Game 24, Rangers at Mariners
Harrison vs Hernandez, 12:10 pm
Happy Felix Day.
It seems like Felix is constantly taking the hill trying to rescue the team from a bad situation. He’s doing it again, as I’d imagine most of us still have a pretty bitter taste in our mouths after last night’s game. The pitching match-up obviously favors the M’s, but whether the offense can do anything against a lefty remains to be seen. Brandon League obviously won’t be available today, either, so it’d be in the M’s best interests to not have to use their middle relief today.
Ichiro, RF
Figgins, 2B
Gutierrez, CF
Lopez, 2B (yes, still)
Bradley, LF
6-4-3, DH
Kotchman, 1B
Johnson, C
Wilson, SS
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240 Responses to “Game 24, Rangers at Mariners”
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Not really. Except for the fact that Gameday doesn’t come with it’s own special little moron named Eric Karros.
I keep reading things like this, and I have to ask, what makes you think this is true? The moves are obvious, yet they haven’t been made. Why not? Because they must not be obvious to Zduriencik, that’s why. For whatever reason, he doesn’t think the team will get better swapping Langerhans for Sweeney, or Hannahan for Colome, or Kelley for White. If he did, the moves would’ve happened already.
As far as making them far sooner than we expect, too late. I “expected” the moves to be made weeks ago.
Don’t drink the juice just yet. It’s May 1st. Yes, today was frustrating to watch and there will be games like this. But this isn’t the 2006-2008 Jose Vidro/Miguel Cairo/Richie Sexson Mariners. This team is better than it’s played so far, it’s unfortunate everybody’s in a slump at the same time. Wak will have to do something to fix the mindsets. And yes, it’s time to jettison Sweeney and the 7-man bullpen. Put the players in an opportunity to succeed. But we should all calm down a little bit and let the team develop. It’ll be fixed.
So. . . .you were expecting Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez to be on the next flight to Seattle?
There’s a reason why Z isn’t making the obvious moves right now.
IT’S NOT THE OFFSEASON!
NO ONE from AAA, free agency, or this team’s bench is going to help this team dramatically right now.
Z is just simply hamstrung right now.
He did make one mistake going into this season in thinking that Griffey had one good year left, and look at what we are stuck with right now at DH unfortunately when we could have had Bay, Vlad, Damon, Matsui, etc.
But mistakes happen to even the best GMs.
I still trust Z because I know he and his team in the front office are much smarter and much more competent than at least half the GMs in this game and they are certainly a lot smarter than Team Bavasi.
And remember too, if Byrnes puts down that bunt last night. All you people think Wakamatsu is a genius.
I am all for standing behind your team, players, GM etc., but I dont understand the love affair with Z. Granted the trade for Guti was an excellent one. Other than that what has he done. THe Ian Snell and Jack Wilson trade hasnt produced much and the morrow trade hasnt been great. Lastly he didnt address the offense this offseason. He kept saying all offseason how they needed to add power. So where is the power? He signed Figgins=no power, Kotchman=minimal power, and traded for Bradley=average power I guess and a headcase. So why this huge love affair? I like the guy so far but still question some of his moves. Maybe its just the fact that we were stuck with Bavasi for so long!
Watching all the hilarious overreaction in this comment thread is the most fun I’ve had all week.
The huge love affair with Z primarily came last year with the Mets deal and the Branyan pickup. Pretty much nothing this year has panned out so far. Although Cliff Lee will win us some games, he’ll be dealt at the deadline because our offense will not be able to do enough despite the good pitching.
Have you ever read me speculate about getting either of those guys? No.
The moves I’m talking about are the internal ones, a LF platoon of guys who can play defense instead of a DH platoon of guys who can’t hit. A backup SS instead of asking Tui to play out of position. A bullpen that doesn’t have two guys who see less action than a eunuch in a convent…
Those moves won’t make the M’s a lineup full of mashers, but then I still believe in the idea that good pitching, great defense and average hitting can win a championship. I also think this team could be at least close to average offensively if they didn’t keep running so many black holes out there, and didn’t strategically place GIDP-machines in lineup positions carefully crafted to kill rallies.
