Ichiro Wins GG, Gutierrez Does Not

Dave · November 10, 2009 at 12:32 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

The Gold Gloves have been announced, and predictably, Ichiro won one and Franklin Gutierrez did not.

You should not care. These are about as meaningful as the teen choice awards. The people who vote on them don’t really put much thought into it, nor do they really know what they’re doing. They don’t represent defensive ability in any real way, shape, or form.

It’s a broken system. You should feel worse for Rawlings that they attach their name to this than for Death To Flying Things, who most people recognize as a superb defensive player.


27 Responses to “Ichiro Wins GG, Gutierrez Does Not”

  1. Mariner Melee on November 10th, 2009 12:41 pm

    It’s still a terrible thing that less intelligent fans who put stock into this will never know how good Guti actually was.

    Oh well I guess he’ll be out little secret. I find myself more and more disappointed with “Baseball People” everyday.

    How stupid.

  2. naviomelo on November 10th, 2009 12:46 pm

    I actually like that these awards exist. It helps bad players to be overvalued and good players to be undervalued, and smart GMs can take advantage of that.

  3. Manzanillos Cup on November 10th, 2009 12:48 pm

    I discovered today: Carl Crawford has never won a Gold Glove. Unbelievable.

  4. ChrisB on November 10th, 2009 12:50 pm

    Anyway, Guti and Ichiro both won Fielding Bible awards so….

  5. Carson on November 10th, 2009 12:54 pm

    You keep telling us not to care. I want to not care.

    Maybe it’s the AJ aspect of it, I don’t know. But, I indeed had a 20 second period of anger.

  6. NoStars on November 10th, 2009 1:06 pm

    I received a Gold Glove award when I was 12 as a catcher. It’s only purpose to me is sometimes when someone throws something to me like another beer and I make a good catch I say,”Gold Glove. 12-years-old.” Maybe Ichiro will give Guti his award since he has so many or better yet Hunter can give his since he only played in 119 games, and while he’s at it he can go ahead and send back his 2005 award where he only played in 98 games.

  7. georgmi on November 10th, 2009 1:11 pm

    Given the AL results at shortstop this year, it’s obvious that Guti’s failure was an insufficiency of smug. Maybe he can hire a coach for that this offseason?

  8. SCL on November 10th, 2009 1:16 pm

    I think now is the time to buy out all of Guti’s arbitration years.

  9. msb on November 10th, 2009 1:21 pm

    It doesn’t help when broadcasters reflexively add “Gold Glove Winner” to a players name …

  10. Taylor H on November 10th, 2009 1:25 pm

    Well that’s obnoxious.

  11. Broadcast James on November 10th, 2009 1:51 pm

    What’s the odds on Kanye West interrupting the acceptance speech? I mean Guti did have one of the best seasons “OF ALL TIME”…

  12. Breadbaker on November 10th, 2009 2:01 pm

    Derek Jeter won for shortstop. If I were Ichiro, I’d turn down my award on that basis more than Franklin worrying over not winning.

  13. DaveValleDrinkNight on November 10th, 2009 2:56 pm

    So I’m assuming Manny Ramirez is a lock for the GG in the NL.

  14. Rboyle0628 on November 10th, 2009 3:27 pm

    Hate to be the one to say it. But after the Bedard trade this is like throwing more salt on to the wound.

  15. J-Dog on November 10th, 2009 3:36 pm

    Great quote from Rob Neyer

    Fortunately, the voters were wise enough to make room for an exciting young outfielder who burst upon the scene in 2009 with some of the most brilliant defense we’ve seen in center field since the heyday of Andruw Jones.

    I am referring, of course, to the stupendously amazing Franklin Gutierrez, who … Wait, what? They didn’t vote for Franklin Gutierrez, who spent the entire season catching everything in sight and racking up phenomenal numbers?

    Neyer Link.

  16. ChrisK on November 10th, 2009 3:50 pm

    Since the Gold Glove is voted on by managers & coaches, isn’t this is a perfect example of how flawed (and overrated) they are at evaluating the game?

