Trade Official

Dave · December 16, 2009 at 11:58 am · Filed Under Mariners 

The Mariners got Cliff Lee for Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and J.C. Ramirez.

I still can’t believe it. Amazing. Just ridiculous. There’s still more work to be done, but right now, the M’s and Angels are about equals in terms of talent. Given a couple more good moves, the team could easily be considered the favorites to win the AL West next year.

Comments

67 Responses to “Trade Official”

  1. zzyzx on December 16th, 2009 11:59 am

    How did we do this? I’m still confounded.

  2. adroit on December 16th, 2009 12:00 pm

    Amazing! I kept expecting to see another surprise name in the list of prospects.

  3. BLYKMYK44 on December 16th, 2009 12:01 pm

    What would those moves consist of? Would Dr. Z. be able to convince ownership to give him a few more dollars to make those moves?

  4. mattlock on December 16th, 2009 12:02 pm

    So remind me what the to-do list is now? And what is the budget left in which to accomplish that? This past week has absolutely wasted my capacity to rationally comprehend baseball, despite the fact that I’ve also started reading Moneyball too. :)

  5. xxtinynickxx on December 16th, 2009 12:03 pm

    I am almost gonna cry haha this is rad! My god whats next please be an another awesome deal!

  6. Holmes on December 16th, 2009 12:04 pm

    Thank God

  7. Beniitec on December 16th, 2009 12:05 pm

    Way to go Jack! Um…just wow.

  8. robbbbbb on December 16th, 2009 12:05 pm

    How did we do this? Jack Z is a magician. A negotiator par excellence.

    Dave said it yesterday: Z is the best GM in the majors. And the M’s need to lock him up to a longterm deal.

  9. thebigp708 on December 16th, 2009 12:06 pm

    I’m actually weeping… It’s as though the baseball gods have rewarded us for putting up with years of Bavasi

  10. cmbates on December 16th, 2009 12:07 pm

    I’m pretty sure my coworkers think I’m a freak right now, but I don’t care. I’m doing my celebratory happy dance anyway!

  11. MsofEnchantment on December 16th, 2009 12:07 pm

    Queue: Elation!

  12. Beniitec on December 16th, 2009 12:07 pm

    I can hear the sigh coming from the Angels…

  13. SCL on December 16th, 2009 12:08 pm

    Remember Chris Antonetti? Neither do I.

    Seriously Jack, save a few millions to sign yourself to a 20 year contract.

  14. Adam B. on December 16th, 2009 12:09 pm

    *exhale*

    “WOOOHOOO.”

    My heart goes out to the fans in Philadelphia who just felt first hand, what it feels like to be on the Bavasi end of a major trade–Though not so much as to return Lee.

    Enjoy your right-handed relievers and 4th outfielder.

  15. opiate82 on December 16th, 2009 12:09 pm

    How did we do this?

    Basically we got the Phillies to subsidize the amount of talent needed to acquire a Cy Young caliber pitcher. Nice work Jack!

  16. joser on December 16th, 2009 12:10 pm

    How did we do this? I’m still confounded.

    Zduriencik is The Shadow. He has the power to cloud minds.

  17. georgmi on December 16th, 2009 12:11 pm

    Done deal!

    No backsies!

  18. JerBear on December 16th, 2009 12:16 pm

    And there was great rejoicing in the land!!!

    What a shocker – I went to lunch thinking this would take another day at best, and came back to this announcement – I still can’t believe Jack pulled this off…. December 16th is officially Jack Zduriencik day!

  19. diderot on December 16th, 2009 12:16 pm

    Hooray for us.

    Now on to the Johnson/Branyan/LaRoche/Scott conversation!

  20. gmcm2000 on December 16th, 2009 12:19 pm

    Yessssssss, was a little bit concerned about the failed medical rumours, but great work Jack Z.

    next priority get felix tied up to a new deal.

