Griffey to return in 2010, Stone reports
DMZ · November 11, 2009 at 8:42 am · Filed Under Mariners
See here. Details as yet unannounced.
I expect the now-standard split of reactions:
1. Griffey “deserves” (or “earned”) a spot based on fan love, past contributions, clubhouse chemistry, etc
vs
2. Griffey can’t hit or field any more
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29 Responses to “Griffey to return in 2010, Stone reports”
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I expect there will be an implicit understanding that if Griffey isn’t attaining some benchmark numbers by the end of May, there will be a parting of the ways. The most graceful scenario is that Griffey retires and continues to serve with the Club in some capacity.
While the logical side of me is a bit squeemish over this news, I can’t help but smile. I just hope we don’t have to pay him 3 mill to be a pinch-hitting, ice cream-throwing, hug-giving, veteran presence. I’d say he’s worth between 1 and 2 million.
It’s a good thing we have a few utility guys who can play almost every position because we’ll need them. This might rule us out of the DH-only types in free agency.
I don’t get it but I understand this if that makes sense…
I take #2
I take two too. (say it out loud for extra fun)
What I think this tells me is that the M’s think they aren’t quite up to the point they can compete with the Angels, not that they would say that.
It tells me that they are going to allow Tui, Moore, and The Condor to play their respective positions, and see what happens, rather than go out and trade for or sign some big money items.
And where does signing Griffey come in? Well, I suppose he’s the one that’s supposed to tickle the three kids into taking pitches and learning to hit the other way.
Based on this news, I would expect a lot more signings than a high-risk/high-reward starting pitcher, and perhaps Branyan for another year or two.
Basically, the thinking I see is “We got what we got, and let’s see how far it can take us, and figure it out from there.”
It all depends on how much it costs in relation to the budget. What is the expected ROI going to be? Does Fangraphs have a metric for team hugs? HAR: Hugs Above Replacement.
Based on this news, I would NOT expect a lot more signings than a high-risk/high-reward starting pitcher, and perhaps Branyan for another year or two.
Is there a KIH (Keeping Ichiro Happy) factor in there as well?
Griffey is harmless as a 25th man, if he’s solely a DH and if the Mariners can get a significant upgrade in at least 2 of left field, third base or starting pitching.
Ok USSM guys, I get, and mostly agree with your reasons for not wanting Griffey back. I was hoping he’d retire and save everyone the hassle.
That said, you guys have an annoying tendency to decide that a player is either desirable or undesirable, and refuse to acknowledge anything positive about a player once you have labeled them undesirable. Griffey did show an ability to take a walk and pop some homers last year.
In my view, the biggest problem with keeping griffey is him taking a roster spot and at bats from younger or new players from outside the org. What I take issue with is your repeated pronouncements that griffey is done as a hitter. He’s not. His ISO and walk rate are still both very good, among the best on the team. And his BABIP was insanely low last year. I think it is quite reasonable, if he’s played in favorable matchups and kept healthy and rested to look at a line like .250 .360 .460. To me, a left handed platoon DH/pinch hitter who posts an .800+ ops, is a good influence on free swinging youngsters, and brings in revenue just with his name is worth a million bucks.
Not to be an apologist, but the guy is a class act. While his skills may have diminished, he represents what was and is good in the game. After all it’s still a game isn’t it? Besides that, let’s be honest, if he announces that this is his last playing season, this is technically his farewell tour. Not only will it put butts in the seats in Seattle, but it will also put butts in the seats in other markets both high and low.
Griffey for President in 2010!
Oh and as you have already stated, he is great in the clubhouse and helps to keep the guys loose.
w.r.t.
I would go look up, for example, the 90 times we went out of our way to credit Washburn despite thinking he’s a jerk… but why put any more effort into this than you have?
Well the Designated Tickler is back. I knew this was coming when they said they wanted to resolve this quickly. The Mariners want to be able to market Griffey as they head into season ticket-selling season.
I think you hurt Raul’s feelings, Derek.
Well crap. As much as I love Griffey, 2009 was a great swan song for him. Will be nice to see him again in ’10, I guess.
But man, I hope he doesn’t turn in to Favre II.
Thanks for nitpicking a small portion of my response rather than actually addressing the point of my comment, which is that I believe Griffey’s production was (and will be) better than you guys seem to acknowledge. If griffey was a player that you were boosting, im sure we’d have heard all about his 14.00% walk rate .196 ISO, and how is numbers were hurt by a .222 BABIP which is .070 lower than his career average. Next time I’ll make sure to stick to my point and not include any mild criticism that might rile up derek. Sorry.
You said we alwaaaaaaaaaaaaays do this annoying thing you hate. Should I not address that ridiculous assertion because you feel like Griffey is somehow slighted and you want more discussion of how he’s underrated?
That’s a reflection on how much better the team could be, not just on Griffey’s skills.
There are players with consistently much better lines than this, as part-time or full-time DHs.
What are the odds that Larry Stone knew all along when he wrote that article yesterday?
Re: “If griffey was a player that you were boosting, im sure we’d have heard all about his 14.00% walk rate .196 ISO, and how is numbers were hurt by a .222 BABIP which is .070 lower than his career average.”
He had a .323 wOBA last year, and ended up being 0.2 WAR. In 2008 he was worth 0.4 WAR and in 2007 he was 0.2, according to fangraphs. Obviously it helps him to DH, but his offensive production is lower now than it was in those years.
Yes his BABIP (.222) was lower than his career numbers (.291), but he isnt as good now as he was for most of his career. You could probably claim that his current talent should lead to a .250-.260 BABIP, and maybe that brings his war up to like 0.5 over the partial season that he will be playing.
Those who arent in favor of the Griffey signing feel that way because they think its more useful to spend the bench spots on someoen like Langerhans, than on a .25-.5 WAR DH/Pinch Hitter/Designated Hugger.
I said you have a tendency. And I apologize for not being more specific. I guess what I was getting at is that you SOMETIMES address only the positive or negative aspects of a player. I feel this way about Jose Lopez too. He is a limited player, but hes also given us very consistent offensive production despite having a terrible lineup around him, at a position that many teams cant get much from. During 2008-2009 Lopez has produced 83 doubles, 42 homers, and was worth 4.7 wins above replacement.
So you don’t remember, say, the post where Dave talked about how Lopez’s power provides an interesting dilemma. Or his hot streak and how it relates to his real talent and what the team might do with him. Or… jeez.
I don’t know what to tell you.
But the real question is how many people in category #1 also agree with #2 and are simply willing to overlook it for the sake of nostalgia and deference to their childhood, and how many are simply in denial.
(Like the folks in category #1, swershow has made his mind up about something and now sees everything through that lens; actual data to the contrary will be ignored or waved away as exceptional points that don’t change his central thesis.)
I think Dave makes the most important point in the other post: it’s not so much that Griffey will be a poor player, but the fact that retaining Griffey means another guy loses his job. A guy who could have made a valuable contribution to the team for years is sacrificed to allow Griffey to tip his cap a few times.
I hope they keep Langerhans and get rid of Bill Hall or someoen else. Regardless of salary obligations. Langerhans is a great late inning defensive replacement in addition to being a good backup.
Alllllright. I surrender. You’ve done the work on Lopez I suppose.
I absolutely agree with everyone in the thread (as stated in my first post) that the roster spot could be better used on someone else. However, I absolutely disagree with the assertion that Griffey can’t hit. He brings positives to the table and those qualities should be mentioned too. Either way, he’s back, so lets hope for the best.
We are losing Bill Hall or Ryan Langerhans? Well, there goes the championship rings for 2010.