M’s Respond

Dave · May 2, 2010 at 7:26 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

That didn’t take long.

According to Ryan Divish and Larry Stone (both via twitter), Eric Byrnes has been DFA’d, and he will be replaced on the roster by Ryan Langerhans. Matt Tuiasosopo has been optioned to Tacoma, and he’ll be replaced by Josh Wilson.

It’s a start. This gives the Mariners a left-handed LF so that they have a real option to play the field and move Bradley to DH most days, allowing Junior to serve as late game pinch hitter (assuming Wak is willing to do this). And now that they have a real backup shortstop, they can actually pinch hit for Jack Wilson without too much fear, so those two moves work nicely together. Langerhans isn’t going to fix the offense by himself, but he’s a better hitter than Griffey right now, and having him in left instead of Bradley upgrades the defense as well. It’s a small improvement, but it’s improvement.

There’s more work to be done, but congratulations to the M’s front office for making some of the right moves. There’s still the issue of Sweeney’s spot on this roster, but I’ll give them until Tuesday to sort that out. They have roughly over 40 hours before the next game at Safeco. They don’t have to make that move right now.

A quick update via Shannon Drayer’s twitter: The “next move will not be a 60 day DL move.” This is noteworthy because the M’s have to clear a spot on the 40 man roster for both Langerhans and Josh Wilson, and they only opened one by releasing Byrnes. So, someone else is going away before Tuesday. However, before we all get our hopes up that the guy going away might be a right-handed hugging machine, Drayer also notes that the guy is “most likely not on the 25 man roster.”

Comments

111 Responses to “M’s Respond”

  1. spankystout on May 2nd, 2010 7:27 pm

    Handel’s “Messiah” is resonating through my ears.

  2. lailaihei on May 2nd, 2010 7:33 pm

    Two moves made and Sweeney is still on the roster? That doesn’t make any sense to me.

  3. Paul B on May 2nd, 2010 7:34 pm

    That fixes two of the problems (getting a glove in left field that can hit a little and hits lefty so could play most of the time pushing Bradley to DH most of the time, and a player on the bench who can actually play shortstop for when Jack Wilson tweaks something or is hit for), but it doesn’t fix most of the problems (and one could argue, the most serious problems):

    Two DH’s who can’t hit
    Too many relief pitchers
    Catcher who can’t catch

  4. The_Waco_Kid on May 2nd, 2010 7:36 pm

    This is unlikely to solve all our problems, but hey, why not give Josh and Langerhans a chance? (hopefully they’ll actually be used). Also, this shows the front office’s patience is not infinite and their “leashes” for other players (probably Sweeney) might be getting shorter as well.

  5. Dave on May 2nd, 2010 7:36 pm

    Pretty decent chance Sweeney is DL’ed by Tuesday – they just didn’t have his logical replacement in house, so they have to go get him first. I expect some kind of minor trade.

  6. lailaihei on May 2nd, 2010 7:38 pm

    Pretty decent chance Sweeney is DL’ed by Tuesday – they just didn’t have his logical replacement in house, so they have to go get him first. I expect some kind of minor trade.

    Doesn’t Tui do the same thing as Sweeney except with more upside and some positional flexibility?

  7. jld on May 2nd, 2010 7:39 pm

    Langerhans move makes sense, though I’m more interested in bringing the other J Wilson up. What’s the purpose of this? Was Tui being used that much to really hurt us, or is this preparing the roster for switching Sweeney out for someone who’s not in the organization?

  8. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 7:41 pm

    Good move. It’s good to see something actually being done. Though, I have to say I’d rather have Saunders up instead of Langerhans.

  9. Carson on May 2nd, 2010 7:41 pm

    I guess picking the order of the moves needed is pointless, but I’d say Byrnes being DFA’d could have come after Sweeney was addressed.

    Doesn’t replacing Byrnes with a lefty in Langerhans mean Milton continues to play the field too much?

    Hopefully it means Langerhans gets most of Junior’s starts against righties, otherwise I’d be interested to know how much improvement there would be from this move if Langerhans is just a fourth outfielder playing once a week.

  10. Islets of Ryan Langerhans on May 2nd, 2010 7:41 pm

    This is excellent news.

    Sweeney is next. If we need a nice guy in the dugout, he can go collect the bats.

  11. Carson on May 2nd, 2010 7:43 pm

    To add to my post. It’s a good move regardless, but I am just hoping it means Langerhans plays more than Byrnes did, and also means Junior plays less.

  12. spankystout on May 2nd, 2010 7:45 pm

    DAVE

    Do you have any ideas on whom they may trade for?

    I know Gonzalez is a pipe dream. Dye isn’t a fit. I don’t see the A’s dealing Cust inside the division. Willingham probably would struggle with Safeco, and the switch to the AL. Etc……….

  13. griffin on May 2nd, 2010 7:45 pm

    This is a good start. Langerhans being a lefty means he SHOULD play more regularly against most RHP’s, and Bradley SHOULD DH most nights, using Griffey as little as possible.
    I was hoping/expecting to see Sweeney gone with this update, but this is better than nothing.

    Come on M’s!

  14. Islets of Ryan Langerhans on May 2nd, 2010 7:48 pm

    To add to my post. It’s a good move regardless, but I am just hoping it means Langerhans plays more than Byrnes did, and also means Junior plays less.

