Now What?
After a disastrous home stand, the Mariners now head to Baltimore to try to get healthy off one of the league’s worst teams. However, this road trip won’t be interesting for the games themselves, but instead, how the team handles the inevitable roster decisions that should come at week’s end.
The weekend saw the Mariners get some much needed production from Ryan Langerhans (reached base nine times in 17 trips to the plate) and Michael Saunders (single, double, home run, and a walk in two starts), who split time in left field due to Milton Bradley’s absence from the team. While Bradley isn’t going to travel with the team to Baltimore, the initial “five to seven day” time frame given by the team suggests that there’s a good chance he’ll join the Mariners on Friday in Tampa, at which point, the M’s will have to make a move to get him back on the roster.
The easy decision would be to just send Saunders back to Tacoma, give Bradley the LF job back, and soldier onward with the Griffey/Sweeney platoon at DH. But, the Mariners are not stupid, and they know just as well as we do that it isn’t working, and that they can’t continue to just punt offense from an offense-only position. And so, I don’t think that’s what they’re going to do.
This team needs a spark, needs some life, and needs to keep Milton Bradley’s bat in the line-up (they are 10-10 when he starts, 2-9 when he doesn’t). Saunders hit for more power in a weekend than either Griffey or Sweeney did in a month, and he can actually play the field. The organization thought he was ready to help them last summer, and despite a tough start in Tacoma, he’s clearly a better player than either of the current DHs on the roster right now. And this team needs better players than they have as they try to dig themselves out of the hole they dug the last two weeks.
So, unless he just looks abysmal in the Baltimore series, I don’t think Saunders goes back to Tacoma. My guess is that one of the two DHs lose their spot, and according to Larry LaRue, it’s going to be Junior (side note – can you imagine what would be getting written right now if Bradley, and not Griffey, was the one sleeping in the clubhouse during a game? Just saying).
The Mariners can’t continue like they have been, and the performance of Saunders and Langerhans have forced the team to admit that they have options. They can’t continue with Griffey and Sweeney, and I don’t think they will. When Milton comes back, I’m guessing we see a new line-up, and honestly, it’s long overdue.
That LaRue piece is gulp inducing. Really brutal, but sometimes the truth can really, really hurt.
A successful series against the O’s hopefully won’t cloud the decision making going forward. We now know this team can’t handle even mediocre teams, let alone the good ones.
In Jack I Still Trust.
Hell, bring Ackley up too while we’re at it. Ackley getting used to major league hitting can’t be any worse than what we’ve seen so far this year from Figgins. I’m sure there’s an extra reliever in the pen that can go down to make the space.
As bad as it is to read that Jr was asleep during a game, after my initial cringe to reading it the very next thing I thought was “WTF, Wak. Get his ass up!” You don’t even have to be jerk about it, just go in there and tell him he’s needed.
Can you imagine what Lou would have done in that situation?
Doesn’t seem like Wak is in control of the team if there are literally people asleep on the job and he’s not doing something about it.
Dave – Is there any difference between Sweeney and Griffey? I know they both stink, but is there a big enough difference between the two statisticly to justify keeping one over the other?
Oh, and btw: the whole Sweeney thing is making more sense now. If Jr was having knee problems in spring training they probably brought Sweeney in as an insurance policy.
Not saying that I endorse that, just that I can squint and make sense of it that way.
LaRue link is still broken…must be a popular article?
Wak’s job is not to be a babysitter. It’s not uncommon for a DH (especially one with the night off) to be in the video room, or the cage or whatever.
You’re wanting Wak to run around the stadium trying to find a player every time they leave the dugout? It’s Junior’s job to be ready if called upon. Let’s not pass the buck here, franchise icon or not.
I still can’t wrap my mind around this… Griffey asleep during a game? Team decided not to wake him?
Griffey is on this team to provide leadership and model professionalism for younger players. How the hell is he supposed to do that now?
I’m not going to judge Griffey for this, he might have a good reason to be napping during a game. But, if you’re going to nap, you have to produce and he isn’t doing anything production wise. Release him/Convince him to retire.
What reason could that be?
Doesn’t Griffey live around Tampa? He could literally retire and drive home
Carson raises a good point. For all we (I) know, Wak might have just seen that Jr wasn’t around, made the call, and then found out he was asleep later.
I shouldn’t have assumed otherwise. My bad.
He was watching the Mariners.
There could be millions of legitimate reasons he didn’t get sleep the night before.
There are plenty of Griffey apologists out there but really, enough already.
Seems the primary reason Griffey is even on this team is to provide leadership. Not sure how he is doing that by, you know, SLEEPING ON THE JOB.
This is all about PR. It always has been. Here’s my best guess:
The team is trying to get Griffey to come to this decision on his own. If he stands up like Mike Schmidt did in midseason and tells the world:
“Look, I gave it my best shot, I can’t do it anymore, I’m hurting the team, I’m going to retire now for the good of the team, thanks to all you wonderful fans and my teammates, I love you all.”
Then they can have a night for him, give away a million bobbleheads, draw a whole lot of fans, make everybody happy, and get a better player in there.
Griffey needs to face reality and do this before they just pull the plug on him. Will he? Damned if I know, but I sure hope so.
