Wheel of Griffey stories continues
That Ken Griffey Jr.-to-Seattle reunion isn’t a foregone conclusion just yet.
Two baseball sources told ESPN.com on Saturday that the Atlanta Braves are making a late play for Griffey and have begun discussing money with his agent.
Pfffffffffft. Unless Griffey doesn’t show up in Seattle for his physical Monday or Tuesday, I’m not going to put any stock in this. I don’t know if it’s chatter, or if his agent wants to put some doubt into the situation to try and extract another million out of the M’s at the last moment, or what.
But really, if they call the M’s back and say “Hey, you heard the Braves are interested, right? And spring training works out better for him… but if we go to $5m, he’d prefer to be in Seattle.” The Mariners should say “Hold on, we’ve got Anderson on line two…” and then hang up.
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wow, i thought this website was pretty certain griffey was coming here
guess you guys were wrong
feel better?
Mmmmmmmm, not yet.
If we can’t have a winning team this year, I’d like to at least see Griffey play his last game in a Mariners uniform.
And plus, the Cougs blew it against Oregon State today and all my other favorite teams suck right now. . .
So no, I’m not feelin’ better.
Not even watching “My Oh My!” would make me feel better.
I got concerned about this as well when I heard it on the radio driving to my Woodland Park Zoo volunteer day. Then I remembered DOH! the National League DOESN’T HAVE THE DESIGNATED HITTER! One reason Charlie Finley proposed the position was that pitchers don’t practice hitting regularly so they suck at it. Another was to extend the careers of sluggers who no longer could play the field. That’s Griffey, as much as I hate to say it. So, although the geography works, the rules just don’t. Griffey is retiring a Mariner.
Word from Geoff Baker is that the Braves can only offer Junior 2.5 million dollars AT most … and that although he wants to play more for ATL the Braves’ scouts don’t think Junior will hold up in LF.
I think Lincoln and the M’s come in with a 5 MM offer.
The money quote from Baker:
Geoff, that’s why you’re a newspaper reporter and Zduriencik is a general manager. People who are paid to negotiate for a living relish the opportunity to play a little hardball. Well, people not named Bill Bavasi.
You do realize that the authors of this BLOG don’t claim to be insiders right?
So, no, they aren’t wrong. The ten thousand media outlets and “sources” claiming it was all but a done deal are the ones at risk of being wrong.
It would not be a huge issue if Jr went to Atlanta. He could probably help the Ms in a strict platoon against righties as a DH. He also would probably be unhappy in that role and I have a hard time seeing it working out. Truthfully he is the Ms backup plan to their backup plan and the Ms are basically just a place for him to play another year if he can’t find anybody else to sign him. That’s not a marriage made in heaven and being left at the alter in that situation isn’t a tearjerker.
But now I am actually sad. Considering that punctuation is vital to conveying meaning to sentences, you’ve apparently stumbled upon the secret of time travel (already calling scoreboard?) but likely don’t possess the wherewithal to share these secrets with the rest of humanity.
The only thing bad about Griffey going to Atlanta is that it will not end the “Bring Griffey Back” columns and articles. Oh well.
An aging player who had his last good season in 2005? Griffey is just the sort of player that Bavasi would have signed to a big multi year deal, and then become surprised when said player never hit like it was 2005.
Hmmm. Evil Rick Rizzs turns into St. Ricco???
hey! they finally talked Larry Stone into a blog page of his own!
“The thing is, though, the Mariners had genuine ambivalence all winter about whether or not to bring back Griffey. And now it appears Griffey has genuine ambivalence about whether he wants to come back to Seattle.”
I think Bavasi likely also relished the opportunity.
He just was consistently bad at it.
I think the guys who play for the Washington Generals relish the opportunity to go out and play in front of a huge crowd every night. Even though they know the Globetrotters are going to spank them hard. The only difference with Bavasi was he didn’t know how outclassed he was going to be.
