Game 88, Rangers at Mariners

Jay Yencich · July 12, 2009 at 12:30 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

The lineups are the same as they were last night, but Baker also informs us that Chad Cordero is close to getting into a game and Jeff Zimmerman (surprise) has arm soreness. I’m sure one of you was wondering.

I’d suggest checking out the Futures Game too, where RF Tyson Gillies and 3B Alex Liddi are batting two and three for the World Team, but they’re in the midst of a rain delay. Gillies grounded out in his first at-bat, but Liddi drew a walk and the World Team has scored two runs off of former Mariners prospect RHP Chris Tillman.

Alternatively, there is a Jerry Brewer article on pitching coach Rick Adair that could help pass those long forty minutes until the game starts.

Comments

269 Responses to “Game 88, Rangers at Mariners”

  1. hark on July 12th, 2009 12:52 pm

    “Lineups are the same”, meaning Rob Johnson “merited” more playing time with one [expletive deleted] home run last night. And that “more playing time” comes in a day game after a night game, which is when you usually use your backup catcher to spell your starter. [expletive deleted]. This is Wak’s one glaring blindspot. And I can’t stand it anymore.

  2. Big Bob on July 12th, 2009 12:54 pm

    Oh well it isn’t like Kenji is tearing it up either.

  3. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 12:59 pm

    Rainy July Sunday… tailor-made for baseball on TV. Yay!

  4. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:01 pm

    Big Bob-

    No, Kenji hasn’t been tearing it up. But it’s not like he’s had the playing time. Going into last night (i.e., not including last night), here are the stats:

    Offense: G – PA – AB – AVG – OBP – SLG – BB% – K%
    Rob Johnson 44 151 136 .199 .262 .316 7.5% 27.9%
    Kenji Johjima 33 124 118 .254 .285 .373 3.3% 7.6%
    Advantage Kenji Kenji Kenji Rob Kenji

    Defense: G – Inn – PB – WP – CS – E – CS%
    Rob Johnson 44 362.1 21 3 9 3 30% .990
    Kenji Johjima 33 277.0 2 6 16 1 52% .996
    Advantage Kenji Rob Kenji Kenji Kenji

    Advantage Johjima: 8/10
    Advantage Johnson: 2/10

    So Rob has started twelve more games the Kenji, and is getting another start this afternoon. This 50-50 split for catchers is ridiculous, especially when Kenji is demonstrably better than Rob. Great? No. Better? Yes.

  5. Jay Yencich on July 12th, 2009 1:02 pm

    “Lineups are the same”, meaning Rob Johnson “merited” more playing time with one [expletive deleted] home run last night. And that “more playing time” comes in a day game after a night game, which is when you usually use your backup catcher to spell your starter. [expletive deleted].

    Perhaps this was the reasoning involved?

    Actually, that’s a bit mean for one, and for another I don’t like XKCD that much in the first place, though extrapolating is one of my favorite pastimes.

    I don’t see anything suggesting Kenji is injured, so the whole day/night thing is a bit curious.

  6. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 1:03 pm

    I’m getting a little tired of Rob Johnson too (okay, more than a little) but if vastly overvaluing catcher defense (or the illusion thereof) is this organization’s only blind spot, I can live with that.

  7. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:04 pm

    Jay–

    I love XKCD…I’d figure the statheads at USSM would be all over it. But, yeah, that is a bit mean.

  8. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:07 pm

    I’m getting a little tired of Rob Johnson too (okay, more than a little) but if vastly overvaluing catcher defense (or the illusion thereof) is this organization’s only blind spot, I can live with that.

    I’m partially using the USSM threads to vent my general frustration with the everyday fans in my life who think Johnson is good for the team and better to play than Kenji. Everyone here knows it, so I’m preaching to the choir…but yeesh. Really, Wak…he’s so, so good at 95% of his managerial decisions.

  9. Big Bob on July 12th, 2009 1:12 pm

    I would rather have Johnson out there for his game calling especially with certain pitchers, Bedard being one of them. For offense I would much rather see Kenji out there since he is more of a threat to pop one out or do something productive.

  10. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 1:19 pm

    Oh great we get Krueger doing color.

  11. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 1:20 pm

    I like this notion of “Irish luck” being associated with a guy born in Minnesota. I’m of Irish descent and have an Irish last name, yet oddly I have not been associated throughout my life with the luck of the Irish.

  12. G-Germ on July 12th, 2009 1:20 pm

    On a side note, can Krueger please stop calling Langerhans “Langerhaus”?

  13. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:21 pm

    Dang, sad news guys

    “eric bedard will never be able to throw 250-300 innings”- dave sims

    yeeeeesh

  14. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 1:22 pm

    good pitch Bedard…don’t let the ump throw you off!

  15. Liam on July 12th, 2009 1:22 pm

    Sims talking about Bedard’s IP, that’s he’s not going to be a 250-300 IP guy, but expects 200 IP from him. What is that based on? The most he’s ever had was 196.1 in 2006.

  16. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:24 pm

    I would rather have Johnson out there for his game calling[...]

    …do we need to have a discussion in the game thread about cERA and how it’s meaningless? Even if you wanted to talk cERA, Kenji has posted a cERA of right around 5 for all three full seasons of his career, and is doing the same this year. He sucked offensively in ’08 (we all know it, Hell, the most casual of fans knows it without looking at stats), sure, but in ’06 and ’07–both of which are arguably among the best seasons the M’s have ever seen from any catcher (when building the all-Mariners team, Dave and Derek pitted ’06 Kenji against ’96 Dan Wilson)–his defense was identical.

    So really the argument from a catcher’s defense and game calling perspective (even if you accept cERA) is bunk. Kenji is the same catcher now as he was then. The question is: can he be the same hitter after ’08? Don’t know. But he’s better than Rob.

    Hell, I’ll give you Rob’s cERA stat:

    Advantage Johjima: 8/11
    Advantage Johnson: 3/11

    Kenji’s still better. Not great, but better.

    “Game calling” is such a crappy abstraction. It’s not real stat.

  17. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 1:24 pm

    Wouldn’t be a Bedard 1st inning without throwing 25 pitches.

  18. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:25 pm

    well, this looks like its going to be another 90 pitch 4 inning start.

    I’d say trave value going down but uhh, we just traded Yuniesky Betancourt for something, so…

  19. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 1:26 pm

    Beauteous.

  20. Scottdids on July 12th, 2009 1:27 pm

    That wasn’t as smooth as usual, but thank you Franklin!

