Drayer: Yuni to KC for minor leaguers
DMZ · July 10, 2009 at 12:16 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Two pitchers — Derrick Saito, command lefty
Dan Cortes, big right hander who walks dudes
If the M’s aren’t picking up Yuni’s salary, our front office deserves end-of-year awards.
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Pitchers Daniel Cortes and Derrick Saito.
710 just said Dave would be on in 10-15 min to break down the deal.
Derrick Saito
Daniel Cortes
Go KC! Mariners Lite!!!
Cortes looks like he’s in the middle of a pretty serious regression this year.
Saito is putting up some interesting numbers, but he may end up with the short pitcher stigma.
(insert standard comment about heavy traffic days and not hitting post repeatedly if it doesn’t appear to go through the first time)
Well bye.
For Yuni, I’ll take a regressing Cortes and an interesting, short Saito.
Now KC can have a Yuni-Bloomie DP combo. Let the good times roll.
Solid return for Yuni, wish him luck in baseball hell.
Sorry for the double post but me fingers can hardly contain themselves.
Looks like the M’s are sending some money to offset Yuni’s salary but I’m very happy to get these two prospects. We just got arguably the best pitcher in the Royals system and another arm for Yuni.
Farewell, sweet Yuni! For your sake, I hope you get your shit together.
His walks are up and his strikeouts are down this year. I wonder why?
Dave’s on 710. Just starting to talk about the trade now (started off talking mostly about FG).
Steal for the M’s. Anything would have been.
Looks like Drayton Moore has really lost it.
I wonder if this portends another deal in the works, or if turning Yuni in any kind of prospects was simply too good a deal to pass up.
I wonder if Yuni even gets it? Swinging at the first pitch out of the strike zone for an infield pop-up to end a rally (when the pithcer just walked the previous batter on 4 straight pitches).
Or that putting on 25 pounds affected his range.
“Daniel Cortes, 21, has improved more so than just about any prospect in the system in the past two years. He was stolen from the White Sox in a trade for reliever Mike MacDougal. Cortes’ improvements can be tied to a fastball that has jumped into the mid-90s range, as well as the development of a curveball that is now a plus pitch. The right-hander’s change-up, though, is lacking and he could be facing a move to the bullpen where he could become a dominating eighth- or ninth-inning pitcher. He posted a 3.48 ERA (but 4.40 FIP) at Double-A in 2008 and allowed 103 hits in 116.2 innings. Cortes posted a high walk rate of 4.24 BB/9 and a strikeout rate of 8.41 K/9, which should be higher given his stuff.”- Marc Hulet via fangraphs.com
yes and yes.
The M’s aren’t looking at Ronnie Cedeno as the permanent solution at shortstop. I’ll bet money on that.
Hard to say, but he has had some issues with the law recently.
Clearly this is true, but I was more curious about the short term rather than the long term. Either way, I like shipping as washed up SS for pitching prospects with (at least?) MLB bullpen upside.
Apparently KC liked Willie so much they wanted the guy he used to sub for.
I’m starting to think any trade speculation should automatically begin with KC and the Phillies, no matter how absurd it might seem, just because those two teams have such a lust for ex-Ms.
And yeah, this is clearly just the first shoe to drop; there will be a second trade — though it might still be days away.
Desperation, maybe? Mike Aviles has a 22 OPS+ this season after a good year last year, and they don’t have anyone else to put at Short…
Luis Hernandez has an OPS+ of 19.
Tony Pena is at -35 (yes, a negative OPS+).
And WFB isn’t a good enough fielder to play short every day.
Can anybody summarize? I wasn’t able to find live streaming in time.
Hooray! I don’t care if they got Bob Ueker in return, I’m so happy to have him out of there. Thank you KC for continuing to take M’s castoffs. Outside of Willie there isn’t a single M turned Royal I would want back.
This from the trade-blurb on http://www.kansascityroyals.com...
He has been tough to strikeout throughout his career, fanning just once every 11.86 plate appearances, the sixth-best total in baseball since 2005 (min. 2,000 at bats).
Way to try to sell the sunshine without mentioning the butt it’s coming from to your fans, fellas. Yeah…it’s tough to strike out if you don’t see many pitches!