    I’m guessing that Langerhans comes with a note taped to him from Z saying “Hi, my name is Ryan Langerhans, please use me in games.”

  15. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 7:51 pm

    @islets of Ryan Langerhans

    Lol that’s got to be the best name I’ve seen in a long time. Next to IWearM’sHats haha.

  16. Chris_From_Bothell on May 2nd, 2010 7:53 pm

    I’m betting Sweeney is going to be hidden on the DL for the rest of the year.

    It’s cheap, and cheesy, but worth it until and unless the Ms are desperate enough for the roster spot that he has to be DFA’d to get someone new on the 40-man. Keeps his beloved clubhouse presence around without clogging the 25-man any further.

    Do some deep back bends tonight, Mike!

  17. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 7:58 pm

    I’m betting Sweeney is going to be hidden on the DL for the rest of the year.

    It’s cheap, and cheesy, but worth it until and unless the Ms are desperate enough for the roster spot that he has to be DFA’d to get someone new on the 40-man. Keeps his beloved clubhouse presence around without clogging the 25-man any further.

    Do some deep back bends tonight, Mike!

    The problem with that is that the M’s are so dilusional that they think he can actually still play…

  18. Rick L on May 2nd, 2010 7:59 pm

    My first thought was “wouldn’t Hanahan have been a better call up than Wilson? Then I looked at their stats for the Rainiers.
    Wilson, .333 Avg, .341 OBP, .835 OPS.

  19. Rick L on May 2nd, 2010 8:03 pm

    I’d rather have Saunders up instead of Langerhans.

    Saunders is off to a very slow start in Tacoma, with an OPS of only .398 to Langerhans’ .802

  20. IwearMsHats on May 2nd, 2010 8:08 pm

    Pretty decent chance Sweeney is DL’ed by Tuesday – they just didn’t have his logical replacement in house, so they have to go get him first. I expect some kind of minor trade.

    Really? I swear I saw Sweeney with a batting helmet on getting ready to PH before the game ended…

  21. zjmuglidny on May 2nd, 2010 8:10 pm

    What would have been wrong with keeping Tui on the club and DLing Sweeney tonight (assuming he’s going to be DLed)? Tui could be a utility guy and play some LF against lefties. Am I overrating his potential to be a decent major league hitter?

  22. CarpCarter on May 2nd, 2010 8:11 pm

    Wilson has been killing it in AAA so I’m all for bringing him up as middle infield utility and late-game replacement.

    The Langerhans move is only exciting if Wak makes the right move and pulls a 80/20ish platoon split at DH with Bradley and Griffey and puts Langerhans in the field. If he’s just bench fodder like Byrnes and we continue to see a Griffey/Sweeney DH platoon then color me unimpressed.

  23. EricL on May 2nd, 2010 8:12 pm

    Really? I swear I saw Sweeney with a batting helmet on getting ready to PH before the game ended…

    On radio they said Sweeney was in the original lineup and was scratched due to a bad back.

    I don’t know what the timing of the scratch was, but if it was after rosters were handed in he couldn’t have played as he would have already been substituted out.

  24. luckyscrubs on May 2nd, 2010 8:12 pm

    Dave or anyone else, assuming a player on the 40 man (but not on the 25) will be waived, who would be your pick?

  25. spankystout on May 2nd, 2010 8:13 pm

    As long as Langerhans doesn’t repeat 14.6 SwgStrk%, his 69.2 contact% and his 27.3 O-swing% (9.2% above his career average) he can help out. He was worth .6 WAR last season. If he tones down those batting numbers(with enough playing time) he could be worth a more than .6.

  26. CarpCarter on May 2nd, 2010 8:15 pm

    What would have been wrong with keeping Tui on the club and DLing Sweeney tonight (assuming he’s going to be DLed)? Tui could be a utility guy and play some LF against lefties. Am I overrating his potential to be a decent major league hitter?

    Potential maybe, but as of now the guy just isn’t MLB-ready at the plate, and made enough errors spelling Jack Wilson at short to cast doubt on his ability to effectively backup at that position. Wilson #1, Figgins, Lopez, and Wilson #2 makes for a more versatile pool of infielders, in my opinion.

    Tui’s only 24(?). Let him work it out with Saunders getting regular time in Tacoma.

  27. themedia on May 2nd, 2010 8:26 pm

    I really hope this doesn’t count as rosterbation. What about a trade for Carlos Lee? His numbers are terrible, but, after watching one game in Atlanta this weekend and thereby establishing myself as an expert, he’s still killing the ball. It’s getting caught a lot, but he hit two balls to the track, killed a liner to 1B, etc. Are the Astros the type of team to get robbed of a big hitter who’s slumping?

  28. Alfalfa on May 2nd, 2010 8:30 pm

    Dave or anyone else, assuming a player on the 40 man (but not on the 25) will be waived, who would be your pick?

    Garrett Olson maybe?

  29. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 8:32 pm

    I really hope this doesn’t count as rosterbation. What about a trade for Carlos Lee? His numbers are terrible, but, after watching one game in Atlanta this weekend and thereby establishing myself as an expert, he’s still killing the ball. It’s getting caught a lot, but he hit two balls to the track, killed a liner to 1B, etc. Are the Astros the type of team to get robbed of a big hitter who’s slumping?

