Two Interesting Developments
Two notes from the AL today that could have a ripple effect on the M’s.
The White Sox offered Abreu $8 million on a one year deal, which probably puts him out of range for the M’s. Chicago is a great place to hit, especially in the summer, and if he’s looking to re-establish some all-star numbers and get a big payday next winter, he’s got a better chance of doing that in Chicago than in Seattle. That means the M’s would probably have to spend around ~$10 million to land Abreu, and given the available alternatives and their respective costs, that doesn’t make much sense.
However, a new, lower cost option may be opening up. The Orioles signed Ty Wigginton to a two year deal at just over $3 million per season. Wigginton best fits as a 1B/DH, but the O’s already have handed Aubrey Huff the first base job and moved Luke Scott to DH to make room for Felix Pie in left field. Scott isn’t thrilled with the idea of DH’ing, and he shouldn’t be – he’s an above average defensive corner outfielder, and his skillset makes him more valuable in the OF than being used as a bat only guy.
So, the Orioles should have some incentives to move Scott to a team that could use a lower cost, left-handed outfielder with some power and a decent glove. Like, say, the Mariners. He’s not an all-star, and at 30 years, he’s not going to get much better, but he’s a solid player who would help the M’s offense more than he would hurt their defense. At $2.5 million for 2009 (and arb eligible for 2010 and 2011), he’s a lower cost option than guys like Abreu or Swisher.
So, the Abreu option might be going away while the Luke Scott option emerges as a possibility.
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I had been mulling over Scott as a possibility for the M’s since the O’s announced that he would primarily be a DH.
What would the O’s reasonably ask for Scott? One B level pitching prospect?
Landing Luke Scott would be pretty cool, he is a cheap solid player and fits into what Z has been doing all off-season.
Plus we could do like the Astros did when they had him, and put Luke Scottwalker on the big screen and play nerdy Star Wars clips.
Any idea what it would take to land him? He has what, 2.4 mil this year, and 1 year arb after that? He’s basically a league average OF, maybe a shade better than that. Maybe Betancourt and RRS? We’d have to slide Cedeno to SS, but I’m assuming that’s why we picked him up, to give us that flexibility.
He’s under club control via arb salaries from 2009 to 2011. And no, he won’t cost Betancourt and RRS.
Any chance we can just go to the O’s, hat in hand, and ask for them to give him to us outright as an act of appreciation for our excessive generosity in the Jones-Bedard trade?
Why would the Orioles not keep Scott as Felix Pie failure insurance? Depth is never a bad thing, and he’s not exactly a burden on the budget.
Nevertheless, he’d be a great addition to the team. I like Endy Chavez much better as a 4th OFer/Scott platoon partner than as a regular.
RoninX -
Maybe they will ask for Bedard.
I was literally praying for him in the Bedard deal…bringing him in now, as long as it’s not for too much, would be awesome…
I was thinking the same thing RoninX.
I am sure they would be willing participants at the trade table, and thinking they could walk away with another one sided deal.
RoninX – nice, that’d be a dream come true, huh?
I’m going through some of the O’s minor-league rosters, and it looks to me like they could use a good, young catcher. With Adam Moore supposedly set to skyrocket through the M’s system the next couple of years, could Rob Johnson be a guy Baltimore is intrigued by?
Scott was part of the Dec-’07 trade between HOU and BAL that sent Tejada to the Orioles, but I’m having a difficult time finding much information (other than stats) on him beyond that.
He posted an .808 OPS in 2008 in 475 ABs, and had a respectable .336 OBP with some fair-to-middlin’ LF/DH power numbers (23 dingers, 54 XBH, .472 SLG), and he did it in a pretty average lineup. His defense (.990 FPC in LF) seems acceptable, too. The question, though, is whether or not he’s a necessary piece for the immediate future.
Umm, rmac — have you really not noticed that the best prospect in baseball is a young catcher for the O’s named Matt Wieters?
And Mustard, I’m sure they wouldn’t be thinking any such thing. They know as well as everyone else that it’s a different M’s FO, with a different set of concerns.
Luke Scott would be sweet. Should we hold out any hope for Nick Swisher or has that ship sailed?
I didnt say the results would be the same, I said they would be willing participants based on previous experience. Of course our FO now knows what it is doing, this time around.