  21. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:27 pm

    I love you, D TAFT. Unbridled man love.

  22. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:27 pm

    Tracking the game on Fangraphs and Gameday. One word: ugh… both walks came after getting ahead in the count (0-2 to Hamilton and 1-2 to Young). Hideous.

  23. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 1:27 pm

    Guti! I have a total man-crush on you!

  24. Mike G. on July 12th, 2009 1:27 pm

    Death to Sinking Lining Things!(?)

  25. G-Germ on July 12th, 2009 1:28 pm

    “Death to Flying Things” strikes again!

  26. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 1:28 pm

    And I’d prefer to have a catcher who can actually catch the ball, instead of there being so many ‘wild pitches’ and I’d like someone who could throw base stealers out.

    Very nice, defense.

    They sent Morrow down and now we have Bedard to take his place walking the tightrope and 75 pitches in four innings.

  27. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 1:29 pm

    I wonder what Gutierriez’s CERA is?

  28. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 1:29 pm

    Langer HANS (like hands without the d)…Krueger wtf??

  29. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:29 pm

    Ok, i gotta ask, who in the hell are the morons who voted for a mid july game, over the 19 inning Boston epic. Fan cards need to be taken away

  30. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 1:30 pm

    Man, that was an awesome catch.

    Nice to have the defense bail Bedard out after the awful call on the curve to Young.

    Gutierrez not being at least an ASG reserve is criminal.

  31. Nate on July 12th, 2009 1:30 pm

    way to go franklin. every damn bit as good as hitting a solo, maybe even a 2-run HR.

    and you can keep doing that too.

  32. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 1:34 pm

    J. Lo! More of the same!

  33. Nate on July 12th, 2009 1:34 pm

    Jose, sweet.

  34. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:34 pm

    Speed rocks

  35. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:34 pm

    Woo Lopez! (Man, that Ichiro! is so selfish…getting on base and scoring and stuff.)

  36. ayoon on July 12th, 2009 1:35 pm

    Krueger…”Lopez, one of the quickest bats in baseball.”

    Did I miss something?

  37. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 1:36 pm

    I’m sorry, Yuni, but it’s so great to know that if Griffey walks you won’t come up swinging at the first pitch.

  38. Scottdids on July 12th, 2009 1:37 pm

    This Nippert guy doesn’t look very good at all. Hope they can score a few before he’s pulled.

  39. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:37 pm

    I’m sorry, Yuni, but it’s so great to know that if Griffey walks you won’t come up swinging at the first pitch.

    No worries, Lauren. We still have Johnson and Cedeno in the lineup. Have faith!

  40. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:37 pm

    I think what Krueger meant was Lopez, one of the quickest AT bats in baseball.

    Ok, no he didn’t, but I tried to cover for idiocracy.

  41. msb on July 12th, 2009 1:38 pm

    Good heavens, I completely forgot about the Futures Game.

  42. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 1:39 pm

    I really wish we could get away with upgrading the DH spot.

    I know it’s not going to happen, but it’d be nice to have a DH who has a baseball skill other than drawing walks.

  43. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 1:39 pm

    Krueger likes to hear himself talk. At least Blowers doesn’t just spew nonsense.

  44. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:40 pm

    Krueger likes to hear himself talk. At least Blowers doesn’t just spew nonsense.

    Rally fries are tasty.

  45. vern on July 12th, 2009 1:40 pm

    Do you think Krueger could keep talking with a fork stuck in his soft palette?

  46. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 1:41 pm

    talking about Langerhans, saying it was another great find by Zuridniek…hmmm, me thinks Jack Z reads USS Mariner….

  47. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 1:41 pm

    No worries, Lauren. We still have Johnson and Cedeno in the lineup. Have faith!

    And from your lips to that dirty little baseball devil on Johnson’s shoulder.

  48. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 1:42 pm

    Two straight walks and Johnson is first pitch swinging.

  49. hark on July 12th, 2009 1:43 pm

    My Gameday is lagging (I still see an 0-2 count on Guti)… what happened?

  50. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:43 pm

    Can Adam Moore have like…a super sim league development so we can get him up here instead of Rob Johnson? That would make me really happy.

  51. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 1:44 pm

    Wow someone actually hit Bedard’s curveball.

  52. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 1:44 pm

    haha did krueger just say walla walla was in idaho?

  53. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 1:45 pm

    Where is Mike Blowers?

  54. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:47 pm

    We may need D TAFT to make about 9 more of those plays if we want bedard to make it 5.

  55. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 1:49 pm

    I would like another 8-8-4 Double play please.

  56. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 1:51 pm

    Ask and you receive, Sam.

  57. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:52 pm

    I like that the 2 balls that have been hit hard have lead to 4 outs. In fact, i like it a lot.

  58. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 1:52 pm

    I will NOT play Match 4…not today…not ever

  59. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 1:54 pm

    And who the hell are the Sky? For whatever reason WNBA basketball hasnt cought on in Virginia Beach.

  60. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:00 pm

    3 forfeits..

    Disco night in Chicago.
    Bear bottle night in Cleveland, I think…

    And I seem to remember a baseball night…

  61. vern on July 12th, 2009 2:00 pm

    Lopez got out of the way…doesn’t want to be traded to KC.

  62. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:00 pm

    Bedard got smoked on that

  63. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:01 pm

    6 pitches.

    If Bedard can do that the rest of the game, he MIGHT make it to the 7th.

  64. TheMsfan on July 12th, 2009 2:01 pm

    Ladies and gentleman, hell has officially froze over. A six pitch inning for Eric Bedard.

  65. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 2:01 pm

    I didn’t even realize the season was going on, TheMsfan, until I saw that ad. Not a good sign.

    Why are our on-air guys OBSESSED with Young moving from short to third? They’ve mentioned it a couple of times every game of the series.

  66. naviomelo on July 12th, 2009 2:02 pm

    Here’s an interesting thought. Would Bedard bring back more in a trade than Yuni did?

  67. msb on July 12th, 2009 2:02 pm

    Not to mention the selective memory, with Young willingly making the move…

  68. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:03 pm

    Lopez got out of the way…doesn’t want to be traded to KC.

    The universal truth, no one wants to get traded to Kansas City.

    It’s just like what OKC will become in the NBA.

