A Name To Tuck Away
Due to the varying abilities of the players already on the roster, the M’s find themselves in a rather interesting position this winter. They have four talented young position players who are all close to major league ready. They aren’t finished products necessarily, but they can play, and they have enough ability to fight for a spot on the team in spring training. Quality young talent is the lifeblood of an organization, and the upside of having first or second year players contributing for the league minimum is tough to match.
However, none of the four project to be good enough in 2010 that they should have job security heading into next season. They should have the opportunity to make the team, but the M’s can’t go into the season depending on these guys stepping up. It has to be a pleasant surprise, not an expected outcome. So, at each of their respective positions, the M’s need to provide a realistic alternative, but they need to do so without slamming the door shut on the kids.
At those positions, they need options, not necessarily solutions. That’s easier said than done, honestly. You generally don’t expend significant resources to acquire a player and then put his job up for grabs in spring training. You’re not going to sign Nick Johnson, then make him beat out Mike Carp for the first base job. That’s just not going to happen.
There is a path that can make this work, however – targeting players with positional flexibility. This is one of the ideas behind the acquisitions of guys like Jack Hannahan and Bill Hall. If Tui flops, those two could platoon at third base. If they trade Lopez, maybe those two share second base. Or maybe they keep Lopez and Tui wins the third base job, so Hall ends up as Saunders platoon partner and Hannahan fills the role of infield super-sub. Those guys give the M’s options.
What they don’t give the M’s is enough offense. They’re nice enough role players, but they’re backup plans if the first option doesn’t work out. The M’s need a guy with some positional flexibility who they actually want in the line-up and is good enough to hold down a fairly regular job. They need a guy who could slide in at two or three of the LF/3B/1B/C/DH jobs, depending on where the team needs him. It would also be great if he was a switch-hitter, giving the line-up some balance regardless of which position he ends up playing. Oh, and if he was already under contract for the next two years at reasonable salaries, that would help. If he happened to grow up in Moses Lake as a big Mariner fan, that would just be icing on the cake.
Believe it or not, that guy exists. His name is Ryan Doumit. He’s spent the last couple of years alternating between catcher and the disabled list for the Pirates, though they’ve also used him at first base and in the outfield, because his strengths behind the plate begin and end with “he can hit”. The rest of the resume is all pulled straight from Doumit’s file. He’s a switch hitter without much of a platoon split. He has some pop in his bat, and for his career, has been an above average major league hitter. He’ll be 29 next year, and is signed for $3.5 million in 2010 and $5.1 million in 2011, with a team option for 2012 and 2013 following that year. And yes, he’s a local kid. He’s even Willie Bloomquist’s cousin, so you know there’s grit and hustle in the genes somewhere.
He comes with downside, of course, or he wouldn’t be available. He posted a .299 OBP in 2009 when he was on the field, which wasn’t often. A good chunk of that was a low BABIP (.271 versus a .307 career mark), but he’s not a particularly patient hitter, so his on base percentage will always be driven by his batting average. He’s got enough power to make the approach work, but if you’re tired of guys hacking at pitches out of the strike zone, you may not love Doumit. He’s also been hurt a lot in his career, never compiling more than 465 at-bats in a season, and had wrist surgery last year, which is known for sapping power. And, as mentioned, he’s not much of a receiver behind the plate, nor would likely be particularly great at either first or in left.
He’s a hitter first and foremost, with the bonus ability to not totally embarrass himself at three positions. And that gives the M’s options.
If Rob Johnson’s recovery from multiple surgeries don’t go well or Moore flops in spring training, Doumit can fill in at catcher. If whatever 1B/DH they bring in has say, a herniated disc in his back that requires a rest, he can play there. If Saunders can’t hack it in left just yet, you can stick him in the outfield until Ackley’s ready. And, if the M’s hit the lotto and all the young guys play well, then you have the best 10th man in baseball.
Doumit would give the M’s flexibility and productivity. That he’s not particularly expensive and is coming off a poor season makes him exactly the kind of player Zduriencik has shown to be interested in. While the names of higher profile players float around, keep Doumit’s name in the back of your mind, and don’t be too shocked if the M’s end up making a play for him.
So what’s the right price for him, given his injury history?
In April 1998, I bought a Chevy Cavalier from Garbe Motors in Moses Lake, owned by the father of former Rainier (and Twins prospect) B.J. Garbe. So I recognize the name and remember the Columbia Basin Herald’s sportwriter writing about Doumit. So based totally on the WFB factor, I say let’s take a flyer on him. It sounds like he’s Nick Johnson (who I’ve always coveted, along with Nick Swisher) with less power but more positional flexibility.