Remember the Phil Rizzuto story? Phil was at the end of the line and a part-time player in 1956, when Stengel and George Weiss called him into the office to discuss the World Series roster. They went down the list player by player, and Casey kept saying I need this guy, I need this guy, I need this guy, till it dawned on Phil that Casey hadn’t said he needed Phil.
At this point Phil knew they were asking him to retire, and he did, with his characteristic grace. He moved into the broadcast booth, and the Yankees took care of him for the rest of his life. I have to believe he wanted that one more ring, but he was a team player, and he acted accordingly.
I would love to hear reports that Griffey is putting in extra time and really working at improving his performance. But whether it’s happening or not, the only stories we’ve heard are:
1) Wak & Cockrell have studied tape and determined that Griffey isn’t using his legs enough in his swing.
Result: He still doesn’t look like he’s bending his knees much.
2) Griffey is sleeping during the game (when he’s given the day off)
Result: A guy who’s supposed to be a role model and promoting team unity is setting a bad example.
I still doubt they’ll release Griffey due to the promotions still left and the PR nightmare. But I have no idea why he’s still playing fulltime.
Lupus.
I can’t get to LaRue’s actual story, but presumably this happened while the team was in the midst of their losing streak.
Sleeping on the job while the team is struggling to stay in the hunt in their division is unacceptable. There is no legitimate reason for that.
Great one.
It’s never Lupus.
——-
In all seriousness, who is our RHB DH right now if Sweeney is released?
Jeez Griffey, was it past your bedtime? Maybe the warm glass of prune juice put him over the edge.
Seriously, him falling asleep is just as bad as Bradley leaving mid game in my eyes. Griffey needs to retire, we all thought one more year and the idea of him getting one last shot at a ring was good and all, but he’s last year’s version of crippled Griffey minus the 19 homers he hit. Sweeney at least still cares and wants to perform at a high level. It’s tough but he is hurting the team more than helping it and he should just go back to Florida and spend time with his family. I think Saunders is ready to do his thing and become the good starting left fielder we think he could become.
Am I the only suspicious of the Larue article’s current unavailability. I wouldn’t be surprised if the M’s are doing some publicity control right now.
Tui would be better than Sweeney.
OK, damning with faint praise and all that.
But Tui could play in the field in a pinch, too, and would actually give the M’s some options — maybe Lopez or Figgins (both of whom have been stinking up the batters box) could do with a day off sometime.
I just got in to read LaRue’s article. Seems like it’s up and running now.
Here’s another link for those that can’t get the original to work.
Yes. Pitchforks. Or maybe inverted tridents.
Even if you assume that Wak knew where Griffey was, do you really think it makes sense to wake somebody up from a nap and make him pinch-hit? If I take a nap that lasts more than 15 minutes, I am usually groggy for half an hour or so.
Then again, it’s not clear how groggy Griffey would be worse than regular Griffey at this point in his career.
Here’s a link that was just twittered that seems to work for Larue’s article:
http://bit.ly/d5lv1D
And we’re talking about a 60 year old man, here.
He may need to take some Geritol and Metamucil before playing.
I’ll bet Jamie Moyer doesn’t nap in the clubhouse during games, and he’s a hunnert yeats old.
Jamie knows that if he dozes off someone is going to assume he’s died of old age.
“My guess is that one of the two DHs lose their spot, and according to Larry LaRue, it’s going to be Junior (side note – can you imagine what would be getting written right now if Bradley, and not Griffey, was the one sleeping in the clubhouse during a game?”
But Grandpa needs his naps!
I see plenty of guys going back into the club house after they are done batting. It’s not unusual. Granted they probably aren’t sleeping, but I’m inclined to give the guy a break. If I recall Kirk Gibson wasn’t even suited up when the Dodgers called on him for that classic pinch hit home run.
I’m hoping he comes to the decision on his own and retires so we can celebrate his career, rather than bemoaning his presence.
In the same light as LaRue’s article, I think everyone knows it’s coming– Jr, Wak, Z and the higher ups too. Everybody wanted it to work, and there can’t be a single person who thinks it IS working. The logical thing is that JR will be put on the 60 day disabled list– it gives everyone involved an excuse as to why it didn’t work out (bad knee, bad back, sleep apnea, anything but old age). Keep him there until we call up players late in the season, and then start his farewell tour. Give him a pinch hit at bat late in every game, so fans can applaud him one last time.
(I think it’s tied to the Braden perfecto on Mother’s Day in honor of his departed mother, but all this sentimental crap is really getting to me… I lost my own mother 7 years ago… Watched Griffey’s 1st AB– HR– at the Kingdome from the stands… As well as “the slide”…)
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn after the fact that all parties involved already knew about a move coming at this point (perhaps lending one “good” -sic- reason why Jr was asleep in the locker-room).
And I wouldn’t be surprised to learn Sweeney knows he’s being released too– he practically fired himself in the interview regarding changing hitting coaches yesterday.
The kids got a chance– and they outperformed the elders yesterday. There’s really nothing left to say. Lots of teary eyes, and hugs, and get on to the task at hand– winning ballgames.
It’s as bad as trying to figure out when to unplug the machines and take a loved one off life support. And (gulp)…
It’s time. Sadly.
The LaRue piece is encouraging. Let’s hope it happens. There is no reason for it to not. Everybody knows Griffey can’t play anymore. The PR backlash will be minimal. Please let Griffey go so we all can remember the 5-homerun-1995-divisional-series Griffey, not the 2010-weak-grounder-to-second Griffey.