    Lee is big, fat, 34, a staple in the Houston lineup, and owed almost 20 million this year. No way in hell the M’s get him without paying a huge chunk of his salary. Not that we want him either.

  30. Jay Yencich on May 2nd, 2010 8:33 pm

    My money’s on Orta. He had Tommy John surgery, there’s no reason not to 60-day him.

  31. billT on May 2nd, 2010 8:33 pm

    It seems to me that any and all optimism about these moves is based on the belief that these guys (Langerhans especially) will see more playing time than the guys who they’re replacing, thus also attempting to get Bradley time at DH.

    But it’s just an assumption. It’s entirely possible that they just swapped out a few bench players and come Tuesday Lopez will be batting 4th followed by Griffey at DH.

  32. zjmuglidny on May 2nd, 2010 8:38 pm

    Wilson #1, Figgins, Lopez, and Wilson #2 makes for a more versatile pool of infielders, in my opinion.

    Tui’s only 24(?). Let him work it out with Saunders getting regular time in Tacoma.

    I’m with you on the IF. The promotion of Wilson #2 is definitely a good move. I just would rather have Tui than Sweeney. We’ll see what Jack Z. does in the next few days.

  33. colejs on May 2nd, 2010 8:39 pm

    This is the best I’ve felt about the mariners in a few days.

    Now to see how it turns out for real

  34. wetzelcoatl on May 2nd, 2010 8:43 pm

    I heard the end of the game today on the radio at work and have been thinking to myself ever since that if the team didn’t make some kind of move by Tuesday i would just give up. Nice to come home to this.

  35. scott19 on May 2nd, 2010 8:54 pm

    Fascinating…on a “This Just In…” at the end of ESPN’s Baseball Tonight wrap, Amy Lawrence was informing the listeners of Byrnes’ DFA…

    Soooo, the M’s do get a national mention today — though, unfortunately, not for a good reason.

  36. fivespot on May 2nd, 2010 9:16 pm

    We’ll get a good chance to find out what they’re thinking, as the Rays offer up three consecutive righthanders (Shields, Garza and Niemann) when they come to town. They’re playing really well right now, and would be difficult to beat even with a 1995 model Griffey. Langerhans on the bench, Milton in LF, and the 2010 Griffey at DH won’t even come close to getting it done.

  37. SonOfZavaras on May 2nd, 2010 9:19 pm

    My money’s on Orta. He had Tommy John surgery, there’s no reason not to 60-day him.

    I was thinking along the same lines, Jay. Not that I’ll put money against Dave’s supposition of a minor trade. Could certainly happen. But I think Orta going see-ya for the year is easier and makes more sense than any trade scenario I see out there.

    For the short term, anyway. Deals have a way of exploding onto the consciousness. “They ARE shopping him?! Wow.”

  38. SonOfZavaras on May 2nd, 2010 9:22 pm

    Dave, Jay-
    go right ahead and correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Tui have to clear waivers before we send him down to AAA? Or did he have one more option remaining, and I didn’t know?

    It kind of feels like he’s been in the organization since 1993.

  39. Dave on May 2nd, 2010 9:23 pm

    Tui was optioned to Tacoma.

  40. mariners2009 on May 2nd, 2010 9:27 pm

    Fascinating…on a “This Just In…” at the end of ESPN’s Baseball Tonight wrap, Amy Lawrence was informing the listeners of Byrnes’ DFA…

    Soooo, the M’s do get a national mention today — though, unfortunately, not for a good reason

    I think it’s a very good reason.

    Really? I swear I saw Sweeney with a batting helmet on getting ready to PH before the game ended…

    he attempted to get loose in the cage, but was unable to.

    This move makes me very happy. I called for exactly this on Friday in the Game 23 Recap thread. There for, I am personally taking credit and you all should thank me.

  41. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 9:40 pm

    This move makes me very happy. I called for exactly this on Friday in the Game 23 Recap thread. There for, I am personally taking credit and you all should thank me.

    It may just be me, but I’m not really in the thanking mood.

    What we really need is someone to hit in our offense. Someone that when the lineup is looked at, you think “O shit he can hit”. Right now we don’t have anyone like that and it’s more than apparent. We can’t fucking hit and until that is fixed, we won’t even play close to .500 ball. No way Fister and Vargas continue their spectacular starts.

  42. egreenlaw9 on May 2nd, 2010 9:45 pm

    No way Fister and Vargas continue their spectacular starts.

    Maybe. But isn’t it nice to have the no-name starters baffling the other team for a while?

  43. dingla on May 2nd, 2010 9:47 pm

    from MyNorthwest:

    The Seattle Mariners have released veteran outfielder Eric Byrnes, two days after a late-game gaffe and bizarre exit from the stadium on a bicycle.

    what?

  44. PackBob on May 2nd, 2010 9:50 pm

    All good moves that make this a better, more versatile club. Tui should be getting ABs instead of splinters on the bench.

    Maybe for the best as with a little better offense and a couple more wins, nothing may have been done. In keeping with the Jack/Wak philosophy of giving players a fair chance to succeed, but the players have to step up or management will move on. Sends a useful message.

    Don’t think it will take much to change those close losses to close wins, and this is a good start. Even so, I’d bet that Jack is looking for a good bat to bring in if it is overall a good deal for the club.