  69. Nate on July 12th, 2009 2:04 pm

    I really wish we could get away with upgrading the DH spot.
    I know it’s not going to happen, but it’d be nice to have a DH who has a baseball skill other than drawing walks.

    dangit Jeff, I’ve been purposely avoiding looking into this… I mean, it’s the only jersey I’ve ever bought! but I guess I couldn’t gloss over my suspicions any longer…

    yup, that’s not so good.

  70. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:06 pm

    I wish we could bat only 6 people.

  71. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 2:08 pm

    Another freakin’ mention of Young!

    I guess it’s the thing where they’re puzzled by something but can’t be bothered to do any research. Because, Young has a Gold Glove at SS! Why would anyone do that!?

    It’s sort of like listening to play by play guys for other teams when they’re playing the Mariners and seeing how many things they get wrong, usually involving Ichiro.

    But they all know that he could hit a homerun anytime if he wanted to.

  72. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 2:10 pm

    Sims just said that we are “locked in a good pitcher’s duel..” Aren’t we always in a pitcher’s duel??

  73. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:11 pm

    Aren’t we always in a pitcher’s duel??

    I tend to think our pitcher is always in a duel with our lineup more than with the other pitcher.

  74. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:11 pm

    dangit Jeff, I’ve been purposely avoiding looking into this… I mean, it’s the only jersey I’ve ever bought! but I guess I couldn’t gloss over my suspicions any longer…

    yup, that’s not so good.

    Pure dollar value, Griffey isn’t that bad.

    Yes, its not a good spot to be in, but considering we have massive holes at SS, 2B, and C, its probably near the middle of priorities.

  75. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 2:11 pm

    And when they’re not yammering about Young, they’re going on and on about Hamilton’s drug use.

    I’m still emotionally scarred by Sims story of checking out all of Hamilton’s tats in the locker room.

  76. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:11 pm

    Hannihanns first Error as an M. He is 633494729 from breaking Yuni’s Record.

  77. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:12 pm

    I miss beltre

  78. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:13 pm

    In terms of wOBA, Griffey is surprisingly right in the middle of the pack of AL DH’s. 6th out of 11 at .332.

  79. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:14 pm

    I got my hopes up. I thought Cedeno was going off because he was injured.

  80. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:16 pm

    In terms of wOBA, Griffey is surprisingly right in the middle of the pack of AL DH’s. 6th out of 11 at .332.

    As much as OBP (and by extension, wOBA) is important for judging hitters, DH’s are made for the H part (hitting), i.e. SLG and AVG (and RBI). Griffey’s middle-of-the-pack wOBA isn’t that reassuring considering what we’re actually paying him for…which isn’t to walk. It’s to hit.

  81. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:18 pm

    Bedard is freaking killing me.

    Striking out and walking people isn’t really helpful if we gotta bring Batista in in the 5th.

  82. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:21 pm

    Funny, I thought the point of the DH was for offense. When Edgar was our DH, I thought that gaudy > .400 OBP, was a plus, I didn’t realize he was cheating us by taking those walks.

  83. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:21 pm

    phew.

  84. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 2:21 pm

    I think we should just let the first 2 guys on everytime so we can at least save Bedards pitchcount.

  85. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 2:21 pm

    i say we trade bedard after the break and get a bat at lf or ss

  86. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 2:22 pm

    Dammit Yankees! I’m actually rooting for you today!

  87. Bremerton guy on July 12th, 2009 2:23 pm

    Griffey’s middle-of-the-pack wOBA isn’t that reassuring considering what we’re actually paying him for…which isn’t to walk. It’s to hit.

    Griffey is tied with Gutierrez, in 50 less ABs, for third on the team in HRs. He’s not on fire, but he is doing some hitting. And every time he comes up he’s a threat.

  88. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:25 pm

    just wait for 3 straight strikeouts now.

  89. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:26 pm

    Funny, I thought the point of the DH was for offense. When Edgar was our DH, I thought that gaudy > .400 OBP, was a plus, I didn’t realize he was cheating us by taking those walks.

    Except his walks also came with an AVG over .300 for the vast majority of his career, and over .260 right down to the end, with a SLG that only dipped below .400 in the last year of his career. In short, his walks were great, but we paid him to hit.

    I like Griffey’s OBP and wOBA. But walks are not what we pay him for. Seriously.

  90. Nate on July 12th, 2009 2:27 pm

    please don’t GIDP…
    please don’t GIDP…
    please don’t GIDP…
    please don’t GIDP…

  91. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:28 pm

    Griffey is tied with Gutierrez, in 50 less ABs, for third on the team in HRs. He’s not on fire, but he is doing some hitting. And every time he comes up he’s a threat.

    I’m not a huge advocate for divorcing Junior. But exclusively using wOBA as a measure of a DH’s production instead of hitting and run production is silly. That’s all I’m arguing against.

  92. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:28 pm

    pitchers still fear Griffey. You can tell by the way they pitch him, they still go away or inside. He gets much less pitches to hit than our other hitters, which is also why he walks so much.

  93. naviomelo on July 12th, 2009 2:28 pm

    I like Griffey’s OBP and wOBA. But walks are not what we pay him for. Seriously.

    He’s paid for offensive production. Walks are a big part of that.

  94. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:29 pm

    That’s terrible. We have 3 guys in our lineup that are batting sub .200.

  95. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 2:29 pm

    there is one strikeout

  96. vern on July 12th, 2009 2:29 pm

    Poor Rob, under .200 again.

  97. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 2:29 pm

    Whatever else you can say, Kenji would have made contact there. We needed someone to make contact.

  98. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:29 pm

    I despise the bottom of our lineup

  99. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 2:30 pm

    there is one strikeout. why didnt he bunt the runners over. does wak really think that his one homerun last night is enough to let him swing away

  100. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:30 pm

    That’s terrible. We have 3 guys in our lineup that are batting sub .200.

    at least we have 3 starters with era’s under 3

  101. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 2:31 pm

    Derek Holland is 22, but he looks about 17.

  102. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 2:32 pm

    For once, the head-first slide doesn’t kill us.

  103. Nate on July 12th, 2009 2:32 pm

    headfirst dive at first is safe?
    that may be the first time I’ve heard of that.

  104. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:32 pm

    Just. Stop. That. Cedeno.

  105. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    wow. that was lucky as crap.

    Will anyone want to start the chant now?

    ICHIRO ICHIRO ICHIRO!!!!!

  106. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    please ichiro its not often you have men on base for you to drive in.

  107. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    Don’t know if that should be considered a hit.

  108. Liam on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    Why is Ronny Cedeño still diving into first base? That’s at least the third time he’s done that.