Say it ain’t so Griffey!
As a Mariners fan an hour away from Baltimore, I was already planning to make the trip to see a few games. Now, this series is a whole lot more significant.
I have watched almost every game this season, and in most of those games Junior was either at the rail, or on the bench in support of his teammates
I think, if asked, Griffey will do the honorable thing. He’ll walk away rather than be fired. That’s just my sense, and it is time.
So, if we assume that Langerhans and Saunders are here on the roster to stay – and that say the Griffey retirement happens when Bradley returns (which is why they have this “grace period”), we have the following roster:
12 pitchers – 5 starters/7 relievers
Everyday Players
C R-Johnson
1B L-Kotchman
2B S-Figgins
3B R-Lopez
SS R-Wilson, Ja.
CF R-DTFT
RF L-Ichiro!
Flex Positions
LF L-Saunders
LF/DH S-Bradley
DH R-Sweeney
Bench
C R-Moore
IF R-Wilson, Jo. (although they may have trouble benching him if he continues to produce)
OF/1B? L-Langerhans
If Sweeney is still a real part of this roster it seems he would bat against LHP and Bradley would play in LF. Against RHP, Saunders would go to LF and Bradley would play DH.
That’s why the dropping of Griffey make more roster sense than Sweeney – we actually have quite a few LHB on our bench. And also, almost magically, the bench becomes much more flexible.
Now if you wanted to really shake things up and give up both DH’s, would you just play both Saunders at LF and Bradley at DH full-time while calling another person to be on the bench? And now carrying a 12-man staff really doesn’t look so bad.
Probably Bradley, once he returns. Or you could call up another position player from Tacoma and go with… wait for it… a deeper bench. Then just use the DH spot as a resting spot for your regulars.
One of the hard parts about not having a bench is that some of these guys need a day off (or 2).
No it’s not.
I’m a big fan of this site and of Lookoutlanding but I’m a little concerned about both sites trying to compare Griffey falling asleep in the clubhouse with what Bradley did. Griffey was not in the lineup, went into the clubhouse and fell asleep. Bradley, in the lineup, walks into the dugout and apparently completely lost his temper and left the stadium despite pleas from his boss not to leave. How on earth are those two comparable? If Bradley had done what Griffey did perhaps he would be vilified for it more than Griffey in light of what just recently happened. But, that’s because what Bradley recently did was not acceptable (notwithstanding the fact that Bradley apparently has issues which are are apparently now being addressed) and falling asleep in the clubhouse would be viewed in light of past events.
I’m saddened that Griffey is finished and agree he shouldn’t be dh’ing. But, to somehow compare his behavior with Bradley’s is beneath your analytical abilities. Same with Jeff Sullivan’s since he writes essentially the same thing on his site.
I love Griffey, he’s probably in my top five favorite players of all time, but love affair aside, it’s painful to watch him get up there and try to hit. His swing is no longer sweet, it’s lumbering, and I swear that I’ve seen him stumble slightly on more than one occasion like he’s lost his balance after he takes a big hack at a pitch. The M’s have a starting rotation that could be tops in the majors, and I hope Griffey recognizes that and bows out gracefully.
Really? Seriously?
Get some perspective man.
How about before they get in a game, when there is a chance the Manager might call on them?
Literally the only thing I said about Bradley was to compare the reaction of the media to the two different events. If you can’t see that Griffey’s being handled differently than Bradley, you’re crazy.
and the Griffey apologists come rolling in.
So, dont know if anyone noticed this. I was watching ESPN 2, during sports nation and on the bottom line scrolling information it said something to the lines of “several mariner players said last week that griffey was unavailable to pinch hit because he had fallen asleep in the club house”.. great now its on ESPN.. dunno what to take of it, just though it was interesting that this is getting around pretty quickly.
So, your assertion is that if Bradley in a game in which he was not in the lineup was found asleep in the clubhouse it would have been a huge blow up deal? Like, for example, having an article about it in the Tacoma News Tribune?
And, btw, I didn’t attack you personally or call you names like “crazy”. All I did was say the comparision was beneath your analytical abilities.
I feel like a kid on Christmas right before opening a present you think you know what it is. “please get rid of Griffey and maybe Sweeney too, please please” (as I read the transaction discussion concerning Milton Bradley in a few days).
Let’s look at your analytical abilities.
and…. when in the game did that happen? Was there any chance he would be needed in the game?
Munsrat, do you have a cite for that? That isn’t the way I heard it, and I would imagine that you were not there either?
The story’s now made ESPN, Dave.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5178137
Is the media really treating Griffey differently than Bradley?
Paul B, what was wrong with the analysis of that sentence? Was there something incorrect about it? Was the comparison to what Bradley did incorrect?
There were conflicting stories about what happened with Bradley in the dugout and on the way to the clubhouse but all of them said Bradley got very upset. That’s why I wrote the sentence the way I did. Also, I never said I was there. Paul, it would be helfpul if you’re going to disagree if you could disagree with what I wrote rather than with what you think I wrote.
Griffey mentally checked out and he quit on this team. Just because of what he once was doesn’t give him the right to not be accountable and not apologize for quitting on his team. This needs to be called as it is. If he wants to to take naps during games, he can do it while golfing in Florida. I want guys on this team that care, that dream of bringing a championship to Seattle. Frankly I’ve watched ten years of heartbreak, bad baseball, and losing and I won’t as a fan let crap like this fly anymore. Griffey needs to own up that he’s washed up and do the team a favor and retire. This is from someone who idolized Griffey as a kid in the 90′s and wanted him back one more year.
