Respect

Dave · May 19, 2010 at 3:45 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Milton Bradley is going to rejoin the team tonight, and is in the line-up. He’s playing left field, and hitting sixth. Sweeney is DH’ing, and hitting fourth. This does not constitute anything like real change. So, fury, post one.

When Larry LaRue suggested last week that the Mariners were going to release Ken Griffey Jr if he didn’t retire, the organization’s most pointed response came from Jack Zduriencik:

“One thing Ken will always get is the respect and dignity he deserves in this game,” Zduriencik said. “And he’ll always get that from this organization and this community, and he deserves that.”

That has been the underlying reasoning given every time anyone defends Griffey’s place on the roster. Respect. He’s earned the right to go out on his own terms, we’re told. It would be disrespectful to ask him to retire, to place him on the disabled list, or to hit him anywhere other than fifth in the line-up, apparently. Those of us who think his presence on the roster is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with immediately aren’t showing the proper respect.

You know what? He’s not the only guy on the roster.

While the Mariners are respecting Ken Griffey Jr’s legacy by allowing him to tarnish it on a nightly basis, they are showing no respect for the rest of the team. Franklin Gutierrez, whose hard work has made him perhaps the best all around center fielder in the game, is seeing a prime season of his career flushed down the toilet. Cliff Lee, who was snatched from a contender after pitching in October, is seeing his talents wasted. Do they not deserve the respect of having major league caliber teammates? Is the work they put in all winter not worthy of the respect of having an organization deal with problems when they arise? What is respectful about asking the rest of the team to not just carry their own burdens, but compensate for the failures of a sacred cow?

While we’re all so busy respecting one man for what he did 15 years ago, we’re disrespecting the work of everyone else in the organization who is actually worthy of a job in 2010. The thousands of hours of preparation that went into this season by hundreds of individuals who receive paychecks for what they do now, not what they’ve done in the past… it’s all being undermined on a daily basis by the hero who can’t walk away. Doesn’t he owe them the respect they deserve?

Why is Respect Avenue a one way street?

Somewhere in the past few months, wires got crossed. Ken Griffey Jr has replaced the paying customer as the one that the organization is trying to please. In the process of respecting him, we’ve all been disrespected, being sold a product that isn’t worth the price of admission. Now, here we stand, with the season on the line, facing the prospect of four months of meaningless baseball, and Ken Griffey Jr is still on the team, Milton Bradley is still playing left field, and Mike Sweeney is hitting cleanup. When the team absolutely has to win a game, they’re still punting.

We’ve respected the hell out of him for 20 years. Now, it’s time for him to return the favor and GO AWAY. It’s time for the organization to respect the fans again and give us a team we can be proud of. We’re not proud of this roster. We hate this roster. We never want to see this roster again.

Ken Griffey Jr’s cup runneth over with respect. Rather than asking for more from all of us, he should use some and retire immediately. If he won’t do it on his own, then the organization needs to grow some balls and ask him to. If he declines, then they need to grow some bigger balls and put him on the 60 day disabled list. Every day he spends on the roster, you’re choosing to give the entire fanbase the finger in order to keep one man’s ego from being bruised.

It’s stupid. It’s time for this charade to end. No more respect. Go away, Jr.

Comments

142 Responses to “Respect”

  1. mrt1212 on May 19th, 2010 3:56 pm

    Jr. needs to do what this spineless FO won’t do. Just saying that before the apologists flood in.

  2. ima-zeliever on May 19th, 2010 3:57 pm

    Thank you for writing that, Dave. Obviously there are a lot of other problems. However, Junior seems to personify what is wrong with this team and the strange way other things not called winning games is important. Maybe we could just stop keeping score and make sure both teams feel loved and respected. The World Series is awarded accordingly.

  3. spankystout on May 19th, 2010 4:00 pm

    Why in the hell is Bradley in LF Wakamatsu?!?

    These decisions by Wak are so perplexing. I never ever thought I would miss Hargrove and Johjima.

  4. Westside guy on May 19th, 2010 4:00 pm

    Even if a person thinks the Mariners owed something to Griffey – that debt was paid last year.