  109. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    headfirst dive at first is safe?
    that may be the first time I’ve heard of that.

    you don’t remember Joey Cora’s where he slid sideways into first?

  110. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    Cedeno’s really going to kill himself one day with these headfirst slides into first.

    Or else a pitcher’s going to headhunt for hurting their first baseman.

  111. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 2:33 pm

    “does wak really think that his one homerun last night is enough to let him swing away”

    With just about every other part of managing, Wak is great. But he is in man-love with Rob Johnson. So yes, he probably did think that one homerun last night was enough to let him swing away.

  112. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 2:34 pm

    Oops, I wasn’t meaning to start the Griffey discussion again. My bad.

    But anyway, he’s certainly not the black hole Vidro was, and does add some value to the team. And there definitely are other places we should be trying to find upgrades for, first.

    I just hope we’re not looking at his limited production and saying “yeah, that’s good enough.” A .332 wOBA from the DH position isn’t that great; Griffey’s been worth .3 WAR so far this season.

    And he’s certainly no Edgar; tossing out 2004, Edgar’s WORST wOBA as a full-time DH was .380.

  113. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:36 pm

    Huh. I’m not sure whose side Jeff is taking with that comment…

  114. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 2:36 pm

    Ichiro!

  115. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:36 pm

    SAFE!!!!

  116. Nate on July 12th, 2009 2:37 pm

    bases loaded infield single? who else can you count on in that situation? nobody but Ichiro!!

  117. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 2:37 pm

    “With just about every other part of managing, Wak is great. But he is in man-love with Rob Johnson. So yes, he probably did think that one homerun last night was enough to let him swing away.”

    i just do not understand this thing wak has for johnson he is sub par offensively and defensively he his around average. it just drives me crazy. has he given up on johjima already.

  118. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 2:37 pm

    when was the last time the m’s had a grand slam?

  119. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 2:37 pm

    Ichiro has very shapely calves, I must say as we can see with his extension on that replay.

  120. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:37 pm

    But exclusively using wOBA as a measure of a DH’s production instead of hitting and run production is silly. That’s all I’m arguing against.

    Then maybe you need to read up on what wOBA measures, it is specifically designed to measure run production, and then scaled to match ranges with OBP.

  121. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:38 pm

    Wak was a weak hitting catcher who knew a ton about the game.

    Rob Johnson is the same player. Wak like him, because Rob Johnson IS him.

    But Rob Johnson now has something Wak never had… A MLB home run

  122. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 2:38 pm

    How many hits does it take for the M’s to score a run?

  123. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:38 pm

    39 infield hits!?!?! that is outrageous

  124. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:39 pm

    I hope Branyan doesn’t cheat us by taking a walk here.

    Damn.

  125. jld on July 12th, 2009 2:39 pm

    I’m feeling some bro-mance for Ichiro on that bases loaded infield single.

  126. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:39 pm

    Easiest RBI in baseball.

  127. Nate on July 12th, 2009 2:39 pm

    there we go. good eye Russ.

    mr. RBI leader is the one to hit the slam.

  128. Jay Yencich on July 12th, 2009 2:39 pm

    The confluence of events that brought about these runs is nothing short of stupid.

    But it pleases me.

  129. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 2:39 pm

    Bases loaded walk is still better than a grand slam, particularly when the baserunner belongs to another pitcher.

    Now here’s our RBI guy! WHOO-HOOT!

  130. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:40 pm

    Easiest RBI in baseball.

  131. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:40 pm

    And I don’t doubt that eventually Rob Johnson will be an MLB manager some day, if he wants to be.

    Of course, I’m a former catcher, and we have to keep together.

  132. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 2:40 pm

    Lopez’s stats with the bases loaded are amazing. No grand slams, but he’s batting .480.

  133. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:41 pm

    what the crap was that lopez?

  134. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 2:42 pm

    I’m not really taking a side, Hark; Griffey is fine for now, but there’s no reason we shouldn’t be trying to get better at the position if we can.

    That being said, I know a lot of people are enjoying the Griffey Farewell Tour, so if the team sticks with him it won’t be the end of the world. He’s been an average DH against the rest of the league, which is a lot better than I was expecting.

    But his value is almost tied entirely to his ability to draw walks, and while walks are valuable, their run value is the lowest of any event that gets you on base (excluding IBBs) according to this chart.

    Walks help you some, but not as much as actual hits.

  135. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:42 pm

    defensively [Rob Johnson] is around average.

    Defensively, Rob Johnson is straight up terrible.

  136. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 2:42 pm

    That was one of the most un-impressive way to score 2 runs but hey, ill take it.

  137. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 2:42 pm

    “i just do not understand this thing wak has for johnson”

    I am thinking Rob Johnson reminds Wak of himself and he is trying to give Johnson the “big chance” Wak never got. Even though Johnson’s play doesn’t deserve it.

    Alternatively, the M’s might be trying to build Rob Johnson “defense” hype (even though the numbers don’t support it), in hopes JZ can pull another “Yuni for talent” type trade. Perhaps trading Johnson to KC for their best hitting prospect. ;-)

  138. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:42 pm

    Offspeed low and inside is Lopez’s weakness.

  139. jld on July 12th, 2009 2:43 pm

    Easiest RBI in baseball.

    Tell that to Yuni.

  140. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 2:44 pm

    Hannahan is playing like crap today

  141. Sam W. on July 12th, 2009 2:45 pm

    Hannihanns second Error as an M. He is 633494728 from breaking Yuni’s Record.

  142. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 2:45 pm

    By the way, thanks to Tom Tango for the run values link I used; I hope I used it properly!

  143. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 2:47 pm

    Argh, Yankees have the bases loaded with no outs and can’t score against the Angels. Fuckin’ ARod.

  144. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 2:47 pm

    Dear Hannahan, please stop showcasing your juggling skills everytime you touch the ball.

  145. jefffrane on July 12th, 2009 2:47 pm

    Ichiro!

  146. vern on July 12th, 2009 2:48 pm

    When Ichiro goes into that little corner that you can’t see on tv, I always imagine there is a recliner or a desk or a refrigerator in there.

  147. naviomelo on July 12th, 2009 2:48 pm

    When Ichiro goes into that little corner that you can’t see on tv, I always imagine there is a recliner or a desk or a refrigerator in there.

    This comment made my day. Thanks!