  45. DAMellen on May 2nd, 2010 9:54 pm

    …I want to hear more about this bicycle…

  46. xxtinynickxx on May 2nd, 2010 9:54 pm

    Not to get anyone’s hopes up but perhaps Sweeney doen’t hit the DL, maybe he is gonna retire??

  47. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 9:58 pm

    Maybe Sweeney fractured his back and is done forever!?!

  48. CarpCarter on May 2nd, 2010 10:01 pm

    While putting Langerhans in LF and moving Bradley to DH doesn’t seem to boost the offense much on paper, I doubt Wak will feel much pressure to bat Langerhans fifth, and will instead logically place him in the backend of the lineup where Griffey should be hitting now. Just removing Groundball Griffey from the front half of the order is a good first step towards getting some runs in.

  49. mariners2009 on May 2nd, 2010 10:06 pm

    we won’t even play close to .500 ball.

    We are playing close to .500 ball. In fact, we went into the weekend at .500 and in the lead in the division.

    Think of it this way. We are trading a guy who was hitting .094/.237/.156 and looks like he is high on meth in the field for a guy that is hitting .282/.391/.410 in AAA and usually looks pretty decent in the field. I’ll take that trade any day of the week and twice on the evening following a sweep.

    Plus, you send down a guy who needs more playing time and can only play marginal defense at best for a guy who covers the majority of the infield well. Oh, and did I mention that he is hitting .333/.341/.494? Those are both defensive and offensive upgrades. On tuesday, the M’s will be a better team.

    One more thing, does Byrne’s bicycle have room on the handle bars for Sweeney????

  50. ac32 on May 2nd, 2010 10:06 pm

    The next move should be to send down Colome because he really can’t pitch. Then call up French to have a lefty in the bullpen. Obviously, 2-4-6 DH needs to go. In his place a someone who can hit the ball out of the park

  51. Rusty on May 2nd, 2010 10:09 pm

    I like the previously mentioned idea of Luke Scott, and I think the timing might be right. With Ty Wigginton playing much better than anticipated, there’s a new logjam for playing time across the Oriole roster (infield, outfield and DH).

    Someone above mentioned Cust, but Scott’s a better fit. Scott is a pull hitter and would likely hit better at Safeco than Cust who shows more tendency to push the ball more to the opposite field.

  52. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 10:16 pm

    We are playing close to .500 ball. In fact, we went into the weekend at .500 and in the lead in the division.

    Think of it this way. We are trading a guy who was hitting .094/.237/.156 and looks like he is high on meth in the field for a guy that is hitting .282/.391/.410 in AAA and usually looks pretty decent in the field. I’ll take that trade any day of the week and twice on the evening following a sweep.

    Plus, you send down a guy who needs more playing time and can only play marginal defense at best for a guy who covers the majority of the infield well. Oh, and did I mention that he is hitting .333/.341/.494? Those are both defensive and offensive upgrades. On tuesday, the M’s will be a better team.

    One more thing, does Byrne’s bicycle have room on the handle bars for Sweeney????

    Yes, you missed my point though. We are currently 2 games under .500. We still haven’t really upgraded our offense (Langerhans is a career .230 hitter), AND to expect Fister and Vargas to continue to pitch how they have is just unreasonable. Thus, we will begin to give up more runs than we have (because we have had great starting pitching) and we will continue to have to worst offense in all of baseball. Basically, we need to make changes or have another 2008. It’s your choice Z.

  53. Paul L on May 2nd, 2010 10:17 pm

    Hey Mike,

    Thanks for coming by. I’m not going to patronize you by saying this is harder for us than it is for you, but it is always difficult no matter what side of the table you’re on.

    As you can see, we’re having trouble scoring runs, and we need to make some changes if we’re going to contend this season. We need to bring in some offense, and in looking at the roster I’m afraid you’re the odd man out. We going to have to release you to make room for a bigger bat.

    You’ve had a great career, and you’re known throughout the league as a great guy, so we’d like to work with you to make this as comfortable as possible.

    If you’d prefer to have the option of signing with another team we’ll go ahead and give you your outright release.

    If not, since you gave indications that you were ready to retire last offseason, we’ve already talked to the Royals and they are willing to sign you to a one-day contract after we release you if you’d like to retire as a Royal.

    I know this is a lot to hit you with all at once. We’d like to make a move prior to the game on Tuesday, so go ahead and take tomorrow to talk to your agent and family about how you want to handle this.

  54. SonOfZavaras on May 2nd, 2010 10:17 pm

    I was thinking about it, and was wondering exactly what the odds are of a trade, specifically one where an “unproven player with some potential- not scratched yet” might come to us.

    Would that make more fiscal sense to us (in terms of what the other team will want) than acquiring a bigger-name bat?

    The Royals actually have two of these kind of players in Alex Gordon and Kila Kai’ahue. I like both of their bats better than Ryan Langerhans. Just saying.

  55. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 10:25 pm

    Alex Gordon doesn’t fill the hole in left field and would only be able to play 3rd when Lopez doesn’t play or he’d DH when Bradley doesn’t which is when Griffey would most likely play. Plus he’s a former 1st round pick, (2nd overall in the draft) so he’d command a little more than we’d want for someone who doesn’t exactly fit our holes.

