The newest Yuni rumor
Baker tosses out another Betancourt trade rumor, this time tying him to San Diego and throwing the names Chase Headley and Matt Antonelli out as potential returns.
I’ll just state flat out that there’s no chance – zero, zilch, none – that the Padres would trade Headley for Betancourt. That’s not happening.
Antonelli for Betancourt isn’t out of the realm of possibility, though. It’s at least feasible, assuming the Padres actually would be willing to give up something for Yuni. They’re a statistically oriented front office, so they’re well aware of his UZR, I’m sure. It’s hard for me to imagine that a team that employs Paul DePodesta would be trying to acquire Yuni, but perhaps he’s just getting overruled on this one.
As for Antonelli, he’s a third baseman trying to play second base, and not doing it very well. He’s a patient right-handed bat with gap power who had a miserable year in Triple-A last year and is off to a terrible start this year as well, suffering a leg injury in spring training that cost him the first month of the season and failing to hit in the last couple of weeks since he came off the DL. He’s the kind of player the M’s could use in their system, though – draws walks and plays the infield, but unfortunately, he’s right-handed. He’s a much better fit defensively at third than second, however, where his ability to turn the double play is highly questionable.
He’s a lower upside guy who could use another few months in Triple-A, but he’d be a pretty decent return for Yuni. Would the Padres make that deal? I doubt it, but you never know. Unlike with Chase Headley, it’s not totally ridiculous.
he’d be a pretty decent return for Yuni
And a pretty decent replacement for Beltre?
SI is reporting the Pads are shipping Peavy to the White Sox for a pitcher, a SS and two other prospects.
So much for the Pads needing a shortstop that can’t hit or field his position.
*sigh*
But we can’t trade Yuni to our hated rivals, the Padres!
Addition by subtraction, I know they SHOULD get something for him but it I think simply getting rid of him is a tremendous move. What, do the other 28 teams in baseball have a trade embargo against the Mariners? It would be nice to trade with someone else, maybe find a team not as miserable as ours. Padres-Mariners (our geographic NL rival?) are going to get called out by the commish for collusion to be awful one of these days.
It’s pretty unlikely that the Padres get a shortstop in the Peavy deal, actually. The two known prospects in the deal are Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda, both pitchers, with the two other players being PTBNLs. Which means they were almost certainly 2008 draft picks, and as such, can’t be officially traded for another couple of months. I’d bet on Jordan Danks as one of those guys – there’s no way the White Sox are giving up Beckham/Poreda/Richard/someone else for Peavy.
You sure Antonelli is a lefty? Looks like a righty to me.
Pull this trigger NOW!
But we can’t trade Yuni to our hated rivals, the Padres!
Personally I think it’s perfect, I can’t imagine a nastier trick to play on our hated rivals. Unless they ask us to throw in another player to get Antonelli, in which case we could offer them Carlos Silva.
Has there been any rumored interest by the Mets? They need a first basemen, and may need a shortstop if Reyes has a serious injury. The asking price for Branyan/Yuni wouldn’t be all that substantial, and getting two need guys for possibly a 2, 3, or 4 star prospect. The only thing that may force them to shy away from us is how we’ve won the Putz trade pretty substantially thus far.
Yeah, you’re right. Definitely right-handed.
By the way, it’s been specifically reported that Beckham is not part of the proposed Peavy deal.
I don’t know what to make of these trade rumors (are they real or not). I do like that it appears the FO is trying to do something to clear out the dead wood. It will be a real test of Z’s abilities as a GM to fix the middle infield in a timely manner but I beleive moving Lopez and Yuni for decent prospects would be a victory even if it doesn’t bring middle infield relief directly. The more quality prospects the Ms have the more tools Z has to fix the problems. Just my two cents.
Could the M’s add something to a Yuni deal to get Headley? Headley would be IDEAL. 3B who switch hits with some power and speed. We get another lefty bat in the lineup at 3B and he would be a young guy under control for a while.
