Griffey’s Departure Timeline
For your convenience in arguing
1997
Winter 97: Griffey moves his off-season home and family to Florida
1998
End of the 98 season: Griffey offered 5y, $64m deal starting in 2001
1999
Safeco opens: Griffey offered 8y, $138m starting in 2001
Woody Woodward departs, Griffey displeased
Gillick wants a new deal, Griffey doesn’t want to sign
Gillick & Co go to meet Griffey in Florida, where Griffey asks for a trade so he can be closer to his family
Griffey has trade veto rights as a 10-year veteran who’d played for five years with the same team, and tells the M’s he’ll accept a trade to four teams, all in the NL: the Braves and Mets in the NL East, and the Reds and Houston in the NL Central (all four teams 1st or 2nd in their divisions). All four hold spring training in Florida.
Not a lot of demand, and Griffey okays talks with Pittsburgh and Cleveland, but is not happy that there isn’t a ton of demand.
Howard Lincoln refuses a two-year deal.
The Mets make an offer during the winter meetings. A call goes badly (according to Thiel, Armstrong said he was headed to dinner and wanted a call back quick or the next day, while Griffey’s agent said Armstrong demanded a reply in 15m, which angered Griffey and possibly scuttled the deal). Griffey refuses the trade. It’s also unclear to me if (and if, when) previous Mets offers were made and discussed (and refused) by Griffey.
Griffey declares he’ll accept only a trade to Cincinnati.
Pat Gillick reaches a deal with Jim Bowden after negotiations which add much racor, including public comments by Griffey about potential trades and threats that he’d veto any trade where the Reds gave up so much talent it would affect their chances to contend.
2000
Griffey’s first season as a Red
For a more detailed account, I recommend (as always) Art Thiel’s Out of Left Field, which goes through this in a lot of detail.
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With Mariner fans, just play the “family” card and you can get away with anything. Griffey, and Chuck & Howard (in recent years) have exploited this to perfection.
The real shame out of all of this – and, I am convinced, a huge part of why Griffey decided to leave – was that the Mariners’ front office did an historically terrible job at building a dynasty. They had, at one point, three bona fide first ballot Hall of Famers, plus Edgar Martinez, who will almost certainly make the Hall one way or another, plus Jay Buhner, not a HOFer but a very solid player in the prime of his career. And what did they do with that? Three playoff appearances in six years, 2 ALCSes, and 2 losing records from 1995 through 2000 (I’m arbitrarily not including ’01 because all three of the sure-thing HOFers were gone by then). All because Woody Woodward was just plain constitutionally inable to put together a bullpen, the back of a rotation, and reasonable starting solutions outside of the Big Five for any period of time.
If I’m Ken Griffey Jr. in that situation at the end of ’99, I’m damn frustrated. At the same time, Cincinnati experienced a brief renaissance (the ’99 Reds, managed by Trader Jack McKeon, finished 96-66 and lost a playoff with the Mets for the wild card), which would have made it very, very tempting to move. Would he have stayed if the M’s won 90-95 games in ’98 and ’99? Yeah, I think it’s very possible. The death of his friend Payne Stewart would have still weighed heavily on his mind but perhaps if the M’s gave him some better reasons, he’d have responded by moving his family to Seattle.
I think there’s a subconscious understanding of the grand missed opportunity that makes M’s fan somewhat understandable about the losses of Griffey and Randy Johnson. A-Rod, well… A-Rod just left.
We get it. You don’t want Griffey, and for whatever reason think he’s “as bad” as ARod, for lack of a better phrase.
BTW, if you’re going to include these types of timelines I would like to offer up another bullet: the day after Griffey gets the MVP the front office announces that they’re not going to sign Randy. Seriously – look it up. The day after! Could they have mismanaged that any more? Here’s Griffey, who everyone knows is super sensitive, and you take the one opportunity to let him bask and overshadow it with this stupid announcement. They could’ve waited a week, but no. They have to go out the next day with it.
Idiots.
Finally, while I agree that getting Griffey doesn’t necessarily help the team from a statistical standpoint, you can’t argue that bringing in “home town” guys has been the MO for the front office for years now. If anything this is yet another good indication of how good a GM Z is.