Scott wouldn;t be bad, and we’d likely get him for a lot less than Delmon Young. The only thing that would suck about this deal is (unless we eat a lot of $$$), we’re not moving any big contracts in the deal. No way Balt is taking on Silva or Washburn. But still, for the right price, could still be worth doing.
Ancient Mariner,
Matt Weiters has one year of pro ball under his belt: he split time between A+ and AA in 2008. I sincerely doubt the Orioles are banking on him being the next Ivan Rodriguez without so much as another solid prospect in the bank, which I honestly could not find.
Again, from what I found, it looks like Baltimore could use another good, young catching prospect. Johnson fits that mold, and I see no reason Doc-Z would give up Moore in a trade for another young-ish outfielder (although Luke Scott IS almost 30 years old).
This is actually wrong. Wieters is universally seen as the top prospect in the game. He is believed to one of the best catchers in baseball right now. So, catcher is probably not super high on their list.
Mustard, they don’t have any previous experience with this FO, and they know it. They aren’t going to be setting their expectations for dealing with Zduriencik based on what Bavasi did.
rmac, that’s pretty much exactly what the Orioles are banking on (except that “Joe Mauer with more power” or “next Johnny Bench” would be more accurate). They’ve signed Gregg Zaun as a one-year stopgap so they don’t have a gaping void, but they dealt Ramon Hernandez and his bigger contract to clear the slot for Wieters; their basic plan is to let him take the job whenever he’s ready, then sit back and not worry about the position for the next 10-15 years while he racks up All-Star appearances and MVP votes. No, they’re not all that likely to be interested in Rob Johnson.
As for Luke Scott, I’ve been thinking about him ever since Dave put that piece up on FanGraphs; nice of the O’s to go and make him completely dispensable. Go get him, Jack.
Matt Wieters is the best position player prospect to come around since A-Rod. He might be the most valuable commodity in baseball right now. He’s an absolute monster, and he’ll be in Baltimore by May.
They have zero need for young catching. None.
rmac1973 – you are crazy. Weiters is the best offensive catching prospect since Piazza and the best defensive catching prospect (with enough bat to start in the majors) since Mauer. Dude is basically #1 on every prospect list. Computer projections love him. Scouts love him. Everyone loves him. Unless he blows out a knee, the O’s do not need another catching prospect for the next 6-7 years. Don’t be silly.
I’ve beat the Luke Scott drum in a few other posts on this site. I think he’s a good option, but he does have a noticable platoon split. While he isn’t truly horrendous against LHP (just below average), it would be nice to have a RH caddy. Don’t know that I’d go with a strict platoon, but a RH OF who could start at least once a week for Scott.
This probably isn’t true. He’s a Boras client so I don’t think he’s sticking in Baltimore for his entire career. He’ll be moving due north when free agency comes up after 2015.
mymrbig, Baltimore has plenty of money, and a plenty big media market. Doing whatever it takes to keep Wieters (assuming no major injury) is definitely part of their plan.
I see a lot of O’s games here on the East Coast and I think Scott would be a great addition. He plays hard and fans love him.
I don’t know if the O’s would be willing to part with him all that easily, though. Angleos has a tendency to cling to guys that he likes (regardless of their performance) and he seems to like Scott.
But, my, the O’s are having a very good off-season.
If Wieters turns into half the player most people think he will be, he’ll still be better than any catcher we could send over in a trade.
I say offer Baltimore Washburn + $5 mil in cash for Luke Scott. Baltimore seems to have some open spots in their rotation and Washburn on a 1 year, $5 mil deal is not bad for them at all.
For the M’s, it would clear $5 mil of Washburn and while they would still be on the hook for half the contract, it would turn a negative in Washburn in to a positive in Scott, a lefty bat with some pop and solid OF defense. Also, Scott is under control for 2 more years after this so the trade would have long-term benefits.
It would be great to have someone take all of Washburn’s deal and if the M’s can do that great but if not, maybe eating half of the contract and getting a useful player back would be the ticket.
Baltimore probably will want someone who doesn’t have to be placed on the 40-man roster right away — they just had to clear a spot for Hill and will have to do so again for Wigginton, and there’s also talk of them being in on Looper if the price falls enough.