  148. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:49 pm

    Obviously the best offensive players get walks and hits. My point was that Griffey is in the middle of the pack (which is as much as anybody expected) in terms of wOBA which is:

    (0.72xNIBB + 0.75xHBP + 0.90x1B + 0.92xRBOE + 1.24x2B + 1.56x3B + 1.95xHR) / PA

    And no I don’t think we should come up with a new stat for DH’s only.

  149. aaronsawyer1 on July 12th, 2009 2:53 pm

    If Griffey had been hustling he might have made that with the bobble.

  150. hark on July 12th, 2009 2:54 pm

    And no I don’t think we should come up with a new stat for DH’s only.

    Who said we should?

  151. Paul B on July 12th, 2009 2:55 pm

    Death to flying things glides under the ball.

    I love our outfield.

  152. henryv on July 12th, 2009 2:55 pm

    DEATH TO FLYING THINGS.

  153. vern on July 12th, 2009 2:56 pm

    If Griffey had been hustling he might have made that with the bobble.

    If Griffey had been running in 1995….

  154. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 2:59 pm

    Sorry Hark, I guess I misunderstood you:

    But exclusively using wOBA as a measure of a DH’s production instead of hitting and run production is silly.

    But since wOBA measures expected run production, I guess that leaves us with using BA?

  155. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:04 pm

    are you fucking kidding me

  156. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 3:04 pm

    LOL batista you suck

  157. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 3:04 pm

    Batista is so efficient.

  158. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 3:04 pm

    I hate Batista.

  159. sniper61 on July 12th, 2009 3:04 pm

    Really? Come on Batista Wak took Bedard out for a reason

  160. 95Ms on July 12th, 2009 3:05 pm

    one pitch, ouch

  161. Paul B on July 12th, 2009 3:05 pm

    Hey Batista! Nice Pitch!

    I guess we should blame those homers on Johnson, right? CERA and all that.

  162. jefffrane on July 12th, 2009 3:05 pm

    Someone tell Batista this isn’t BP.

  163. henryv on July 12th, 2009 3:06 pm

    I think Bedard deserves part of Cruz’s home run.

    We shouldn’t be putting in our worn out, has been long relievers in the 6th, if he’s only given up 2 runs on 3 hits.

    I will be so glad to be rid of him.

  164. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 3:06 pm

    F***ing Batista. You suck.

  165. Bremerton guy on July 12th, 2009 3:07 pm

    I’m watching on Gameday. Why did Bedard come out?

  166. henryv on July 12th, 2009 3:08 pm

    I think these 3 innings are very important part of the season…

  167. naviomelo on July 12th, 2009 3:09 pm

    I’m watching on Gameday. Why did Bedard come out?

    He’d thrown 93 pitches, was on a 90-100 pitch count, just given up the HR to Blalock, and Cruz, a RH hitter, was up.

  168. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 3:09 pm

    You can use wOBA, but you need to look at it within the context of the position.

    In this particular case, WAR might be more illuminating since it includes a positional adjustment and wOBA doesn’t.

    Griffey is in the middle of the pack in WAR for DH’s, but DH is a pretty poor position WAR-wise so far this season. The highest DH on the WAR leaderboard is Adam Lind, and he’s at #45 behind Nyjer Morgan; Griffey is 140th. Several rotting corpses (Giambi, Ordonez) are dragging the position down. Lind is the only DH who has managed to be worth more than a win and a half so far this year.

  169. vern on July 12th, 2009 3:10 pm

    Why did Bedard come out?

    Because he’s a wiener.

  170. kenshabby on July 12th, 2009 3:10 pm

    I look into my crystal ball and see Bedard being an effective relief pitcher two to three seasons down the road.

  171. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:12 pm

    it must be our lucky day. cedeno with a double!!!

  172. hark on July 12th, 2009 3:13 pm

    But since wOBA measures expected run production, I guess that leaves us with using BA?

    wOBA, OBP, AVG…they all present information filtered through a layer of abstraction. wOBA is a useful tool, sure, but when you’re looking at “.332″, it doesn’t tell you how said player reached “.332″. It doesn’t tell you if it was an abnormally large amount of walks valued at 0.72 or a small amount of HR’s valued at 1.95.

    I’m arguing that for a DH, the underlying figures are key to judging the value of their wOBA. I’m arguing pure statistics here. No abstractions at all. Since a DH by definition has no value in the field, he has to be judged purely by offense. And because of that, you have to look at a few underlying stats…

    SLG, for example, tells us how many bases he gains per plate appearance–which should inform us whether that wOBA is from inflated walk totals or xBH totals. The two must be combined to truly measure a DH’s worth.

  173. henryv on July 12th, 2009 3:14 pm

    I look into my crystal ball and see him being the pain in the ass rude neighbor who steals your baseballs when you hit them into his yard, and causes problems for city employees.

  174. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 3:18 pm

    They took Bedard out because he was on a 90 pitch count. He was at 93 pitches, after he struck out Byrd.

    I’d like to blame Batista for the HR, but look at that pitch on Gameday, 93 mph up in the zone on the outside third of the plate. It was the type of pitch you want the hitter swinging at, and most of the time it would be a harmless fly ball to the opposite field.

  175. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:22 pm

    How many times do you think the announcers have said “he makes this park look small”. that’s at least twice today

  176. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 3:22 pm

    I’d like to blame Batista for the HR, but look at that pitch on Gameday, 93 mph up in the zone on the outside third of the plate. It was the type of pitch you want the hitter swinging at, and most of the time it would be a harmless fly ball to the opposite field.

    Yeah, I looked at it too and kind of came to the same conclusion. I still think he sucks though.

  177. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 3:22 pm

    “93 mph up in the zone”

    Not a good way to make a living against Texas

  178. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:22 pm

    i guess branyan decided that he will get one home run and one single every 15 – 20 at bats

  179. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:24 pm

    “one single or one home run”

  180. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 3:24 pm

    It doesn’t tell you if it was an abnormally large amount of walks valued at 0.72 or a small amount of HR’s valued at 1.95.

    Uhh, that’s why they’re weighted with the relative values based on runs expected. The one quarrel I have with wOBA, is that it gives the batter no credit for a IBB, and it does give the batter credit for reaching base on an error. Sure you can also look at slugging, and HR’s, but if what you are concerned with is offensive production then it is the best measurement.

  181. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:28 pm

    now that griffey’s out we will prob get to see shelton if we get around again

  182. hark on July 12th, 2009 3:30 pm

    No, Kazinski, you still misunderstand. Say I have 200 plate appearances and 100 walks. My wOBA is .360–pretty good, right? Not great, but pretty good. It’s higher than Griffey’s, swell. But none of these walks came with the bases loaded, so no runs scored off of them.