    I can’t believe how stupid Wak and Z are looking. This is Dayton Moore level stupidity. This is Bavasi level stupidity. It’s like the Z from last year has been replaced by a Z puppet, and if you were just to pull on the zipper you’d see either Moore or Bavasi inside, waving the arms and moving the mouth.

    Don’t go to the games. ACTIVELY ENCOURAGE others to not go to the games. This has to end.

  5. Chris Hafner on May 19th, 2010 4:01 pm

    Dave, this is it exactly.

  6. thehemogoblin on May 19th, 2010 4:02 pm

    What is Junior accomplishing as a baseball player now? He’s a lock for the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, he’s not going to make the playoffs with this team, he’s playing far and away the worst baseball of his career, he’s a shell of his former self. Is he so vain that he doesn’t see what he is doing to his team?

  7. Oolon on May 19th, 2010 4:02 pm

    Maybe the fanbase and the blogbase are two different animals.

    At the games I’ve gone to Griffey gets the biggest cheer when they name the lineup over the PA system before the game.

    And when he comes to bat he gets a standing ovation from many people.

    I agree that he should be gone, but I don’t think it’s as unanimous of an opinion among the fans in the seats at the games as it is here at ussmariner.

  8. beef on May 19th, 2010 4:02 pm

    I don;t need the game thread tonight! I get the privilege of actually being at the game! what is today – A Fistivus for the rest of us!

  9. spankystout on May 19th, 2010 4:04 pm

    “Dayton Moore level stupidity.”

    Hahahhahaahahahaa thanks I needed a laugh.

  10. don52656 on May 19th, 2010 4:04 pm

    I remember all too well how much respect Griffey had for his fans in Seattle when he decided he needed to play closer to his family, held the team hostage so he could play in Cincinnati, and then talked about receiving death threats. For that reason, I never understood the joy which accompanied his return to the Mariners fold.

    So now we have the shell of a great ballplayer playing for us, and we like that he wanted to come back. It’s really too bad he didn’t retire last year. Now, we’re going to have to deal with a second round of dealing with a relationship gone sour.

    But, he sure was fun to watch, way back then.

  11. thehardstuff on May 19th, 2010 4:05 pm

    Perhaps it’s time to start holding up signs at games asking Griffey to retire.

  12. Sutiyo on May 19th, 2010 4:09 pm

    Maybe the fanbase and the blogbase are two different animals.

    At the games I’ve gone to Griffey gets the biggest cheer when they name the lineup over the PA system before the game.

    I look at my dilemma as a fan this way: I’ve continued to cheer my heart out for Griffey at games this year because he’s a legend, but I want him off the team and at the very least out of the lineup. That part of it is on Wak, he needs to not be in the lineup and somebody between JackZ/Griffey needs to figure out how to end the torture, now.

  13. diderot on May 19th, 2010 4:09 pm

    No, Griffey is not the only problem on this team. But the way he’s being handled symbolizes the biggest problem with this team–placing some mythology about what should be done…ahead of fielding the team with the best chance to win.
    Thus, Dave has nailed this.
    And I particularly like his linking this to the real world.
    The team is playing so poorly that even more people will stop attending.
    Less people means less revenue.
    People working for little money in the organization are going to lose their jobs because they couldn’t handle speaking truth to Griffey.

  14. Westside guy on May 19th, 2010 4:10 pm

    Griffey may be getting cheers from the fans present – but have you noticed the attendance figures? It’s quite obviously not just the blogosphere that cares about this.

  15. Xteve X on May 19th, 2010 4:11 pm

    Well said Dave and don52656.

    I openly question whether or not this front office cares more about 1995 nostalgia and packing in 35,000 for the next meaningless Griffey tchotke giveaway over fielding a competitive product.

    But as pointed out … they probably figure they’re giving the fans what they want, so as long as the fanbase doesn’t demand a winner and is content to show up and applaud the dessicated corpse of Jr. no matter how poorly he plays, this is what we’ve been reduced to I guess.