KC was so happy with Willie, why not go out and get the player that was keeping Bloomquist on the bench if he’s available?
But he’s still gotta be better than Yuni.
Great news! Getting anything in return for keeping him out of the lineup and the organization is a bonus. Hopefully the next step brings us a decent infielder.
Baker’s reporting that the M’s ate salary, but Zduriencik wouldn’t detail how much.
I don’t care. The M’s got actual talent back for Yuniesky Betancourt. Outstanding.
Jay, who hasn’t peed on a fence before? As long as it wasn’t an electric fence, then I don’t know if it’s that worrisome.
Why didn’t we get a middle infielder who was a major leaguer?(IE Freddy Sanchez)
Does this mean Cedeno will start the rest of the year? (Sigh)
On further reflection, you have to be asking yourself: “Why did Kansas City do this? What do they gain from it?”
As far as I can tell, absolutely nothing. They sent something away for nothing. How does that help them? They’re out of the pennant race, and so it’s not like this is a short-term fix to shore up a component of their team. Or have they gotten that sour on Cortes, due to his legal issues?
To boil it down to 2 bullet points:
1. Gutierrez is great, better than expected so far this year. He’s worth 20 million this year, so he’s a bargain.
2. echo’d DMZ comment at the top,
Basically, glad to get two guys that may turn out to be useful. Mentioned Cortes lack of control, but as a possible upside comparison mentioned JJ Putz.
Because you have to give up value to get value.
Sanchez is Pittsburgh’s lone All-Star. He will probably stay a Pirate at least another week.
Christmas in July! Woo hoo!
Scroll down a bit and I asked a question about Cortes and Saito in this Baseball America Prospects chat.
Are there possibly still trade talks in the works with the pirates for wlad or halman?
All I can say is that we should be sending Royals fans sympathy bouquets.
The Royals are starting to make the Pirates look like a well-run franchise.
Let me know if we’re not allowed to speculate on anything solid here, but what kind of return would Wlad and Halman bring? Just Sanchez? Or Snell as well?
What, Z couldn’t get Greinke in the deal?
Seriously, this is amazingly good news.
Yuni for any team’s top pitching prospect? AND a command lefty out of the pen?
I’ll take that any day.
This deal does not preclude any other deal.
It makes some kind of deal for middle infield help even more likely as the deal now has one fewer player above AA who could “play” SS.
OK, and I’ll say something else:
The M’s paid X% of the $10M they owe Yuni for the rights to two prospects. When you look at it like this, the trade seems a little less imbalanced.
OTOH, this is a prime example of a GM seeing undervalued talent and acquiring it in exchange for overvalued talent. Given how many Bavasi trades had the M’s on the wrong side of that equation, it’s nice to come out the winner for once.
It’s not open season for rosterbation, but I don’t know that we can necessarily stop you. Let’s just try to keep it somewhat reasonable, huh?
We cannot acquire Snell without the -ing!!
Hahahahahaha, have fun in Kansas City, Yuni!
Enjoy being in baseball purgatory!
Wasn’t 100% of that money already spent anyway?
The more I read about Cortes, the more I picture an Aardsma lite. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing at all.
Thoughts on other trades…I know at this point we just want to get to the playoffs and maybe it is silly to think of what to do once we get there, but run prevention is more valuable than run scoring in the playoffs. If we trade Bedard or Washburn, it would seem that it could seriously hamstring the team if they got there. This is, of course, assuming Bedard stays healthy and I can understand not wanting to take the risk but it is something to think about.
We were on the hook for it, but theoretically KC could’ve taken some of it. Yuni was a sunk cost, you are right on that point.
“Now KC can have a Yuni-Bloomie DP combo. Let the good times roll.”
Yes, and Mariners fans will be looking on with jealous envy for the next several years.
The Mariner … uh… dream DP combo. What could have been. Sigh.
Yuni’s value has been below replacement level – that is, with a bit of work to find a non-Cedeñoesque replacement the Mariners could have released Yuni and improved the team while continuing to be on the hook for virtually all of Yuni’s remaining salary.
Instead not only are the Mariners not on the hook for some part of his salary, they also got back at least one player who has some MLB potential.