    Now in those same 200 plate appearances, another player has 37 HR. He’s wOBA is also .360. 20 of these HR’s were with runners on base.

    Same wOBA…but without looking at the underlying stats, without looking at SLG or the raw number of HR’s or the RBI, the two look like the same hitter. This is why underlying stats are critical to judging DH production.

  183. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 3:31 pm

    There is a good example of my argument on errors in wOBA, scoring that as a hit helped Griffy’s BA of course, but it actually hurt his wOBA, (0.90 for a single vs 0.92RBOE).

  184. Paul B on July 12th, 2009 3:32 pm

    i guess branyan decided that he will get one home run and one single every 15 – 20 at bats

    Branyan:

    K%, 2009 33%, career 39%
    HR/FB, 2009 23.4%, career 22.2%
    FB%, 2009 48.7%, career 49.1%
    LD%, 2009 20.7%, career 20.8%

    We’re getting what should have been expected.

    Although his BABIP is a little higher than his career numbers.

  185. Paul B on July 12th, 2009 3:33 pm

    Shelton hitting for Langerhans. Does that mean Wlad will be in left?

  186. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:34 pm

    clutch hit shelton

  187. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 3:34 pm

    PH Kenji please

  188. 95Ms on July 12th, 2009 3:35 pm

    shelton, my new best friend, nice to me ya

  189. Paul B on July 12th, 2009 3:35 pm

    That answers that question, Wlad in to run.

  190. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 3:35 pm

    heh, never mind.

  191. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 3:35 pm

    Where’s my Ron Washington reaction shot to that fielding???

  192. hark on July 12th, 2009 3:35 pm

    There is a good example of my argument on errors in wOBA, scoring that as a hit helped Griffy’s BA of course, but it actually hurt his wOBA, (0.90 for a single vs 0.92RBOE).

    This is true. For the record, I’m not arguing AGAINST wOBA. It’s useful. But it has its limitations, and they really shine through in the case of a DH who doesn’t contribute defensively. Because we want a DH to drive in runs as well as getting on base…preferably with xBH, not walks.

    As for the game–woo, 5-3! (Boo Rob Johnson…more playing time, [expletive deleted]!><)

  193. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:35 pm

    heh, that’s two games in a row that johnson’s done something useful

  194. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:36 pm

    great now johnson is def our every day catcher lol

  195. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 3:37 pm

    Ok, Hark you’ve convinced me, BA and RBI’s are the best way to measure run production.

    Though I did just notice the result of Griffey getting on base on that infield hit was another run on the board there.

  196. Mike G. on July 12th, 2009 3:37 pm

    YES! Batista is in line for the win now. What an awesome stat!

  197. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:38 pm

    “well opportuned success spot there for mr. shelton” bahahahahaha, did anyone else just hear that?

  198. 95Ms on July 12th, 2009 3:38 pm

    “well opportuned success spot right there” – Kruger. What language is that pharase???

  199. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 3:40 pm

    Well, wOBA does a good job of measuring offensive value, like Kazinski says; but it still doesn’t have a positional adjustment, and a wOBA of .330 from a DH is only mediocre, regardless of how he gets there.

    What I’d love to see the team start doing, since we’ve managed to get less ridiculously right-handed, is start to move towards a model where they do a DH/1B rotation where they get Shelton into the mix there.

    While he’s not going to hit major league pitching for a nearly .400 wOBA like he did in Tacoma, I think the ZIPS projection of .345 is a bit pessimistic. I’d pencil him in for .360.

  200. Kazinski on July 12th, 2009 3:40 pm

    A true vulture win for Batista, comes in gives up the tying run, then (hopefully) gets the win when his team comes back and takes the lead.

  201. hark on July 12th, 2009 3:41 pm

    Ok, Hark you’ve convinced me, BA and RBI’s are the best way to measure run production.

    Oh, Kazinski, you still misunderstand, and it’s to the point of being annoying. You can’t toss (and I’m not tossing) wOBA. You have to look at it alongside other stats. wOBA is useless without context.

  202. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:41 pm

    2 days in a row for lowe. anyone else get the impression that we’re showcasing him for some scouts right now?

  203. vern on July 12th, 2009 3:41 pm

    “well opportuned success spot right there” – Kruger. What language is that pharase???

    Same language that values “clutch” as more valuable than golden ingots.

  204. 95Ms on July 12th, 2009 3:42 pm

    yay, I have my own language issues obviously

  205. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:44 pm

    “2 days in a row for lowe. anyone else get the impression that we’re showcasing him for some scouts right now?”

    what about bedard and lowe for sanchez and ian snell and maybe a prospect

  206. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:46 pm

    If we gave up Bedard for an aging middle infielder and snell I’d be extremely pissed. especially after how much we gave up for him last year

  207. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 3:46 pm

    2 outs in the ninth 5-4 angeles, with A-rod up. Last hope…

  208. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:47 pm

    snell has potential to be good does pitt have any good prospects to give

  209. hark on July 12th, 2009 3:47 pm

    If we gave up Bedard for an aging middle infielder and snell I’d be extremely pissed. especially after how much we gave up for him last year

    What he said.

  210. bilbo27 on July 12th, 2009 3:49 pm

    A-rod strikes out. U.S. California LA Angels of Anaheim on Earth in the Milky Way, win it. :-(

  211. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:49 pm

    snell is almost 28 years old with a 2-8 record, 5.36 era, 52/44 K/BB, and a 1.62 whip. If we’re trading bedard we need to get something better

  212. Scottdids on July 12th, 2009 3:50 pm

    Why would Pittsburgh want Bedard who is a free agent after the season?

  213. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:51 pm

    who do you think were trying to get. what about rios from toronto

  214. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:52 pm

    something like Lowe and Belentien for Sanchez would be more reasonable. We might need to add a little something to make it work

  215. WSU_Dave on July 12th, 2009 3:52 pm

    rizz and krueger are crushing hard on griff and sweeney

  216. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 3:52 pm

    mrw88, there’s this thing called punctuation and capitalization. It would make your posts sound less like the mumbled ramblings of a street person.

  217. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 3:53 pm

    Stop using won/loss records and WHIP to evaluate pitchers.

    But Scottdids is right, the Pirates don’t need Bedard. Now, if they would take Halman and Lowe…

    Honestly, I don’t see us trading Bedard unless we can use him to pry JJ Hardy away from the Brewers.