  21. andrewjsnider on December 16th, 2009 12:20 pm

    Zduriencik is The Shadow. He has the power to cloud minds.

    What evil other steals lurks in the hearts of men? Zduriencik knows!!!

  22. BobbyAyalaFan4Life on December 16th, 2009 12:21 pm

    GM Z had better watch out…arms robbery becomes a federal offense when you cross state lines :)
    Seriously though, this is tremendous.
    Also, where does this leave us now financially for the rest of this offseason? Also, do you think this trade helps or hurts our chances of resigning Felix?

  23. joser on December 16th, 2009 12:24 pm

    Over at Halos Heaven they’re bragging about all the visitors they got Monday… not realizing that most of them were M’s fans getting a little dose of delicious schadenfreude.

  24. jjenson on December 16th, 2009 12:24 pm

    This has been a truly amazing offseason so far and we probably aren’t even close to to finished give him a couple more months to find the next deal like this and we might actually contend next season.

    I have loved what Jack Z can do and honestly I hope he stays for a long time. I am excited to see the final team he puts out there this upcoming season. Funny part is he will have even more money next season so if he can lock up Felix this season then get rid of the 12 million silva is due and give that to lee honestly we could have the best 1-2 punch in baseball for years to come would love to see this happen. But either way very excited.

  25. Shrike on December 16th, 2009 12:25 pm

    This life-long Blue Jays fan is donning black for the departure of Roy Halladay. On the other hand, it will be a lot of fun coming down from Vancouver to watch the Mariners play … I’m still stunned by the prospect of watching King Felix and Cliff Lee pitch back-to-back games.

  26. coreyjro on December 16th, 2009 12:26 pm

    Must…not…rosterbate…(we need an updated offseason plan Dave)

    Yay! for having two of the top 5 pitchers in baseball!

  27. jjenson on December 16th, 2009 12:27 pm

    Oh yeah and when teh season ended just think of anyone saying we could trade these 3 players for Lee and think of how that person would have been flamed for even proposing such a trade.

    Makes you think anything is possible with the right people running the team :)

  28. poetfiend on December 16th, 2009 12:27 pm

    Zduriencik is The Shadow. He has the power to cloud minds.
    Did I say Captain Z before?
    No, Obi-Wan Zduriencik.
    Happy Holidays everyone!

  29. KaminaAyato on December 16th, 2009 12:27 pm

    Zduriencik is The Shadow. He has the power to cloud minds.

    Jack Z: These are the prospects that you think you need.
    Amaro: There are the prospects that I think I need…

    Sorry. Had to do that.

  30. Matt Y on December 16th, 2009 12:28 pm

    We probably will not have the money to keep both Lee and Felix but you cannot say enough about Jack Z. and the ease in which he makes these moves happen. In most cases they are low risk-high reward type moves. Something we haven’t seen in a long time.

  31. Sports on a Schtick on December 16th, 2009 12:30 pm

    Best Christmas gift of my life.

  32. diderot on December 16th, 2009 12:31 pm

    OK, I know it was a press release, but still, I think this is a very classy and human thing to say (from Z):

    We gave up three very nice prospects to Philadelphia. I think they will be a nice piece of the Phillies’ future, and I want to thank Tyson, Phillippe and JC, and let them know we’ll be rooting for them as they progress toward the majors.

  33. Iowa Ms Fan on December 16th, 2009 12:33 pm

    Since the deal is done and Fox Sports says we’re talking with the Brewers about dealing Morrow. Can we get Prince in return? (I kid of course.)

  34. coreyjro on December 16th, 2009 12:35 pm

    Since the deal is done and Fox Sports says we’re talking with the Brewers about dealing Morrow. Can we get Prince in return? (I kid of course.)

    I’m pretty sure this means that it’s definitely not gonna happen. Zduriencik deals have to come completely out of nowhere right?