Lets count the things that have gone wrong the past two days:
Yesterday:
1. Vlad making a running catch at the wall that he couldn’t make again if he tried.
2. Kotchman being called out for “running inside the base path”.
3. Kotchman’s check swing line out with runners on 2nd and 3rd and no outs.
4. Sweeney becoming 6-4-3.
5. Byrnes failing to remember to do his part in a suicide squeeze and then striking out to kill another rally.
6. The Rangers getting two hits that never left the infield and then scoring the winning run on a wild pitch.
Today:
7. The Rangers getting bloop hits against Felix.
8. Kotchman botching a possible double play or at least a force out at home to get down 1-0 early.
9. Bradley botching an easy pop fly to the outfield to get down 3-0.
10. Countless bad ABs with runners in scoring position.
11. Felix was pitching with a bad back and had no control as a result.
It’s easy to get down on this team, but the past two days were about as unlucky and as bad as a team can play. Despite of all of that, we could have won both games. Yeah it sucks to lose to a division rival, and yeah it sucks to lose games we should win, but all teams go through this at one point.
With that said, there need to be some changes and hopefully Z and Wak use these games as motivation to make them.
So you’re saying you’d prefer Ronny Cedeno at SS? With Jeff Clement, Nathan Adcock, Aaron Pribanic, and Brett Lorin in the minors?
This topic has been dealt with quite well by people much smarter than me, but the M’s had no place in their rotation for Morrow, and sending him to the bullpen again would not have been a good thing. Brandon League >>>>> Brandon Morrow in the bullpen.
When did he say this?
And finally,
Three words: CLIFF FUCKING LEE.
Has to be more fun than watching Sweeney and Griffey “hit”, anyway.
On the plus side, I’m saving a lot of money that I would have spent on tickets.
True, and Griffey/Sweeney wouldn’t be so much a problem if Figgens, Bradley, and Lopez were hitting something close to their career averages. (Well Lopez’s numbers are not so far away and as such he should be batting nowhere near the cleanup spot, so that’s on Wak at least).
Mattlock,
First off your an idiot. The answer to your first question I would reply yes to the majority of it. I wouldnt want Cedeno on this team but I would take those other guys in the minors. Brett Lorin has a lot of potential. Snell has proved nothing since he has been here except that hes a backend of the rotation starter and Wilson has defense and no bat. We could have found a replacement in free agency.
Everyone in the media expected the M’s would receive more in return than they did for Morrow. Our bullpen was already good before this move was made so this made no sense to me from the beginning. Morrow could have been the backend of the rotation starter that Snell is.
At the end of last season and during the offseason he spoke about needing to add power and improve the offense. Obviously by looking at the offense it isnt improved from last season.
Lastly I like the Lee move but it does nothing if we cant score runs. Prime example is last night. Do you think adding in the “FUCKING” part makes you sound like a badass?
We will look back at this weekend and remember this was when the hype died. Reality sucks!!
Well that’s a bit of an overreaction…
and it should be “you’re”. I found that kinda funny given the context.
looks like the comment moderators are taking a nap…
The one thing I see that’s so terrible is that 7 of the 9 regulars have a batting average below .250…That is just flat out terrible.
But Bradley is starting to hit which is good. I really just hope the M’s can salvage tomorrow’s game against the Rangers and figure out how to get things back on track. The way the West is right now, Texas, LA, and Oakland all have important guys on the DL and the M’s have lost a lot of games they should have won. It’s so frustrating to know that if the M’s had just a league average offense that they would likely be in first and probably have 4-6 of those wins that were lost due to lack of offense.
Agreed. I didn’t think we’d run the table with Cliff Lee & Felix Hernandez, but it certainly stings to throw up a donut for Mr. Lee. I had fewer problems with today’s loss (more mystified than upset), but yesterday’s still boggles my mind. The only reason I can think of for Mr. Byrnes having a job today is that MLB contracts are usually guaranteed money…
If you aren’t concerned about the offense you are ignoring the obvious red flags. Their record is not indicative of how they played. They should have at least 2 or 3 more losses. Even when the offense comes around, it still is a below-average AL offense. Wak said today that certain things have to run “perfectly” for this team to win.
Blind optimists drive me nuts.
bhdollman,
Calm down, buddy. Throwing out completely unmerited insults isn’t a good way to carry on a sensible discussion. That’s assuming you want to carry on a sensible discussion.