  56. msb on May 2nd, 2010 10:30 pm
  57. djw on May 2nd, 2010 10:36 pm

    Yes, you missed my point though. We are currently 2 games under .500. We still haven’t really upgraded our offense (Langerhans is a career .230 hitter),

    What are you talking about? Langerhans isn’t a particularly good hitter, but he’s clearly better than Byrnes. I know you’ve been reading this site long enough to know what a horrible evaluation tool batting average is, but even if we used it, 230>087. In fact, it’s almost three times better.

    The word “really” is doing some kind of work I don’t understand. How is replacing a bad hitter with a less bad hitter not “really” upgrading the offense?

    AND to expect Fister and Vargas to continue to pitch how they have is just unreasonable.

    Sure, they’re overachieving. Others (Figgins, Bradley, probably the catchers, Rowland-Smith, etc) are underacheiving. Every team in baseball has overacheivers at this point in the season–singling them out, rather than looking at whether the team in general is over- or under-achieving based on their true talent level makes no sense.

  58. NBarnes on May 2nd, 2010 10:36 pm

    Stealing Kai’ahue from the Royals would be hilarious. Seems unlikely, but it would be great.

    But what could we trade them for him? We already gave them a great starting shortstop. What’s left?

  59. djw on May 2nd, 2010 10:37 pm

    Alex Gordon doesn’t fill the hole in left field and would only be able to play 3rd when Lopez doesn’t play

    If the M’s were able to get Alex Gordon, they should just play him at 3rd. He is much better than Lopez.

  60. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 10:41 pm

    But what could we trade them for him? We already gave them a great starting shortstop. What’s left?

    We could give them Lopez for Greinke…. Then they’d have a best friend dp combo lol

    Yes, you missed my point though. We are currently 2 games under .500. We still haven’t really upgraded our offense (Langerhans is a career .230 hitter),

    What are you talking about? Langerhans isn’t a particularly good hitter, but he’s clearly better than Byrnes. I know you’ve been reading this site long enough to know what a horrible evaluation tool batting average is, but even if we used it, 230>087. In fact, it’s almost three times better.

    The word “really” is doing some kind of work I don’t understand. How is replacing a bad hitter with a less bad hitter not “really” upgrading the offense?

    You can’t honestly think adding one player who will maybe get 4 more hits than byrnes in 25 games will improve our offense… Our lineup sucked today and all the days before and it still sucks now. We still need to add someone who can hit or we will still be last in basically every single offensive catagory plain and simple.

  61. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 10:43 pm

    Alex Gordon doesn’t fill the hole in left field and would only be able to play 3rd when Lopez doesn’t play

    If the M’s were able to get Alex Gordon, they should just play him at 3rd. He is much better than Lopez.

    True, for some reason I’ve always had this possibly irrational hatred of Jose. Maybe it’s his knack for ending rallies, grounding into double plays, making errors, or always hitting home-runs into that certain spot in left field. I just don’t know, but I can’t bring myself to like him.

  62. djw on May 2nd, 2010 10:51 pm

    You’re correct, it’s not a huge upgrade. But it’s still “real”. We’re not close to having a great offense. But we are close to having a good enough offense to win some of these close games, and win games with this run prevention team.

  63. Glen on May 2nd, 2010 10:53 pm

    Wow, I can’t believe there is so much love for another no bat, glove only, outfielder. ZIPS projects Langerhans to have a .314 wOBA (he is a career .311 wOBA). Whereas Byrnes was projected as a .302.

    Just what we need another glove without the bat. As long as Sweeney and Griffey are on the team, the M’s will fail.

    Don’t mess with the law of diminishing returns!

  64. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 10:55 pm

    Exactly, the M’s need a bat. Now. If Z continues to sit on his ass and think “oh this team will eventually score runs” then we’re just royally fucked.

  65. Dave on May 2nd, 2010 11:00 pm

    Another proxy for quality of opinion – thinking that upgrading offense is only way to upgrade team.

    The team is better now than than they were yesterday. You can whine about a big bat all you want – it doesn’t make you right.

  66. RyanHend on May 2nd, 2010 11:03 pm

    But what could we trade them for him? We already gave them a great starting shortstop. What’s left?

    Who!?

  67. Glen on May 2nd, 2010 11:04 pm

    To continue my point, now that I have thought about it a bit more, this move does not change anything. It is just transferring the offensive production of the DH to LF.

    From what I have seen (and I have watched every game this season), LF is not a problem defensively. The play yesterday was a communication problem and happens to every team now and then. I understand Milton cannot play LF everyday, but Langerhans in not the answer.

    If you have to bring in Langerhans to give Milton a breather, fine, but until we can find a LF and/or DH with some offensive prowess, nothing will change.

  68. circlechange32 on May 2nd, 2010 11:05 pm

    “Byrnes, who was living nearby in downtown Seattle, bolted out the front door of the clubhouse riding his beach cruiser bicycle mere minutes after the game ended. He made a right turn down a tunnel and then made a 90-degree left turn around approaching Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik before he could make eye contact.”

  69. Marinersmanjk on May 2nd, 2010 11:12 pm

    Dave, then how else are we going to upgrade our team? Our starting pitching has been great, and while our bullpen has faltered. But upgrading the bullpen doesn’t seem like the logical answer when our offense isn’t higher than 11th in any batting category.