P.S. The reason that car purchase is SUCh a big deal to me is that, 11.5 years later, I’m still driving that car.
Pretty sure I’ve told this story here before, but if not, here goes.
I went to Hickory to watch Chris Young pitch back six or seven years ago. Doumit was sitting in the seat in front of me charting pitches, having just broken his thumb the day before. Young was awful – the first 40-something pitches he threw were fastballs between 88 and 91 MPH. I asked Doumit if he had anything else, and his response was like “not really, no”, and he couldn’t come up with a reason why anyone considered him a prospect besides “he’s tall.”
Excellent find, Dave. And of course, as a Pirate making more than the MLB minimum, he’s by definition available.
So would Mark Lowe be enough compensation?
He’d give the Pirates a good closer candidate when they trade Capps, and the M’s wouldn’t miss him with Fields, Aumont, etc.
Come on, wabbles, there’s never been a Chevy Cavalier that lasted 11 years.
Great call! I really like this approach. Guys like Figgins I thought would be great for this. But I know he probably wouldnt be realistic.
I never knew Doumit had that versatility. I’d like to see him hear. Would be intersting to hear his cost. I like the thought of trying get Alex Gordon too… he can cover 1st and 3rd, so if Tui is perfroming or you get an injury at 1st you can just shuffle guys around.
18 years and counting. It’s a 1991 and had only 85,400 miles on it when I bought it (264,000 now on its second engine). It was formerly owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays. (Well OK, but I saw the former owner’s signature on the paperwork and she WAS a little old lady.) I didn’t realize Doumit had had that much success, albeit Pirate success is different from real success.
I guess the Pirates feel that they can trade Doumit since they just picked up the M’s prized catching prospect Jeff Clement. (is there a sarcasm button on this thing)
[this is not a board]
Does your justification for Doumit mean we should tuck the name Chone Figgins away as well?
A pleasant and unforeseen effect of the new front office: when I read this, I didn’t have to go a little crazy in order to make myself believe that the M’s *might* actually see things Dave’s way and pursue the player.
I think Doumit’s actual defensive work behind the plate is a little better than his reputation. He did throw out 31% of basestealers last year — which doesn’t sound like a lot, but placed him in the top 10.
Had just wrote an email to the site about this guy. We could use him as a catcher more than worry about his versatility. 28 year old who calls a good game and can be productive compared to what we’ve had or other options we are looking at right now.
I’ve always thought Doumit would be an excellent pickup and realistic fit with our team. Aside from the awesomeness he’d bring as a switch hitter who can catch, he’ll probably come cheaper than he should. Doumit was coming off a 5 win season in 2008, though it’s pretty important to point out that the effects of catcher defense cannot accurately be measured yet. As Dave points out, even if Wak can’t tolerate his D behind the dish, his versatility and reasonable contract would still allow him to be a net asset to our team. Thanks for picking up Doumit and bringing it to the masses, Dave.
While you’re looking at players from Washington State who are coming off injuries and can contribute next year… How about Jeremy Bonderman?
I like the Doumit idea. I don’t know that Zduriencik will do it, but I hope this is at least the type of move he wants to make.
I’ve been reading this site for a while, and I think for the most part, Dave’s player scouting (if you will), is pretty spot on.
But at some point doesn’t a team need some legitimate producers – be it a guy who can hit 35-40 HRs, or just get on base a ton, or whatever metric you like – to be a legitmate contender? It seems every time I read one of these articles, the players identified are just role players.
I mean, if you want to build a team that gets good value, that’s great, but not so much if you need to win 90 games to make the playoffs.
Actually, come to think of it, wasn’t there an article similar to my opinion a while ago?
When Dave says “tuck this name away,” the M’s tend to pick him up. Ryan Langerhans anyone?
Good call Dave, I’ve been tracking him for the same reasons, plus I remember the good season he had in 2008 on a fantasy team. He’s kinda Figgins or DeRosa lite and we’d be doing the Pirates a favor. I’ve been trying to think like GMZ and look for low cost pickups where others don’t see them. It’s been an interesting exercise and taught me a lot.
I am a fan of targeting Doumit. In fact, along with Erik E. and djtizzo, I proposed this about a month ago in the Kenji Opts Out thread, and recall the idea not receiving much support from other commenters (though Dave didn’t weigh in then).
