Figgins deal official
Dave · December 8, 2009 at 1:52 pm · Filed Under Mariners
The Chone Figgins deal that we’ve known about since Friday is now in the books and official.
Most interesting comment from Zduriencik at his meeting with the press, per Geoff Baker: Figgins is “an infielder” – won’t commit to him as a third baseman, but apparently will rule him out of left field. Still hard to see Beltre taking a big enough pay cut to make it worthwhile for the M’s after declining arbitration.
Jack then tells Mike Salk on 710 ESPN that Figgins “can play all over the field, but I don’t see that happening, I think he’ll settle in at one position.”
YEAAAHH! Now go get Nick Johnson, re-sign The muscle, and go get Harden. Then we should be close the to 90+ wins we need to win the divison.
Now what comes next…….
Welcome Chone! I hope that I can soon see your name and not hear it phonetically in my head.
Now I have to get used to being a fan of Figgins, rather than wishing bodily injury whenever he steps to the plate.
And I really do need to learn how to pronounce his first name.
Heh, Twitter down. USSM up and happy.
Either that or he needs to learn how to spell his first name.
And the Anaheim daily’s sports section says…
“FIGGINS ‘CHONE’ THE DOOR”
Great news. Great, great news. I love the flexibility he’ll give us, and it will be nice to have a patient guy at the top of the order; I know he’s not Beltre with the glove, but it sounds like the dropoff shouldn’t be too bad. One does wonder if, given that we’ll be losing our #1 for this, if ownership will compensate by letting the Z-men go over slot for a first-round talent lower down in the draft.
On a side note, Derek, could you add Dave’s “Mariner writers” Twitter page to the sidebar (maybe under “local M’s coverage”)?
Remember? His full name is Desmond DeChone Figgins. It’s of Irish ancestry, apparently.
Oh, and Jeff/Todd: Figgins already knows how to spell his first name: D-e-s-m-o-n-d. (His full name is Desmond DeChone Figgins.)
It’s a nickname.
In stereo, no less . . . :/
Looks more like surround sound. ;0)
The sign I must now construct for opening day 2010:
You’ve Been CHOWND!
That is so brilliant.
I know it’s spelled “Chone†but it’s actually pronounced Bartholomew. You can call him Sean for short though.
Pronouncing ‘DeChone’ as ‘DeSean’ seems a lot less wierd than pronouncing ‘Chone’ as ‘Sean’.
May he annoy our opponents with both his name and his OBP.
Can someone remind me how something works with draft pick compensation?
If the M’s were to go out and sign Lackey, do they only have to give the Angels their first round pick, or both their first and second?
Also, same question, but with them getting a Type A guy from another org? Do they lose one or both, and which team gets the higher pick?
I seem to recall reading in years past about teams being “screwed” out of their compensation pick. This is a bad time of year to google “arbitration,” so I’m not having a ton of luck.
Great sign by JZ! Just need Harden and Bradley, which looks imminent, and were then heading in the right direction. Just heard from buddy in Indy, Bradley for Silva and Lopez! Grab O-Dog and oh my, what a winter!!!
If we sign Lackey, we give the Angels the top 2.
If we sign another type A, then if he is higher on the Elias rankings list, then we give #1 to that team and #2 to the Angels. But if Figgins were higher we still give the Angels #1 and give #2 to the other team.
Our Beltre pick is not given away in any circumstance, its between rounds 1 and 2.
Still a longshot but waving goodbye to Beltre may have been a bit premature. Beltre at 3B, Figgins at 2B and Lopez on the trade block or moved to first?
Bradley: 2 more years at $10M each.
Silva: 2 more years at $12.5M each.
We save 5 million and get a 1-2 win player for two years, thats about $18 Million in value or so by giving away silva and gettime milton. That seems like more value than we have left in control of Lopez.
But with Milton we dont really need another OF, so that takes away value to us. It would probably only work if we could then move Milton Bradley to someone.
M’s not interested in Bradley, per Larry Stone and logic.
Dave can you make a quick logic argument? Good fourth OF/DH platoon mate and get rid of Silva? Is that roster spot too valuable?
Silva: 10:$11.5M, 11:$11.5M, 12:$12M mutual option ($2M buyout)
Lopez: 10:$2.3M, 11: $4.5M club option ($0.25M buyout)
Bradley: 10:$9M, 11:$12M plus a goofy club option clause if he ended ‘09 on the DL.
Also add that Z said today in the Figgins announcement that the teams is targeting players that want to be here. And the fact that nobody is reporting in twitter about it makes me think that this is just a lame rumor.
No thanks on Milton Bradley even if it meant unloading Silva.
Definitely. But we are interested in dumping Silva. Maybe we could then manage to dump Bradley?
Looking at the $ of those contracts, losing lopez definitely istn worth the savings if you dont want Bradley.
M’s, just like almost every time in baseball, feel like Bradley isn’t worth the hassle.