    I too feel badly for Lee and Guti, Fister and Vargas and everyone else who’s putting in the hard work this year.

  16. 6-4-3 on May 19th, 2010 4:11 pm

    Is he [Griffey] so vain that he doesn’t see what he is doing to his team?

    That might be part of it, but it’s got to be tough for him to admit his skills have declined so much. I’m guessing he’s thinking “I can still break out of this slump. Any day now…”

    And even though the FO is preaching this “respect” mantra, I’m sure they will feel a huge weight lifted off their shoulders when Griffey finally admits he’s done and retires.

  17. MBK on May 19th, 2010 4:12 pm

    Thanks for that, Dave. The Fo needs to hear more shit just like this.

    Just because Griffey can’t play anymore doesn’t mean we hate him. Personally, it kills me inside to see this great player a shell of his former self. Every feeble ground ball, every lazy pop-up, every badly fooled K tears a bit of the good memories away.

    I was excited for this season, but now it’s become a joke all the while Z and Wak do absofuckinglutely nothing to fix any of the glaring problems.

    The FO will sit on the fence while the season has been frittered away for the sake of bobbleheads and glueing teammates to folding chairs.

    Pathetic. Absolutely, pathetic.

  18. seattlesundevil on May 19th, 2010 4:12 pm

    Can we PLEASE print this out and wallpaper Safeco with it?

  19. georgmi on May 19th, 2010 4:12 pm

    One hesitates to point it out, but this is not the first time Junior has held this team hostage to his ego and his desire to play where he wants, on his own terms.

  20. diderot on May 19th, 2010 4:13 pm

    because they couldn’t handle speaking truth to Griffey.

    Meaning ‘they’ as in the front office.

  21. Adam S on May 19th, 2010 4:14 pm

    The Mariners don’t get a game thread tonight. This roster doesn’t deserve our attention. Do something else with your evening.
    Delete this if you think it’s off topic, but [deleted, off-topic]

  22. wanderinginsodo on May 19th, 2010 4:17 pm

    First off we don’t know what conversations have taken place between the FO and Griffey, and yes, they have his back. My prediction is a weekend-home retirement announcement. Hopefully, he won’t still be on the 25 man roaster until June 18th, but you can bet on a big Griffey Appreciation week at Safeco versus the Reds. The M’s are going to milk his retirement for attendance reasons and ‘respect’ reasons.

  23. MBK on May 19th, 2010 4:18 pm

    I agree that he should be gone, but I don’t think it’s as unanimous of an opinion among the fans in the seats at the games as it is here at ussmariner.

    Only fans who seek knowledge understand. The rest are content to beg for garlic fries and text friends during the game – “i m 10 rowz up on da 1st bayce side, c me wavin lol”

  24. joser on May 19th, 2010 4:18 pm

    At the games I’ve gone to Griffey gets the biggest cheer when they name the lineup over the PA system before the game.
    And when he comes to bat he gets a standing ovation from many people.

    I don’t know about a standing O, but he definitely gets one of (sometimes the) loudest cheers.

    But those are from people in whom (I assume) hope still springs that they’ll get to see his classic HR swing — and the classic HR result. We’ve been seeing the former, but not the latter. There will be a new influx of these folks when school lets out, but then what? How many times do people let themselves get disappointed before they stop cheering, or even coming to the ballpark? At what point does this just become something akin to leafing through your high school yearbook and remembering when you still had hair and a Camaro and a date for the school dance?

    I was at the game in the last homestand when Griffey hit a “ground rule” double. The (new) color scoreboard flashed a fancy “Griffey Blast!” graphic with a “Matrix”-style background. Clearly they’d worked that up in the offseason in anticipation of playing it for Griffey home runs; and just as clearly, the stadium staff had already given up and were playing it for any XBH. I realized diminished expectations is a Mariners’ fan’s birthright, but is that really where we want this to go?

  25. Harrison on May 19th, 2010 4:19 pm

    we’ve all been disrespected, being sold a product that isn’t worth the price of admission.