  70. Glen on May 2nd, 2010 11:13 pm

    The team is better now than than they were yesterday.

    Yes, but only because Josh Wilson was brought up. It has nothing to do with Langerhans.

    Basically the M’s just replaced Byrnes with himself, but without pulling the bat back on a squeeze play. Over the season, there is only a 1 (-1.5 to -0.5) RAR difference.

  71. Utis on May 2nd, 2010 11:17 pm

    Is there any possibility to upgrade the team at catcher? Are there any potential trade targets? It doesn’t look like Bard is doing great in Tacoma. Is Pat Borders still playing? :-)

  72. Carson on May 2nd, 2010 11:18 pm

    If Langerhans gets the bulk of the playing time Junior has been getting, and Bradley sees more time at DH, I’m not really sure how you can call having Langerhans comparable to having Byrnes.

    That certainly makes the team better, and wasn’t realistic with Byrnes in place of Langerhans.

  73. djw on May 2nd, 2010 11:19 pm

    now that I have thought about it a bit more, this move does not change anything

    You need to think harder. If Langerhans plays often and hits his median projection (wOBA 314ish), the team would be improved in three ways:

    Offense: you add a 314 wOBA and push a 250 wOBA to the Bench. That’s a huge improvement

    Offense #2: you protect the health of one of our better offensive talents by keeping Bradley out of the fiedl.

    Defense: Bradley may not be terrible, but Langerhans is clearly better. Incremental improvements count.

    The first improvement is really big–60 points of wOBA is worth quite a bit. Add the other two, and this is a major improvement.

    If Langerhans is going to be used as a Bench player, it’s still an improvement because he’s better than the bench player he replaced.

    Your comment would only make sense if you think Griffey is about to significantly improve his offensive performance. Possible, I guess, but if you’ve been watching the same at bats I have, I don’t really see how this optimism is sustainable.

  74. KaminaAyato on May 2nd, 2010 11:20 pm

    Okay, I’m starting to beat a drum for a player incessantly, but if you’re looking for a catcher Utis, there’s Chris Iannetta who was recently demoted from the Rockies. But it’s only if there a good chance he can get his offensive numbers back. Otherwise, I’d pass on him.

  75. Grant on May 2nd, 2010 11:21 pm

    I see these moves a being very minor improvements, and they do not address the real problems on this roster.

    I don’t like the release of Byrnes, it takes away a piece from our optimal roster (outside of making a trade) which was a Langerhans/Byrnes platoon in left and Bradley as the full time DH. Thirty-four plate appearances is somehow enough to determine that Byrnes can’t hit anymore? Plus more than half of those PAs were against right handers and hitting righties is essentially not part of his job description with the Mariners. There is not compelling evidence that he can no longer be a productive hitter in a platoon role. Byrnes also has defensive value, he is a solidly above average defensive corner outfielder.

    The problem here is that this skill set represents a significantly better player than Mike Sweeney who has negative defensive value and who is at best a replacement level DH right now. Once again the Mariners do not have the balls to get rid of the their worst player (outside of Griffey), and I suppose the ridiculous bicycle incident makes this easier for them.

    I also disagree with the decision to bring up Josh Wilson instead of Hannahan. Their minor league statistics suggest that Hannahan is the better hitter, and both scouting reports and UZR agree that he is the better defender. He lacks experience at shortstop, but he’s looked good in what time he has gotten there, and seems capable of manning the position at least at a league average level. I don’t know who created this magic number of 50 PA he has to get in Tacoma, but to me it seems like he’s been playing baseball for a couple of weeks, he’s good to go.

    Hopefully Sweeney will be gone shortly, Hannahan will be called up, and we bring in a right-handed platoon RF or DH that represents an upgrade, because we still have all the same problems we had before this moves were made.

  76. Chris_From_Bothell on May 2nd, 2010 11:26 pm

    Um, Glen… you do get that Langerhans in left means Milton at DH… and that more Milton at DH means less Sweeney and Grief-y at DH… yes?

    Addition by subtraction. Ripple effect. Call it what you will.

  77. Glen on May 2nd, 2010 11:29 pm

    djw,

    You can’t pick which stats you are going to use. If you are going to use projected stats, you need to use them across the board. Or else the data is skewed.

    Actual projected stats are not 60 points. It is more like 3. That is not huge.

  78. Glen on May 2nd, 2010 11:32 pm

    Um, Glen… you do get that Langerhans in left means Milton at DH… and that more Milton at DH means less Sweeney and Grief-y at DH… yes?

    Addition by subtraction. Ripple effect. Call it what you will.

    Yes, I get that (as I wrote in my post). The problem lies in that the M’s are taking the current offensive production of the DH and putting it in the field. It’s like taking money out of one pocket, putting it in the other and then telling everyone you have double the money.

    As I also wrote, this team won’t be any better until Sweeney and Griffey are gone.

  79. JTP224 on May 2nd, 2010 11:37 pm

    I feel like the Brynes era is the worst/shortest era that any Mariner fan has had to endure. Any other candidates?

  80. IwearMsHats on May 2nd, 2010 11:41 pm

    Byrnes had an awful approach at the plate, he made the huge mental mistake on that squeeze play AND he looked awkward and spastic out in left. To me that’s enough to warrant a release.