  35. Sykes423 on December 16th, 2009 12:37 pm

    The McGinn Administration’s first order of business ought to be declaring December 16th an official civic holiday (Jack Z Day? Contention Day?) going forward.

  36. egreenlaw9 on December 16th, 2009 12:37 pm

    You know what’s even crazier about all of this?

    Per Z’s interview with Brock & Salk, the discussion started with the MARINERS talking to Toronto about acquiring Halladay, who then mentioned they were in discussions with a NL club too.

    Wow.

    Z actually backed off a bit by taking Lee. That’s simply amazing.

  37. georgmi on December 16th, 2009 12:39 pm

    After this deal, I don’t think we settle for anything short of Albert Pujols at first base.

  38. kozmo on December 16th, 2009 12:40 pm

    Rick Adair just mentioned an 11 man pitching staff on Brock and Salk. All the assertions that they WILL carry 12 might turn out to be wrong.

    I know that doesn’t really say anything about what the roster will be like at the end of spring training, but it is something to think about simply because he mentioned it.

  39. horatiosanzserif on December 16th, 2009 12:40 pm

    BTW: Rosenthal says the mystery gimp w/ the potentially bummer physical was Wallace.

  40. MsofEnchantment on December 16th, 2009 12:42 pm

    After this heist, it wouldn’t shock me to see Lopez to the Orioles to play 3B for Scott, straight up.

    Add Beltre (provided the Boston opportunity dries up) or let Tui play second.

    Then add the cheaper of Branyan/Johnson/LaRoche to split time at DH/1B with Scott and you’ve got a sick club headed into spring training. Angels’ fans are rolling over right now.

  41. bram on December 16th, 2009 12:43 pm

    After the Woodward and Bavasi years, this feels amazing.

  42. Sparhawk2k on December 16th, 2009 12:45 pm

    I hadn’t seen that yet but it’s really cool (even more so in a press release I think) to comment on rooting for the prospects.

  43. TradeYouForHeathcliffSlocumb on December 16th, 2009 12:49 pm

    I’ve been trying to decide between a Gutierrez jersey and a Felix jersey, but now I think I want to have a Zduriencik jersey made…

  44. Sykes423 on December 16th, 2009 12:52 pm

    do you think Big Z has an evil laugh that he uncorks after he pulls off these trades?

    Wait, so you want Aumont *and* J.C. for Cliff Lee? … Well, ok, Ruben, but only because it’s you … Yes, fax the paperwork over here … Give our best to Pat, Raul and Jamie … Bye now.

    MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH MWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHA

  45. fiftyone on December 16th, 2009 1:01 pm

    but now I think I want to have a Zduriencik jersey made…

    Oh yes. What he said.

  46. Kazinski on December 16th, 2009 1:01 pm

    Z actually backed off a bit by taking Lee. That’s simply amazing.

    Z didn’t back off of anything. Halladay made it clear that the Mariners were not on his list of acceptable teams. Lee didn’t have a choice, other than offering Phillie a below market extension.

  47. tres_arboles on December 16th, 2009 1:02 pm

    As a Phillies fan living in Seattle, I’d been thinking that this was a nice, even epic three-way deal that did very positive things for all three teams involved. So I’m surprised at the few gleeful assertions that Amaro got “fleeced” or that the Phils got “Bavasi-ed.”

    Sure there are some Phillies fans that don’t understand why a Halliday-Lee-Hamels triumverate at the top of the rotation was impossible. And those guys might agree that the deal “doesn’t make sense” for Philly. But Rusakoff did a pretty simple breakdown of why Lee couldn;t be kept here.

    A couple of relict mid-priced contracts, (including that of the beloved Jamie Moyer) put the Phils in a financial situation combined with desire to put Roy at the top of the rotation helped dictate the rest of the deal. And although we can always discount the value of prospects, even top ones, the pieces Philly picked up from the M’s are going to be useful in the next few years given expected attrition in the Phil’s OF and bullpen. Now if only Cole Hamels can spring back to the mean.