I don’t see how this is anything other than another great move. We would have been happy just seeing Yuni go away. Now he’s gone and the team gets value back as well.
wish i could trade my girlfriend for two prospects. once in love, but no more. good move.
re: earlier comments
When I posted that link to Cortes’ law run-in, I wasn’t being all that serious about it, just making fun of the phenomenon.
You may remember a few years back when a few Mariners farmhands got in trouble for wrecking some cars. As it turned out, it was just a Midwest League tradition for players to buy beaters and crash them together at the end of the season, obsolescence made fun, if you will, but the police were not aware of what was going on and ended up making a mess of things.
I realize Sanchez is a better hitter, but we really need Wilson more. Imagine a guy who hits a little better than Yuni…and fields a lot better. Even if he is already in his early 30′s, we need someone to play there for a couple of years until someone else emerges.
There is one downside to this trade that many people have not considered.
What will become of the Bizarro Yuniesky Betancourt Fan Club?
It gets suspended in Bizzaro World purgatory, duh!
I feel sorry for the fans over at the Royals message boards. They have no idea what they are getting, talking about Yuni’s excellent defense and such.
As a longtime Royals fan (OK, OK, get it out of your system, but at least they’ve got a World Series Trophy in their case…albeit from when I was still in high school,) I see this as good for Seattle, and not likely to drag KC down any further than they already are…and if Yuni can
keep from injuring his new teammateswake up and smell the reality of his situation, it might turn out pretty good for them…BTW, for a chuckle, take a look at this How to be a Royals Fan guide.
Poor bastards in KC.
Farewell, so long, I hope that you take this as an opportunity that all of us here would love to have had Mr. Betancourt. Good luck, Good Bye.
In Z we trust. I have never wanted a GM’s autograph before but I sure want his. Thank You.
At least one KC sportswriter isn’t amused…Quote from Idahowriter’s link above:
Cortes urinated in public while intoxicated. He’ll fit right in when he walks over to Pioneer Square after home games.
In Z we trust. I have never wanted a GM’s autograph before but I sure want his. Thank You.
deals like this make me happy i got him to sign a ball at fanfest. Thank you jack z!
I think that being a Royals fan takes its toll on the weak-minded. The Royals, having a black hole at shortstop, went out and acquired the starting shortstop for a team that had an equally large problem at shortstop. And many fans see this as a great step forward for the team.
I’m guessing that many of these are the same Royals fans who took issue with Dave’s organizational ranking of the Royals at Fangraphs this spring.
If the Royals wanted to get the 2007 Mariners squad back together so badly, why don’t they just hire Bill Bavasi and save themselves some trouble?
The Mariners have agreed to pay some portion of Yuni’s salary going forward.
If the Royals got Jack to pay Yuni’s entire salary, the deal looks better for them. If Jack got away with paying none of Yuni’s salary, the deal looks better for us.
Given the two players received in return, where’s breakeven?
Getting rid of Yuni is awesome … it’s something the Bavasi regime never would have done.
I have 100% confidence in this FO and it’s SO nice for change!
Breakeven is simply getting rid of Betancourt and eating the salary owed him. That move by itself would have made the team better. Getting anything at all in return swings the deal positive for the Mariners. Getting something back and not being responsible for any portions of Betancourt’s salary is yet further in the Mariners favor.
There is an additional point to make here: this is a message to Jose Lopez. No one is here to protect you other than your own performance on the field. Unless you’d like to play for the Nats or Pirates.
Maybe Dayton Moore is smarter than I give him credit for. As suggested by a commenter at fangraphs, maybe the Royals have decided to make a serious run for the right to draft Bryce Harper next year.
Yuni is owed $13M for the next three years ($3M, $4M, and $6M). Is it plausible that we’re still paying most of that? Or does ‘cash considerations’ usually mean less than that?
Playing Yuni and WFB certainly can’t hurt KC’s chances of landing Harper. Do they need Woodward or Corcoran?
This from a KC sports site. I think he cribbed from posts on Yuny from USS Mariner.
OK, refresh my memory here. Wasn’t there a post recently showing how bad Yuni was even compared to replacement level? So how many wins does plugging Wilson or some other random player, even from Tacoma, into Yuni’s roster spot get us?