Okay, I guess I was just thinking all the hugs could make him anti-cancer.
Dave, Regarding the need for a DH,
I’ve been assuming that Griffey will not be our full time DH…like he’ll start 40 games at DH and be the late inning left-handed bat off the bench and therefore the M’s will be looking for 2 hitters, like a 1B and a DH. Is Griffey blocking the possibility of signing 2 hitters – like both Branyan and Johnson?
It’s good to see more Irish guys on the team.
Shannon Dreyer has a new post up and says signing Beltre may not be as big a longshot as originally thought. More than anything, Beltre wants to play for a winner and have a shot at the playoffs so the Figgins signing might actually help motivate him to return to the M’s.
The hugs left with Sweeney. All that they have remaining are tickles and ice cream pies. Bradley doesn’t strike me as a very tickle-friendly type of chap.
Milton Bradley may be a 1-2 win guy statistically – but those of us who followed the Cubs closely last year know he’s about a -10 win guy with his antics and attitude.
I thought it was Throatwarblermangrove.
Don’t forget Carlos Silva, The Kissing Bandit.
Ok, so swap Silva for him, and then just cut him.
Welcome to Seattle, Chone…glad to have you aboard!
And I have a feeling that, if someone tried to hit MB with an ice cream pie, he’d probably try to make them eat the tin.
I realize the allure of a hitter like Milton Bradley, but there are occasions where the personality is just too poor to ignore. This is one of those times. There’s no way we should be going after Bradley, even if it means keeping Carlos Silva. There are malcontents, there are clubhouse cancers, and there is Milton Bradley in a league all his own.
Bigtime congrats to the M’s on the Figgins deal, too. I’m stoked to have a 3-4 WAR player on our team that fits our ballpark.
Not that they would, but according to the numbers on Cot’s, they could salvage $4 Million by doing that.
Silva:
2010: $11.5
2011: $11.5
2012: $2M Buyout
Total $25M
Bradley:
2010: $9M
2011: $12M
Total $21M
What about Hank Blalock at third if we can’t get Beltre. Isn’t he a free agent. He seems like a good lefty power bat, even if he does strike out a lot. I haven’t heard his name at all but I think he is a free agent (I might be wrong). Does anyone else think he would be a good fit for Seattle. I haven’t looked at his numbers so don’t yell at me to much if this is a horrible decision. After thinking this over in my head however, we would probably just stick with Figgins at third if we can’t work anything out with Beltre. I am exited though. Go Mariners!!!
I do so love Monty Python, and glad to see someone else appreciates that sketch.
I have the feeling I’m going to love Chone too, however people chose to pronounce it.
I like the idea of Chone hitting second behind Ichiro. Ichiro gets a lot of pitches per AB, but it’s accidental. He’s swings a lot and manages to foul off pitches until he gets one he can put in play. That’s fine for a #1, but Figgins is going to go up there and be very selective and take some pitches. So if Ichiro has a 7 pitch AB, its pretty likely, especially if Ichiro gets on, that by the time the pitcher is through with Figgins he’s thrown 12-13 pitches, and if both get on he’s already looking at a 25 pitch inning and a half dozen throws over to first base. Ichiro and Figgens have both averaged a .386OBP over the last 3 years. Then if you have Nick Johnson, Jr, Branyan, Guti, or some other reasonably patient hitter hitting 3rd, it gets even worse.
I’m looking forward to seeing a fair amount of 30 pitch first innings next year.
What about Hank Blalock at third if we can’t get Beltre.
I beleive he’s been restricted to DH the last couple of years due to injury. Can anyone confirm that?
What I Like
- We took him from a division rival
- He gives us great flexibility
- Keeps with our defensive philosophy
However, i’m not sold that adding nick johnson and/or Branyan and a vet pitcher makes us any better than last year. Washburn and Bedard (when he played) were fantastic for us last year. It also dosen’t completly bridge the 12 game gap between us and the Angels last year.
The Angels are going to make some deals this off season and at least one big splash.
In addition to Branyan/Johnson and vet pitcher, I would like to see us make a move for a vet catcher (ex: Ryan Doumit from Pittsburg or Navarro from Tampa). Still not sure that puts us ahead of the Angels, but with our young talent in addition to this team, were set for the future and the present.
According to Fangraphs, Blalock played in 123 games last year. He only logged 67 in the field, 66 at 1B (for 564.2 innings) and 1 at 3B (for 9.0 innings). In those 123 games, he logged 495 PA’s, which is an average of 4/G.
I think it’s safe to say he spent ~56 full games at DH.
In 2008, he played 65 games–all in the field: 31 at 3B and 34 at 1B. In 2007, 39 of 68 games were played in the field–all at third.
So, I wouldn’t call this description of his fielding situation accurate, but I also wouldn’t call adding Blalock a hopeful or reassuring move unless we were positioning him at 1B in lieu of Branyan/Johnson.