    Well said, Dave. I had loved going to the ballpark to watch this team when the season started. Now I can barely get myself to watch them on TV, let alone buy another ticket to a game. Until the Mariners get serious about winning by putting forward their best product, they don’t deserve anything more than they’re getting now.

  26. Oolon on May 19th, 2010 4:20 pm

    Griffey may be getting cheers from the fans present – but have you noticed the attendance figures? It’s quite obviously not just the blogosphere that cares about this.

    As are 20 other major league teams. Only 9 have increases in attendance this season over last… It could be that Griffey’s presence is depressing attendance around the country and not just here!

  27. ABP52380 on May 19th, 2010 4:21 pm

    UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!! Haha, love it. Friggen mariners.

  28. jsa on May 19th, 2010 4:21 pm

    @Oolon:

    Maybe the fanbase and the blogbase are two different animals.

    The only fans that cheer anymore are the casual fans that know nothing about the game, know nothing about Ken’s past accomplishments and know nothing about how badly he is tarnishing his own image.

    Johnny-come-lately fans, bubble-gum-card fans, 3 games a year fans, and we drove all this way, why not take in a game fans.

    Oh he did a lot for baseball in Seattle they say.
    Oh this is the house that Griffey built they say.
    Oh look at his record they say.

    The fans in the seats groan every time his name is announced. The beer and hotdog crowd chears wildly.

    But the crowds are getting thinner by the day. Even the beer and dog crowd is starting to find other ways to spend a summer evening.

    A couple more hopeless seasons and dwindling attendance and this team could be bought and moved by owners that want to win.

    Can you spell Sonics?

  29. IllinoisMsFan on May 19th, 2010 4:21 pm

    Do we really expect Jack Z to say anything different to the press?

  30. dlukas on May 19th, 2010 4:24 pm

    What kills me more than watching this team lose is watching my childhood hero look the way he does out there. No one season of baseball has the importance that Griffey’s entire career had to me, but it’s being bleached out by what he’s doing right now. I hate that 20 years from now, people who never watched him play will see the 2010 stat line at the end of his career. Even last year I got chills just seeing #24 come to the plate in an M’s uniform again, but now it’s honestly heartwrenching.

  31. Chris Hafner on May 19th, 2010 4:26 pm

    I don’t know that it’s necessary to slander the casual fans and their knowledge of the game; I think it’s sufficient to say that Griffey’s performance does not merit his continued play and that the front office has a responsibility to the fans and the other players on the team.

  32. Mid80sRighty on May 19th, 2010 4:30 pm

    And I was mocked a bit, not on this blog, for still holding a grudge against the man who handcuffed this organization back in 1999.

    Ahh, how history repeats itself.

  33. Bugeater on May 19th, 2010 4:30 pm

    I loved Griffey back in the day, and then he left and broke our hearts. Then he returned and we had our happy reunion. That was last year. Anybody with a brain could tell that the skills were deteriorated and that it was time to call it over. Griffey should look at Willie Mays who also played one year too many, now everybody remembers him as much for that last disappointing year as for everything else he did. What a way to destroy a legacy…Jr. should retire today and join the team as a coach or something, that way he can still be with the team but free up a roster spot for somebody who can play. As to the rest of the team…I just don’t care enough to write any more.

  34. amnizu on May 19th, 2010 4:30 pm
    I agree that he should be gone, but I don’t think it’s as unanimous of an opinion among the fans in the seats at the games as it is here at ussmariner.

    Only fans who seek knowledge understand. The rest are content to beg for garlic fries and text friends during the game – “i m 10 rowz up on da 1st bayce side, c me wavin lol”

    These are the same fans who cannot pronounce “Chone” and who cheer at EVERY and I mean EVERY fly ball. It gets rather annoying to have to deal with everyone standing up at pop fly outs and warning track power. I guess what I am saying is the opinion of the fans in the seats doesn’t hold much water around here. They would be just as happy with an actual winning team as the rest of us.

  35. spankystout on May 19th, 2010 4:31 pm

    If you buy a 24pk of Pepsi you get a Mariners free ticket coupon (14$value). My coupon is currenly residing in the garbage waiting to be dumped next Monday. Don’t go to the games! Don’t encourage Griffey or the front office. All these Griffey fans who give a standing-o are
    enablers. Please stop.