Try this again:
If the Royals got Jack to pay Yuni’s entire salary, the deal looks better for them
Better in the sense that it’s better than if they were paying all of Yuni’s salary, yes.
Better in the sense of ‘good’, no. Yuni has been below replacement level this year. Releasing him and eating the entire future value of his contract would have improved the team. Instead, Zduriencik got two might-have-a-future minor league arms and, reportedly, some of the money back, too. That’s not just advantage->Seattle, that’s pure win. There’s no way in which this is anything other than a coup.
Meh I think you’re allowed to pee on a fence if you get stabbed 8 times saving a co-worker from gang members
From a KC perspective:
http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1226
I think we can tell the gentleman from Kansas City that Yuni’s defense was not affected by his hamstring issue. That’s just Yuni.
Heh. Rob Neyer weighs in.
(I particularly liked “Betancourt does not reach base with any frequency, nor does he reach ground balls with any frequency.”)
Wasn’t 100% of that money already spent anyway?
True, but I was pointing out this isn’t diamonds for crap, its diamonds for crap and money. Still a big win for Z and the M’s, but not the Fleecing Of The Century.
Given the two players received in return, where’s breakeven?
If the SS position has an average UZR higher than Betancourt over the next 2.5 seasons, it’s a win. If Cortes gets his act together and gets some quality MLB service time, it’s a win. If the millions the M’s will save on Yuni’s contract go towards taking a flier on another Branyan-type performance, it’s a win.
IOW, there are many ways this deal is a win for the M’s, and there are only a couple of ways this could be a win for the Royals, all of which involve Yuni not being an underwhelming fielder or impatient hitter. But most importantly, Yuni is no longer going to be injuring M’s in the field or airmailing the ball into the luxury suites. And that’s already a win.
Great…the M’s finally manage to dump Yuni, and they wind up getting the guy who used to do those goofy Burger King ads…
Oh, wait…that was Dan Cortese.
That last year ($6M in ’12) has a $2M buyout: unless Yuni turns himself into another player between now and then, they’re taking the buyout. And even if Yuni does transform back into the guy we thought he was when he debuted, or better, the M’s will take the buyout and leave the Royals on the hook for the rest (assuming the M’s are even paying any part of his salary at that point, of course).
In case you missed it, Shannon Drayer offers a nice analysis from her unique perspective on her blog
According to Fangraphs, his WAR sits at -.8 so far this year, which means some replacement level shortstop in that spot for the rest of the year should be worth almost a win.
Which brings us to the “break-even” question. That Fangraphs valuation offers one way to look at it. Going forward, assuming he was no better in the second half of this year than he was in the first, Yuni was going to cost the team $3.6M over and above the $1M in salary he would paid over the rest of the year (vs just dumping him and plugging in some league-minimum SS). Assuming he didn’t improve (or decline further) over the rest of his contract, that’s $7.2M worth of suck for each of ’10 and ’11, plus the $3.6M for the rest of this year, for $18M total loss resulting from his poor performance, even if he was playing for free. That’s what Zduriencik got the team out of, and even got something back in exchange.
So let’s take the worst case evaluation: both these prospects from KC blow their arms out or quit to go to culinary school or whatever, and the deal requires the M’s to pay all of Yuni’s $10M freight ($1M in ’09, $3M in ’10, $4M in ’11, and the $2M buy-out in ’12).
The team is still $8M ahead.
Now, the accountants out there are going to be pulling their hair out and screaming, because I’m comparing opportunity cost on one hand with real dollars on the other: it’s not like the team gets $8M back from the karma tree because Yuni’s not on the team. But the point is that somebody else is on the team playing SS, and even if’s just a replacement-level guy getting paid the league average, he’s not costing the team $8M in non-production that has to be made up somewhere else in the field and/or at the plate. And when you’re trying to build a team that wins divisions, that is very real and very much what the calculation is all about.
Oh, and meanwhile: that worst case scenario probably won’t happen. The M’s probably aren’t on the hook for the whole of the contract, and at least one of those prospects probably will provide some non-negative value to an M’s team in the future.
I can’t see any way to spin this deal where — for the M’s at least — it isn’t made entirely of win.