I think the key is not just positional flexibility but up to four years of relatively cheap club control for a guy who is still pretty young and (thanks to injuries, so this cuts both ways) not a lot of mileage. I, too, am curious about what Dave think it might take to get him. The guy can hit, though I do worry about players switching leagues.
BTW, on Figgins – the HUGE difference between a guy like Doumit and a guy like Figgins is the cost. Figgins is going to cash in free agency and would thus limit what else the M’s could do if they signed him – and they definitely have more than just one need. [This is why I am skeptical about reports of the M's interest in John Lackey, as well.] Figgins is also a Type A free agent, so he’ll cost the team that signs him a couple of high draft picks as well. Other than positional flexibility and switch-hitting, these players are in no way similar targets.
I would think that he would be too much of a risk
at $12.5m. Especially considering how long it took him to recover from the shoulder surgery.
Also, there is this:
General manager Dave Dombrowski believes that Jeremy Bonderman will be ready to claim a spot in the Tigers’ rotation in 2010.
Don’t know if it means anything or not.
Yeah, I consider it more likely the Angels sign Beltre than the M’s sign Figgins — and I don’t think it’s all that likely the Angels will sign Beltre. Figgins is too expensive for what he is, and what he is isn’t really what the M’s need. If they had more salary room then yeah, a switch-hitting high OBP defensively flexible 3B would be great. But the M’s need to be getting more wins/$, not less, and as one of the leading “names” this offseason he comes with a premium attached (plus the draft pick). FWIW Bill James also projects him to not repeat his ’09 (’10 line: .285 / .369 / .372, for a wOBA of .337 vs .358 last year…and that’s assuming he’s not batting half his games in Safeco).
Count me as another who didn’t know of Doumit’s versatility (or that his bat could be that good). His 2008 might have been the quietest 4 WAR season ever (yay, Pittsburgh!).
BTW, since wabbles brought up B.J. Garbe, it might be fun for followers of local youth baseball to remember than Doumit, Garbe, and Jason Cooper were all members of the Columbia Basin River Dogs team that won the Senior Babe Ruth World Series in 1998. They were also classmates together at Moses Lake HS, and were all fairly high 1999 draft picks (Garbe went 5th overall; Doumit and Cooper in the second round, 59th and 63rd overall, respectively). the surplus of talent in that small area of Washington didn’t end in Moses Lake, either. Nearby Ephrata also produced M’s second rounder Jeff Heaverlo (33rd overall) that year, and the rest of the state produced seven other players drafted within the first two rounds (not counting WFB, who was a third rounder in the same draft).
None of those guys, save for Doumit, really made it though. As Stone reports, Garbe is running a casino in Wenatchee now.
Thinking along those lines, how about Chad Tracy? He has a career .792 ops, and a career high 27hr, way back in 2005. He has been mostly injured since then, and then last year when he was healthy, he lost his job to Mark Reynolds, so he hasn’t had more than about 250AB each in three years. He’s a free agent coming off a string of sub par years but he’s young enough (29) to bounce back and have some good years if he is healty. He can play the corners in both the infield and the outfield, his career UZR150 at 3rd is 3.8, and at 1st 0.5.
Here is his WAR for the last 6 years:
2004 2.0
2005 3.6
2006 2.2
2007 1.3
2008 -0.5
2009 -0.6
Jeremy Affeldt is from the Spokane area from around that time as well…the “I’ve struck out against that guy” factor has me wanting the Mariners to get him last year.
That’s an interesting idea, Kazinski, especially if he doesn’t cost too much or get too many years. Seems like a Branyan-esque 1-year “prove it” move, without as much power but better contact and still good plate discipline and strike zone judgment. I am concernd about consecutive years with a negative WAR, but will take at face value your explanation that that is due to a series of injuries and he represents a good bounce-back candidate.
Chad Tracy had one good year in 2005 and a decent year in 2006 and since then hasn’t been very good even when healthy. He would be fine as a backup 1b/3b/of/dh but not someone I would want as an everyday starter. I don’t think the power he has would translate well from Chase Field to Safeco and his OBP isn’t good enough to compensate.
He hasn’t been able to hit for 3 years now and his fielding has taken the same dive. I don’t really see him as a viable option. Don’t we already have a DH that can’t really hit but walks alot? (Yes I know, the tickles and ice cream pie tossing make him super)
Tracy’s WAR line certainly shows decline, which is worrisome, but who is suggesting he be acquired as “an everyday starter?” The theme of this post is guys who come reasonably-priced who provide competition and depth for young in-house candidates who are good but not quite good enough to have job security. Tracy is a decent candidate for that kind of acquisition, if (and it is a BIG “if”) he comes cheaply.