What the Orioles really could use are infield prospects. The organization looks like it’s in good shape in the outfield and behind the plate for the long term, and they have enough arms that I doubt anyone Seattle would be willing to offer would cause Andy MacPhail to jump. Had they not just signed Izturis to play short, I would have thought that Betancourt would have been attractive to them, but they don’t have much in the pipeline anywhere in the infield.
ohhhhh. you mean this Matt.
I think the only way they need catching is if Zaun’s legs fall off this spring.
[nobody is interested in giving you the fight you're obviously looking to pick]
There is zero chance that the Orioles are looking to acquire another catcher. The team focused on acquiring a Greg Zaun-type talent to keep Wieters seat warm for a month or so until he is called up, but the chances of them dealing anything of value for a backup there are 0.0%.
The Baltimore-Washington area in general may be a nice place to look for surplus outfielders, as Washington will probably be looking to move Austin Kearns at some point. Also, if Baltimore chooses to hang onto Scott, Nolan Reimold may be available — he’s arguably their best outfield prospect and had a nice year in AA, but it doesn’t seem like the current regime there values him very much.
Why would the O’s ask for Rob Johnson when they have other and more pressing needs? Sure it would be nice if the M’s could convine the O’s that they really need Johnson, but that will probably not happen.
Now if the M’s were to explore potential trade scenarios with the Yanks, I would assume that NY would inquire about one of Johnson, Clement, or Moore.
A 1-2 punch… at catcher!
Thanks, bermanator, for an honest and open response without any sarcasm or vitriol to my straightforward question, which was whether or not the O’s would be interested in Rob Johnson, or any other catcher for that matter.
As I clearly stated, I couldn’t find much info in Weiters or any of the O’s other catching prospects. Their acquisition of Zaun led me to think that he was viewed as a stopgap, which he apparently is.
Amazing how a simple answer to a legitimate question can solve things, huh?
You guys are right. There’s no way the Orioles would be interested in having a solid backup plan in place in the impossible case that Weiters either falters or suffers an injury.
It’s not that there’s zero value in having catching depth. It’s that it’s the absolute last area where Baltimore needs help. Trading something of value for a backup catcher when your team is starved for talent in other areas makes no sense.
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There’s no way the Orioles would be interested in having a solid backup plan in place in the impossible case that Weiters either falters or suffers an injury.
Sure, but why replace someone on your roster who’s redundant with another person on your roster who’s redundant, especially when the M’s have a boatload of back-of-rotation starting pitchers (Washburn, RRS, Olson, Feierabend, Vargas), interesting OF’ers like Saunders or Halman, and the occasional Tui who might be interesting?
I’d love the idea of shipping out Washburn + 5 million in cash for Scott myself. Boom, LH bat problem solved, minimal impact on the rotation, keeps the salaries in line.
Tek & Teej,
Thanks.
I don’t think it’s a question of not wanting a backup plan as much as it is trying to fill any number of the other greater needs the Orioles have. Why take a decent C prospect that will likely sit behind Weiters when you could pick up an equally talented (name your position here) prospect that has a chance to really help the organization in the next year or two? That’s why C makes no sense in my opinion. They have too many other needs.
AyalaFan,
Good point. Considering Weiters, Zaun, Itzuris, etc… perhaps the best idea would be to offer Washburn (as someone else mentioned) and possibly another SP/LR prospect for Scott? Would that be too much, or is the notion of getting rid of Wash’s inflated 2009 salary just too tempting shold the O’s agree to it?
“I’d love the idea of shipping out Washburn + 5 million in cash for Scott myself. Boom, LH bat problem solved, minimal impact on the rotation, keeps the salaries in line.”
If the O’s felt that they didn’t necessarily need Olson, I don’t know that they would be interested in Washburn, who is older and more expensive.
Yeah, and the O’s just picked up Rich Hill. Ooops.
Mac, there’s no shame in admitting you’re wrong. Scott is a valuable player and Johnson is not – guys like him or better get shuffled around every winter and command sub $1 million contracts.
It’s not so much about what an incredible player Weiters is – and he is by every account a phenomenal player – it’s just that you’re overstating both the Orioles’ organizational need for catching and Johnson’s skills.
rmac – I don’t think we’ll see any salary move in acquiring scott. The O’s are not a team looking to take on garbage salaries (even if the M’s were to pay half). I think that we’ll have to offer a midlevel prospect, say, for argument’s sake, a Gabby Noriega (who we could give up having Truinfel in the system) and PTBNL or something.