This seems to be a perfect opportunity for Griffey to retire, which opens up the DH spot to Bradley. The only question is should the M’s go with Langerhans or Saunders as the everyday LF, or should they upgrade via trade?
How about before they get in a game, when there is a chance the Manager might call on them?
This ain’t football, you don’t have to wak [sic] across the stadium and down a tunnel. The clubhouse is right behind the dugout isn’t it? Look I’m not saying falling asleep is good, I’m just saying guys are in and out of the clubhouse all game long.
I’m all for Griffey retiring, don’t get me wrong here. He needs to do it gracefully. The thought of the M’s having to “cut” Junior, kills me inside.
Shannon Drayer has a blog about it now.
OMG, super-Griffey-apologist Shannon Dreyer chimes in:
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=374&sid=319267
First comment: “Gee, thanks Shannon! I knew it was all a hysterical anti-Griffey conspiracy…”
The Dreyer post begs the question – so why does nobody wake him up now?
“Griffey, can you get up here and get pinch-retired for Rob?”
I think there’s a good reason not to wake him up–if he’s awake, Wakamatsu might actually put him in the game. And the players have figured out that’s detrimental to their chances of winning the game.
I have a lower opinion of Rob Johnson than 97% of the M’s fanbase. But I’m pretty sure he has a better chance to do good things at the plate than Griffey at this point.
For all of you frothing at the mouth for Griffey to be released, I think you are going about this the wrong way. It would be a huge PR disaster for the club to run him off in disgrace or ‘force’ him out. All of this publicity about being asleep in the clubhouse is only going to make matters worse. I question the wisdom of the players, and even LaRue (less so) going public with this. If they are already planning to ask him to retire, why make an embarrassing public fuss over it?
To me, the bigger story than Griffey sleeping in the clubhouse during a game, is the two players who ratted him out to the media. This is a bad sign, and something that will almost certainly cause division in the clubhouse, regardless of what happens to Griffey.
Just for the record, I’m a huge Griffey Fan, but agree that it’s time for him to go (I just wish he had retired after last season). By trying to come back, he put the club in an unfortunate position. I think they had other options than asking him to retire, or releasing him. With his knee’s the way the are, they could have just put him on the DL, and then given him to retire rather than try to come back….
It’s all very sad….
The LaRue story is interesting to me at another level. If it comes from players, off the record, it bespeaks a clubhouse not entirely engaged in the group hug that is Mariners baseball and, really, given who and what is involved is remarkable for that reason and indicates a high level of discontent. If it comes from somewhere in the front office, well, it’s even more amazing — surely unto God they wouldn’t be saying things like this unless they’d had a sit-down with Jr. and he flatly said he wouldn’t quit, they’d have to fire him. The wheels within wheels thing is probably the next step in press spinning on the story but I wonder if we’ll ever have a straight answer.
Its amazing how quick people are to jump to conclusions. What strikes me as something isn’t right here is the fact that this was published because of 2 of the younger players who shall not be named who could benefit from Griffey not being on the roster. I would want to hear Wak’s version as to what really happened. I have yet to see a post on here who is pissed the information was leaked in the first place. What happened to what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse.
This makes me wonder if people would have the same response had it been someone who they were not wishing were off the team. Its ironic how many people are complaining Griffey is getting to much playing time, but are upset that he wasn’t playing. I wouldn’t be suprised if Wak knew he was in there asleep and told him he would not be used that day. This appears to be an isolated incident and have seen Jr on the rail when he hasn’t been playing.
Munsrat: As much as all of us LOVE Junior, Milton got mad that he wasn’t HELPING the team and left out of frustration. Junior is in the clubhouse, during the game, and fell asleep.
To me there is a problem here of perception. The ever intense Bradley got upset that he was not contributing. He handled it immaturely but has owned up to his issues and is seeking help. Our icon can’t own up to the idea his career is done and is handcuffing the team with his very presence. Seems to me Junior is the problem and not Bradley.
I’m seeing a lot of “drat those young players and their lack of respect” comments. If the scenario was, “Why didn’t Wak get Griffey to PH?”, what should they have answered?
I still trust Jack. However, I am not so sure about Wak. He needs to be willing to light a fire under these guys so they don’t feel like they can fall asleep and there is no repercussion. That incident speaks volumes.
AND I do think the Cockrell firing was a message to Wak too! Wasn’t Cockrell a part of Wak’s staff? The fact that Jack Z did the firing is more than a bit curious…
Next up? Griffey, Sweeney, Brumley, all 3?
Dave Paisely/Charlie
Wow, way to over react to everything, including my sobering reference to pulling the plug on folks on life support. Sorry if it offended you.
Thanks for the advice about getting a clue too, but unfortunately I don’t need any help with perspective… Doing it twice in real life (for my sister– after six years of cancer– and my mother, after a car accident… that’s all the perspective I’d like, thank you).