Jack Wilson is the best defensive shortstop in the Major Leagues. Baseball games are won by scoring runs and preventing runs. Ronny Cedeno and Jeff Clement certainly weren’t going to be producing any runs any time soon. The Mariners have plenty of Ronny Cedeno’s in the minors (see: Josh Wilson, Chris Woodward, Ramon Vazquez). That type of player is a dime a dozen. And Mike Carp, Tommy Everidge, and Brad Nelson prove the uselessness of Jeff Clement.
Sure, Lorin has a lot of potential. So does Snell. What’s your point? Snell was once one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball. He has the stuff to perform well, but just can’t find his command. Either way, Jack Z had no way of knowing that Snell wouldn’t revert back to his previous ways, and he gave up basically nothing for him and the best defensive shortstop in baseball.
Basing your opinion of a move on the expectations of the media is dumb. The media is dumb. Sure, perhaps the Mariners might have gotten more in return for Morrow. But they didn’t, which, given Z’s history of maximizing the return he gets on trades, leads me to believe that people just weren’t interested in giving up anything they wanted. Morrow was not going to be in their rotation, and moving him back to the bullpen wasn’t an option, so in essence, they traded a reliever for a reliever and a prospect. And like I said before, as relievers, League >>>>>> Morrow.
Translation: “Our bullpen was already good, so I don’t understand why Jack would try to make it better.” It’s ok, buddy. Don’t hurt yourself trying to figure it out.
Next, there’s a difference between this:
…and this:
You’re right, he did talk about needing to improve the offense. He did that. And he mentioned once that they needed to add some power. Power, however, is not the Mariners’ problem. Go learn something if you think it is.
Yeah, if we can’t score runs, all we can do is trade him at the deadline or let him sign elsewhere and take the draft picks. That’s exactly the same as nothing. And if we can score runs (which we can), then it does us lots. And no, adding the “FUCKING” wasn’t intended to make me sound badass. If you spent any significant amount of time around here, you would have heard it before.
I hope we do trade Lee at the deadline for a kings ransom. Perhaps that was the plan all along. Maybe the best way to get the power we need is via prospects. Sure is cheaper.
Bad day.
By the way: Can we get off of Milton Bradley’s back? He went 2-5, has been OK at the plate lately, and we all agree that he’s a DH. When he screws up in the field, we shouldn’t be mad at him; we should be mad at management.
Hey Dave – I think you can essentially cut and paste the entirety of the game 23 recap, change the date and the season standings, and call it done, for every Ms loss from now on.
If repeating the same things over and over is good enough for Zdurencik and Wakamatsu, it’s got to be good enough here too. Save yourself the trouble.
There’s nothing new to say until or unless someone gets DFA’d, traded or injured.
You talk about not making insults but yet you insult my intelligence. You make a lot of sense.
If you think this offense is improved from last year then you have not been watching the same Mariners team I have been. Look up the stats at this time last year the team had scored 101 runs and this year 85. That doesnt sound like an improved offense to me.
Power is not the problem.
Hmmmm. They have hit 9 homeruns so far this season. To score runs this team has to string together three hits in an inning which has been hard for them to do. If we had some power on this team we obviously would be scoring more runs. Oh and exactly what am I suppose to go learn?
Yes, this team has struggled to hit home runs. As you said, it has also struggled to string together hits to score runs. So this automatically means they need power? This is such a tired, ridiculous, and completely unfounded argument.
This team does not need power. Power would be nice, but Safeco Field does not suit a power-hitting team, hence the reason Jack didn’t spend out the ass for a power-hitter. The Mets did, and look at the production they’re getting from Jason Bay. He’s sure not hitting the way they expected when they decided to pay him $66MM over the next four years, and he’d be doing even worse in Seattle.
Jack acquired players who are good at getting on base, hitting into the gaps, and playing terrific defense (except for Griffey and Sweeney). Right now, the majority of them are struggling and playing well below their ability, but only a stupid person would them blame that on Jack and say he’s done a bad job. It’s been one damn month, for Christ’s sake.