So, we have now eliminated soft tossing lefties and catchers from the Orioles’ organizational needs.
Tantalisers,
Hey, I’m not suggesting Rob Johnson is some exceptional prospect, rather, I was asking if the O’s would be interested in him via trade with Seattle. According to everyone who responded to my question, it would seem Baltimore is NOT, so that’s the end of it.
All things considered, though – the Orioles’ recent roster moves and apparent lack of needs in the multiple departments – it would seem to the casual observer that Baltimore is probably not the best option for the M’s to go fishing for corner OFers.
Anybody want to flip Garrett Olson back to the Orioles for Scott? Then Baltimore would have essentially snagged Pie and Hill for Luke Scott, a low minors bullpen arm, and whatever the PTBNL is.
“it would seem to the casual observer that Baltimore is probably not the best option for the M’s to go fishing for corner OFers.”
Of course Zduriencik could always involve a third team who whose needs and strengths would facilitate a potential M’s-O’s deal.
True, Tek – that seemed to work out rather well in our favor with the Putz/NYM deal.
So, we have now eliminated soft tossing lefties and catchers from the Orioles’ organizational needs.
And OF, MI, CI… what’s left?
*blink blink*
Anybody want to flip Garrett Olson back to the Orioles for Scott? Then Baltimore would have essentially snagged Pie and Hill for Luke Scott, a low minors bullpen arm, and whatever the PTBNL is.
Interesting. Olson is under club control for 4 (?) years, Scott for 3. Do the M’s need Olson? Do they need Scott?
Maybe the Baseball Gods have a gift for the M’s in exchange for the hosing we took in the Bedard deal…
::: dreaming :::
I’m all for grabbing Luke Scott. He’s a Mariner killer. Let’s grab David Murphy while we’re at it!
The Orioles are a team that could benefit from having Washburn. How about something like Washburn and Mike Wilson (or Justin Thomas or Ryan Feierabend) + cash for Scott? Could that sort of deal be swung or do you think it would take a player like Tui or even Wlad?
If Abreu does sign a one year deal for 8mil with the White Sox, can we have a “kick Chuck Armstong in the nuts day” at Safeco Field?
If you look at Scott’s splits verses Wiggington’s splits, it looks like they will make a great platoon. Also, the O’s have an aging third baseman and a second baseman they will move for the right price. There is a good chance that Pie never becomes a productive major league hitter and then Scott will still be needed in the outfield. Because of all this, I don’t think that the Wiggington signing means Scott is available for cheap. If Roberts stays, Mora stays good, and Pie hits, then the O’s end up paying 3.4 million (Scott’s salary plus Wiggington’s) for a valuable platoon. If any of them fail, Scott or Wiggington will be able to fill right in. The only way I see Baltimore trading Scott is if they believe that Nolan Reimold is for real (so far I don’t believe they do) or they get blown away by a ridiculous trade offer.
Camden Yards is still a bandbox right? So why would they be that interested in an overpaid flyballer (though the Ms would probably have to eat some salary to make that work). Even if Washburn has some value it would seem like the Os are a terrible fit.
Am I wrong?
yikes – sorry, Wigginton not Wiggington.
Actually only a little more than 1% more flyballs turn into HRs there than an average park. They have very mobile outfielders that can track down many of the flyballs that Washburn gives up. That and an average season of Washburn is at least a couple of wins better than whatever pitcher he replaces in that pathetic rotation.
The White Sox didn’t make an offer to Abreu.
Fair enough – I stand corrected.
Luke Scott flew under my radar. I have to admit it. But, acquiring him would make perfect sense.
And it wouldn’t take a humongous offer to get him- normally, Rob Johnson is the name I first think of as a tradeable chip…but the Orioles need him like they need a hole in their head, and I doubt they’ll feel so remorseful for raking us over the coals last year that they’ll just give us a freebie.
The problem is it’s obvious the Orioles know our system very well: they hit every one of the juicier secondary names that we had in Tillman, Butler and Mickolio. So we won’t be getting Scott for any Coke machine.
But, I think a guy like Maikel Cleto would get the deal done. Call it Cleto and Feierabend if a second player is needed.
Man, the Orioles are actually a pretty good organization now. Then again, so are the M’s. What a bizarro world.