    Maybe the idea that in any deal there’s a winner and a loser is ingrained in our psyche after years of Woodward and Bavasi. But I chose to believe Jack Z when he says you can make deals that meet everyone’s needs. In the end, I hope I have two teams I can follow through the playoffs this coming season.

    David

  48. joser on December 16th, 2009 1:06 pm

    I’ve been trying to decide between a Gutierrez jersey and a Felix jersey, but now I think I want to have a Zduriencik jersey made…

    We were actually kidding about that last offseason. I don’t think anyone’s kidding anymore. I’d still rather have a Zduriencik bobblehead — rub its head for luck! — but a jersey would be cool. Oh, and some “Seattle Mariners Department of Baseball Research” hats or polos would be awesome too.

    BTW: Rosenthal says the mystery gimp w/ the potentially bummer physical was Wallace.

    Something about that just cracks me up. “Nobody expects… the mystery gimp!” It would be hilarious if that became his ‘official’ baseball nickname.

    do you think Big Z has an evil laugh that he uncorks after he pulls off these trades?

    Nah, he’s too classy for that. Probably just some high-fives around the office… and then back to work on the next deal that will somehow top that one. (At the rate he’s going, by 2011 he’ll get Albert Pujols for a bag of paperclips, straight up).

  49. jared_kopp on December 16th, 2009 1:08 pm

    Zduriencik is The Shadow. He has the power to cloud minds.

    He has mastered the Phurba. http://bit.ly/4N6qQR

  50. amnizu on December 16th, 2009 1:08 pm

    Love this deal, so with the Figgins signing and the Lee trade that accounts for roughly 16 of the 25 mil the M’s had to work with this off season for 2010. This leaves 9 mil to take care of 1b/DH, LF and possibly a buy low SP. I gotta think at this point the major moves are done and what’s left are more minor pickups like Johnson / Branyon types.

    As far as adding Lee, who gets the boot off the 25 man roster?

  51. Doc Baseball on December 16th, 2009 1:12 pm

    I am as thrilled as anyone with this trade, and it is exciting to think about the year ahead.

    However, I do not think this trade was a heist – and the fact that it was not is even MORE exciting.

    In big fat round terms, from Philadelphia’s perspective, they gave up a great pitcher (who they maybe could have only kept for one year). In return, they got arguably the best pitcher in the game today – and significantly, at a great contract length (not too long, not too short, just right), at an excellent value (net $70 Million for four years – $17.5 Million per year). They also gave away 3 prospects and got 3 prospects – a wash.

    For Seattle, again in crude round terms, if we assume Aumont and Gillies equal the two picks we would get if Lee walks at the end of 2010, then what Jack has done is to get Lee – maybe a $20 Million value – for $9 Million. So, essentially, in round numbers, Jack gave Philadelphia JC Ramirez in exchange for $11 Million.

    In rough horse trading terms, that seems reasonably fair. If so, I think what it reflects is Jack’s sophisticated understanding of different teams’ needs and his ability to create nuanced and complex deals that meet everyone’s needs. The exciting part to me is that if this trade is NOT a heist, then Jack can keep doing these kinds of deals all over the place. No one (or at least no one not named Bavasi) will keep participating in lopsided deals, or engage with people who have a reputation for fleecing their partners. But lots of people will want to keep dealing with Jack if they know that he is coming from a place of doing sophisticated deals that meet both parties’ needs. Assuming that this trade, and other GM’s perceptions of Jack, are the latter, then that means Seattle can look forward to getting our needs met continuously, now and over the long term.

    And that is really exciting.

  52. nepacific on December 16th, 2009 1:23 pm

    The thing is, the managements of both teams are happy with the deal. There’s no winner and loser, just two winners. That’s what makes it possible for Jack to keep dealing.

    I hate to mention this, but is it now possible that Lee could be a trade chip to ratchet us up even further?