  36. Rick Banjo on May 19th, 2010 4:33 pm

    I don’t think it’s disrespectful to do things that are best for the ballclub, ie-bench him or release him and knock off the crap.

    Suggesting that Griffey has dis-earned his due respect in this town is a bit needlessly mean. His playing time is being granted to him for management, and that’s where your finger should be pointing. It’s only part of a larger wrong.

  37. Harrison on May 19th, 2010 4:37 pm

    Don’t go to the games!

    That is the screaming message. It’s the one thing we can control.

  38. Sutiyo on May 19th, 2010 4:42 pm

    Well, sounds like Sean White got sent down. There goes one headache.

  39. spankystout on May 19th, 2010 4:46 pm

    Sean White optioned. I guess Wak really believes in Jesus.

  40. grantruby on May 19th, 2010 4:47 pm

    My thoughts exactly, Dave. I’m posting this everywhere.

  41. wsm on May 19th, 2010 4:48 pm

    This post would’ve been a good argument last November before Griffey signed. Now its all pointless.

    Releasing Griffey today does nothing to show “respect” to Lee and Guti, etc. Their season is toast. Give Lee or Guti or anyone else on the team the ultimate power to release Griffey and call up whoever they want in his place. I guarantee you they’d all elect to keep Griffey around.

    If you really want to respect those guys, you’ll ship them out of town.

  42. dang on May 19th, 2010 4:49 pm

    IllinoisMsFan. I wouldn’t expect Z to say anything different to the press, but his actions suggest it is more than just press-speak.

  43. The_Waco_Kid on May 19th, 2010 4:52 pm

    While there’s a lot of truth to this post, you can’t say the entire Mariners organization is completely incompetent or unworthy of our support simply for not demanding Griffey to retire. I would love to see more changes too, but we have not dug ourselves this terrible hole because of Griffey. Lots of these guys have not hit, and lately no one but Ichiro and the call-ups are REALLY hitting. Even Guti is slumping. Griffey leaving would be best, but he’s not taking up someone’s spot on the roster whose bat could make up for Lopez and Figgins and who could play LF for Bradley.

    We have 99 problems and Griffey is only one of them. Be mad, but spread the anger around a bit more.

  44. wanderinginsodo on May 19th, 2010 4:55 pm

    The Griffey-Armstrong relationship is handcuffing JZ. Ultimately, Jack can’t go against the man who hired him and the man that could fire him, especially with the team doing as poorly as it is.

    JZ is a smart man, and I think there’s a lot going of dynamics going on that we will never know. We just suffer as fans…

  45. Henry Cotto Salami on May 19th, 2010 4:58 pm

    Don’t go to the games!

    I’ve been thinking of doing the opposite; going to the games and booing loudly and making signs saying “Griffey Retire” or “Stick a fork in ‘The Kid’, He’s Done”or hopefully something more clever. I don’t care if it makes people upset. They should be upset! This team sucks and zombie Griffey is a big part of why.

  46. IHaveALittleProject on May 19th, 2010 5:01 pm

    This level of disrespect can be summarized very simply. I’ve been a diehard fan for 20 years. I’ve gone to every game I could as an adult, going to probably an average of 5 games a year as day trips from Portland.

    My wife asked me if I want to go to a game this summer for my birthday with some friends. I dodged the question. She asked again a few days later, and I said “honestly? No. Good idea, but they’re so awful and making such bad decisions I don’t get any enjoyment from watching.”

    Memo to management: you’re going to set, and re-set, and re-set the record low safeco attendance record this summer and fall if you don’t start giving us a reason to cheer again.

  47. Paul B on May 19th, 2010 5:01 pm

    Would they ask me to leave Safeco if I wore a paper bag over my head?

  48. bongo on May 19th, 2010 5:01 pm

    Sorry, I’m with Z on this one, but not with Wak. Z is right that Jr should decide when he retires. However, Wak should decide when he plays, and that should be seldom. If Jr. is ok with that, he can stay on the roster and retire at the end of the season. Let’s make some of the other under-performers walk the plank instead.