How much would the M’s have to give in addition to Yuni, to get him? Or is that a pipe dream?
Looks like Headley has played all of his games in LF so far this year. Can he still play 3B?
He can probably play third as well as Russ Davis.
You can forget about including Silva in any deal. The Seattle Times (Baker, I think) is reporting that he has a frayed rotator cuff AND labrum. Oh well, what’s three years and $36 million? It’s only time and money and roster space and ’sigh.’
3B? Well, I suppose anything is better than nothing, but honestly, the M’s need to find some middle infielders. Sure, Beltre is probalby gone next year (or in July), but if Tui is our starting 3B next year it won’t be a disasters.
On the other hand, our current starting 2B and SS are disasters (both below replacement level), and there’s nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero, in the system as quality replacements in the near future. Cedeno would be an improvement, but only because Lopez and Betancourt are below RL. Cedeno would still be no better than RL. Woodward is no better.
After that, it’s Truinfel, and his injury pushes him back – he’s not going to help the big league club for another couple of years. And he’s the only middle infielder on the Future Forty.
Maybe they want to attempt switching him to 3B? Harness his arm strength and lower the errors by getting him to concentrate on covering in (mostly) one direction.
Any thoughts on floating Clement as well?
Okay, okay. Now that my jaw has been picked back up from the floor, I have a few questions. I’ll just pretend I didn’t read the Headley thing, because that trade alone would help me start to forgive the sports gods for the year that was 2008.. the darkest chapter in Seattle Sports history. But, as far as the Padres having Antonelli play 2B, is this an issue of organizational depth, or is he not capable of playing 3B either?
Additionally, if the Padres do something really stupid here, I think we should all send them a collective Thank You Card. Would everyone here be on board with that?
I remember when the M’s had a huge abundance of shortstops a few years back but all have been converted to other positions or traded away all thanks to……yep BAVASI!
The problem isn’t just RHP- it’s the right-handed hitting, period. A .669 OPS vs lefties isn’t getting it done, either.
Also, Beltre and Lopez have absolutely stupid home/road splits. Their road stats, while not particularly great, are around a .750 OPS, whereas at home they’re hitting like a pitcher would in the batting order. Imagine my surprise at finding that once again, some RHB that play for the Seattle Mariners aren’t doing so well at Safeco- it’s as if the Mariners play in a ballpark that’s very badly imbalanced in how it treats right- and left-handed batters.
What’s the rush in trading Yuni and Lopez? It’s not likely we are going to be serious contenders this year or next? Both Yuni and Lopez are likely to improve from here to the end of the year and we are likely to get better returns for them this winter. On the other hand some of our 1BDH types might fetch and Asdrubal Cabrera type prospect at te deadline.
Enough with Bavasi… you have to put the past in your behind.
Although seeing articles like this doesn’t help.
On this trade though, really if someone is going to give us something of value for Yuni, we’re absolutely supposed to take it. Don’t think twice, just say yes. Yuni has a negative value. Even if you believe the new Yuni is real, he is still very close to zero in value.
Given that Antonelli is actually right-handed, would this still be a good move? Seems to me that our dearth of left-handed bats is a much bigger problem than Yuni. Ideally, they’d be addressed together.
dchappelle, I thought it was “you have to put your behind in the past.”
As for Yuni, if we could actually get Antonelli for him (maybe by throwing in another player(, that would be a no-brainer. Sure, he’s right-handed — at least he draws walks, so he’s not the same kind of right-handed batter — and iirc, he’s a pretty decent glove at the hot corner, which is more than can be said for Tui at this point (even were he healthy). The bottom line is that he would give us another option at 3B when we deal Beltre, and that’s a valuable thing.
Lopez and Yuni are NOT going to get better this year or in their careers. They both actually have taken steps backward and/or started to decline this year. We’ve been trying to “light a fire” under both of them for years to no avail. We need to either trade them or have the team bus drive off before they can board.