And baseball is Ken Griffey Jr’s “life” as far as career, and if he won’t end it himself, the fanbase asking other folks to end it for him is not a bad analogy to something I’ve experienced a couple times myself, even getting in a shouting match about it with a doctor over my mother’s life ending (I alluded to how my thinking was linked with my emotional reaction to Braden’s perfect game in honor of his mother for a reason- duh!). Anyways, I’m sure Wak and Z don’t look forward to making the decision, and will wish the choice didn’t fall on them. That was the analogy.
But again, sorry if it sparked unpleasant feelings for you both.
Cheers.
Marinersmedic: It does not matter. He should be working on his hitting in the cage, out in dugout not asleep in a chair whether it was isolated or not.
This is a meme that is spreading like wild in the threads the last few days. Wak is not the problem. Sure, like many managers he can make questionable calls but last year he showed he would go with youngsters, guys like Jack Hannahan and Langerhans regularly. We all had no problem then.
The hitting coach was a firing made by management to look like they are “doing something.” Strictly PR. We don’t know what goes on in that clubhouse but what we do know shows Wak is doing the best he can with a strange bunch of situations. If you still like Jack, Wak should be given the benefit of doubt as well.
Bradley hits better vs. LHB’s than Sweeney does. Sweeney actually has a career opposite split. I think making Sweeney the regular DH vs. lefties just hurts the defense without any gain. Unless you really think neither Langerhans nor Saunders can hit lefties better than Sweeney.
I think there’s a big difference between “Griffey was asleep in the clubhouse” and “Griffey was unavailable to pinch-hit because he was asleep in the clubhouse,” and I don’t think we know which of these scenarios really occured on Saturday. I’d like to think if they really wanted to PH Griffey, Wak could send someone back them and roust him up. If not, this club really does have problems.
You know, it’s just not a big deal to me if he was asleep in the clubhouse. It’s a big deal to me that he can’t hit, can’t run, and can’t play in the field anymore, and he’s taking up a spot not only on the roster, but in the middle of the batting order.
Shannon Drayer hits the nail squarely on the head. This story is probably a lot of ado over nothing.
As for LaRue, he didn’t name the players/sources, didn’t say whether he confronted Junior about the incident, and waited until the team left for Baltimore to run the story.
I have no doubt that Junior will move down the bench, if asked, just like he did when it was clear he couldn’t play the field.
2010 Griffey is just sad to watch. (an I’m a huge Griffey fan) He may have had a huge spark on the 2009 club, but this year I think he will agian have another huge spark… When he retires. This team needs it’s young guys more than ever. 22 years of baseball, thanks for the memories Griff Now go home and be with your family.
Even if Griffey sleeps in the clubhouse at times, and even if he has a sleep issues, is it too much to ask that he stay awake for 2hr during the game?
The “kid” in Junior that we’ve all grown to love has two sides…the obvious one is the playful, backwards-hat version that lightens up the game, jokes with teammates, plays pranks, reminds us all how fun baseball is supposed to be, relates easily to Make-A-Wish kids, and is almost as much a friend to his own children as he is a parent to them. The other side is the petulant, spoiled, entitled, overly sensitive son of a pro ballplayer that once cried and pitched a fit because a rookie A-Roid had more fan-made signs in the seats at the Kingdome than he did. That is the Junior that used to intentionally try to hit me and others while taking BP, when I was on top of the 30-foot stair-ladder changing the metal placards on the old Kingdome out of town scoreboard, and who drilled me in the leg with a line drive and then fell down in the batter’s box laughing almost to tears about it. Some little part of Jr just isn’t a very nice or mature guy. Maybe that is the Jr. that was sleeping in the clubhouse, but I’m inclined to believe it’s just more of a common thing, and a non-issue.
I don’t really take issue with the sleeping in the clubhouse particularly, but I am pretty sure there’s still a big chunk of juvenile left in his psyche…if he had really totally matured by this point, I think he would have taken his career, and thus his body, much more seriously over the years. Now that he’s broken down and has the bat speed of an octogenarian, I think the kid in him is pouting internally at both his own ineptitude and that of the rest of the offense, and I have significant doubts that he will man up and retire. I am more inclined to expect he’s intent on being forced out and playing butthurt victim over it, at least privately. Hopefully he has the sense to be classy from a PR standpoint if it comes down to getting DFA’d.
If Griffey has really slept in the clubhouse his entire career than I say whatever. Although I am definitely a Griffey-apologist, I can still see that Griffey is only a shell of his former self and mostly hurts the team playing full time. Releasing him would be really tough to do just because of who he is,though it probably needs to be done
That being said, if LaRue thinks that the team would release Griffey on the road, he is absolutely insane. The PR would be bad enough with Griffey at home, doing it on the road might cause a riot.
ima-zeliever:
Junior’s not a good hitter. If you just woke him up from a nap he’d be a worse hitter.
If the account we got is accurate I’d want Wak to pull him into his office and discuss it after the game or the next day when he get’s to the ballpark. For all we know that’s exactly what he did.
How does waking him up, giving him hell and sending him out there to hit improve the situation? Do you think Junior doesn’t know he was in the wrong there?
I really don’t believe Figgins and Lopez have forgotten how to hit because Wak isn’t a fiery leader. Judging a manager by his in game decision making is one thing, but guessing at what’s going on behind closed door in the clubhouse is a fool’s errand.
Sweeney needs to go first. This season has been low on attendance. Releasing Griffey will cost the team on all fronts (attendance, merchandise,etc). Make Jr the backup DH and
get rid of Sweeney when Bradley returns.
