shelton hit .216 in 97 ABs in a friendly hitter’s park in Texas last year. He had 7 extra base hits. Why are we so happy with this signing again? That’s right, because it was cheap and he may be serviceable if you find yourself in a bind. If you think there’s anything more to it than that, then you’re deluding yourself.
Ahh, yes, and of course we’ve never heard of small-sample-size theater and think that 97 AB can tell us all we need to know.
Well, he hit 6 home runs in a week.
Small sample size, my friend.
97 ABs is enough for the manager to determine if you deserve another 97. He was DFA’ed in June.
And this proves what, exactly? Michael Jordan was cut from his high-school basketball team in tenth grade — clearly, the guy just couldn’t play the game.
I don’t think anyone is looking at this signing as anything more than what you just said, Bill. On paper, it looks as if Jack Z. has signed two low-cost players to fill a gap until a better solution presents itself. I don’t think he signed them to platoon at 1B/DH for years to come. I mean, Shelton’s contract is a minor league deal. If Jack Z. and Don W. don’t think he’s working out during spring training, then they can keep him in the minors. No harm there. If anything, he’ll rake down there and perhaps earn himself another shot at the bigs.
I think you’re reading too much into people’s elation. I think people are just really excited that Jack is actually making somewhat beneficial moves. Instead of selling the farm for nothing, he’s taking a flyer on a low-cost player with some upside, something that Bavasi wouldn’t have done with a gun pressed to his temple.
Not just Sorrento, but David Segui too … he perhaps wasn’t the bargain that Sorrento was but he still hit serviceably and had a salary that was less than half of the M’s departed free agent Tino Martinez. So in the four years between the (relatively) big names of Tino Martinez and John Olerud, the Ms managed to do okay with relatively cheap first basemen.
If you can’t get excited about the massive change in organizational process and philosophy that these recent moves show, then I don’t know what to tell you.
LaHair’s career minor league OPS: .806
Shelton’s career minor league OPS: .919
Shelton’s the better hitter. Not even close.
(FWIW, Russ Branyan’s career minor league OPS: .917)
No, it isn’t.