This Is Getting Fun
51-44 after a couple more one run wins. No, the win 2-1 plan isn’t going to work long term, but wins are wins, and the M’s are getting the games they badly need. Now, if the Twins could just go ahead and do a number on the Angels, that’d be nice.
How about Ryan Langerhans, by the way? Another hit and an HBP today, plus a couple more nice catches in center field. It really is amazing that he languished in Triple-A to start the season. Every team in baseball could use a good defensive outfielder who understands the strike zone and has some power. He’s close to a league average major league player, and the M’s got him for free. These are the kinds of pickups that good teams make.
The guy playing next to Langerhans, though? Less impressive. And no, I don’t mean Ichiro. Whether the M’s decide to go for it or not, they should still move Wladimir Balentien to someone who wants to give him a chance to learn how to hit something besides a fastball. He’s just totally lost on soft stuff, and even against a LH pitcher, he looked abysmal trying to hit anything that moves. With Langerhans here and Saunders coming, Balentien doesn’t have a future in this organization. Offer him to the Pirates for Ian Snell or the Nationals for Josh Willingham or something.
David Aardsma, June + July: 21 innings, 7 walks, 29 K. Yeah, he still gives up a lot of scary fly balls, but a 4.00 K/BB rate with no platoon split? That’s a relief ace.
And finally, Washburn. What else is there to say? Keep pitching well, Jarrod. It’s only good news for us.
Yes, MLB, Jerrod Washburn is still available for a reasonable price. Only nine days left! But contrary to previous reports, The Moose is NOT part of the deal.
Is Aardsma a free agent after this year? I thought he was, but did a quick search and sounds like he’s arb-eligible but not a free agent for several more years. We’re definitely lucky to have him.
Dave,
If we’re sincerely going to make a run, what’s your position on keeping Griffey/Sweeney as the DL tandem?
I would love me some Ian Snell for Wlad.
I think having Griffey/Sweeney as the DL tandem is an ideal solution.
Big Wins for the M’s. They are continuing to prove that good pitching will beat good hitting. Dave, I think you hit one of the nails right in the head… Wlad is not going anywhere, and he’ll bring us with him.
If Gutierrez heals up nicely and Beltre comes back in August like he is hoping (took ground balls yesterday), our line up is starting to come together.
If the M’s traded away Balentien (totally on board, by the way), who would they bring up? Is Saunders ready?
On Aardsma, isn’t it probable that he will regress eventually? Why not trade him for a few nice pieces the way we did with Putz, I’m sure there will be plenty of teams after him, with that attractive contract and those numbers. Come on, Philly, we know you want him, just give us your farm, and he’s yours.
Wlad for Snell, would that be possible? I would jump on that and then move Bedard and something else for JJ Hardy.
I think (and hope) that the Mariners won’t bring Saunders up until unless he’s going to be the starter. I’d rather see him playing full time and developing in the minors rather than sitting on the bench at the majors. I’d say he’s a September call up and our starter in LF next season.
I think if the Mariners have any shot this year we need Aardsma. Look at how many 1 run wins we’ve had this year. We need a solid closer to make a run at the west. If the Mariners traded the DA to me it would be a sure sign that they are throwing in the towel.
Oh, and the Langerhans pickup? Great deal. Jack Z deserves a bonus for that one. That was a brilliant move.
Would they call up Saunders if it meant him being behind Langerhans/Gutierrez/Ichiro and getting limited ABs?
I know the previous administration was against bringing up promising youngsters if it meant they would get few ABs. On the other hand, the team is in a pennant race (even if they are a few strides behind), and need all the offensive help they can get.
Probably because nearly every team already has had him — and the M’s are the first club he’s played well for?
Note that coming into today, he also was #9 on Bill James’ AL Cy Young list. (#1=KF)
The Pirates are what I like to call a “Bavasi organization.” Such as, if you make a trade with Bavasi, you have to assume you’re getting a good deal because Bavasi was on the other end. The Royals fall into this category, too.
“If the M’s traded away Balentien (totally on board, by the way), who would they bring up? Is Saunders ready?