I feel like we already have some good versatility guys, and our bench space is already tight with Griffey in the mix (who I believe will not end up as the starting DH, I except/hope the Ms will sign someone, as that is one of the positions that is easiest for us to upgrade).
However as Dave says, we dont have a versatility guy who can also hit. We have good fielding/no bat versatile guys, and we have a reasonable bat with no ability to field in Griffey.
Doumit makes 3.5 and 5 million the next two years. If we get him, he needs to give at least 1 WAR, and if we are trading anything of value, probably more than that.
How would we fit him into the lineup enough to get the required produiction from him? Would this be a sort of McLemore super-utility man scenario? Or would he end up being the regular at one of these positions, based on which player whose position he can play was performing the worst?
Thanks!
Pete,
Yes, I suppose he’d be tolerable as a spring training “go get ‘em” kind of guy. I’m really not all that comfortable with him holding a roster spot though, as he really doesn’t have much in the way of flexibility. Sure he could play 1b/3b but not well. I think they may be looking for something a bit better, even at a higher cost.
I like the idea in general. Someone who can catch at least a couple times a week, plus has enough bat to play some 1B/DH/LF. Would certainly be a nice compliment to defense-first supersubs like Hannahan and Langerhans.
A couple years ago I was reading a number of pirate blogs (around the time they switched GM’s). I know at least a few of the blogs abhorred Doumit’s “skills” behind the plate (though realize these are bloggers, not scouts).
It would be interesting to see the front office trade away Clement one year and bring in Doumit the next. Wonder what Doumit would cost in terms of trade value. So far the Pirates front office has seemed to value quantity over quality (the Bay, McLouth, and Snell/Wilson trades didn’t bring back any elite prospects, but rather a handful of good prospects). Of course, this probably has as much to do with the guys the Pirates were trading away as organizational philosophy. Still, it at least signals that they wouldn’t be unreasonable in their Doumit requests.
I think the biggest factor is whether Wak and the front office trust Doumit to catch (health wise and skill-wise) at least 2-3 times per week. If so, then he is a great target. If not, then I wouldn’t bother.
This is great to hear, Dave.
I’ve been hoping the M’s would have interest in him (and that you’d write about it) for the last few years now. I never posted the idea because I thought you’d blast me for it for one reason or another.
I’ve always thought he’d be a perfect utility player in the right situation.
Awesome!
AZ declined their 2010 option for Tracy, and coming off 2 -WAR years, why wouldn’t he come cheaply?
For Tracy the upside in the M’s is a park that favors LH hitters and having a shot at a starting job or at least significant playing time available.
As for Tracy’s issues for 2006 and 2007 I think it was knee tendonitous and last year it was the oblique, from MLBtraderumors:
Because he hasn’t been healthy I think there is some upside to both his defense and offense over the last couple of seasons. You can throw out Tracy’s UZR for the past three seasons because the sample size is too small, but over all in his career he has had a positive UZR at both 3rd and 1st. I don’t know enough about his injury status and conditioning to know if he can regain that. If he was 33 or 34 he wouldn’t be worth looking at, but at 29 he looks to be a cheap piece that could be fill in some innings at DH and the corners, both infield and outfiled. As for Tracy’s declining WAR, you have to look at what is behind the numbers, he hasn’t been playing regularly. 3 consecutive seasons of under 300AB, in between injuries, makes it pretty hard to evaluate a player.
There are a lot of simlarities between Doumit and Tracy, they’ve both been in the league since 2005, have identical career WARs (8.1 vs. 8.0) and have been injured a lot. The edge goes to Doumit in defensive flexibility, I don’t think he’d be your 2nd catcher unless the starter plays 80% of the time, but as a utility guy he can keep you from having to call someone up if one of your other catchers is banged up for a couple of days, or pinch hit for your catcher and stay in the game. Doumit also has been more successful lately with although his career OPS is lower than Tracy’s (.780 vs .792). And the biggest plus, Doumit isn’t useless against left handed pitching, Tracy just can’t hit lefties.
Tracy’s only advantage is he is available as a FA, and cheap, you could probably sign him for 2 years for 1/3 of what you’d have to pay Doumit thru 2011. But I think Doumit would be the better choice as long as you didn’t have to give up anything useful for him.