  17. scott19 on November 10th, 2009 3:54 pm

    Like I’ve said before, I stopped believing in the credibility of the GG back in 1998 when David Segui got screwed out of it in favor of Rafael Palmeiro, largely based on: (1) the fact that Palmeiro had a monster year offensively, & (2) they liked Palmeiro better because he was apparently considered more “media-friendly.”

    Of course, I loved it when Segui told the GG committee in so many words where they could insert their precious award. ๐Ÿ™‚

  18. Joe C on November 10th, 2009 4:02 pm

    I’m no expert on fielding and who should win a gold glove, but in my opinion, if you were to pick three outfielder seasons in the last ten to award a gold glove… Gutierrez would have to win one for last year. I hope Gutierrez is even better next year.

  19. josh_h on November 10th, 2009 4:27 pm

    Jeter’s eye-popping defensive work wasn’t accidental. He committed eight errors in 554 chances — the league’s eight other shortstops with 500-plus chances averaged 17 errors — the season after his reputation was stung by various sabermetrics indexes that had him as the lowest-ranked shortstop in the Major Leagues.

    From the MLB.com article.

    I love how this is written to give the reader the impression that “sabermetrics indexes” are somehow not valid… like they are a fringe science…
    Particularly since the article doesn’t give any reference to any range based defensive evaluation for 2009’s performance – simply errors committed (fielding percentage).

    “Be aware of those crazy sabermetrics indexes!”

  20. josh_h on November 10th, 2009 4:29 pm

    My apologies for the messed up hyperlink… (Edit button please)

  21. TerryMc on November 10th, 2009 7:30 pm

    I wonder if any of the teams or player agents use the crazy sabertmetric indexes when arguing their arbitration cases, ’cause ya know it’s all made up just like that global warming thing.

    It is worth pointing out that Jeter did an amazing turnaround in posting a 6.6UZR and 8.4UZR/150 this last season which is a tiny bit better than his -15.3UZR and -16.7UZR/150 in 2007. If his fielding increase stands over the next season or two (instead of in hindsight being cherry-picked low and high numbers out of his career) then teams/players/agents should really look at his off-season and how he targeted skills to allow him to be equally well to the left and right. I never much cared for Jeter but if he did work hard and intelligently to improve this late in his career, good for him.

  22. DMZ on November 10th, 2009 7:49 pm

    Arb cases are advancing quite quickly in recent years, but they’re certainly not using UZR (etc) yet. Power Point’s a pretty new innovation in the world of arbitration cases.

  23. Carson on November 10th, 2009 9:04 pm


    ESPN actually just spoke about UZR (huzzah, fangraphs plug!).

    Unfortunately, they used it to show how Jeter compared to other short stops.

    Jack Wilson left off the list (I guess I can understand why), but if someone at ESPN is looking at UZR and puts it on the air, how do their eyes not pop out when they see Gutierrez’s number?

  24. TranquilPsychosis on November 10th, 2009 10:23 pm

    Unfortunately, they used it to show how Jeter compared to other short stops.

    Sorry to ask, but, what other position should they compare him to? He is a SS after all…

  25. ClaytonMiles on November 10th, 2009 11:40 pm

    Instead of repeating the obvious, I’d just like to thank Franklin Gutierrez for the best season of OF defense I have ever seen. I’ll be watching his highlights all winter.
    And in retrospect, you should take a moment to read Dave’s post from Dec. 10, 2008 about how good Franklin Gutierrez would be for the Ms at defense. Absolute money.

  26. Shrike on November 10th, 2009 11:53 pm

    Posnanski has a great blog post up about this. Needless to say, he wrote that Gutierrez was robbed.

  27. Breadbaker on November 11th, 2009 3:10 am

    From Poz’s great article (and you really should read the whole thing because it’s funny all the way through):

    Do me a favor, no matter how you may feel about defensive numbers: Just look at those again. Compare them. Please? Everyone here knows I love these stats, but even if you think they are irreparably flawed รขโ‚ฌโ€ could they be THAT WRONG? His [i.e., Guti’s] plus minus is SIXTY THREE PLAYS better than Adam Jones. His UZR suggests he saved more than THIRTY RUNS more Torii Hunter. Could they be that wrong?

    Thanks, Joe. Come to the next USSM event, we’ll buy you a beer. Even two.

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