‘I think (and hope) that the Mariners won’t bring Saunders up until unless he’s going to be the starter. I’d rather see him playing full time and developing in the minors rather than sitting on the bench at the majors. I’d say he’s a September call up and our starter in LF next season.’”
I agree. At the Rainiers we have Jerry Owens who has been hitting the ball recently and fits into a small ball mentality that you need to win 2-1 games. Also, Prentice Redman can come up and play part time.
If only some web baseball analyst had called out the fact that Langerhans was undervalued, part of the all undervalued Free Agent team, and would be a great injury pick-up for Chavez.
I was critical of the Aardsma bandwagon a few weeks ago but now I am getting sold on his ability to get batters out. The Red Sox could sure use a guy like him in their bullpen. The track team in the outfield can take care of the fly balls as long as he continues to miss bats the rest of the time.
That’s just not true. The Pirates are quite well run for the most part.
Would Saunders make that much of a difference though? He’s a very promising offensive players but most young guys struggle when they are first brought up. With the way Langerhans has been playing in LF I’d rather keep Saunders down at AAA.
Clement/Shelton please.
Sorry, I have Aardsma on my fantasy team. I don’t want him turned into a setup man any time soon. Plus, he seems to be able to throw the slider for a strike lately. That plus his plus-plus fastball is nasty.
I also haven’t followed Saunders. What kind of year is he having in AAA? What does he project to be at the MLB level?
I don’t know much about the Pirates but 15 straight (I think) years of losing baseball doesn’t seem to qualify as a well run organization. Maybe things are changing though.
Did some research:
Saunders is batting .303, 11HR, 29RBI, 51R, 24BB/40K in 55 games this year in AAA. The .377 OBP would be nice to have right now.
Huntington was hired less than two years ago. Teams can change their approach but it still takes time to change the results.
Unless you are Jack Z of course.
The Mariners were not in nearly as deep a hole as the Pirates.
aaron c, do you follow the Pirates? It seems like they are making a lot of weird trades lately. Always trading away major league talent for 2-3 minor leaguers. I don’t follow them at all so I really can’t make an opinion, but it does seem like from a casual fans point of view that they have no idea what they are doing.
I follow all of MLB pretty closely. I don’t know why you would consider a team such as the Pirates trading away Major League talent (generally average-ish players) for minor leaguers to be a sign that they don’t know what they are doing.
Well that’s my non-informed opinion. You really haven’t said anything to show how they are improving.
“aaron c, do you follow the Pirates? It seems like they are making a lot of weird trades lately. Always trading away major league talent for 2-3 minor leaguers. I don’t follow them at all so I really can’t make an opinion, but it does seem like from a casual fans point of view that they have no idea what they are doing.
aaron c. on July 23rd, 2009 3:07 pm aaron c, do you follow the Pirates? It seems like they are making a lot of weird trades lately. Always trading away major league talent for 2-3 minor leaguers. I don’t follow them at all so I really can’t make an opinion, but it does seem like from a casual fans point of view that they have no idea what they are doing.
I follow all of MLB pretty closely. I don’t know why you would consider a team such as the Pirates trading away Major League talent (generally average-ish players) for minor leaguers to be a sign that they don’t know what they are doing.
sodomojo2459 on July 23rd, 2009 3:10 pm Well that’s my non-informed opinion. You really haven’t said anything to show how they are improving.”
I was thinking about the LaRoche trade that they just made. With a young SS coming in, it looks like it made sense. The Pirates failed to secure Jack Wilson to an extension, so they brought in a guy.
I continue to be mystified why this team doesn’t move Balentien and bring up someone like Redman. Prentice isn’t your everyday answer in left, but he doesn’t need to be. And he’s got to somewhat better than Balentswing. Poor guy couldn’t hit a wrinkle if it hit him first.
I’m not saying he wouldn’t perform bettan than Griffey, but how much realistically can we expect him to improve that position? If Guti was done for a significant time, then yes. But he’s not.
I continue to be mystified why this team doesn’t move Balentien and bring up someone like Redman. Prentice isn’t your everyday answer in left, but he doesn’t need to be. And he’s got to be somewhat better than Balentswing. Poor guy couldn’t hit a wrinkle if it hit him first.
[off-topic]
Ian Snell would make a very nice #5 starter and can’t be worse then the options we currently have. And all we give up is Balentien? This is the making of another great deal by the landslide “MLB Executive of the Year”
With respect to Saunders, are the team’s concerns about his arm answered? Coming off of surgery there, there might be some questions the team wants answered before bringing him up to the majors.
There you go talking about the importance of defense. (Although he couldn’t be worse than Balentien)
Trading away MLB players making millions that aren’t going to help your next good team for prospects that might is a good start. They used advanced analysis, put a fair amount of money into scouting and they seem to have an excellent plan going forward.
None of this is exactly difficult information to come by though, so forgive me for assuming you were somewhat well informed.
Basically, if we want to actually do this thing, it won’t get done with those two platooning in the number 4 spot. Pure and simple. Clement/Shelton! Clement/Shelton!
aaron c., with all due respect, in this thread, you’re sounding like a condescending snot. You might consider something else that is “not exactly difficult information to come by”: namely, the judgment of a number of respected observers that the McLouth, Morgan and LaRoche deals have been unimpressive for Pittsburgh, to say the least. As Dave said about the Morgan deal, “The Pirates have made a series of head-scratching moves of late, and this one just continues that trend.”
What does this have to do with the Mariners, again?
I don’t really feel like making this any more contentious or further from the topic than it has become. Mea culpa, I suppose.
I’d welcome Snell for Balentien. But will the Pirates make that deal?
We’d be stealing Snell, really. I’d take him over our other current #5 starter options. Any day.
Honestly, if he’s gonna have a career…Wladimir Balentien needs to grow into being a big-leaguer and an org like Pittsburgh is probably the place to do it.
Another thought might be current Padres starter Chris Young. I always thought of him as a quality, about-ML-average starter…and the Padres need all kinds of help/young talent right about now. Not to infer they’d take Balentien….but I think a trade could be done between us and The Hated, Hated Padres…
The Angels need to lose about four of their next seven. I’m serious. Otherwise, it’s Fire Sale at Joe’s.
Mea culpa as well. In any case, I doubt we could get Snell for nothing but Balentien, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be the main piece in a deal. The nice thing about that is it would buffer dealing one or both of our FA-to-be starters for a good SS (still hoping for Brignac, somehow).
And really, the nice thing about all of this is that we have something to hope for — both that our FO will make a good deal (or good deals), and that the result of that will be a playoff berth. The former’s a lot likelier than the latter, but at least we can reasonably hope.
I think you all are crazy. Balentien is 25 years old, yeah he is having a hard time hitting the breaking ball right now but the way to learn is not on the bench. Langerhans early career stats show he struck out nearly a third of the time, it’s just this year in his 54 at bats the number has dropped to 1/5. I believe that Balentien plays good defense, he finished the year playing a lot of center last year. Yeah he had one rough game that cost us but am I the only one who remembers him leaping into the stands two games in a row to snag a ball?
I think that one thing people tend to overlook/undervalue when discussion GMs is the ability to work multi-team trades to their club’s advantage. Zduriencik did that well with the Putz/Valbuena trade, and it will be interesting to see if an opportunity develops at the deadline for him to do so again.
If a smart club has something you want and you don’t want to give them what they want for it, perhaps you can get it through a less-smart team for a more attractive price? Perhaps you can finagle a match where there wasn’t one before?
These are the kinds of things that separate competent GMs good and great GMs; the ability to find multiple solutions to a problem and pursue the most attractive path.
“with all due respect, in this thread, you’re sounding like a condescending snot”
It’s always humorous to me that “with all due respect” always follows with a statement that is anything but respectful.
Is there any trade value for Sweeney? It just seems that he has no place on this team anymore. Trade, cut, whatever. You have a very rich Johjima on the bench that can get the RH DH platoon done about the same as Sweeney and that roster spot can be used for an actual backup infielder.
It’s with all DUE respect. I guess it’s assumed that no respect is actually due to the person.
I wouldn’t think Sweeney has any value out there on the trade market. He’s a bad week away from retiring. And Griffey isn’t going anywhere either this year. The team seems OK with his pretty bleak OPS in the lineup, as long as he’s being the clubhouse guy we need. But at this point, do we NEED a clubhouse guy? Or is it all about the ticket sales with Griff?
Playing a position doesn’t mean you are good at it. For reference please see Chris Shelton’s time in Tacoma “playing” 3B this year.
Wlad’s played less than a total season worth of games in the field and most people believe that you need multiple seasons of fielding data to remove most of the noise. That being said, the data we have so far shows that he’s not a “good” defender. In his ~80 games worth of playing time in RF/LF he is 1.3 runs above the average corner outfielder (according to Fangraphs UZR). In 25 starts in CF his UZR is -2.1 which puts him on pace to be -13 runs over a full season.
No. He’s old, he’s been hurt often, and he hasn’t hit. The M’s options are to keep him on the 25, stash him on the DL and let him hang out around the club, or DFA him.
Balentien for Snell… PLEASE?! That’d be awesome.
Is this right? I am reading that Snell is “refusing” to come back and play in the majors for the Pirates? He’d rather ride a bus and sleep in motels than play for the Pirates? WOW. Not THAT is a sign of a well run organization that players want to play for.
Something interesting to consider that I personally hadn’t realized. The M’s have only played 43 home games this year thus far. That’s fewest in the AL. Rangers have played 52 thus far and Angels are at 45. For the Halos it doesn’t seem to make much of any difference in terms of their wins whether they are home or away. But for Texas and the M’s it does. Griffey has also been a decent hitter at Safeco this season.
Anyways the important thing, the M’s have 38 more home games to play. If they keep their current winning percentage at home (58%) and .500 on the road that puts them at 22.1 wins at home and 14.5 wins on the road (29 total left on the road) the rest of the way; so about 37-ish total wins thus the M’s finishing at 88 wins. It’s maddening how close this team is to being a playoff contender and yet, not quite there. Amazing job by JZ though.
If only the M’s could take a mulligan on May. Or heck, I’d settle for a mulligan on the decision to use Morrow on those back to back blown save losses in Texas.
Isn’t Balentien EXACTLY the type of guy you use to swindle other teams? Kinda like YB, but far tastier? He has scintillating raw talent, he hasn’t made all that many MLB PAs, and his minor league lines are pretty appealing for their age/level combinations.
He seems like the type of guy other teams can really sell themselves on, and with Pittsburgh’s situation with Snell, you’d think we could at LEAST make that deal. Maybe even package Clement and get back Tabata and Lincoln.
But, that being said, I seem to recall Pittsburgh’s moves being pretty roundly supported by smarter analysts, up to obviously being swindled out of LaRoche because they’re fed up with him (kinda like Snell!). They got back a killer haul for a grossly overvalued McLouth, and got younger/more upside/cheaper with Morgan for Milledge, along with getting a closer-esque reliever in Joel Hanrahan for older/I-don’t-know-what-value-he-has Sean Burnett.
Speaking of Lastings Milledge, maybe we should be trying to target Elijah Dukes… Coming here, he couldn’t be any further away from his troubles in Florida. And just think of the upside!
Whenever a fly ball is hit to the vicinity of CF and I expect to see Gutierrez gliding over to make the catch, but then it’s the Langerhans, the downgrade is noticeable despite the fact he gets good jumps on fly balls, runs solid routes and covers plenty of ground with his long strides.
It’s just a testament to how freaking good Gutierrez really is.
Beginning to look like the Mariners are going to be a contender. They have 22 games left against the worst 3 teams in the AL. I’m expecting some interesting moves coming shortly.
I would like to see the M’s package Balentien and Tuiososopo (He’s not going to be our savior, so let’s get something good for him) to the Pirates for SS Jack Wilson and P Ian Snell. Instant upgrade, then all we need to do is find a catcher with some pop.
lewis458, note my links above: there are those who liked the McLouth deal for Pittsburgh, but mostly in the scouting community (those who see real upside to Locke and Hernandez); Dave didn’t think the Bucs got enough for someone they had no particular reason to deal, and his opinion was pretty representative, iirc. As for Morgan, that deal only makes sense for Pittsburgh if you think there’s a real chance that Milledge can be fixed — and there are many out there who find that proposition pretty dubious. I suspect we can get Snell for a below-value price, if Zduriencik wants him, because their org has soured on him — but I don’t see them selling low on someone like Tabata.
And bilbo, just because a statement isn’t complimentary or polite doesn’t mean it’s necessarily disrespectful. Most of us have times when we’re being condescending snots, and need to be called on it (me no less than anyone else and more than some, to be sure).
I wish I’d saved this ranting post in Baker’s blog that was pure, pure gold. All about how all of Zduriencik’s moves were awful, because, Langerhans for example, wasn’t even good enough to play on the big league Nationals! There was also something about getting the A’s cast-offs.
I don’t usually slag on other blogs, but this was such an example of just glancing out the window while driving by at 90 MPH to form opinions.
It then went into my old favorite, how we gotta get a big bat, some pop in the lineup, a stud, blah, blah, blah.
juneau, was that Baker, or one of the commenters over there?
Lets not jump the gun on considering ourselves out-and-out buyers. Getting rid of Wlad the Stumbler would be dandy, but we’re still 5 out and we’re still chasing 2 teams.
But we’ve got a closer who will eventually come back to earth, and probably blow a couple or three more saves this season.
And to be honest, I think Ichiro will probably come back down a little too.
However, we do have the weakest schedule in the AL West (not that it really matters THAT much, because it really isn’t that much different from LAA and TEX), and we do have more home games than the rest of the AL West.
18%… 85-88 wins… So close, yet…
That’s why Dave’s been arguing that we should buy and sell at the same time; which, if Churchill’s tweet is right, sounds like what the FO’s on about.
Yessss! 3-0 Twins in Anaheim.
Snell is a must if you ask me, everything i read on him is he is a low buy player. He could start for us right now let alone once Bedard and Wash are dealt.
Any chance something like Wash/Erik/Wladmir/Corocan/Lowe brings back Hardy/Snell and possibly Sanchez? Could we give the Brewers Wash/Wlad/Lowe for Hardy and take Bill Hall’s contract? Would they go for that?
Its an interesting hand to play poker with… We’re not like Pitt or Baltimore, where everyone knows they want to sell…
We can walk away from a deal… But you know there are some teams that are looking at Bedard and Washburn longingly, and thinking about their rotation every day.
If Boston can’t land Halladay, they might come calling. They just watched the Yankees whiz by, and that can’t feel good. The Rockies and Giants can be played against each other.
And there is Phillie too.
I was checking on something else and happened to notice that the M’s were 2 1/2 back of the Angels on May 25. Since that date, the M’s have played .625 ball. They’ve lost 3 games in the standings since then because the Angels have played .667 ball. Neither percentage seems sustainable for either team.
Twins beat that LAA ass!
Sorry, The Ancient Mariner, wandered off. It wasn’t Baker making the comment, but one of his posters. I should hope that Baker realizes that a team may be poorly managed.
Making a move to get Snell would be a bit premature until we can see how well RRS has recovered. Now if there is a plan to trade Bedard, then bringing in Snell would make sense. But a trade involving Bedard, assuming the M’s are still in contention, would probably have to net us a high end prospect, and more importantly in the context of this season, an established hitter. Not so much a big bopper, but another guti level player who can hold his own at the plate.
At 4:40 pm this afternoon, there was a line of about six people getting tickets at Safeco. I was in that line. We’ll be sitting right behind where Guti ought to be playing.
I’m bringing a book because I’m getting there in time to get my bobblehead.
It really is getitng fun, Dave. I just wish that we were closer to a playoff spot than what we are right now.
I’m not optimistic at all about our chances of making the playoffs. But this team is fun to watch. I happen to appreciate low scoring games a lot more than 10-8 slugfests.
To illustrate the point, the average game in MLB this year has 9.18 runs. Mariner games have 8.01. When was the last time a team averaged under 8 total runs scored in their games throughout a season?
Close, tense, and exciting. And I love good defense.
Of course, it doesn’t hurt that I’ve got a bet on with my brother-in-law such that I get a beer for every game they win this season over 64.