Given that Antonelli is actually right-handed, would this still be a good move? Seems to me that our dearth of left-handed bats is a much bigger problem than Yuni. Ideally, they’d be addressed together.
Yuni has been a terrible player the last couple of years, is about to start getting more expensive, and you’re not going to find LHB SS’s in the trade market. I’m fine with replacing him with Cedeno (who cost us very little in trade) and getting whatever we can for him. Granted, this doesn’t fix the “too many righties” problem, but there are other ways you can address this.
Utis-
Yuni is who he is at this point. It’s incredibly unlikely that he will improve this year.
Lopez is down to a horrible .242 BABIP this year (career .289) so he will come back up as that regresses to the mean throughout the season.
If a team is desperate for a in-season fix at SS because of injury, that is the ideal situation for trading Yuni. Over the winter you won’t get better deals as then you are competing with free agents for a teams attention. Lopez will likely be worth more closer to the deadline if his BABIP improves.
Why on earth would San Diego want Yuni? At all? in exchange for anyone?
On the other hand, our current starting 2B and SS are disasters (both below replacement level), and there’s nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero, in the system as quality replacements in the near future. Cedeno would be an improvement, but only because Lopez and Betancourt are below RL. Cedeno would still be no better than RL. Woodward is no better.
This is easy- you find the 2B/SS equivalent of Endy Chavez (LHB, great defense, tolerable bat, cheap contract), and get a reasonably young middle IF in trade the same way we turned JJ Putz + assorted talent into Gutierrez (and also note that we also nabbed Garrett Olson AND Ronny Cedeno as a derivative of that deal).
Dave’s pointed out a couple of the former previously, and I’m pretty sure the M’s can get one of the latter in the right deal.
Also, I’m not as sanguine about Tui as you are. I’m inclined to wait and see how the rest of his second trip through Tacoma goes before handing him a MLB job, and going on the DL isn’t a great start to it.
Don’t know. Maybe if they aren’t paying attention. His BA is good for a SS (pay no attention to the OBA behind the curtain! Move along, nothing to see here!) and he looks sort of flashy. Some scouts like his fielding tools.
So I can see where a team might think he was a useful addition.
If the M’s are going to ask for any RH 2B prospect from the Pads, I would much rather have Sogard than Antonelli.
Ah, the Greg Hibbard Memorial Trophy…
Soon to be renamed the Carlos Silva Memorial Trophy.
Is this MLB baseball or Fantasy league being discussed? The day to day play has a far reaching impact on the games played, the value/desireability of each player and the number of places that player can be shopped.
Yuni and Lopez have access to the best coaching and training facilities. They have financial stablity, they have all their day-to-day worries tended to. They really have no excuse to not improve if improvement is possible. Or it could be that they are playing to the best of their abilities and no improvement is really possible.
Well, yes and no. First, though Chavez is a nice addition, he’s a +1 WAR guy. If we’re going to be playoff contenders, we can’t have many +1 WAR guys starting. That’s below average, and we need above average to be a playoff team. A middle infield version of Chavez is a role player on a playoff team, not the starting SS.
Second, yes the Putz trade was great, a coup, and it brought fantastic value back. But JJ Putz was considered a premier closer – a hot (and overvalued) commodity. We don’t really have any overvalued commodities on the roster right now that we can offer up in another deal like that. We have some areas of surplus (LHB 1B/DH, RHP relievers) but those are not premium positions.
At this point, the guys who might bring something useful back are pretty useful themselves (e.g. Branyan), and the guys we could live without probably won’t bring top dollar (e.g. Betancourt). Z has his work cut out for him.
OTOH:
I’m reaching the conclusion that Seattle has a terrible player development program, probably among the worst in the league. Other teams that realize this may think they can partially salvage guys who flame out in Seattle by getting them some better instruction. A refurbished Yuni might become a useful cog. If you can get him cheap.
If Silva is actually hurt and misses time, isn’t that good news? I would imagine most MLB teams would try to secure at least some degree of insurance on large contracts like Silva’s.