For me the best case would be that we have a need for Griffey at the trading deadline and we’re somehow able to unload Washburn for him. That way we get rid of an albatross of a contract, and even if Griffey doesn’t wow everyone he’s only here for a couple of months.
How is that “historically bad”? And if “building a dynasty” is your benchmark, wouldn’t every franchise in baseball (excl. the Yankees) be a historic failure?
Usually, when i hear someone say the words “I see both sides”, I think that they are just too scared to state their opinion or host a radio show on espn between 3 am and 7 am…But, on this one, I do. The decision he made was very childish, in my opinion, and reaked of you-dont-love-me-itis. But on the other hand, he gave the franchise a decade of other worldly play, and all he had seen was the organization sell its best players off up to that point (minus the randy deal). With all things considered, i just dont see how griffey at wal mart prices is a bad thing if worst come to worst.
We get it. You don’t want Griffey, and for whatever reason think he’s “as bad†as ARod, for lack of a better phrase.
Where do you get that? People have been arguing back and forth for days about whether he demanded a trade or not and getting the timeline all screwed up, and I wanted to try and at least set the timeline down.
Don’t read anything more into this than I’ve written.
Fair enough.
I was paranoid that people were reading more into what I was saying, so I should do the same.
My bad.
How many teams with 3 1st ballot HOFers on them in their prime (so exclude the 1926 Athletics) are this mediocre? I’m not talking so much about their performance in the playoffs, which to a great extent is a crapshoot; I’m talking about how 3 out of those six years they couldn’t even get there in the first place. Even in the years they did make it, they did so as an essentially 90 victory team (the ’95 team was 79-66, which works out to around 90 wins in a 162 game schedule). All other things being equal, a 90 win team is generally going to be at a disadvantage in a short series against a 95-win one. Yes, they had a chance against the Indians and the Yankees, but they were coming in as underdogs.
Given the amount of top-tier talent that was on that team, I don’t see how one can regard the Mariners of the mid to late 90s as anything better than a mild disappointment.
Derek – What would be wrong with giving Griffey an incentive based one year contract with the agreement that he would not be a full time outfielder? Do you really see this team as one player away from being a playoff contender? Do you really see Griffey taking time away from a young outfielder who has a future?
Enough with the negative Griffey columns.
If the Mariners sign Griffey will be he magically be the player he was in 1995 – nope.
Will he give some excitement to this team – Hell Yeah – can you really be a Mariners fan an not feel the same way?
Why is this a negative Griffey column? It’s a summary of events that led up to and including his trade to the Reds.
This isn’t at all about the potential signing.
The bone that always stuck in my craw with Griffey was the public demand of a trade TO THE REDS AND ONLY THE REDS. However badly he was treated and however much sympathy can be mustered for his position is pretty much canceled by this flagrant knee-capping of the Ms bargaining team. Thank God Mike Cameron turned out to be Mike Cameron, but seriously, when someone tries to dick you over on purpose, the fact that they ultimately failed doesn’t let them off the hook.
Also I was at one of the Reds games last year. Griffey hit a home run and I gave him a standing ovation. I f’n love Ken Griffey, Jr.
Its the collection of columsn that you and Dave have been writing on Griffey.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe that USS Mariner is one of the best sports blogs and you guys do an amazing job. I read it everyday.
I share the philosphy that you guys have on roster construction. But sometimes you have to throw away the numbers and sign a guy who will put smiles on the faces of all Mariners fans. There is one player that can do that and that’s Griffey. Let’s bring him back and let him retire where he belongs, in Seattle.
To quote a old post by DMZ, “The window’s shorter that many people realize.“
But sometimes you have to throw away the numbers and sign a guy who will put smiles on the faces of all Mariners fans.
No, you don’t.
I’m a Mariner fan (or at least someone who watches a good chunk of all but a handful of games every year, and buys tickets to a few of them) and that won’t get anything on my face but a grimace. But then again I followed the M’s from their start through the 80s, but was out of North America a lot and not following baseball at all for most of the 90s. So my opinion isn’t distorted by happy (or jilted) memories of Griffey, ARod, or RJ.
Call me a bad Mariners fan if you want, but a large part of the goodwill the team’s generated with me this offseason would be offset by bringing in Griffey.