Well, they weren’t going to get that from Griffey either, unless you were anticipating that total across a multi-year contract. If you’re worried about the offense (and of course there’s always reason to worry about the offense) you should be worried about scoring more runs than the other guys, not obsessing over just one way to accomplish that, much less getting a large chunk of it from just one player (especially one player who doesn’t prevent any runs). There was a very real chance that an ’09 Griffey would miss time to injury, and if he’s all you have where’s your offense then? Add to that the likely decline in power numbers across the league over the next few years due to increasing scrutiny of PEDs, and those fans raised in the 90s to think the long ball is their birthright are either going to have to learn to appreciate the sort of baseball their elders enjoyed, or endure perpetual disappointment. Or agitate to have the fences moved in.
I for one look forward to low-scoring “small ball” games full of defensive gems where every precious, hard-earned run counts so much more.
This is a(nother) vote for “Griffey or the Team As-Is.”
A necessary starting point for such a discussion is a clear understanding of one’s underlying expectations for the 2009 team. I view it as a transition year (notice the avoidance of “rebuilding”). Statistically, we can predict that this team should be substantially better than last year, particularly on defense. We can’t, however, forget that the franchise was the founder of the 100-100 club last year; this is not a franchise with a recent history of success. One of the crucial tasks for 2009 is for the young guys, who are not used to winning games, to figure out that they can compete against anyone in the league. If that’s all they do this year, I would be happy; 2010 and 2011 look pretty bright.
No one player–either free agent or trade–is going to fundamentally change my expecations for the season. Sure, Swisher or Johnson might translate to a couple more wins and help turn this club into a winner sooner. They come at a price though: future talent.
Performance projections aside, Griffey makes a certain amount of sense: he fills a noted need on the roster, would appease certain segments of the fan base and media, would give more meaning to his (hopefully) wearing an M’s hat in the Hall, and would serve as a media lightning rod to take some of the pressure off the new manager and young team. Besides being LH bats, Anderson and Edmonds really don’t bring any of the above intangibles to the table.
In many ways, the Griffey situation has now become a win-win proposition for Z. If he signs him, he’s done nothing more than what many fans, including fans in the media, want. If Atlanta signs him, it can be attributed it to Griffey wanting to be close to home and Z gets back to the business of building a long-term winning franchise around the players now on the roster.
Whatever happens with Griffey, I hope Z otherwise sticks to his plan, including no Anderson, no Swisher, and no Johnson.
What if his plan includes Swisher or Johnson?
If it does, it does. I’m not convinced either is a good long-term answer. Johnson is injury-prone and frankly, I’ve just never liked Swisher. I also don’t want to see us contribute to reloading the Yankees farm system.
The weird thing is, I did NOT want the M’s to bring Griffey back because he’s an old player who won’t help the team develop.
But when it became obvious that he was coming back I began to accept it and kinda look forward to it.
Now that he may not be coming back, on one hand I’m happy that we won’t have to watch him flounder as an M, but on the other hand I feel kinda bummed because I was actually starting to look forward to seeing him in an M’s uni again.
Strange …
Johnson wouldn’t have to be a long term answer since he’s a free agent after 2009 and Swisher, assuming he returns to form, would be a long term solution because he’s good and plays a position (or positions) that still needs to be filled.
I would guess they’d feel stupid because of such quotes:
(On the idea of Griffey to Atlanta)- “Pfffffffffft”
(On Griffey coming to Seattle)- “We know it, you know it, Griffey knows it. There’s no need to post every rumor escalation in every thread.”
(Again of Griffey coming to Seattle)- “look, he’s coming. He’ll take the physical Monday, if he passes, they’ll have a press conference Tuesday or Wednesday. Maybe he takes the physical Tuesday. Nothing’s changed.”
Sounds like stuff that is pretty hard to go back on…
One of the crucial tasks for 2009 is for the young guys, who are not used to winning games, to figure out that they can compete against anyone in the league.
Yes and no. Sure, you want to figure out things about your young players- but this can often be done in the minors (minor league performance is highly correlated with major league performance, once you make the correct adjustments), and I am convinced that some of this team’s problems stem from overaggressive promotion of prospects in the Bavasi era (the Royals are famous for this, too).
I don’t think you should let “let’s see what the kids can do” from improving your team in the here and now, if it’s a reasonable option and it doesn’t cause problems (like, say a bad Carl Everett/Jose Vidro type player blocking a Choo or Doyle).