Can anyone confirm or deny that’s a standard practice? I know it is in the NBA for most large deals.
I’m reaching the conclusion that Seattle has a terrible player development program, probably among the worst in the league.
Well, has had. It’s a little early yet to say what we have now.
Jose Reyes has tendinitis behind his right calf. There has been no official word on how much time he’ll miss (supposedly not much, but you never know) so maybe the Mets could use a SS to go with Branyan in a trade.
The Mets system is loaded with interesting MI prospects, but I’m not sure if anyone is ready for the big time if it comes to that. I wonder if JZ could pry one of their younger guys from them?
By all accounts I’ve heard, Pedro Grifol is pretty good, but it is going to take a while to turn around the team’s past in this regard.
First, though Chavez is a nice addition, he’s a +1 WAR guy.
Endy contributed 4.1 WAR to the Mets from 2006-2008, during two of which he was less than a half-time player. I would argue he’s closer to a 1.5-2 WAR player when used optimally, and that’s the standard I am looking for.
Players at this level of talent just aren’t that expensive to acquire (for instance, Russ Branyan was a similar player- I suspect you could have had him in Milwuakee last year in a deadline deal for not a bunch of talent), and while yes, ideally you’d like a better player, there’s just no reason to think that GMZ isn’t going to be able to find someone like that who’s blocked at the major league level, or so on.
I’m reaching the conclusion that Seattle has a terrible player development program, probably among the worst in the league.
I think this may be the consequence of Bavasi rushing so many players through the minors sink-or-swim style. Hard to put an organizational philosophy together when everyone’s being thrown to the wolves as soon as humanly possible. I think it’s pretty obvious Lopez was pushed into the majors too early, for instance, and he’s sort of done what Jose Guillen did for a while- flounder in the major leagues with a bad organization.
If anything we should get a better end of a deal due to the good faith we gave the pads by sending that SS back to them for nothing. He’s producing better than Yuni…
I’m kinda pulling for the Wilson trade so we can payout the club option and start over with Yuni’s salary that will be saved on.
and
Agreed, but whether it’s “has had” or “still has” it’s all the same for another team looking at a Yuni Betancourt or Jose Lopez. I’m just trying to answer the “why would anyone want Yuni” question. Yuni and Loepz suffered from poor development and, while probably not 100% fixable to be what they could have been, a team with better development than the M’s had the last few years might think they can salvage some value.
Jeremy Reed’s a roleplayer for the Mets now, but he’s a useful roleplayer. Shin-Soo Choo was barely a role player when we traded him for peanuts and now he’s an above average starting OF. His wOBA last year was 50 points better than the highest Mariner position player. And then every time I watch nightly league recaps, it seems like half the closers in MLB are former Mariner flameouts. Other teams have done okay picking off the M’s scrapheap.
Until a few years ago it was reasonably standard for 75-90% of salary to be covered by insurance in the case of a trip to the DL.
Insurers started getting more wary of this when contracts started getting long and stupid though and clubs started finding it a lot more difficult to get coverage on contracts over 3 years, either being unable to get coverage at all or receiving less favourable payouts.
Whether, in this specific instance, the Mariners have Silva covered to some degree I don’t know, however.
Players on the 15-day DL do not count towards the 25-man roster.
Players on the 60-day DL do not count towards the 40-man roster.
It’s just time and money and those were already sunk in.
In either case it makes him ineligible to be included in any trade, even if there were the remotest chance anyone would have been
stupid enoughwilling to trade for him anyway.FYI…MLBTR and Geoff Baker are reporting any Yuni-Wilson swap is dead. Not like we didn’t already know that, but, for official purposes, this continues to show that trades that don’t make much sense usually don’t happen. Pittsburgh would have gotten screwed in that deal, player wise and financially.
I think it’s more than than, and goes back farther than Bavasi. Gillick didn’t care about draft picks, I wouldn’t be surpised to find out he didn’t care much about player development either.
