Putz trade close

Dave · December 10, 2008 at 6:36 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

According to Baker, Zduriencik believes that a deal for Putz is close. That goes along with this from Ken Rosenthal:

The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West.

J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.

Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

The deal also would include one or more prospects, but it is not yet clear which players are headed where.

It’s a pretty crazy rumor with a lot of details missing. If it comes into clearer view, we’ll update the post. I will say this, though – Franklin Gutierrez is one of the very best defensive outfielders in the game (think Mike Cameron with a few less walks), and if the Mariners are really targeting him after going after Matt Joyce, it should be clear that he understands the value of good gloves in the outfield.

Update: Now the rumors have expanded to include us giving up Luis Valbuena, and apparently the Rays read the blog, realized Matt Joyce was both good and available, and are about to pick him up for Edwin Jackson. The Rays are what we absolutely should be aspiring to.

Second Update: Apparently, the M’s are going to give up Putz, Reed, and Luis Valbuena and get Gutierrez, Aaron Heilman, and Mike Carp, with various assorted pieces ending up in Cleveland and New York. It’s a remarkably interesting deal on a lot of levels. I love Gutierrez’s glove, but would have preferred Joyce as a better fit for Safeco. Heilman demanded a trade because he wants to start, and we’ve already got too many starters. And I hate giving up Valbuena, but Carp could be a legit 1B of the future. We’ll break it all down once it becomes official.

Comments

57 Responses to “Putz trade close”

  1. CCW on December 10th, 2008 6:41 pm

    The combination of (a) the sheer stupid excitement of trade rumors involving the M’s and (b) the optimism that whatever results will actually be good for the team… man, it’s nice.

  2. JI on December 10th, 2008 6:44 pm

    We could definitely do worse

  3. Five Number Ones on December 10th, 2008 6:47 pm

    Oh my god! Oh my god! I love Franklin Gutierrez! I wanted to talk about Franklin Gutierrez in the Joyce thread but I was afraid to for fear of [ot]! If we got him AND Endy Chavez it would not only be AWESOME just from a roster construction perspective, but also for the great omen for future talent evaluation.

    It’s like Dave is working behind the scenes… Dave?

    (This experience has been tainted by 10 hits from an apple-pipe)

  4. DMZ on December 10th, 2008 6:56 pm

    The issue might be if Heilman expects to start and the team thinks that they’ll have a slot to fill after they move Morrow back to the pen to replace Putz, who they’re trading…

  5. Carson on December 10th, 2008 6:56 pm

    I can’t tell you how awesome it feels to read stuff like this, after what we were drug through the past few years (especially the AJ saga).

  6. thr33niL on December 10th, 2008 6:58 pm

    This is awful.

    Gutierrez? Are you serious. I don’t give two spits how good a defender the guy is, he can’t hit to save his life. Being a right hander already struggling in year 3 in the big leagues, Safeco field is going to kill this guy. He doesn’t take a walk, he doesn’t hit for power… he is bench fodder. A defensive replacement..

    Horrible move (if true). I would have taken Joyce 1-1 for Putz over this.

  7. Dave on December 10th, 2008 6:59 pm

    I’m sorry, but if you can watch this team for the last five years and still believe that defense doesn’t matter, no one should care what you think.

  8. gwangung on December 10th, 2008 7:04 pm

    Gutierrez? Are you serious. I don’t give two spits how good a defender the guy is, he can’t hit to save his life

    Think I’d take this comment more seriously if you’d said that his atrocious bat far outweighs his defensive skills. As it is, you sound like Bill Bavasi or Chuck Armstrong.

    I’m sorry, but if you can watch this team for the last five years and still believe that defense doesn’t matter, you’re an idiot.

    Or a Mariner team executive. Wait. That’s redundant.

  9. Benne on December 10th, 2008 7:07 pm

    Yay for Gutierrez!

    Sad face for giving up Valbuena.