I’m not thrilled with Figgins at 2B and Lopez at 1B. Figgins could probably be better than Lopez at 2B if he played there every day but the fact is that he hasn’t shown that plus fielding at 2B at this point in his career. Lopez, on the other hand, would be a poor hitting first baseman and would lose a lot of his value. I think this move would hurt the team overall.
Hopefully they have more up their sleeve than this. I could live with Beltre at 3B and Figgins at 2B if we traded Lopez and got a better bat for 1B.
I’d put the likelihood of Lopez playing first base at about -3 percent.
The Granderson deal apparently has put Swish potentially back on the market. Not that any of us are in the mindset to further help the Yanks cement the 2010 WS title, but I wonder if the current state of the M’s roster has Dave again interested in bringing Swish to the PacNW?
I’d rather see Figgins lead off and Ichiro in the 2-slot. Figgins takes pitches, like a leadoff hitter should, and with him on base it opens up the 3-hole on the right side for Ichi to pull through (not that he’s a pull-hitter, but opening up the infield for a ground-ball hitter is a good thing). Plus, Ichi has better xtra base numbers, meaning he’s more likely to score Figgins from 1B on a double than vice versa.
Lopez isn’t a fit for this team, and with a couple options available to replace him, I’d expect to see him move. IMO Lopez is a perfect trade chip for Ryan Doumit. It would almost have to be a three way trade considering the Pirates just acquired Akinori Iwamura. Someone will want Lopez as he will almost certainly outperform his contract. Lopez to team X, player Y to the Pirates, Doumit to the Mariners. Seems easy enough.
Thanks to Kenji for making this deal possible.
Hear, hear!
The leadoff hitter’s job is to get on base, by any means possible. The 2 hitter needs to take pitches so the leadoff hitter has a chance to steal. (I guess every hitter’s job is to get on base, but especially the leadoff).
Personally, I think that Ichiro staying in the leadoff spot is the best solution.
I just have a feeling that too many of his wacky infield hits would turn into a fielder’s choice if there was already a runner on first.
Jeff,
That was exactly the same argument I had with a buddy last night. He insists that Figgins should lead off because his walks would help Ichiro! by giving him a huge hole through which to hit.
My thought is that with Ichiro! leading off and getting those goofy hits, how is it a bad thing if Figgins walks behind him? It puts 2 speedy guys on with no outs, which decreases the chance of the #3 hitter hitting a DP ball.
I wouldn’t find it hopeful or reassuring to have Blalock even if we were putting him at 1B.
Ichiro doesn’t really need that help, though.
Take a quick look at this article on Fangraphs.
I know that and you know that, but he’s a bit stubborn. Even when I got him to admit that Ichiro! isn’t a pull hitter, he still stuck by his original idea. I finally just had to let it drop.
Well, point him at Ichiro’s career splits at B-R:
Ichiro’s batting average with bases empty: .331 (.799 OPS)
Ichiro’s batting average with man on first: .331 (.790 OPS)
I guess he could counter with his average with a man on second (.370) suggesting Figgins first get on and then steal, but Figgins gets CS a lot and there’s less confidence in that average anyway due to sample size. (Plus pitchers that get into that situation with Ichiro at the plate — keeping in mind that man on second must have been from the bottom of the M’s lineup — are probably going to be giving up lots of hits in general).
Jeff, I agree with your assesment (not that you need MY validation). My first thought was to hit Ich #2, but after reflection and the excellent point about his IF hits, most of which go to the L side, I think it would be a big mistake to bat him second.
Looking at them using only basic statistical information, it would seem obvious to have the more patient bat hitting #1, but Ich is such a unique talent at the plate that he should stay in place. He wields his bat like a kendo master, and I long ago quit worrying about him swinging at everything. Chone can act in the lead-off role at #2 by taking pitches, which he does well, and HIS plate discipline will be the irritant at the top of the order.
Should be damned interesting and a whole lot of fun. 117 days.
To address a couple of points from different posters and add my own:
1) A leadoff hitter’s job is to take pitches as well, as he is the first look at what the pitcher has working that day
2) Ichiro’s numbers need to be looked at in context…just because his hits are evenly spread from the leadoff spot doesn’t mean he can’t use the 3-hole…as a leadoff hitter he hasn’t HAD to…if they’re trying to score runs (this is what I’m looking at, not “does it help Ichiro get hits”) and Figgins is on in front of him, he’s as good as anyone at directing the ball, so it’s a good bet he can use that hole more when he needs to.
3) RE: using the 3-hole while hitting behind Figgins, Scioscia said yesterday he thinks Figgins is the best in the league at going 1st to 3rd…why not use that?
4) RE: Ichiro’s left-side IF singles being turned into fielder’s choices – again, context is needed…when a double play situation is in order, middle infielders pinch toward the bag and take a step or two in…this opens up the infield more, it doesn’t close it down