For real, if you cut Griffey and signed Washburn to DH, you would be in the same position, or maybe better. At least he can run the basses and even pick up a few innings hear and there. He is a career .220/.304.220 hitter. Compare that with Griffey’s .208/.265/.304, and Sweeney’s .176/.263/.206, Washburn looks like he might be the best of the three becuase of his ability to get on base.
Yes, this is a joke, buts it’s funny because it’s almost true…
By the way, Cliff Lee hit .212/.212/.273 last year, so if he can learn to walk, maybe we can just use him instead.
The sad thing is that replacing Jr on this team with Tui or Hanahan won’t be the difference between this team contending or not. The main reason Jr is on the team is to try to make it to the playoffs one more time. Jr deserves to have that chance. Even if he is reduced to a LH PH role, he will stay on as long as they have a chance to contend. I only expect him to retire if the Mariners fall far off the pace. It would be fantastic to see a Gibson moment from Jr sometime this season.
As for what should happen next, how about going back to the six man bullpen. If Fister and Vargas can sustain their current performance and Lee and Felix perform as expected, that 7th bullpen spot is underutilized.
A lineup with Bradley as the primary DH, Saunders in LF, Sweeney as RH PH, Griffey as LH PH, and Langerhans, Josh Wilson, and the second catcher on the bench would be workable. For it to work, however, Wakamatsu must commit to pinch hitting for Moore, Johnson, and Wilson consistently. He also needs to give his regulars more days off starting with Figgins, Lopez, Kotchman and even Guti and Ichiro.
I really dislike journalists trying to dig up clubhouse dirt. I much prefer Dreyer’s angle of trying to bring out the human side of the player behind the performance.
ScienceDave,
Waking up Griffey, yelling at him and sending him out to bat is NOT what I had in mind at all nor did I say anything about Figgy or Lopez…
Are you sure you are responding to my comments or are you guessing at what I meant by saying that Wak needs to be willing to light a fire under these guys?
I was sure from the casual way you referred to it that you had never had to that in real life, so it was a surprise that you have had to deal with it.
All of which makes it even more surprising that you did. And just because you have dealt with it doesn’t mean you can or ought to treat it so casually.
Equating the end of a spoiled multi-millionaire’s sports career with the ending of a life in tragic circumstances is a textbook definition of a “lack of perspective”.
And yes, I’ve been there, done that too.
To paraphase Darth Vader, “Junior, you should not have come back.” Here’s hoping retirement will make him more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
That’s nice. He could do that as a bench coach too, and wouldn’t be an automatic out in the heart of the lineup.
The man hits worse than a pitcher now, and if by some miracle he does get on base it takes a HR to get him across the plate. It’s time for him to go.
Okay, well Drayer cleared up the Griffey sleeping incident rather well. It sounds like this has been a career long issue that Junior has dealt with. That is a lot different that the LaRue take on it… I like the way Drayer does focus on both the human side and on seeking the truth. She really doesn’t go for the hype.
Glad to see Wak made the right decision in not waking Griffey up from his beauty sleep. No need to watch him swing and miss at a 80mph fastball. I’d much rather watch Sweeney swing away at everything outside of the strike zone.
It appears that Jr has managed to hide his lifelong battle with narcolepsy really well. Coming soon to an after-school special near you – the Tragedy of Clubhouse Napping aka the Silent Curse – except when there’s snoring, of course.
(Some people are just too gullible to believe…)
It is interesting to note that it was Junior who drew the two out walk, which started the rally that effectively ended the 8 game skid.
However, I support Sweeney being released, and Junior being reduced to pinch hitting. I haven’t given up on the team yet.
If Drayer’s correct, it raises the question of LaRue’s motives and/or professionalism. Is he unaware of all this information that Drayer has at the tips of her fingers? Seems unlikely given he’s been doing the New-Trib sports beat since 1988. So why would he publish such a piece if it’s an outlandish exaggeration or badly misrepresents clubhouse reality. Some of this stuff isn’t adding up very well — like who’s leaking what to which reporter and for what purposes. And this isn’t blog chatter, it’s people with clubhouse access which makes it kind of a family spat. Maybe Baker for the tie-breaker?
Coming away from Safeco this weekend, I was absolutely shocked by Griffey’s bat speed. If you think his bat looks slow on TV (my condolences to the blind), multiply that image by the speed of moss to calculate Griffey’s bat speed as it appears in person from just behind the visitor’s dugout. It made me angry. Any front office that allows such a blatantly inept player to occupy a roster spot and accumulate plate appearances for about 20% of the regular season should be held accountable. I don’t know what to call it (negligence?) because they know better, and the fact they harbor two such players is even more confounding. It’s easy to get frustrated with the two colossal anchors mired to the sea floor, but it’s not their fault they remain tied to the ship.
I am curious as to whether anyone else was bothered by LaRue essentially calling Wak a liar, and/or insinuating that he was covering for Junior. I just can’t see Wak doing that.
“Last week, when some members of the press corps asked manager Don Wakamatsu why he hadn’t used Griffey as a pinch hitter for Rob Johnson late in a game, Wakamatsu was vague.”
Dave Paisley-
Actually lacking the same perspective as YOU, is not the same as lacking perspective. And in no way exemplifies a “textbook definition”.