  81. guschiggins on May 3rd, 2010 12:06 am

    worst/shortest Mariners era… offhand, Jeff Manto would be my nominee… current 1B Lee Tinsley as our starting LF did nothing for a month… Ron Wright hit into a double and a triple play in his only start…

    I would have liked to see them give Byrnes more of a chance though… so much for Byrnes/Garko as our big offseason platoon additions…

  82. Flowin on May 3rd, 2010 12:06 am

    I feel like the Brynes era is the worst/shortest era that any Mariner fan has had to endure. Any other candidates?

    Carl Everett

  83. Gomez on May 3rd, 2010 12:07 am

    I don’t have much of an opinion either way but I figure it’s worth throwing this question out there so we can get some clear ideas and/or numbers from people discussing the matter. I’m seeing a lot of platitudinal back and forth but not a lot of details behind what individuals believe.

    Let’s assume Langerhans will in large part supplant the lineup time given to the DH tandem, playing primarily in LF while Milton DH’s.

    How much does Langerhans’ defense add over Milton Bradley’s defense?

    How much does Langerhans’ bat add over Sweeney/Griffey’s bats?

  84. Gomez on May 3rd, 2010 12:09 am

    Also, assuming by ‘era’ this means ‘tenure with the team’….

    I feel like the Brynes (sic) era is the worst/shortest era that any Mariner fan has had to endure. Any other candidates?

    Have we already forgotten Scott Spiezio? Or Jeff Cirillo?

  85. JMHawkins on May 3rd, 2010 12:19 am

    Some things puzzle me.

    Byrnes is a more valuable player than Sweeney. He can hit better and at least play defense without embar, er, well, he can play defense. Sure seems like Byrnes could’ve had Sweeney’s 3 PAs per week. Yeah, yeah, “worst AB in ML history.” Sweeney’s GIDP the inning before would be the second worst, I imagine.

    I like Tui and think he could play a role on the big league club, but “backup SS” is not it. If that’s how they’re going to use him, better to send him down for real playing time and call up a SS. But why Jo. Wilson instead of Hannahan?

    Still, it’s progress. Not enough yet, but at least the right direction. Assuming that is, that Langerhans is the starting LF and Bradley is the DH. But then if Drayer’s tweet is correct, now we’ve got a pair of Pinch Huggers on the bench.

    There’s got to be a pony in there somewhere…

  86. the tourist on May 3rd, 2010 12:24 am

    I feel like the Brynes era is the worst/shortest era that any Mariner fan has had to endure. Any other candidates?

    I’m going to chime in with Brad Wilkerson myself.

  87. Gomez on May 3rd, 2010 12:27 am

    re: Josh Wilson over Hannahan… Hannahan is still breaking back in, plus he’s played no games at SS, and only six in the field at all (all at 3B). The team also mentioned wanting to give him 50 ABs in Tacoma and right now he’s at 37. And not that the numbers are a be all end all, but he’s not blowing away PCL pitching.

    Wilson pretty much gives you what you need out of a backup infielder, plus you can always send him off if/when bringing up Hannahan becomes a better option.

    P.S. Wilson’s hot hitting in the PCL, while a slight bonus, is a non issue since it seems he’s going to spend much of his time coming off the bench.

  88. Breadbaker on May 3rd, 2010 12:37 am

    No era is ever shorter than the Pokey Reese era.

    Byrnes’s approach at the plate was simply not major league quality. There’s no reason to compare him to Sweeney, because neither of them deserve a spot on a major league roster.

  89. scott19 on May 3rd, 2010 12:59 am

    I think it’s a very good reason.

    I agree with the end result, totally…though what I was trying to get at is that it cost the M’s at least two out of three potential wins in a series to get there, unfortunately.

    I feel like the Brynes era is the worst/shortest era that any Mariner fan has had to endure. Any other candidates?

    The Greg Hibbard era sort of came to mind as well…’til I realized that lasted a bit longer.

  90. thegroovewrangler on May 3rd, 2010 1:02 am

    I’m going to chime in with Brad Wilkerson myself.

    Wilkerson didn’t bother me that much for some reason. Not sure if it was in comparison to the other millstones the M’s dragged deeper into that season, or because he ended up playing pretty much exactly as I expected him to play.

  91. scott19 on May 3rd, 2010 1:13 am

    I was thinking of the Glenallen Hill “experience,” too, though that lasted longer…

    And, strangely enough, Glenallen Hill would almost look like freakin’ Albert Pujols if he were in this lineup these days! :o

  92. JMHawkins on May 3rd, 2010 1:24 am

    I feel like the Brynes era is the worst/shortest era that any Mariner fan has had to endure. Any other candidates?

    Rick White

  93. scott19 on May 3rd, 2010 1:40 am

    Rick White

    Ahh…almost forgot about the Gas Can — a man so classy he once “saluted” the fans for being Number One in his book!

  94. spankystout on May 3rd, 2010 1:53 am

    Rich Aurilia!!!!!

  95. Pine Tar on May 3rd, 2010 5:27 am

    It’s a bit of a curious move by itself. Sure, against RHP we shift Milton to DH and play Langerhans in left. But then we have what, 3 DHs and no backup outfielders.

    Against LHP, we do Milton in left and Sweeney is the DH?! More playing time for Sweeney!? Yay! I am not a fan of Byrnes, but Langerhans for Sweeney would have made a lot more sense. I am hoping we see some sort of move to replace Sweeney with a right handed outfielder today. Also, do we not have a back up first baseman any more?