Who was the last legit star (not superstar, just star) position player to come through the M’s system and blossom with the team? A-Rod, and that was 15 years ago. Gott im Himmel that’s a long time. And it’s not like we were busy churning out Cy Young candidates. Felix and JJ Putz are the only legit star pitchers that prospered with the club (and Felix is underperforming). Look at Gil Meche – a frustrating enigma here and a +4.5 WAR/year guy the last two years in KC.
Whatever else Zduriencik does, he has to fix our pipeline.
@ JMHawkins: What…you don’t count Jose Cruz Jr.? j/k
This is very true and I really think GMZ will fix things. I mean he’s a former scout and made a lot of great draft picks with the Brewers. He cares about the draft and developing talent. I’m excited for this years draft to see what he does with all of our picks.
Yuni is an incredibly athletic dude. I think the Padres will: A) move him to 3B, B) Get him evaluated for Anxiety/ADD & ADHD, C) Get him some MASSIVE doses of meds/therapy to manage it, and D)Bench him if the ‘walk talk’ has no effect. His craptastic moments aren’t the result of his athleticism, it’s him up in his head-either thinking too hard or not at all about what’s happening on the field. The guy spent last year on-call as a witness in a court case, he lived here orginally uncertain as to whether he’d ever see his family again. His value, and the only reason he isn’t lambasted by punks like Lou Dobbs is that he can play baseball. He screws up and boom…it’d mess with anybody.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s swing-happy and error prone… However, much of this might be solved. Move him to 3B, cut the area he’s gotta worry about, get him out of his head, get him to take walks and he’s a sleeper All-Star in a couple years…likely as a Padre.
I hope that’s satire.
Jeremy Reed’s a roleplayer for the Mets now, but he’s a useful roleplayer. Shin-Soo Choo was barely a role player when we traded him for peanuts and now he’s an above average starting OF. His wOBA last year was 50 points better than the highest Mariner position player. And then every time I watch nightly league recaps, it seems like half the closers in MLB are former Mariner flameouts. Other teams have done okay picking off the M’s scrapheap.
Come to think of it, Miguel Olivo, Jeff Cirillo and Scott Spiezio spent about 1200 plate appearances being mind-bogglingly horrible as Mariners (collectively well below replacement value)- and then went on to be reasonably decent role players on other teams.
Is Yuni really an “incredible” athlete? I see this statement made sometimes, and I wonder where it comes from. He’s got decent foot speed, with a pretty good arm, but he’s no Adam Jones.
Willie Bloomquist would be 7th on the M’s in WAR so far this year. The M’s would be about 3.2 wins better (for the year) if Willie was our starting SS instead of Yuni.
I can’t get into specifics because the entire four hours was off the record. But anyone who remembers that January conversation with Grifol and the other two Mariners scouting department people (that ended with us giving them a standing ovation) will tell you that, yes, this organization is slowly but surely turning things around. One quote I can give because it’s been posted before, “Our goal is when we get good, we’re going to stay good.” Bavasi has cast a long and terrible shadow but just be patient and have faith. Good times are on the way.
Willie Bloomquist would be 7th on the M’s in WAR so far this year. The M’s would be about 3.2 wins better (for the year) if Willie was our starting SS instead of Yuni.
We can add Carlos Guillen to that list of “Gosh, isn’t it funny how they turned out better once they ditched the blue and teal”, too. Good times.
Crap, I’d almost forgotten about Hibbard…
With the rather hospital-like happenings in the Pads’ MI the last year or so (i.e. one injury after another), Yuni makes some sense for the Padres. A youngish guy who used to show significant upside who badly needs a change of scenery is always a good option in their situation.
Getting Headley for Yuni, though? No way in hell. Unless, maybe, they start serving Frostees there…
The list of players that any team lets go and the player does better elsewhere is endless…
I can’t get into specifics because the entire four hours was off the record. But anyone who remembers that January conversation with Grifol and the other two Mariners scouting department people (that ended with us giving them a standing ovation) will tell you that, yes, this organization is slowly but surely turning things around. One quote I can give because it’s been posted before, “Our goal is when we get good, we’re going to stay good.†Bavasi has cast a long and terrible shadow but just be patient and have faith. Good times are on the way.