If that’s all they do this year, I would be happy; 2010 and 2011 look pretty bright.
Really? The 2010 team has to resign Adrian Beltre, or let him walk without a really clear replacement (Tui isn’t really that guy, I think). Mike Carp is a decent talent at 1B, but he’s probably Lyle Overbay or Erik Hinske. The farm system doesn’t have a clear answer at SS if Yuni’s a continued disaster at SS, past Cedeno. Wlad is nothing close to a lock in LF; ditto Clement at C (I am fairly skeptical that a C with knee damage is a long term solution at a position that eats knees).
There are high points in the system, true, but 2010 isn’t going to be a cakewalk for Zdurencik- he’ll possibly have to replace LF, 1B/DH, 3B, SS and C, sort through some pitching, Felix will get more expensive.
Sure, Swisher or Johnson might translate to a couple more wins and help turn this club into a winner sooner. They come at a price though: future talent.
Talent is talent, whether it’s now or in the future. In Swisher’s case, he’s signed to a nice deal that means you could easily trade talent and have it be a deal that works for both sides. (I don’t have a bias against the guy, so a deal where we trade comparable talent sounds fine to me). Johnson’s a more difficult case (since his contract expires after 2009), but that also means that he shouldn’t require as much talent to acquire.
So they’ll be wrong, GTownHoyas. And trolls will wave it in their faces, just like how Ibanez was considerably better than DMZ and Dave projected as a Mariner, how Doyle’s career would turn out, or any other number of things they have been wrong on.
So what? Who cares? Anyone writing on baseball will turn out to be wrong or surprised by something at one point or another, because statistics, projections, scouting reports, watching games, inside sources or what-have-you don’t let you predict the future with 100% accuracy. That’s life. Talent scouts with decades of experience in the field get things wrong all the time- and it’s their JOB to get it right; they aren’t some fan/blogger/sabremetrician doing analysis and paying for the privilege of doing so. Why is it a big deal?
I love this blog, but I think you guys can get a bit arrogant at times. This story has a lot more to it than “Pfffffffffft.”
It really seems likely that Griffey’s going to sign with ATL—players, coaches, and Wren have all said the Braves are definitely going after him. Other people have pointed out why he’d want to play in ATL for personal reasons. And, to be fair, it makes a lot of sense for the Braves.
Diaz is effective against lefties and Griffey is effective against righties. He’s a (relatively) cheap solution for a team that had been linked to Dunn and Abreau. At this point, I’ll be shocked if this doesn’t happen.
From Jayson Stark:
Griffey certainly isn’t a classic middle-of-the-order bat anymore. But the Braves might hit him third or fourth nonetheless, depending on how their other lineup pieces fit together. And if that means Bobby Cox wants to bump Jones down to cleanup, the Chipper said he’d be willing to do that to get Griffey into this mix.
Here’s that Stark link, if you’re interested. It seems Bobby Cox is also in “remember the good ol’ days of Griffey” mode.
Well, in that parallel universe, this would be known as “ISS Mariner”…
Also, none of the moves of the How-Chuck Empire would ever be allowed scrutiny…so, it’d probably be a pretty depressing place.
Comments like these piss me off, and I’m not even an author on this blog.
There’s nothing to go back on. Based on the information known at the time, Griffey was a lock to come to Seattle. Then, literally out of no where, came Atlanta.
So the question starts to be, what the hell are you expecting of this blog and it’s authors? Did you expect them to somehow know that Atlanta might come into the mix at the zero hour? To know how serious Atlanta was? Did you expect them to use their Super Mind Reading Ray Guns to know how insane members of the Braves FO were? Were sabermetrics and baseball analysis somehow supposed to turn Dave and Derek into Ben Affleck in the movie Paycheck?
If they were to have somehow known the future, and still reported it as “done deal”, then you could question them. But, in this case, they knew no more then you did. Were you convinced Griffey was coming to Seattle? Are you somehow questioning your own prognosticating powers now?
Seriously, knock it the fuck off. Hindsight judgment does nothing but prove what a petty bitch y’all can be.
I’m sorry; I wasn’t trying to anger anyone, or seem like a jerk.
I was just saying as someone earlier said the arrogance can get a bit annoying at times, and that there is really no need for this.