[off-topic]
Chad Tracy is one that the Mariners could look at if they wanted to bring on a high risk/high reward player. His recent injury history and sub-par play certainly pose a risk, but it’s certainly very possible that he could put in a good year for the Mariners.
Another guy that comes to mind in that risk category is [another guy. Look, people, when the post is about a *specific* name, it's not an excuse to throw in any other random name]
I don’t know how random the name is, but what else are we supposed to do with our time 3 months before the start of spring training? Its 4:57 and its pitch black outside with another front coming in. Its not like random name is keeping us from focusing on something important.
I don’t know how random the name is, but what else are we supposed to do with our time 3 months before the start of spring training? Its 4:57 and its pitch black outside with another front coming in. Its not like random name is keeping us from focusing on something important.
I actually love Doumit, but I wonder how cheap of a price you can get for him. Do other teams appreciate his value?
Man, I would be so pumped to get him. For no other reason, perhaps, that it’s another reason to not have Rob Johnson play.
Doumit would definately be a welcomed addition. We could get him for a good price right? I know his contract is favorable, but his injury risk is there. By the way free agency begins in an 1hour and 15 minutes. This is going to be a great offseason!
Doumit, can play 1b,rf,and C. He’s had problems in the past with his hands/wrist taking foul balls off of them had the broken bone in the wrist last year. He came back was in a slump most of the season and got benched a few games by John Russell for not hustling. I think the Pirates will wait to deal him with the payroll at only 32 mil it also depends on if Kerrigan and Doumit mend their relationship or not if Doumit stays around.
I did post some random names because I saw other posters do the same. But they really had nothing to do with the topic.
And though the moderation note was attached to your comment, it wasn’t meant to single anybody out. It’s not always clear midstream what the best balance is between openness to discussion and staying on a coherent topic, and that was an attempt to refocus things. I thought about cracking down when Chad Tracy was brought up, but let it slide since he was at least plausibly an alternative in the “offensive potential with positional flexibility” category. But when that seemed to stimulate random suggestions without even a tenuous relationship to the original topic, it was time to step in.
To return to the topic at hand, I note that Doumit has shown significantly better power righthanded in his career. I’m all for more switch-hitters, but I wonder if he still might get punished a bit too much by Safeco Field.
I suppose we could talk about the topic at hand…
I can’t recall how many times i’ve brought up random players as fits for our team and just been bashed by the “WAR” believers and wanna be GM’s on this site about how they think its impossible. That being said, this is a great suggestion. Ryan Doumit is one year removed from a .318 AVG, 15HR’s, 69RBI’s, 137 hits in only 431 AB’s. I love his versatility and his upside.
On a side note, i could dissagree more with trading Jose Lopez. Just couldn’t be any more sick of you suggesting that.
Jose Lopez might be the M’s new first baseman. Doumit isnt a bad player i just think the Pirates might hold onto him to try to get more down the line , unless they get a good piece in return for him.
Wag, if you’re going to continue to just complain about the site every time you post, then go away.
Can’t take being told your ideas might suck? Sorry if i offended you. Your points are as valid as mine. Thats all I’ll say.
I should clarify that I’m not trying to undercut Dave and whoever is montoring the thread (likely Dave) the only reason I brought up Chad Tracy is because it seemed to fit Dave’s theme of:
If random player doesn’t fit that criteria then moderate away. Having said that there are those of us out there that are not football fans, haven’t segwayed into basketball yet, and frankly the idea of actually doing work during the day sets off waves of nausea worse than the swine flu, need something to talk about.
I hate to admit it but I came pretty close to posting something about “he who shall not be named in context with Brandon Morrow” winning the NL Cy Young today. But it was off topic so I restrained myself.
Basketball on Segways, I’d like to see that.
Can’t take being told your ideas might suck? Sorry if i offended you. Your points are as valid as mine. Thats all I’ll say.
Go start your own blog, then. As long as you’re in our house, you play by our rules. So stop whining. This is your last warning. No one here will miss you if you keep this crap up.
[goodbye]
That is definitely where I part company with Wag. I like Jose, but he and the Mariners would be better off with him sent down the road. As impressive as his HR totals were, they are not the sum total of an offensive player. Jose would hit more home runs in a friendlier park and we would be happier with a player that gets on base more, takes more pitches, and has more to his game than lining a ball 5′ past the LF foul pole once every 25AB.