And if you consider my mentioning it in the same breath as talking about losing my mother (something I mentioned the day after Mother’s Day), if you consider that a casual mention… Could you explain how you saw that as casual (Mr. Lack-of-perspective)? Other than the way you read it?
Part of my childhood dies when Ken Griffey Jr stops playing baseball. Part of my childhood will die when Dave Niehaus stops announcing games (no matter how senile his fake homerun calls get). And part of my childhood died when my mother died. Hence the analogy.
That statement I made is a big part of my thoughts about this topic. Again, I’m sorry if you took offense. But your opinion about my perspective is incredibly ironic.
If you can’t understand that, well I’m sure you’ll still have some last words about it, so I’ll leave you to it.
And I’ll still be sad when they pull the plug on Junior’s baseball life (since he’s unwilling to do it himself– so far at least).
Heck yeah Michael Saunders!
This team needs some fresh players.
Congratulations to LaRue for doing his part in finally begin pulling the curtain back on the Incredible Mythology of Ken Griffey, Jr.
What LaRue did was his job–reporting on what’s going on. It’s not his job to make anybody on that team look better than reality. I don’t seem to remember hearing this same ‘what goes on in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse’ crap when the innuendos were flying about what happened in the Bradley incident. Where was the desire for confidentiality then?
I generally like Drayer, but her take on this is an embarrassment. She has (like most others) fallen for the Griffey charm. Read smb’s personal story of Griffey in the thread above. That’s the man. Not the one that Drayer is covering up for.
I would also like to applaud the semi-courage of the two younger players who were at least were willing to speak out anonymously. They have have a greater sense of what this team needs than all of the other ‘veterans’ who have been covering for Griffey all this time.
Drayer’s excuse seems to be that this Griffey napping stuff happens all the time.
Really? And that’s a good thing?
Can we please stop talking about people dying. It has nothing to do with baseball.
No, LaRue’s right, that’s how teams generally go about it. For example, managers get fired at the end of road trips because then the team comes back to play in front of the home crowd, and based on the assumption that you play better at home, hopefully the new manager gets credit for the turnaround to boost his honeymoon period. Of course, this theory would be a little more comforting if we hadn’t just been through a homestand like this one.
you guys with the “Jr. deserves this, Jr. deserves that…” just kill me. I deserve to watch a ballclub that has a productive DH and a productive bench.
Who’s he going to pinch-hit FOR? There’s no one on the team he hits better than, including half the pitchers.
I am surprised with how many people are willing to overlook everything in order to keep Griffey around. This is not a man who stayed in a Mariner uniform his entire career. He left(I know…he saved baseball in Seattle). The Mariners let him come back for a year. Most teams let their old star come back for one day. On a different topic, why has the third base coach not been fired?
I hope the media takes the lead from Shannon Drayer and is honest about his sleep habits. Junior has always slept in the clubhouse and treating it like a revelation is lazy journalism. Mariners fans have known for years that Ken Griffey can sleep through anything:
I am a lifelong M’s fan and a nostalgic guy, but I hate to see someone playing in constant pain. Even if he was batting for average, it would still be mighty hard to watch him out there this year. I hope he enjoys one last outpouring of affection, retires gracefully and we can all manage to find lodging in the greater Cooperstown area in about five years.
Griffey napping all the time sheds light on that “awful” interview he gave Shannon before the game yesterday. It was hard to listen too and he sounded like he was only half-way coherent. Maybe they wake him up for interviews…
Come to think of it, I like the strategy of letting him sleep instead of taking AB away from a better hitter.
He did — LAST YEAR.
I don’t think that Griffey is going to allow things to end on a soar note. 60 Day DL trip and an end of the year return/farewell, is much more likely than things getting ugly where we cut him.
It would be a shocker if he didn’t exit gracefully…
From the subsequent articles about Griffey sleeping in the past and with Larry saying that neither had an ax to grind they probably didn’t think it would blow up like it has.
Perhaps I should clarify my post. Although it would be out of character for him, I think that Junior would be at least given a chance to tip his cap and give a goodbye speech going into the next homestand. I am not advocating for him to stay, but I am sure there is a camp that would love to see him replace Mike Brumley.
To further clarify, I was not implying that Larry LaRue was lazy. He assumed correctly that the fanbase who loved Griffey in his prime knew that Junior often napped at the ballpark. I think it was a bitter pill to swallow as a journalist for Larry to break this story. Few reporters would have been as fair handed when presented with that kind of information.
My only concern was that the national media would break out the tar and feathers without doing any research. Ken Griffey has a left a legacy that goes far beyond catnaps and he deserves a better sendoff at the end of his road.
You can get away with stuff when you are in your 20s and hitting double-digit HRs/year that you can’t get away with when you are 40 and near the Mendoza line.
I am curious as to whether anyone else was bothered by LaRue essentially calling Wak a liar, and/or insinuating that he was covering for Junior. I just can’t see Wak doing that.
Really? I can’t see why you’d be surprised. This team made a decision to place a nostalgic marketing campaign over fielding a winning roster, and that decision was made at a level well above Wakamatsu’s pay grade. He’s a second year manager, and hasn’t given any appearance of stirring the pot or agressively challenging upper management. Why would he start now? (And, yes, PR is a part of a manager’s job, much more so than being 100% truthful with the local media).
Just read Baker’s predictable reaction. This is what happens when team’s seasons go badly. The writers still need to find stories that will generate interest (and web hits). LaRue did that today. Baker did the same in 08 with his Ichiro clubhouse stories.