Yeah, I don’t want to get too far into “man, Bavasi sucked and we’re doomed”, because, well, we’re not. The history of baseball shows that organizations can spend a decade being terrible and then bounce back pretty quickly once they figure things out. For example, the Red Sox basically spent the last half of Ted Williams’ career slowly disintegrating from one of the best organizations in baseball to being terrible, full of closeted racists, alcoholics and baseball good-old-boys networking in management, all the way through the mid-1960’s- and then in 1967 went back to being a good team again once they got a clue. It really doesn’t take a lot of time to turn the corner… once you realize you need to turn the corner, and the new management has clearly done that.
I might have to get this quote blown up and posted on my wall. If this is truly the approach that would be awesome.
I tend to agree. I mean we did get Bret Boone for his best years and Branyan this year is looking like an all-star and every team in the league could have had him for nothing last summer or this off-season.
[off-topic]
The gist of the quote was that they weren’t planning on trading long-term success for an immediate gain. They were going to build up the farm pipeline to the point where once those prospects started to contribute at the MLB level the team would be good. And then keep the pipeline stocked so that as players left, aged, etc., new players would be ready to contribute.
Looking back on that meeting, if the team is out of contention I’m sure they will pull the trigger on trading any assets that:
a) Are not likely to resign with the team if the team would like to resign them.
b) Do not fit into the team’s long term plans and have the ability to bring back anything that the management does value (see Putz, JJ).
Baker seems baffled that nobody wants an epically lazy player whose whole value depends upon “untapped potential”.
Well, I dont know about overall terrible, but the way that Morrow’s “development” has been handled is borderline criminally negligent.
Leaving the players out of it,have the higher-ups hired the managers and coaches that can make the pipeline better? Is this everyone on the same page or does it take time?
Peavy nixed the trade, so maybe the Pads do need a SS with terrible plate discipline and defensive lapses.
Where is Baker hearing these rumors? They seem pretty wild. Out of curiosity, how good is Headley? I know he’s better than Yuni, but what would be a reasonable projection on him? .4 wins so far in about a quarter of a season. It’s only his first full year, but he’s not as young as most first year players. How much upside does he have left? Is he likely to be more than a league average player? I’ve heard talk of him being moved back to third base. Is there any chance of that happening? If he can put up solid defense at third base and the Padres are considering trading him, it seems like he’d be a pretty good addition.
The simple fact that there are even rumors makes me want to do backflips…
Call the Mets! SS Jose Reyes is probably headed to the DL. Backup MI, Alex Cora, is out a minimum of 8-10 weeks. 1B Carlos Delgado will miss 10 weeks. The Mariners can offer a pair of band-aids in the form of Yuni & Branyan, and the latter can be a lethal weapon off the bench once the starters get healthy.
Branyan isn’t going anywhere. Offer them Yuni and Shelton.
He sees dead people.
Branyan isn’t going anywhere. Offer them Yuni and Shelton.
If the Mariners want to pluck one of the young MI’s out of the Mets system, they will have to do better than Yuni/Shelton.
Depending on the M’s chances, I could see Branyan being a nice sell-high candidate for the M’s if they start to tank at the deadline. And I fully admit I was wrong about him.
One thought I have on the Peavy trade being nixed by Peavy himself:
Maybe, just maybe, Zduriencik should have Kenny Williams (ChiSox GM) on the horn.
Williams is aggressive by nature, and it’s now very clear he’s going to go for this year. And he needs better, more experienced guys in his rotation.
Names like Aaron Poreda and Clayton Richard would look quite good in Mariner blue, if we can formulate a good enough enticement.
I don’t hold much hope for the Gordon Beckhams to be had, it would take more than what we would part with in all likelihood….but without breaking into a full rosterbation post, this might be a match as a trade partner.