Those are below average skills for a 2b, and roster killing skills for a 1b or 3b. The balancing act the Mariners have to pull off this offseason, is to get better marginally offensively, without getting worse defensively. Replacing Jose at 2nd with a better offensive player, and hopefully defensively too is one of our few opportunities. Jose at 1st or 3rd doesn’t add more defensively than his offensive limitations take away.
Your points are as valid as mine. Thats all I’ll say.
This is ridiculous. They’re not. Dave knows his stuff inside and out, back to front, and up and down. He has contacts with scouts, front offices, and at the cutting edge of active research. You are a man with a computer and an opinion.
When you put in the work Dave has, people will value your input accordingly.
Actually, I generally think you have to show your work (you do get partial credit around here when you do the work–start with the statistical foundation and reason from there).
The problem here is that he DID show his work….
Even when the apple has a worm, Mike Snow presents the shiny side. Are you in sales by chance?
Your points are generally misguided and your responses tend to be rather combative. That is not how we carry ourselves here.
Good luck on whatever Fox blog you end up joining. I’m sure you’ll learn absolutely nothing there.
Are you in sales by chance?
Goodness no, not in the slightest. I just like to find entertaining twists to inadvertent errors. It’s more fun for everybody else than me harping on my pet peeves (waver/waiver, rein/reign, cache/cachet, etc.).
It definitely is more entertaining. (How does then/than strike you?) heh
(How does then/than strike you?)
Well, the editor in me will want to fix the mistakes, but that’s an ordinary typo. It’s not nearly as grating as the others, which are epidemic in sportswriting and suggest a certain literary pretension without actually having mastered the literary skills to use the words correctly.
Aren’t the terms “sportswriter” and “literary skills” mutually exclusive?
Not necessarily, the field has always had truly talented writers, ranging from David Halberstam to Ralph Wiley to Bill Simmons according to your tastes. But when your run-of-the-mill hack columnists try to emulate that kind of artistic talent, they have a tendency to get intellectually overextended.
I thought the general topic was “potential M’s acquisitions” and the specific topic was “players with positional flexibility” plus offense. Accordingly, Dave proceeded to make the case that Doumit is the player that best fits the criteria (i.e., the topic). So, if the (specific) topic was really Ryan Doumit, perhaps the title should have been “Ryan Doumit: A name to tuck away” or at least he could have been mentioned before the 6th paragraph. This is not a criticism of the post, just an observation directed at any would be topic Nazis.
A player that can hit with “positional flexibility” is certainly valuable, but a CATCHER along those lines is the holy grail of versatility. With Moore and Johnson being so inexperienced, Doumit could be an ideal pickup.
[off-topic]
As a Mariner, I think we would quickly find quotation marks appearing around Doumit’s position whenever he appeared as the backstop on our lineup card.
I don’t think the Doumit thing will happen, at least not before the season starts. The Pirates were very high on him but he slumped badly after he returned from the wrist injury. But he did hit very well in September. For 3.5MM, I think they’ll at least wait to see how he does and move him either before the trading deadline (unless they’re contending – just kidding) or before next season. It’s a pretty good gamble. If he comes anywhere close to approaching his ’08 numbers they’ll be able to get a lot more for him.
That’s a good point Mike. I might also add Art Thiel to that list.
I love posts like these.
I was focusing on national names, but Thiel is a good writer, yes.
@KingCorran
Similar to the ones that belong around Rob Johnson’s name when Johnson is in the lineup?
Pardon, I was just looking at writers worth reading. I really hadn’t considered whether they were national or not. (yet more proof of my attention span I suppose)
Oh, I didn’t mean the discussion should be limited to national names. I just meant that’s the kind I thought about to come up with my examples, so someone like Thiel didn’t occur to me. Your attention span is fine, considering that we’ve managed to keep this exchange going all day.
As a Pirates fan, I had been thinking about possible destinations for Doumit in the event that he’s traded (which, for the record, I don’t think is a given, as his contract is very team-friendly and long enough that he has a chance to be a solid contributor when the Bucs are ready to compete), and the Ms and the Rays seem like the logical places for him to end up. I agree with Dave on this point. Unfortunately, I’m not sure the Ms match up with the Bucs as trade partners. The Pirates need MIs and SPs, and I’d imagine they’d want for Doumit something like the package they got for McLouth, which was the numbers 4 and 7 prospects in the Atlanta organization, plus a major-league ready SP. I doubt the Ms want to trade Triunfel, and I don’t see what’s left to make a deal work. Any ideas?