  53. BLYKMYK44 on December 16th, 2009 1:24 pm

    I don’t get why people who defend the deal from the Philadelphia side bring up Halladay. Getting Halladay was great…but that doesn’t offset getting less then optimal players from Seattle.

    Since the trade wasn’t connected they could’ve put Lee on the open market and seen what they could get. I think most believe they’d get better then the three M’s players. That is why it is a heist.

    The best way to look at this would be if the Philadelphia fans would’ve been happy with this trade if the Halladay trade had never been made. I’m thinking the answer is no.

  54. Doc Baseball on December 16th, 2009 1:35 pm

    I think the deals ARE intertwined, which helps it make sense for Philadelphia.

    And looking at it separately for a moment, 3 prospects for a one-year rental is pretty much market.

    And certainly, we (Seattle) did very well on this deal – no question. But just not so well that no one will ever want to deal with us again….

  55. MsFan on December 16th, 2009 1:40 pm

    It’s bugged me why Phillie didn’t shop Lee on the open market too, surely they could have got a better package back than what we offered, I couldn’t understand it.

    Then I read the rumor that this three way trade started because Z originally contacted Toronto about Halladay himself only to find out they were already talking to Phillie about him.

    I’m thinking that we’re getting something of a discount here because Jack provided a service not apparent on the surface as a ~facilitator~ who made the Halladay trade possible for the Phillies so in return for getting the Phillies what they wanted he got a chance to get what he wanted, a TOR pitcher.

    It’s the only thing that adds up for me, and falls in line with everything I know about Z’s character.

  56. Kazinski on December 16th, 2009 1:45 pm

    As a Phillies fan living in Seattle, I’d been thinking that this was a nice, even epic three-way deal that did very positive things for all three teams involved.

    It may well turn out to have great results for Philadelphia. Aumont may be ready for the Majors in 2010, and while it would be a way too much to expect him to close, he could be turn out to be an effective (if wild) setup man a la Brandon Morrow in 2007. But speculation on the best case is not the way to evaluate a trade. As David Murphy says on Philly.com:

    What it boils down to is this: anybody who labels anybody other than Seattle the winner in this whole thing is fooling themselves.

    However his analysis is a little funny, he totals up all the prospects the Phillies shipped out for Lee and Halladay, and then balances it against Halladay and the Mariner’s prospects. What happened last July is ancient history, and doesn’t take into account the value Lee provided clinching the pennant and driving the Phillies into the World Series, and keeping them in contention once they were there.

  57. joser on December 16th, 2009 1:53 pm

    Yeah, the only way they put Lee on the market is if they lock up Halladay. Otherwise they just keep him, contend again, and take the draft picks when he leaves.

    The thing about this deal that a lot of Phillie fans are having a hard time with is why the Phillies have to get rid of Lee even if they’re signing Halladay. Why not pair Lee with Halladay for a killer 1-2 and then also get the draft picks? It’s hard for them to believe that the Phillies — coming off back-to-back WS appearances and one win — can’t afford another $9M this year to hang onto one of the best 5 pitchers in baseball.

  58. gwangung on December 16th, 2009 1:56 pm

    The thing about this deal that a lot of Phillie fans are having a hard time with is why the Phillies have to get rid of Lee even if they’re signing Halladay. Why not pair Lee with Halladay for a killer 1-2 and then also get the draft picks? It’s hard for them to believe that the Phillies — coming off back-to-back WS appearances and one win — can’t afford another $9M this year to hang onto one of the best 5 pitchers in baseball.

    All I can think about is that Phillie thought Aumont was worth way more than the draft picks they’d get if Lee walked.

  59. Doc Baseball on December 16th, 2009 2:02 pm

    Agreed – and perhaps that Gillies specifically would be able to replace Victorino in 2011 when Shane’s contract runs out and they can no longer afford him.