  96. djw on May 3rd, 2010 6:03 am

    If you are going to use projected stats, you need to use them across the board

    Generally, I’d say that’s a good and fair point. But have you actually watched Griffey’s ABs this year? The thing about projections for unhealthy 41 year olds is there’s a much more significant collapse factor built into them, whereas Langerhans is 30 and pretty consistent and predictable in what he offers. Do you really think Griffey is going to hit his projection for the rest of the year? (Which, by the way, is down to 299 using the ZIPS 2010 update).

    Sometimes, old players are just done, and they fall off a cliff. To state the obvious, it’s asking too much of the projection systems to accurately predict precisely when this will happen.

  97. Pine Tar on May 3rd, 2010 6:35 am

    These moves seem to further erode defensive flexibility which will hamper late game strategy. Josh Wilson plays fewer positions Tui. Though you can debate how many positions Tui actually “plays”. We still have 2 DHs and we have a 12 man pitching staff. So,on days (most days hopefully) when Langerhans and Milton play we have a bench of Sweeney, Griffey, a catcher, and a Wilson. Dang!

  98. samregens on May 3rd, 2010 6:52 am

    It’s a bit of a curious move by itself. Sure, against RHP we shift Milton to DH and play Langerhans in left. But then we have what, 3 DHs and no backup outfielders.

    No, that’s wrong. In case of an emergency, Bradley would be the backup outfielder. Of course then we lose the DH and the pitcher hits, but would the pitcher really hit so much worse than Griffey/Sweeney do right now?

  99. Pine Tar on May 3rd, 2010 7:04 am

    samregens, it’s useful to have backups in non emergency situations.

  100. Adam S on May 3rd, 2010 7:42 am

    These moves seem to further erode defensive flexibility which will hamper late game strategy.
    Really? The primary late-game strategy is to pinch hit for Jack Wilson or the catcher. Tui/Josh Wilson is a non-factor in the catcher move and gives us a legitimate back up SS. Sure Tui is probably better at 3B than Wilson, but is a team batting Jose Lopez cleanup going to pinch hit for him? When’s the last time they ran for Lopez? And if this keeps them from pinch hitting Griffey for Figgins, that’s a side bonus.

    I agree with the rest of you post that having 2 DHs and 12 pitchers is a larger problem.

  101. Paul B on May 3rd, 2010 7:54 am

    With Byrnes gone, the last two moves of the off season have failed.

    Byrnes and Garko were signed to come in to provide a right handed platoon bat, and to do it cheaply. It was a good idea, picking up guys that looked like they could hit lefties, but in general weren’t good enough to cost much. However, it failed as they both washed out.

    So, will the Mariners look to try again with other players? Or will they give up on having right handers on the bench who would only be valuable in road games against lefties?

  102. Pine Tar on May 3rd, 2010 8:04 am

    Adam S, the team is going to be a bit hamstrung if they face a lefty specialist. They can’t pinch hit for Langerhans or Kotchman. Please Jack, DFA Sweeney!

  103. JMHawkins on May 3rd, 2010 8:51 am

    Ahh…almost forgot about the Gas Can — a man so classy he once “saluted” the fans for being Number One in his book!

    And don’t forget that thing he had on his chin. Forcing people to look at that day-glo goatee was probably more offensive than the salute.

    So yeah, perspective, this isn’t the first time we’ve had something to complain about (probably why we’re so nimble hopping off the bandwagon and chucking rocks…)

    Still at least two more shoes to fall today. One of course is the 2nd 40-man roster spot, and the other is the backup OF.

    They are going to have a backup OF, right?

  104. argh on May 3rd, 2010 9:24 am

    Interesting reading He Whose Blog Shall Not Be Mentioned on these transactions. It’s like he borrowed his talking points from Bush/Palin speech writers: vigorously disdaining all the alleged “finger pointing” and the “the blame game” being played in certain unnamed (but we you know who we you are) quarters. Somebody needs a hug.

  105. Carson on May 3rd, 2010 9:45 am

    Blasted, JMHawkins. You beat me to Rick White. This is why I want to give up sleep.

  106. beaudini13 on May 3rd, 2010 10:29 am

    What’s the opinion on Mike Lowell? He is rotting on the BoSox bench right now and he seems like he could work well against lefties at DH with Bradly out in Left.

  107. eponymous coward on May 3rd, 2010 10:32 am

    I think the John Parrish Era deserves an honorable mention.

  108. scott19 on May 3rd, 2010 10:36 am

    I think the John Parrish Era deserves a dishonorable mention.

    There, EC…I fixed it for ya! :)

  109. absolutsyd on May 3rd, 2010 10:42 am

    I say they start Jr/Sweeney in left and Bradley as dh everyday and immediately move Bradley the left. Let the pitchers hit, see how long it takes watching pitchers hit better then them for one of them to retire!

  110. firova2 on May 3rd, 2010 10:48 am

    argh: Did I miss something? When did the link disappear from the right column and why?

  111. argh on May 3rd, 2010 1:40 pm

    Go over to Lookout Landing ~April 28 — more than any human being could ever want to know about the kerfluffle. That’s at least a good bit of the story apparently. At least it’s all I’ve seen.

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