  10. Five Number Ones on December 10th, 2008 7:09 pm

    The phrase “two spits” really seems to identify the poster above as a think-with-your-gut baseball old-timer, but the use of “leet speak” in the handle seems to point towards a flame-war veteran keyboard jockey.

    Either way, he’s wrong about this trade, and Gutierrez is going to make whoever else closes look way better than they otherwise would.

  11. CC03 on December 10th, 2008 7:10 pm

    Would Gutierrez start in CF or RF? Any chance Jack or Wakamatsu gets Ichiro to go back to CF?

    I was sort of digging the Hermida rumors. Perhaps Jack still wants to pull that off, idk.

  12. ernier on December 10th, 2008 7:11 pm

    We need to wait this one out because Jon Heyman says it’s a 12 player trade…

  13. killer_ewok18 on December 10th, 2008 7:12 pm

    Imagine an outfield of Chavez, Gutierrez, and Ichiro!

    I think I just had a defensegasm.

  14. Jeff Nye on December 10th, 2008 7:13 pm

    Would that be two Mark Spitz?

  15. CCW on December 10th, 2008 7:14 pm

    There is nothing obvious here. How much better of a defender is Gutierrez than Reed? Is Gutierrez’s bad approach at the plate crippling to his development or might he turn into a .260 / .320 / .450 center fielder? How good is Heilman (tough to determine because his role hasn’t been adequately defined)? Is giving up Valbuena a big mistake? And finally, is Carp’s apparent development for real? Looking forward to the breakdown…

  16. wsm on December 10th, 2008 7:16 pm

    Aren’t Reed and Endy Chavez the same player?

    Would it be better if Joe Smith was the guy coming instead of Heilman? I”ve heard his name involved.

    Valbuena doesn’t seem like a guy we should be parting with, considering the dearth of middle infielders we have in the upper minors.

  17. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:21 pm

    Wow…wasn’t expecting that when I got home…sound pretty frickin’ rad…

    Some thoughts:

    Hate to see Reed go…was always hoping he’d reach his potential…even though he didn’t, he’s a nice left-handed, defensive, 4th outfielder…

    Really hate to see Valbuena go…was hoping he’d take over for one of the double-play turds…

    The guys we might be getting back are going to help the rotation sooooo much…defense, defense, defense…

    Hopefully Heilman will prompt them to dump Wash, Batista, and Silva for anything they can get…I’m talking give them away…the Brewers are on line 1…

    JJ will be sorely missed…loved that guy…

    And how about JJ setting up K-Rod? Wholly shit! Good luck coming back after the 7th…

    Still would like the Hermidia for Johnson deal too…

    Go Z Go!

  18. Teej on December 10th, 2008 7:22 pm

    And how about JJ setting up K-Rod? Wholly shit!

    That’s not a nice thing to say about JJ.

  19. killer_ewok18 on December 10th, 2008 7:27 pm

    Haha. I think he mistyped.

  20. JI on December 10th, 2008 7:28 pm

    Apparently we are receiving Endy Chavez too. Someone who loves us understands defense!

  21. Dave on December 10th, 2008 7:29 pm

    But also giving up Sean Green. This trade is crazy interesting.

  22. JI on December 10th, 2008 7:30 pm

    We get David Dellucci too. Holy Crap.

    Also, making Heilman the closer pumping up his value and then trading him seems like the way to go.

  23. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:31 pm

    Dave beat me to it…looks like we’re giving up four to get four…

    Reed, JJ, Valbuena, and Green…

    Dave, would this be a good deal?

    I’m now confused with Green thrown in there…

  24. JI on December 10th, 2008 7:31 pm

    Scratch Dellucci

  25. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:33 pm

    Whether this goes down or not, this is sooooo much fun…

    Remember when we had to contemplate Soriano for Ho-Ram?

  26. jephdood on December 10th, 2008 7:33 pm

    Yeah. Don’t like losing Green in the deal, but..

  27. JLP on December 10th, 2008 7:34 pm

    Imagine an outfield of Chavez, Gutierrez, and Ichiro!

    I think I just had a defensegasm.

    That would be a great defensive outfield. Like Dave, I’d be a little more excited if we were getting Joyce + parts from Detroit.

    Would Heilman be anything more than a middle-of-the-rotation starter? He showed control problems (5.47 BB/9), but also had a high K/9.

  28. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:39 pm

    Churchill says that Joyce is gone…maybe Z was too late and now he has to go this route…

  29. Conor on December 10th, 2008 7:40 pm

    Rosenthal says…

    Under terms of the deal, the Mets would get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners would receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They’d also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians would get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.

    This is fun!

  30. Benne on December 10th, 2008 7:40 pm

    The Tigers inexplicably traded Joyce to the Rays for Edwin Jackson. And when I say “inexplicably”, I mean “retardedly.”

  31. wsm on December 10th, 2008 7:40 pm

    Aren’t Green and Corcoran redundant for us anyway? Groundballers who can’t be trusted after the 7th?

    Making Heilman a closer should make him happy. There’s no room in the rotation until a few more trades are made.

  32. CC03 on December 10th, 2008 7:44 pm

    I think it goes…

    Mariners lose:
    Putz
    Green
    Reed
    Valbuena

    Mariners receive:
    Gutierrez
    Carp
    Chavez
    Heilman
    Minor leaguers

    Mets lose:
    Heilman
    Chavez
    Carp
    Joe Smith

    Mets receive:
    Putz
    Reed
    Sean Green

    Indians lose:
    Gutierrez
    Minor Leaguers

    Indians receive:
    Joe Smith
    Valbuena

  33. msb on December 10th, 2008 7:46 pm

    I hate it that JJ would have to take a back seat to F*&%Rod.

    I hate that Morrow might get screwed for Heilman.

    I’d like Reed to get a shot playing someplace.

    I love the idea of defense.

  34. Dave on December 10th, 2008 7:50 pm

    Right. This deal has a ton of pros and cons.

    Good: Gutierrez is a great defender, Carp could be a .300/.370/.450 first baseman by 2010, Heilman’s not much worse than Putz as a reliever.

    Bad: Valbuena gets punted, Gutierrez is RH, and Heilman wants to start, which makes Morrow as closer more likely.

  35. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:51 pm

    So the outfield would be Chavez, ICHIRO!, and Gutierrez…if we also make the rumored trade for Hermida along with WLAD, we’d have quite the outfield…good defense…platoon options…

    I like…

  36. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:53 pm

    Z will get an automatic F+ on any deal that sends Morrow back to the pen…period…

  37. CC03 on December 10th, 2008 7:54 pm

    I don’t like the idea of making Heilman a starter at the expense of Morrow. I’d like to see what Morrow has as a starter before some guy that demanded in trade in NY gets his demand on a team he hasn’t played for.

  38. Dave on December 10th, 2008 7:54 pm

    Way to be open minded.

  39. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 7:58 pm

    I would hope that Heilman would be flipped to a team that needs starters and that Morrow’s spot is safe…

  40. Typical Idiot Fan on December 10th, 2008 8:03 pm

    Holy crap. I went to dinner and come home to a dessert buffet consisting of some Vanilla Custards, No-Bake Cookies, Peppermint Brittle, and Spotted Dick.

    And I thought to myself… “well now this is new… new and interesting… I never thought I’d type this but… I think I’ll try the Spotted Dick.”

  41. CC03 on December 10th, 2008 8:05 pm

    In Baker’s latest update he doesn’t have Chavez coming to the M’s, which would seem to make sense, especially if you plan on trying to get Wlad ABs, not too mention Saunders is there as well for a potential late season call up.

  42. terry on December 10th, 2008 8:05 pm

    THIS is how you upgrade a rotation that is largely untradeable….

  43. JLP on December 10th, 2008 8:08 pm

    I’m just now sure how I feel about this yet. Carp appears to be a solid prospect, and Gutierrez is sure a great defensive pickup. But I’m just not too sure about Heilman. Very anxious to see how this plays out.

  44. Typical Idiot Fan on December 10th, 2008 8:09 pm

    Chavez would be a 4th outfielder anyway. He’s not exactly a masher and isn’t projected well either. But his defensive additions would be absurd.

    Just looking at their respective UZRs, an outfield consisting of mostly Chavez, Gutierrez, Ichiro would be a +40 to +50 run outfield. That’s a hell of a thing.

  45. terry on December 10th, 2008 8:09 pm

    How are they going to score runs though?

  46. Typical Idiot Fan on December 10th, 2008 8:11 pm

    Scoring runs or preventing runs… both are contributions, terry.

  47. banestar on December 10th, 2008 8:13 pm

    As a Mets fan, I couldn’t be freakin’ happier with this trade. Mike Carp I think has a good bit of potential (he’s the warm body in the trade I’m most disappointed about losing), but he’s been up and down in the minors…but he DEFINITELY has upside.

    Endy should be for the Mariners something very similar to what he was for the Mets, a third/fourth outfielder who plays great D and occasionally gets on base. Sure, his FanGraphs projected wOBA is a mere .308, but his defense is strong, and he runs the bases fairly well.

    I like Joe Smith, but I do wonder if he’s going to stay consistent. If nothing else, he tends to give a team a different look out of the pen.

    And, from a purely non-objective POV, I’m done with Heilman. I know it goes against all statistical analysis, but I’ve lost all faith in the guy from watching him, subjectively, for the last year.

    And for us Mets, we’re gonna be happy to have Putz, especially as an 8th inning guy, couldn’t care less about Reed (oh yay, another 4th/5th outfielder, at least he can be a defensive replacement for Tatis?), and am curious to learn more about Green.

  48. Typical Idiot Fan on December 10th, 2008 8:15 pm

    By the by, Heilman isn’t a bad pitcher. Overall, he suffered from walking too many batters (14% walk rate), but the strikeout rate (22.4%) and everything else looked “fine” (groundball rate was down from his usual norms, tho).

    I don’t think he would be a bad pickup. Between him, Rowland-Smith, and others, it’s not as if we can’t let someone compete for our fifth starter spot.

  49. Dave on December 10th, 2008 8:15 pm

    Green is Smith – groundballs, death to righties, can’t get lefties out to save his life.

  50. Sports on a Schtick on December 10th, 2008 8:15 pm

    Like most people, the prospects of Morrow returning to the pen is worrying. But we’ll see. Z has demonstrated so far that he knows what he’s doing.

  51. Typical Idiot Fan on December 10th, 2008 8:17 pm

    and am curious to learn more about Green.

    Righty killing groundball machine. Has a nice two seamer he can throw for strikes and a three-quarters -> sidearm delivered slider that really messes with right handers (think Jeff Nelson).

    Sucks against lefties.

  52. Benne on December 10th, 2008 8:19 pm

    Rosenthal makes it official.

  53. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 8:20 pm

    It’s official…

  54. terry on December 10th, 2008 8:20 pm

    Scoring runs or preventing runs… both are contributions, terry.

    Yes, but you still need to score more than you give up.

  55. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 8:21 pm

    It’s official…

    “UPDATED 11:12 p.m. — Done deal: Mets acquire Putz
    The Mets have acquired a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man is another closer from the American League West.

    J.J. Putz is headed New York in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.

    Under terms of the deal, the Mets get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle.

    From the Mets’ perspective, the deal is Heilman and Smith for Putz. Chavez and Reed are simply an exchange of backup outfielders, Smith and Green are an exchange of right-handed groundball specialists.”

  56. greymstreet on December 10th, 2008 8:23 pm

    Don’t bad things happen when we trade young infielders to the Indians?

    Maybe they want Yuni…

  57. bakomariner on December 10th, 2008 8:27 pm

    This sucks for JJ…worked his ass off to become one of the best closers in the game and now has to “set-up” K-Rod…whom we don’t know as a person, but was hated as an opponent…

    Best of luck JJ…re-sign with the Ms in 2011 for OUR run at the World Series!

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