So acquiring Scott would make Chavez the reserve outfielder and leave Balentein as trade bait. Yea, this would be good.
They have very mobile outfielders that can track down many of the flyballs that Washburn gives up
Who’s that center fielder again…hmmm…
The White Sox didn’t make an offer to Abreu.
A non-offer makes more sense than an offer would have. With Thome at DH (and Konerko at 1B keeping Thome at DH), Quentin in LF, and Dye in RF, the White Sox are full everywhere that Abreu could be a full-time player.
Crasnick claims it was exploratory interest.
it’s been interesting to see Olney’s continued lobbying for Griffey.
You mean annoying. While I’m sure Jay Buhner is still rooting for his old pal Ken, even he’s starting to understand that it’s time to move on from the nostalgia:
I love you Bone. Don’t ever change.
Hey TIF, you got a link for that? I’d love to read the article.
Some have said we should have just hired Bone instead of his separated at birth twin as GM in 2004. He could hardly have done worse, and he certainly understands the fan community here in ways Bavasi never could.
nah. making all those phone calls would interfere with coaching the kids.
Neither of which I would call outstanding qualifications for a GM. (Yeah, keeping fans happy is great, but giving them a winning team is the best way to keep them happy… and if your primary qualification is “Hey, I’m no worse than Bavasi” can you really deliver on that?)
I’m totally on board. So what would Luke Scott cost? What do the Orioles even need? Would it be something like RRS or maybe Feierabend? I don’t know. Just throwing out ideas. What do you think?
It’s on the main “official” Mariners website page. The actual context of the conversation is about inviting former Mariner greats to Spring Training as coaches and such. Still, at least Bone recognizes that living in the past wont help the team going forward. Another great quote:
[not even remotely close to on topic. I mean, not even in the neighborhood]
[your last three comments have been edited, consider it a subtle hint]
Um, actually…. turns out there’s another option available to us.
psst- Chase, please reconsider or you will end up banned.
As for Bone and his quote about 1995 and 2001, I think we should lobby the M’s to instill that as their new slogan (yeah, I know they just changed it). Letting go of dopey, syrupy nostalgia is great to see. I can’t wait to see what years we have in the next few that we’ll be looking at ten years from now with shock and awe (in the good sense, not the Bedard trade sense).
I got it. Luke Scott from the Orioles in exchange for OF Ezequiel Carerra and LHP Ryan Feierabend.
O’s fan here. This is a great site and I’m glad to see the Mariners are back on track with Z (although I have to admit I miss Bavasi just a little bit).
I’m a big Scott fan, and I think he’s a pretty valuable player given his salary and service time, but he’s probably the right guy for the Orioles to move because he’s miscast as a DH and he might bring something useful back. It’s tough to gauge his trade value given his age, platoon split, and AAAA pedigree, so it could make sense to hang on to him if he’s not valued highly in the trade market.
Some of you correctly identified the O’s needs: infielders and pitching. Washburn would hold no appeal – MacPhail would be looking for players with limited or no ML service time, which might make matching up a bit difficult.
I don’t know the Mariners system well, but glancing at Sickels’ top 20 doesn’t indicate an obvious match. To piggyback off an idea above, I do think the O’s would be interested in getting Olson back in theory, although I can’t see it actually happening (has that ever happened?). How funny would Olson + Cedeno for Scott be?
they should go for it on Scrabble points alone.
The Orioles aren’t dying for outfielders, but Carrera and Feierabend sounds like they’re at about the right talent level. If it’s cool with them, I’d totally do it.
I’m an O’s fan as well:
MacPhail would probably look for young pitching first and infield prospects next. The infield prospects I assume would be close to major league ready, where as the pitching prospects I’m sure MacPhail would be fine if they’re much younger and playing in the lower levels.
Not that the O’s roster is stacked with amazing talent, but it does appear to be almost full in terms of ST competition, particularly in the OF and bullpen.
The infield competition appears to be set and while the rotation might not end up being pretty there are enough starters that a couple multi-millionaires may get paid to stay at home by the Orioles (Jamie Walker, Dannys Baez, Mark Hendrickson). Not too often you see a team dump 10 million in guaranteed salaries before the season but based on the moves by MacPhail it does look like major league ready pitching while it won’t be turned down, isn’t exactly the #1 option…