The Baker story is indeed predictable.
So question – LaRue obviously has excellent connections to the clubhouse and wouldn’t necessarily want to jeopardize that by running this story.
So was he fed and encouraged to run the piece by Ms management as a sign to Griffey to shape up or retire?
This is what I’ve been starting to think as well. Apparently everyone – players, other reporters, mgmt, and of course LaRue himself – knows that Jr sleeps in the clubhouse, and no one has felt it important enough to talk about until now?
Seems like either LaRue is trying to use this as a reason to turn sentiment against Jr because HE’S fed up, or more likely this is being floated with mgmt’s blessing to prepare the fan base for Jr’s exit.
For something that no one seems very upset about, it sure is getting a lot of pub.
Seems to me like there’s a big difference between napping before the game, perhaps closing your eyes for 15-20 minutes between at bats as a DH to refresh, and leaving the dugout in the 5th and being SOUND ASLEEP three innings later when you might be needed to pinch hit (or pitch or go in for defense).
While Dreyer tries to blow this off, a player not being available because he’s asleep is a story to me. I may be naive, but I think the whole thing is innocent. Wak didn’t want to say Jr was asleep or he didn’t want to say once he found out he was asleep he figured Johnson might as well hit for himself. And a player mentioned off-the-cuff that “Griffey was asleep when I went back to the clubhouse in the 7th” without thinking it might become a story.
question for everyone: before this story broke, who would you have rather seen gone? Griffey or Sweeney?
Its hard to make a case for either staying on the team, but I think we’d all be happy to just see one of them gone, which is probably what will happen – at least at first.
Personally, I’d much rather have Sweeney gone first, as I don’t think he brings anything more to the table than Griffey, and it wouldn’t take the organization turning their backs on a legend. In either case, our best lineup will probably be with saunders in left and bradley at dh, so if we hang on to either of them in a diminished role, why wouldn’t it be griffey?
If Griffey goes, I hope Sweeney is right behind him.
Bothered? No. I would actually have been surprised if he hadn’t “covered” for him. Having watched Wak, he doesn’t seem like the kind of person that has a need to air out players to the media, but instead prefers to deal with them privately. I think he’s handled it properly and professionally.
Not that it’s in any way casting aspersions on Larry LaRue, who is awesome, but:
I really don’t see any way this story wasn’t either fed to him, or the Mariners at least gave him the go-ahead to run the story.
They’re preparing the way for Griffey’s exit; I don’t get the Drayer story in that context, but maybe she’s just trying to stick up for Griffey in the face of what otherwise has been a pretty negative reaction.
I have little to add to the conversation except to mention how much I loathe Geoff Baker, what he writes, and the way he writes it.
do u want ortiz on this team
With regard to seeing a different lineup once Milton returns, I wholeheartedly agree. Part of me says I’d like to see Figgins 9th to take the pressure off. Another part (that loves Michael Saunders, I might add) would like to see Saunders 2nd. Oh, and wherever Milton is, he should be the DH.
I don’t understand what Baker was actually trying to say.
I thought he was implying that the manager/FO was partly to blame, but then he went out in the weeds and…well, I still don’t know wtf he was talking about.
Doesn’t a manager usually let a player know in advance that he might be pinch hitting? Now, Wakamatsu does not pinch hit as often as I would like. In this case, he may have simply looked for Griffey too late. On this team, barring factors such as injuries, Griffey and Sweeney should have more pinch hitting opportunities than they have been given. Looking at game logs, it looks like Griffey has pinch hit three times all season while Sweeney has pinch hit four times.
Perhaps, but being in the dugout is going to make it less likely to be called to PH. Griffey should be there, with a “I’m ready to go anytime!” attitude.
NapGate seems to be getting all the publicity, but the real news in LaRue’s post was that the M’s are on the verge of releasing Griffey if he doesn’t retire. LaRue doesn’t say where he came by that bit of info – certainly wasn’t from a couple of “younger players” on the roster. The way the article is worded, it could simply be his speculation that they have to do something soon. Or it could be some skid greasing. Considering Zduriencik’s rather uncomfortable comments last week, I think it’s grease.
I wonder if Junior is being stubbord with the M’s?
Refusing to gracefully take a PH role and show up for his bobblehead nights? Wwho’s he going to pinch hit for, Steve asks? Bradley, Guit, or Wilson in the seventh inning of a blowout.
To quote Shannon Drayer: “It is something he has done for years and for years when needed someone just woke him up.”
She hits the nail on the head: the real story is that Junior’s isn’t needed anymore, or at least he can no longer be what the team needs. So why not just let him sleep?
My absurd adoration of Ichiro plays into this.
What the hell!
What do you think Ichiro would do after seeing his abilities tail off to the point even the most loving fan (me) was upset to see him on the field as a regular, or even as a pinch-hitter*?
He’s politely and humorously announce his retirement after talking and, with that oddly perfect sincerity I’ve seen in person, thanking the organization, his manager and coaches, and his teammates. And he’d find something else interesting to do.
Ken Griffey is a good man by every account and was a great, great, great player (and Mike Sweeney is by all accounts another very fine man and was a great, great hitter) but there are other things they should do with their lives now.
*I’d estimate the latter might happen on his 110th birthday – having actually died and been cremated in Dec. 2073)