Now please don’t get on me and say “well just don’t read the blog if it bothers you that much.” I like this blog, and I don’t think the arrogance that is sometimes projected is needed; people will respect and show interest in your opinions without it.
@Typical Idiot Fan: I’m sorry if my comment came off as ignorant of whatever you took it to be. But realize when you start ranting and criticizing me, you are just lowering yourself to the level you are crticizing people of being at.
Hypocrisy.
this afternoon, crack reporters at Rotoworld score impressive HI of 154…
Ken Griffey Jr.’s agent, Brian Goldberg, said Sunday morning that “it could go either way” between the Braves and Mariners.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s David O’Brien seems to think Griffey will ultimately end up in Atlanta because his family is centered around the southeast United States. Goldberg is in a pretty good spot to drive a bidding war. Both the Braves and M’s like Griffey for his marketability. In this economy, teams are craving high ticket sales.
Jeepers, if Jr goes to Atlanta, write a letter to the local rag’s editorial board demanding to know why Baker and company can’t get their shite together and their facts straight.
If you disagree about the USSM commentary concerning the impact that a Jr addition would have on the Ms chances, then lets hear the argument.
I don’t get the notion that USSM has to apologize (or must feel the need to save face) for errors local reporters make….
I don’t really get the notion that local reporters need to apologize when they’re used as a tool unless it’s a habitual blind spot….
I actually think Griffey going to Atlanta has the potential to work out better for the M’s in terms of having less downside- there’s a non-zero chance that Griffey’s performance in Atlanta would get him released/DFA during the year, or alternately, that he’s available at the trade deadline for cheap, at which point he can show up for a few weeks and give the fans warm fuzzies before he retires.
In the meantime, you can keep working on LONG TERM answers to LF like Swisher.
Typical Idiot (Fan),
Jeeze, I wasn’t asking for an apology from anyone.
I just wanted to point out that a Griffey to ATL deal made sense even before Chipper and others came out of the woodwork supporting it. Griffey is the missing link in LF for ATL because of Diaz’s ineptitude against righties.
My only point is that sometimes it makes you look …. arrogant …. if you presume to know all the reasons someone would do something (an agent driving up Jr.’s price) when other ideas are readily available (ATL’s personnel needs, the team’s spring training location, etc.). Then, when other information comes out (like Jr.’s daughter’s basketball arrangement), you won’t look like you presumed to know everything before it happened, which is, ironically, what you seem to be suggesting my critique on USSM was. (Incidentally, I should say again that I really do enjoy this blog and find most of Dave and Derek’s posts interesting and insightful.)
I don’t expect the bloggers to come up with all the answers all the time. But I also don’t expect to be reprimanded for suggesting they don’t have all the answers. If you can’t deal with a bit of dissension then maybe you should start your own blog called, “If you don’t like what I think then ‘knock it the f**k off’ dot com.”
Soooooooooo if Griffey shows up tomorrow, does the physical, and signs, are we totally vindicated? Or still arrogant but right?
And does it matter if we said what people think what we said, or if we actually wrote something different and it’s being read one way?
Actually, here: If the original post read as anything but “I’ll believe this is substantive when Griffey doesn’t show up in Seattle for a physical” then I offer my apologies. If my admission that I didn’t know what was behind the story read as it’s only the agent driving up the price, my fault for not being clear.
Moving right along then…
I just reread the post and realized I may have overreacted a bit. I think the initial “Pffffft” made the tone seem different than you explained. In reading it again, however, I see your point.
You know what’s lost in all this bickering? I really want Griffey instead of Anderson. Dave hit the nail on the head: Griffey has less value as a fielder than Anderson, and Anderson has less value than Griffey as a hitter. Here’s hoping we get Griffey.
-The Mariners should say “Hold on, we’ve got Anderson on line two…†and then hang up.-
Amen. My guess would be that Griffey’s agent Goldman or whatever has a buddy in Atlanta that can help bluff it up, trading favors via media. And if we don’t get Griffey? More room up front at Safeco, less dumb old fans.
I just came across this quote from the ‘MLB Pro Blog’ of Mark Bowman, who writes about the Braves, and couldn’t help but smile: