M’s Add Bill Hall
The M’s have added another former Brewer, going back to the old stomping grounds to get Bill Hall from Milwaukee. The Brewers DFA’d him last week, and the M’s are shipping minor league reliever Ruben Flores to the Brewers in exchange for Hall. The Brewers are picking up practically all of the remaining ~$10 million on his contract for this year and 2010.
Hall’s numbers aren’t good – .201/.265/.341 this year after a .225/.293/.396 season last year was enough for the Brewers to throw in the towel. He’s right-handed, he strikes out a lot, and when the line drives aren’t falling for hits, he doesn’t have much offensive value. However, he still plays a pretty mean third base, and I have a feeling the M’s will give him a look back at his old position of shortstop to see if he can handle a utility infielder role with the club next year.
If the M’s can get him straightened out, he could be a nice piece. He’s a talented player – extremely athletic, can play a bunch of positions, hits the ball hard when he makes contact, but his contact problems and general struggles against right-handed pitchers have sunk what looked to be a promising career a couple of years ago.
For the rest of this year, he’ll likely platoon with Hannahan at third while they take a look at him as a utility guy. For next year, his presence on the roster probably means that they’re not bringing Beltre back. They could get by at 3B with a Hannahan/Hall platoon, which saves them enough money to go upgrade another position. There’s some upside to a low cost productive platoon from a couple of good glove guys who have some offensive upside, but it’s also a bit sad that this probably closes the door on Beltre returning to the M’s.
Flores isn’t someone you should worry about giving up, and with the Brewers picking up the salary, it’s a nice buy low move for the M’s. However, if it really does signify that Beltre will be elsewhere next year (like I think it does), then the M’s will have to show that they can spend that money on an upgrade somewhere else (2B? DH? SP?) just as well. In Jack We Trust… but I’ll miss Adrian.
Any idea on a corresponding roster move?
Bedard to the 60 Day DL.
High-upside pickup for not much money and throw-in arm. Definitely like the move. Plus someone named Marty McSuperFly sponsors his Baseball-Reference page.
But looking at said page I guess Hall really isn’t a potential replacement for Lopez?
Hall is a career 275/347/484 batter against southpaws and can play bunch of positions. I like the move. With any luck they’ll kick Sweeney to the curb.
As far as Beltre goes… I’ve got a feeling his situation is beyond the clubs control. It might be a bit pre-mature but thanks Adrian and good luck moving foward.
If you’re Adrian and the M’s offer you arbitration… do you take it?
I’ll miss Beltre as well but I think this really spells the end of Jose Lopez. No lineup can survive with two .300 OBP guys in the middle. Beltre hasn’t been much better this year but that is because of bad luck to start the season.
I know I will miss Beltre much more than Lopez I just can’t believe Lopez hasn’t improved in taking walks or at least hitting for a higher average. Oh well maybe we can trade him for something usefull.
mw3, Lopez hasn’t been too bad this year, we have him for a low salary and he is hitting around .325 wOBA with slightly below average defence. There are bigger holes in the roster than Jose Lopez.
IF Bill Hall and Hannahan platoon at 3b, what’s left to upgrade next year, the DH and second base?
We need a DH more than a Lopez upgrade but what other postion do you look to upgrade.
Sure if the Mariners could sign Chone Figgins to play third then Lopez’ bad defense and mediocre offense can be dealt with. But if Hannahan and Bill Hall are on third next year replacing Lopez with a simillar glove better bat or equal bat better glove man is a must.
Where does Tui fit into this equation?
Tui needs more work on his defense. Starting next year back at Tacoma won’t hurt him.
I’ve always been a big fan of Bill Hall. He can fill the Willie Bloomquist role the M’s are missing, it will be weird having someone with talent do that for the 1st time in 20 years.
Who are some of the bigger names that will be free agents next year?
I like Bill Hall, and I am a fan of platoon situations. So I am OK with this move. I wish there were more than 25 roster spots, to accomodate platoons more. They were a big part of the game in the eighties, and the best teams of that era had atleast one. I concur with “In Jack we trust.” And also on missing Beltre, and I hope he can have a few big offense seasons if he returns to the N.L.
Well, considering trades that create a platoon, let’s just say that we’re much less likely to regret giving up Justin Souza and Ruben Flores than Shin-Soo Choo and Asdrubal Cabrera.
Also, it’s curious to see which slumping former Brewers infielder Jack ultimately picked up.
First Nelson, now Hall. Hardy has to be next right?
Beltre wasn’t coming back anyways. As JZ said recently “Beltre loves Seattle, but HATES Safeco Field”. That along with the Boras factor (Boras just generally being as good as he is at what he does and thus will test the free agent market no matter what with Beltre and him knowing Beltre playing at a hitter friendly park for right handers = much bigger contract after this coming one for Beltre). I’m guessing with Beltre having an off year due to injuries and a less than steller last couple years (in terms of what most teams value, ie not defense), Boras is going to look for a two to three year or so deal someplace where Beltre can pad his home run totals significantly more than he could have at Safeco while still being a short enough contract that he can still be considered “in his prime” for the following contract. Just my guess.
There are any number of guys who are free agents next year that can DH more effectivly than Griff.
Anybody know who’s quality and available as a FA at 2nd?
Well, I like this move. Bill Hall has some pop in his bat and he should be a nice compliment to the other infielders. I had a feeling that Jack would a take a good look at him. This is a solid move.
We all enjoyed having Adrian here and I think that we’ll miss his game just a bit, but this is probably the right move going forward. Jack and company are all about stockpiling talent and giving themselves options. Roster flexibility is a good thing.
Onward and upward. Thank you, Adrian. You are a great baseball player.
I agree that this is probably the end of the line for Adrian. Hopefully the fan base has come to recognize his contributions and he won’t be considered a “bust” once he is gone.
It will be very interesting to see where that $11 million or so goes. Does Branyan get some of that money? Following June 13, he’s hit .195/.286/.410.
No one better than Jose Lopez.
To clarify…
No one better than Jose Lopez at that price. If Jose is a 2 WAR player next year at $2.3M, signing a Free Agent 2B for $9M who provides 3 WAR would be a marginal cost of $6.7M for 1 WAR.
The team might then be able to turn around and trade Jose if so desired, but I’m not sure if they’d get fair market value back.
I like this move for the options it opens up. They could still make Beltre and offer, but they have Hall and Hannahan to show Scott Boras as a bargaining chip (i.e., Mr Boras, we don’t desparately need Adrian to resign, we have a cheap solution in the wings). These two came so cheaply that it wouldn’t matter if Beltre is retained, they could be kept or dispatched with little loss to the organization.
Here, here…
Wherever you may land next year, Adrian, we wish you much continued success. It was a pleasure to have had you here!
One slight difference: I don’t believe this closes the door on Beltre returning, in that I doubt Zduriencik would be one whit less likely to welcome Beltre back because of this move.
That said, I’d be amazed if Beltre re-signed here. . . . unless he does wind up with Type A status and winds up accepting arbitration because no one will give up a first-round pick for him, anyway.
Beltre, you were worth every penny, thank you.
Considering the Brewers are paying a large percentage of Hall’s next two years here in Seattle, I can’t help but sort of like this pickup.
Bill Hall wins games! Seriously though, he’s terrible. As an ex-pat Washingtonian living in Milwaukee I’ve followed his whole career. If you can handle watching terrible form, awful pitch selection, slightly above average defense and the occasional HR, Billy is your man. I do have to say it will be much more palatable watching him suck basically for free rather than for $10MM. He’s a good guy though and his teammates seemed to like him. He’s worth taking a flyer on for sure. Go M’s, and secondarily go Crew.
People, get a hold of yourselves! People!
You signed Bill freakin’ Hall, not Brooks Robinson. I think it’s a huge leap to say that this means the end for Beltre. Maybe he comes back, maybe he doesn’t, maybe he never wanted to, but no major league team would shut the door like that. Most certainly not for Bill Hall, who is a couple of breaths from being out of baseball altogether.
This is a nice, low cost, depth move. It gives them some (minimal) leverage in Beltre negotiations. If the Ms go into April next year with Bill Hall as the starting 3B, I’d be pretty shocked. I could see them kicking the tires as a potential utility guy, but how could this possibly mean that Beltre is definitely not coming back?
[ot, rosterbating, stop leaving so many bad comments]
If you can handle watching terrible form, awful pitch selection, slightly above average defense and the occasional HR, Billy is your man.
Well, we did survive a half-season of Ronny Cedeno.
Ok, if this is our future 3B count me out. He can’t hit. No thank you. Utility man, you betcha. We have enough glove men, I want a real bat…
What part of “platoon” did you not understand?
Hey, if you have Bill Hall, Jack Hannahan, and Ryan Langerhans (and a catcher) on your roster, would you need any other bench players? I’m sure they could cover 1B if they had to.
OK, forgive me for not having all the research here but consider this. We all said, “Look what Z did with the budget constraints he had! Just think what he could do without those!”
Washburn’s $9M is off the books. Yuni’s $4M is off the books (or did we pick up some salary?). Bedard’s $8???? is off the books. Batista’s $8M is off the books…breathe…Now Beltre’s $12M is off the books?!
I will miss Adrian too and wish we could re-sign him. But that’s $40M minus budget cuts that Jack has available?
Yes, I will miss Beltre dearly, but I think we are entering a new era of Mariners baseball.
Isn’t this more about insurance against Beltre resigning than a concrete plan to replace him? Even if you though Beltre was 70-30 to return (which is crazy), you’d have to think about plan B.
If Beltre re-signs, Hall becomes a McLemore-type player who gets 350 AB without having a regular position and Hanahan might be a LH bat off the bench or goes to AAA. I don’t see anything so wonderful about Hall or Hanahan that they’re clearly earning a roster spot much less a starting job. With Milwaukee picking up the contract, they’re basically signed Hall to a 1-year deal at the major league minimum.
That said, I think the chance of Beltre coming back is about 10%. He hates hitting in Safeco and he’s already sold his home in the Seattle area.
It’s interesting looking at Hall’s 35HR season. Now I’ve seen some wild speculation that PED’s were responsible for his spike in HR’s but looking at fangraphs, it may just be a statistical fluke. In 2006 he had a career low GB% coupled with a career highs in FB% and HR/FB%. All of which reverted the next season. I might also note that MLB introduced random year round PED testing in 2005.
Looking at ’10 whatever way you cut it the M’s still need to pick up 1-1.5 runs per game over this year. With Beltre leaving I’m not sure where that is going to come from. Actually they probably need 2 runs, the pitching will probably regress at least .5 runs a game next year.
Saunders and Wilson for a full season will help make up a little of that, but really the only other place to add any more production is DH. I wouldn’t mind seeing Carp/Shelton replace Griffey/Sweeney at DH. Or Ackley at 1st (but not to start the season), Branyan at DH. I’m not real exited about Ackley in LF, mainly because I want to see more of Saunders and Langerhans, not because of any knock on Ackley.
Two runs. Per game.
Yeah… no.
Bill Hall?
Again another soft move by Dr. Z. It’s getting old. Soon the m’s will have a roster of AAA talent trying to make it to the show. I’m not sure why so many are hoigh on Dr. Z. Nice job on Branyan and Gute, but the rest of the bunch are borderline MLB’ers.
I don’t accept that Beltre is necessarily finished in Seattle. That’s just one of three possibilities.
Hopefully, the M’s will try and field one DH next season, after Sweeney and Griffey have finished the important task of turning around the clubhouse atmosphere. If we assume the team carries 12 pitchers again, they could have a bench of Hannahan at 2B/3B/SS, Langerhans at 1B/OF, and Hall everywhere.
Also, they could try Hall and Hannahan as a 2nd base platoon if the team would rather have Beltre than Lopez.
Maybe Beltre will leave, but there’s still room for him to come back after this deal.
I’m pretty sure that, twelve months ago, curveballlee was complaining about how we didn’t get any ‘proven veterans’ back in the Putz trade. Additionally, prior to this year, Branyan was pretty much the classic definition of a ‘AAAA’ player, a species that saber-oriented people have long claimed didn’t actually exist.
What I see you claiming here is that there’s some ability to distinguish between players like Guti and Branyan on the one hand and, what?, Hannahan, Hall, Langerhans, etc on the other, that Z should be exercising. I really doubt that prior to this year, you’d have pointed at Guti as the fifth or sixth best CF in MLB, and I doubt that you have the analytical powers you’re implying you have.
curveballee, this is getting really old. Zduriencik picks up a potentially useful piece for zero meaningful cost, and you consider this reason to bash him? Knock it off.
Z has done a good job of picking up several cheap “platoon” players, but what good does it do when Wak refuses to platoon them? What happens when the opponent brings in a RH reliever to face Hall in the 8th and Wak won’t pinch hit with Hannahan? We’ve already seen this story with Sweeney (and Balentin) all year.
Umm, you do realize that Griffey/Sweeney have been strictly platooned the whole year, right?
Derek/Dave – I sort of left the USSM event with the impression that Z was optimistic about Beltre returning next year. Has something changed, or was I not paying enough attention? Perhaps I just confused “hopeful” with “optimistic”?
Even if they think Beltre is likely to resign, having a backup plan in place isn’t a bad thing.
Umm, you do realize that Griffey/Sweeney have been strictly platooned the whole year, right?
I was thinking more about intra-game platooning i.e. Sweeney facing a tough RH reliever in the late innings. It seems like Wak is more likely to let him stay in the game than to bring Griffey in to pinch hit for him. Wasn’t everybody ranting about this just last week?
I like this move a lot.
Count me among those who don’t see this as the M’s closing the door on Beltre, but it certainly gives them another direction if Beltre chooses to go elsewhere (as I think is more likely than not). That’s smart.
As to curveballee, why on earth would you criticize a move like this? Like the Hanahan move and Langerhans before that, this is just JZ picking up marginal runs/wins at little to no cost, increasing the team’s flexibility to pursue the kind of move you say the M’s should be making. But there is a process here – you can’t just do that kind of thing overnight. Have some patience (and a little faith), man!
Or diamonds-in-the-rough, as it were. It’s low cost with possible high upside. Would you rather see some Bavasiesque moves?
Good riddance to Adrian Beltre and his wild swings on pitches WAY outside the strikezone. We did not go anywhere in all of the 5 seasons he played here. Beltre is good, but not at $13million a year. Go and suck somewhere else please.
And we have a winner in the “dumbest thing posted on the site today” contest.
I love this move! Getting upside like Bill Hall has for basically nothing. How can anyone not like this move? Are you for real Curveballlee? This is the same type of move as the Branyan one you like………
Wait, so the M’s fortunes over the past five years were all due to Beltre? Here I thought it was Bavasi giving out ridiculous contracts and trading too much for too little, and Hargrove deciding to stick to “roles” when bringing in flammable relievers and writing useless veterans into the lineup. But it was all Beltre all this time? My god, man, you’ve cracked the case!
Especially when his agent is Scott Boras. You’re always strongest in a negotiation when you have a perfectly viable “Plan B” so you’re in a position to walk away with no regret… and make sure the other side knows it.
And he’s arguably better than that: by Fangraph’s calculations Gutierrez is the 3rd most valuable CF in baseball. (And the 9th most valuable outfielder and the 24th most valuable position player, right on par with MVP Pedroia and multi-million-dollar Teixeira)
Well, I was pulling numbers out of my ass for the sake of the argument, so I was a little conservative. I think we can agree on the bottom line: Guti is really good.