  218. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 3:54 pm

    What about Alex Rios?

  219. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 3:54 pm

    mrw88, there’s this thing called punctuation and capitalization.

    This, also. Rules are SLIGHTLY looser in game threads, but we still expect proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization. Get in the habit so your posts don’t start getting removed.

  220. Marinerz51 on July 12th, 2009 3:54 pm

    That was supose to read “Pry him from the Pirates.”

  221. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:55 pm

    Those were the stats I had readily available. I didn’t want to go more in-depth, because frankly, I didn’t need to. Snell has had a terrible year according to all metrics. Why get into more complicated metrics when the simple ones that everyone knows will suffice for the point I was making

  222. henryv on July 12th, 2009 3:56 pm

    Should’t Aardsma have the Law and Order song played when he comes in?

  223. 95Ms on July 12th, 2009 3:56 pm

    Yikes, maybe the angels are who we thought they were (even w/all the injuries)! I mean, we can still maybe take them, but come on already. That team still has balls of kryptonite it seems. Not good.

  224. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 3:56 pm

    what about the people’s court song?

  225. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 3:57 pm

    Rios is a very good player, but I don’t see the M’s targeting another outfielder – particularly a RH bat. I also don’t see the Jays being interested in moving him.

    Honestly, I don’t see us trading Bedard unless we can use him to pry JJ Hardy away from the Brewers.

    Now this I would love to see.

  226. naviomelo on July 12th, 2009 3:57 pm

    Why would Toronto trade Rios? Dave just wrote an outstanding article about Rios and his value on Fangraphs the other day. Read it.

  227. Scottdids on July 12th, 2009 3:58 pm

    What about Alex Rios?

    For Bedard? They have Rios who is on a decent contract and a great talent, even if he is underperforming a tbit, locked up for a few seasons. Why would they want to give him up when they’re probably out of it for a free agent at the end of the season?

    That said, I could see Bedard signing with Toronto at the end of the season as his hometown is only a few hours away.

  228. Nate on July 12th, 2009 3:58 pm

    you know, I like to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt when I can. and I’m not a professional sports announcer, but Sims just said (radio):
    “… in fact if the mariners win this game today, they’ll pick up a full game on the rangers.” that’s the quote to the best of my recollection.
    we need a collection of “mouth on autopilot” gems.

  229. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 3:59 pm

    Those were the stats I had readily available.

    The beauty of fangraphs is that everything is readily available.

  230. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 4:00 pm

    I don’t know, I’m not that impressed with Hardy… I think he’s slightly over-valued

  231. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 4:00 pm

    The only reason i could see the Jays doing that is to dump some salary if they dont trade roy.

    I could see JJ Hardy being traded though, opening the door for escobar.

  232. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 4:01 pm

    It’s his defense I’d be after.

  233. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 4:01 pm

    I know Jerbear, I just quickly google’d his name and threw together a post. this is a game thread, I wasn’t exactly planning on thinking through my post, I just put one together quickly

  234. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 4:04 pm

    D.A. is showing some good stuff tonight. Hes getting away from his fastball only approach.

  235. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 4:04 pm

    Man, what used to be the prevailing opinion on Aardsma around here? I guess this is a Putz-like case of an average reliever becoming something pretty nice?

  236. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 4:05 pm

    looking at his more advanced stats, it looks like Snell is actually regressing as he gets into his “prime” years

  237. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 4:05 pm

    holy crap! Filthy slider from Aardsma

  238. finndawg on July 12th, 2009 4:07 pm

    Does AA actually have 3 pitches? Looks like he has thrown a fastball, slider, and splitfinger?

  239. Nate on July 12th, 2009 4:08 pm

    c’mon Aaaaaaaardsma, you’re supposed to throw BB’s, not give up BB’s!

  240. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 4:08 pm

    I don’t know, I’m not that impressed with Hardy… I think he’s slightly over-valued

    He’s not; he was worth a total of almost 10 WAR combined in 2007 and 2008, and has 1.5 WAR so far this season.

    If anything, he’s UNDERvalued at this point, because Alcides Escobar wants his job and he’s having a slightly down year.

    He’s probably a 3-4 win player going forward, and he’s still reasonably young and doesn’t hit free agency for another year.

  241. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 4:08 pm

    Forget about snell then lol. What about something like Capps and Sanchez for lowe balentien and a prospect

  242. Nate on July 12th, 2009 4:08 pm

    that’s my boy!!
    called strike 3 for the win/save.

  243. Lauren, token chick on July 12th, 2009 4:08 pm

    Never mind, went and read the Aardsma post from June 23. Duh, Lauren.

    3 out of 4 from the Rangers. We kick ass.

  244. Marinerz51 on July 12th, 2009 4:08 pm

    As I could hit better than Ronny Cedeno, I can also call balls and strikes better than this ump.

  245. leon0112 on July 12th, 2009 4:09 pm

    46 wins at the All Star break. Pretty nice compared to expectations.

  246. Scottdids on July 12th, 2009 4:09 pm

    3 of 4. Good series! Now if the Angels will just slow down..

  247. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 4:09 pm

    It’s cool… I just love a good defensive SS, and even though he’s right handed, he’d be a big upgrade with the bat over anything we’ve seen at the position for a while.

    UZR/150 leaders at SS over the last 3 years:

    Hardy 12.5
    Wilson 9.3
    Rollins 8.7

    WAR leaders at SS over the last 3 years:

    Ramirez 17.5
    Rollins 12.3
    Reyes 11.8
    Hardy 11

  248. JerBear on July 12th, 2009 4:11 pm

    Also, what a great way to head into the break!

  249. Scottdids on July 12th, 2009 4:12 pm

    Forget about snell then lol. What about something like Capps and Sanchez for lowe balentien and a prospect

    Depends on who the prospect is, but with just Lowe and Balentien in the deal, it looks like giving trash for other’s treasures.

  250. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 4:13 pm

    Gillies just scored in the Futures game by singling, stealing to bases and getting home on a double play. Yes, he’s ready to be a Mariner and eventually replace Ichiro!

  251. UW10 on July 12th, 2009 4:15 pm

    does this series switch Z into a more “buying” mode. And let me set it straight that I don’t dislike Hardy, he’s a fine player, he’s just not “can’t miss” in my opinion. I haven’t looked at the advanced metrics, but it seems that at least offensively, he might have regressed a bit when he should be hitting his prime.