Time for Nathan to shut down those Angels.
We are all huge Joe Nathan fans right now
Don’t forget about the wild card, seems to me the Mariners are closer to that than the lead in the AL west.
I believe the homeplate umpire in this game hates the Mariners!!!
2 strikes called balls..this game should be over!!
I sure hope you’e not expected to drink them in one sitting.
No kidding. I can’t believe that Angels tied that game up. Bloop hits, luck hits, missed calls by the ump and it’s tied. Is there a luckier team in baseball than the Angels?
Incredible bounce on the Kendrick “hit”
I can’t believe I’m staying up late to watch extra innings…
Um…Go Twins!!
Inning summary over at Yahoo
Whaaaa?
If this game to goes to the Angels, is anyone NOT convinced that its time to sell? I mean everything seems to be going their way. 5.5 games out with 65ish games to play, and with another team to jump over.. as well as the M’s are playing, I don’t see it happening.
the Angels are not in our outfield…
Fuck! Unbelievable!
Angels just won again… 4.5 out of the wild card and 5.5 out of first place in the AL West.
fuckin angels… never gonna catch up if they keep this up..
bummer.
Sigh…by the end of the weekend I hope to have made up some ground. With any luck, the halos will lose three straight and we’ll sweep the tribe…but after two winnable games we have to go against Cliff Lee, Ricky Romero, and maybe Halladay.
That could be the 3 game stretch that determines the season.
I would like to propose that the Angels are forced to make either Mike Hargrove or John McLaren their manager, effective immediately.
All in favor, say “aye”.
I hate everything about the Angels. The way they win is even more annoying than the way the M’s win. Lets hope another epic collapse is coming to an Angels season near you.
Well then lets hope that Halladay is pitching far far away in the NL East by then. The M’s can sweep the tribe if they can get a good start out of hyphen. The Jays aren’t very scary to play anymore. Maybe the Angels will lose a game again this year….. DEATH TO THE RALLY MONKEY!!
The Angels are winning with smoke and mirrors, they will lose eventually….
Did anyone else watch the final out of Buehele’s perfecto? The White Sox announcer was beyond awful, “Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!!!” It reminded me strongly of Gollum when he finally got the ring at the end of Return of the King. Sounded almost exactly like it. What kind of call is that for such a momentous occasion?
I kind of feel sorry for the White Sox fans having to listen to that every day. Thank goodness for Dave Niehaus and Rick Rizzs. Heck, even Sims is better than that guy.
I think they’re up to 16 straight years now, and after 2009 is over they’ll be at 17, which I believe sets a new major league record for consecutive seasons below .500 (the Phillies were below .500 from 1933-1948).
The Mariners early years … err, decades … were abysmal, but even they managed only 14 straight sub-.500 seasons, before breaking through in 1991.
But at least Pirates fans can look back on better days, the Bonds years, the We Are Family championship, Honus Wagner, etc. M’s fans in the early years had nothing to look back on, nothing to look forward to, and not all that much to watch in the present either. Boy those were the bad old days. Much better now.
Or they will get healthy and pull away while our smoke and mirrors fade away.
It’s funny that everyone wants to write them off because one of their hits bounced off a base. What about the other 13? Were they smoke and mirrors too?
I do wonder if some of their hits don’t come as a result of having so many men on base and so many runners moving all the time.
bilbo27: that’s the notorious Hawk Harrelson on the call (Heave the Hawk!). He’s indescribably awful.
I live in Chicago and I literally can’t watch more than five seconds of a Sox broadcast without getting angry and annoyed. If they’re playing the M’s I’ll watch the entire game on mute.
By Pythagoras, the Angels are 3 games luckier than they should be. The Mariners are now 5 games luckier than they should be. The Angels aren’t great, but they’re probably a .530, 85 win team. The M’s are a .500, 81 win team. That’s the reality that’s staring Zduriencik in the face (and, unlike Bavasi in ’07, he undoubtedly understands that).
But hey, if you want to be the glass-half-full kind of guy, that win over Detroit pushed the M’s past them in the wild card race. Now just Tampa Bay, Texas, and Boston to overcome. How hard could that be?