Signing Griffey and Sweeney wasn’t Jack’s greatest move, but it by no means overshadows the rest of his moves. The team’s struggles now are a result of a combination of things (Wak’s stupid lineups that are built to kill rallies, Swiffey’s incompetence, a bunch of bad luck, and several players slumping at once).
I never insulted your intelligence. It told you to “Go learn something” if you think that lack of power is the Mariners’ problem. If you were insulted, it’s because you do think that is their problem, and I can’t help that. It just isn’t the case, no matter how much you want to think it is.
I’m not sure what the chemistry is like in the clubhouse, but it sucks on the website.
Q13 Fox Sports just had a segment about Cliff Lee… His agent has said the M’s have made no progress with a contract, and that Lee is ready for free agency.
Pretty funny that this has come right after the Mariners blow his start.
This is getting way too overblown. First of all, I’m not sure why his agent would be saying anything about contract progress or issues. But it seems the media is trying to cause some non-issue to be way overblown. Of course he wants to test free agency, he hasn’t received the big pay day other pitchers at his talent level have received.
While I don’t want to judge the team on these two games, they are the straw that broke the camel’s back in my view of the offense.
You can say that we are till right in the thick of the race, but we could be 4 games in the lead if we had a proper roster (no 643 Designated Hugger, no extra pen guy).
“I’m not sure what the chemistry is like in the clubhouse, but it sucks on the website.”
This website needs a collective hug from Mike Sweeney.
Mattlock, I do like the new nickname – “Swiffey”.
We’re in agreement there. And I don’t imagine website chemistry happening anytime soon.
Nah. Jeff is enjoying himself reading them, and with no post-game recap, we can only assume that Dave is lying in bed sick and is AFK. Get better soon Dave.
If Dave were able to post, I’m guessing this would be his recap for today.
As easy as it is to blame Z for the roster construction I think that we forget that there are people higher in the organization the Z. Griffey and Sweeney probably on the team just because Chuck Armstrong has a good relationship with both players and Griffey can sell tickets. Z did the best he could with the options he was given. Also, I think we should remember that this team lost 101 games two years ago and this was supposed to a AT LEAST a 3 year rebuilding project. I know it’s insanely frustrating to watch at this point but let’s keep 24 games in perspective.
Pretty handy. I’ve taken to referring to Junior as either “Grief-y” or “Whiffey”. And I really don’t have anything to say about Sweeney anymore, and he hardly plays enough to merit comment, so usually when I’m griping about DH I’m just referring to Grief-y.
and Gomez: Yeah, I’m guessing that’s the deal too. It’s not like he’d have anything new to say on this one since the Ms just lost the same ol way they have been this season.
Get well soon, Dave.
NO. No, no, no. Nothing personal, but I vehemently disagree with this line of thinking.
I’m sick of people making excuses for the Mariners in general (regardless of regime) and for Chuck, Howie and Z specifically.
2008 is becoming as tired a meme among Mariner fans as 1995 is. “We suck less” should never be an acceptable bar.
The Ms have been in some rebuilding project or another for years, and giving them a pass simply because building a winner is hard, is no longer acceptable. As long as the fan base will accept mediocrity, that’s what we’ll get. If you can handwave away an 80ish-team as “rebuilding”, then you’re not going to see any better from these guys.
“Rebuilding” is not an acceptable excuse for poor bench creation, poor decisions with relievers, poor in-season roster management between the ML club and AAA, or holding on to poor performers way past their sell-by date.
“This is better than the 101 loss team” is like saying “yes, I know your car only gets to 47 MPH, but hey, it’s better than the stall you had in the parking lot last week”.
Coasting on the nostalgia of 1995, or the relief of 2009, is not enough. The Ms have things they can do right now, with the roster as constructed, to make this team incrementally better, to be in a position to upgrade at the ASB, to win a winnable division this year.
There’s no need to hide behind the pathetic “rebuilding” excuse that the Orioles and Pirates and Nationals of the world have to use.
I agree that there should be no excuses for having a terrible bench and a useless 7 man bullpen. I agree that rebuilding can be used as a pathetic excuse, but you can’t deny that these things do take time. The roster is majorly overhauled and Z has a vision of how he wants to win. I don’t want to rebuild either, I want to win now. But this is a new regime and they’re just starting to put their prints on the organization.