  252. mrw88 on July 12th, 2009 4:18 pm

    We almost lost Gillies to the St. Louis stands!

  253. juneau_fan on July 12th, 2009 4:18 pm

    Whoo! Gillies just crashed into the stands, ending up face down, trying to catch a foul ball.

    Watch out, kid. We need you to stay in one piece.

  254. kenshabby on July 12th, 2009 4:20 pm

    So we finish this dreaded 16-game stretch with a record of 9-7, two to three games better than most predictions. Not bad. Now that we’re likely not sellers, let’s see about that little hole at SS.

  255. rick m on July 12th, 2009 4:27 pm

    I know the consensus is that Cedeno is not an everyday shortstop, but he played well today and remember, this is what BP said about him during the offseason:

    Were he given a full time job, he’d not only provide plus defense, but a decent amount of sock and enough steals to chip in better than the slappy Felix Fermin types.

    As early as two years ago, we produced 23+ VORP in AAA. I’d like to see if he can get his mojo back.

  256. Big Bob on July 12th, 2009 4:33 pm

    46-42 is very impressive way to go into the all-star break.
    This team is for real, lets see what Dr. Z can do to shore up the offense.

  257. Big Bob on July 12th, 2009 4:34 pm

    Wow to think also how the M’s have 46 wins already after only winning 61 last year.

  258. Nate on July 12th, 2009 4:40 pm

    Good win guys!

    Allow me to be one of the first (today) to say:

    I hate the all-star game. No baseball until Thursday??

    You’re killing me!

  259. TomTuttle on July 12th, 2009 6:34 pm

    I hate the all-star game. No baseball until Thursday??

    What?!?!?! How can you hate the All-Star Game?

    1. Every player actually wears their team’s uniforms instead of some stupid all-star uniform used to make a couple extra bucks.

    2. Out of all the all-star games in all the professional sports leagues, this game is the one that most resembles a regular season game.

    3. It’s not on Versus.

    4. There’s usually always a special pre-game ceremony beforehand that’s meaningful and looks good on TV.

    5. WE’RE ACTUALLY PLAYING FOR SOMETHING! (home field advantage in the World Series) Maybe it isn’t the best way to decide home field for the World Series, sure. But hey, at least it means the All-Star Game is worth something.

    Go American League!

  260. joser on July 12th, 2009 7:30 pm

    5. WE’RE ACTUALLY PLAYING FOR SOMETHING! (home field advantage in the World Series)

    And this is where I start to have problems with the ASG (which I otherwise enjoy, FWIW). If it is going to “mean something” then both leagues should be able to field the best players: players chosen strictly by their performance rather than fan votes (in which case your starting AL CF would be Franklin Gutierrez, BTW) or selected by the two managers. If you’re going to allow the fans to stuff the ballot boxes to see their favorite players (whether they’re having particularly good years or not), that’s fine too — but then it shouldn’t “mean something.” Home field advantage in the World Series should not be indirectly decided by a popularity contest. The ASG is either an exhibition game full of fan favorites played for fun, or it’s a serious game with the best players deciding something important. Pick one.

  261. Breadbaker on July 12th, 2009 7:41 pm

    I have never understood the reasoning behind the home field advantage thing anyway. If I’m a Yankee, do I want the Red Sox to have home field advantage if they make the World Series. If I’m a Royal, why do I care at all, since I’m not going.

  262. Jeff Nye on July 12th, 2009 7:50 pm

    If the All-Star Game is going to affect post-season play, the mechanism for selecting players can’t be based on fan voting.

    It’s one of Bud Selig’s worst ideas, ever, and that’s saying something.

  263. Liam on July 12th, 2009 9:06 pm

    Alternating home field advantage between each league every year is not that great either.

    Having the All-Star game determine which league gets the extra home game in the World Series, should encourage fans to be more objective in choosing the best players. (Although they would presumably choose the worst players for the opposing league)

    If the All-Star game is going to determine post-season play, who should be selecting the players? I don’t know that there’s a good answer to that, as having a computer select the best player may not go over that well.

  264. BLYKMYK44 on July 12th, 2009 9:11 pm

    If it is genearally considered that the entire playoffs (which consist of many games) is more or less a crap shoot.

    Why wouldn’t the ASG be even more of a coin flip, regardless of who plays on each team?

    Their might be argument against having the ASG counting for home field advantage. But, I’m not really sure the fact that the “best” players don’t all make it really sways the outcome enough to complain about it.

    Not to mention that managers and players make just as many dumb selections as the fans do…

  265. naviomelo on July 12th, 2009 9:56 pm

    The World Series homefield advantage ought to just be determined on the aggregate record of interleague play. Everybody’s playing to win anyway, so it’d be easy. Let the all-star game be an exhibition and a break from real baseball.

  266. Nate on July 12th, 2009 10:27 pm

    What?!?!?! How can you hate the All-Star Game?

    ok, two things:
    one, I actually meant to type “break” instead of “game”. I hate the all-star break. I know the teams need the break etc. selfishly, I wanna watch baseball tomorrow. I’ll get over it.

    two, the actual game is really hard for me to buy into. I’d like to see Ichiro hit a HR in his first AB. Barring that, I don’t know how long he’ll play, who will pitch, is Felix in yet? Will he be back next inning? It’s way too segmented to feel like an actual game. I know it’s an ‘exhibition’, I don’t like exhibitions.

    That said, I’ll listen to someone trying to hit 8 home runs in the second round etc. Then I’ll tune into the start of the game Tue. (DON’T get me started on the eternal pre-game rituals) All the while, I’ll miss baseball and look forward to Thursday, Cleveland. Washburn, I believe.

  267. Breadbaker on July 13th, 2009 12:09 am

    Thursday, Cleveland. Washburn, I believe.

    Olson, actually.

  268. Paul B on July 13th, 2009 6:44 am

    It’s one of Bud Selig’s worst ideas, ever, and that’s saying something.

    The other part of it that is poor, is that there is no resolution to take if the game ends in a tie.

    My suggestion would be to allow each team to carry one extra pitcher. This pitcher would be told up front that he would only pitch if the game goes to extra innings (so that the manager would not be pressured to get him in the game in the 9th in order to use everyone). So, hey, enjoy the game and relax for 9 innings.

    Then if the game goes to extra innings, this pitcher would throw the 10th.

    If the 10th ends in a tie, then the game is called and the League that did not have home field advantage in the WS gets to have it in the current season.

  269. Willmore2000 on July 13th, 2009 7:43 am

    [use link button]

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