At this point in his career, he won’t help the team win games, and I personally am much more annoyed about the way he left the team (basically forcing the team into a bad trade and being disingenuous about why he wanted to leave) than the way A-Rod left the team (going where the money was, which is what any of us would do if put in his position).
We’ve seen a really progressive set of moves out of this team this offseason; more pandering to the past is exactly what we don’t need.
What is the harm of signing Griffey to a one year incentive based contract where he agrees to not playing full-time outfield?
I have seen your WAR comparisons – it’s not going to have the great of impact. If Wlad was Adam Jones I could see your point. But he’s not and our other options don’t excite me.
Ok you’re a bad Mariners fan.
Do you guys ever do anything spontaneous? Live a little.
Plus Griffey will have a similar market impact for the Mariners that Ichiro does. In a struggling economy it’s a no brainer to sign Griffey. The team’s future will be better if the M’s don’t lose a lot of money this year. Griffey could help with that.
Darn it! Every time I make a good point, it turns out that Dumbsteg* already made the point 4 years ago! :angryemoticon:
*I keed! I keed!
Do you guys ever do anything spontaneous?
Not that we’re never spontaneous, but non sequiturs do not equal spontaneity.
To paraphrase Crash Davis: “Don’t be spontaneous. You can only hurt the ballclub.”
My guess is that the same people blowing the “bring Jr back” trumpet also want him to start in center…
I would not be surprised if Griffey was signed, and subsequent “rumblings” about it being a “executive level decision” surfaced.
What happened to the ‘How Griffey Will Hurt Attendance’ Thread? I could’ve sworn I saw it posted earlier. Twas an interesting read.
Here’s my two cents on everything. I was as big a Griffey Jr. fan as anyone, and was exceedingly sad when he not only left, but intentionally screwed the ballclub in the process. That being said, I still have a lot of affection for my memories of him in Seattle, and I don’t think its hyperbole to say that if Griffey had been a bust, we wouldn’t have a baseball team in Seattle.
However, I do not want us to bring him back. Not just because of the fact it would block development of possible future contributors, but because I like the fact that the last time I saw him in a Mariner uni, he was one of the best players on the planet. I would find it quite sad to see him hobbling around, a broken down shell of his former self with his perfect and fluid swing seemingly stuck in molasses now that age has sapped his explosiveness. It’s like Johnny Unitas, Craig Biggio, or Brett Favre, players who don’t know when to walk away.
I’d much prefer to look back at every year he was an M knowing he was contributing on a level very few ever achieve. He will go into the HOF as an M. If he wants to do a 1 day sign and then retire, I am fine with that. But please don’t force me to watch him as some sentimental gimmick, an Old Yeller for the fans who were never able to let him go ten years ago.
However, I do not want us to bring him back. Not just because of the fact it would block development of possible future contributors
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Like Wlad? – You have to be kidding
Clement? – He is either going to contribute at Catcher or he is not a big help
I don’t get the argument that bringing Griffey is preventing someone else GOOD…from playing.
Both Wlad and Clement have a better chance to be good in 3 years than Griffey does. That is, Wlad and Clement have a chance to be good in 3 years. It may not be a large chance in Wlad’s case anyway, but it is a chance.
I don’t want Griffey here, regardless of price or playing time.
He’d be a pointless distraction in what could otherwise be a very big step in the right direction for this franchise.
1995 was over a long time ago; let it stay in the past.
I would love to see Griffey back, but I’ll completly understand if Jack Z decides not to, and I can’t fault him for it.
When it comes to Griffey, my favorite professional athlete of all-time and always will be, I just can’t say no.
Speaking of Out of Left Field, which is a really good book, its probably a good idea to skip the last chapter. If I remember correctly it was written after 2001, looking at Piniella leaving and looking forward to baseball with Bob Melvin and Bill Bavasi… fun times.
And to Griffey, no thanks.
I don’t want Griffey here, regardless of price or playing time.
He’d be a pointless distraction in what could otherwise be a very big step in the right direction for this franchise.
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“very big step” …. might be a bit of an overstatement. Yes we have fewer high paid crappy players (we have more lower paid crappy players). Bringing in Griffey for a year is not going to hurt the Mariners World Series chances this year….