  60. Pete Livengood on December 16th, 2009 2:08 pm

    Doc Baseball wrote:

    “[The Phillies] also gave away 3 prospects and got 3 prospects – a wash.”

    I don’t think so. The package of prospects they gave up is better than the package of prospects we sent to them, by nearly all accounts. I still don’t think this means the Phillies “lost” the deal though. They got a pitcher who is better than the one they gave up, for more years (I assume the reports that signing Halladay to an extension was a contigency of the deal were true), so it makes sense that the package they gave up would be better than what they got back. The only reason I think the Phillies “lose” is there were any number of ways the Phillies could have approached this offseason that didn’t have to include trading Cliff Lee, and wouldn’t have precluded getting Halladay.

    “…if we assume Aumont and Gillies equal the two picks we would get if Lee walks at the end of 2010…”

    I don’t think we should assume that. The difference in development time is significant. But given the year we get of Lee, I’m totally fine with that.

  61. MissingEdgar on December 16th, 2009 2:19 pm

    For a rumor to be considered legitimate, it has to pass some minimum standards of logic.

    I’ve been trying to apply Dave’s advice from a post earlier this month to rumors of this trade and not get excited. I realize his post was directed at rumors that weren’t logical with regard to team direction and values but it seemed to me that, in addition, if something was too good to be true it probably wasn’t logical or true. I must now lower my skepticism barrier.

    Apparently there is a Santa Claus and Mariners fans have been good!

  62. drjeff on December 16th, 2009 3:16 pm

    Unbelievable. I think I want an M’s logo with a big upper-case Z in the middle tattooed somewhere noticeable so the cognoscenti will immediately know I’m a Jack follower.

  63. Jimmie the Geek on December 16th, 2009 4:40 pm

    I just want to chime in here with a big “Dude… CLIFF FREAKING LEE!!!!!!!!”. All Hail Jack Z!

    I look forward to this season, more than I ever have before at any time in my life. I might even buy a season ticket package again! :)

    Jimmie

  64. IheartZ on December 16th, 2009 6:02 pm

    Not to be greedy, but I remember early rumors that Seattle would get Lee “plus more.” Is that money? a prospect? Anything to it?

  65. Jeff Nye on December 16th, 2009 6:11 pm

    The deal’s final, nothing else is coming to us.

  66. bookbook on December 16th, 2009 9:16 pm

    Y’all, this was a great great deal for the M’s. I agree with everyone about that (and agree with those who feel the Phils should have kept Lee if they couldn’t get more than this.)

    Yet, I don’t think there’s any call to denigrate what the M’s gave up. Aumont especially is more than just a “middling” prospect IMHO. The other two have not only had development time but have survived the transitions inherent to that – which many touted prospects fail to do. Given that the picks from Lee walking won’t come until next year, At least 2 of the M’s may well be in the majors before the draft picks are selected. (& there’s a non-zero risk that Lee gets injured or performs poorly.)

    I do believe Aumont can start long term and truly contribute to the Phillies’ future. And won’t be upset at all when he does.

  67. Jeffrey D on December 17th, 2009 7:42 am

    I was convinced that one of the Seattle players needed to go to Toronto to free Halladay, which would give Seattle a bit of leverage with Philly.

    But as two straight up deals, then is dumping Lee just about the money? 2010 money at that? Because everyone gets that Lee couldn’t be extended, but 2010 was only $8M.

    CBP has been packed. The Phillies just went to the WS the last two years, and with Halladay, Lee, and Hammels in the rotation the Phillies would have no worries over unsold tickets in 2010.

    Folks in Philly are glad to have Halladay, but they are not buying either (i) that they couldn’t afford Lee in 2010, or (ii) that they got the best value available in the deal with Seattle.

    Seeing that the Lee became a “legendary hero” in two months, Philly fans are not pleased–but as they are Philly fans in the first place, their method of expression probably won’t be seen posted verbatim.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.