  49. beckya57 on May 19th, 2010 5:04 pm

    I’m with the last comment. I think what we’re seeing is what a lot of us were afraid we would when JZ came on board: that we’d discover ownership was the fundamental problem, and that Bavasi’s disastrous regime was a much a symptom of this as the problem. Z isn’t stupid, so I think it’s fair to assume his hands are tied. He has to be seeing the same things we are. It’s not just about Griffey either, it’s about keeping and using non-talents like Sweeney and Johnson because they’re seen as good guys. Other teams make their decisions based on baseball talent. I’ve been following baseball for 40 years, and I’ve certainly seen plenty of teams make poor judgments of talent, but I’ve never seen a team just ignore obvious indicators of lack of talent they way this one does.

  50. jjenson on May 19th, 2010 5:07 pm

    I think one thing is dead wrong. Griffey is not tarnishing his reputation. 20 years from now who are people going to remember the real Griffey or this years version?

    Obviously when you think of greats who have moved on to other teams in sports and play horrible are never remembered for that except for seldom casual talk to prove points.

    So the fact that he is maybe hurting this years reputation is one thing but his legacy is no way going to be diminished by this years horrible play.

    I do agree he should not be playing everyday in anyway. The team should field the best team out there.

    But in all honesty his first ballot hall of fame is already signed he is in Cooperstown and hardly anyone will recall of this terrible season when remembering one of the greatest players who has ever graced this game.

  51. Dave Spiwak on May 19th, 2010 5:07 pm

    It will be interesting to see how long it takes Milton to pull a Roger Moret in left field. Maybe we should call him “Afraid to death of flying things”!

  52. beckya57 on May 19th, 2010 5:07 pm

    The endless love affair with Willie B. was another example of the same phenomenon. I don’t care how nice these people are, they’re ballplayers, not my friends. I go to games to see quality play, not a love-in. I think ownership drew a hugely inaccurate conclusion from the 1995 and 2001 seasons: sure, players like Jr and Edgar were fun to root for, but what people really liked about those teams was that they won. Heck, people even liked RJ because he was a winner, even though he was obviously a pretty prickly character.

  53. JMHawkins on May 19th, 2010 5:09 pm

    Maybe the fanbase and the blogbase are two different animals.

    At the games I’ve gone to Griffey gets the biggest cheer when they name the lineup over the PA system before the game.

    Self-selecting group. Go to a Judas Priest concert and you’ll find a lot of metal heads. Show up at the same venue next week for the Gypsy Kings and you’ll find a different crowd who probably wouldn’t cheer Rob Halford’s vocal quite so much.

    You get the fans of what you put on the field.

  54. joser on May 19th, 2010 5:11 pm

    We have 99 problems and Griffey is only one of them. Be mad, but spread the anger around a bit more.

    This is just Dave’s first post. He has many more in him, I’m sure, and if things don’t change we’ll be reading them.

    Buckle up: we’re on Mr Frog’s Wild and Angry Ride through this team’s mistakes and shortcomings…

    I don’t know that it’s necessary to slander the casual fans and their knowledge of the game; I think it’s sufficient to say that Griffey’s performance does not merit his continued play and that the front office has a responsibility to the fans and the other players on the team.

    Agreed. Those “casual fans” — as annoying as they might be to some — are the people who pay the bills. If the Mariners had to depend on just “the informed” as a fanbase they wouldn’t stick around very long. Without casual fans USSM wouldn’t exist, because all of us were casual fans once; I don’t know about the rest of you, but I wasn’t born “informed” (and I probably still am not. Informed, I mean. I’m definitely born. Just ask my mother. On second thought, don’t: she’s a Yankees fan).

    Casual fans are a huge and important part of baseball, and always have been, whether we like it or not. Whether they’re cheering at every fly or abasing themselves for garlic fries or yacking on their cellphones, they have every right to be in the stands along with the rest of us… and they have every right to demand a winning team, too. Even if they can have a fun day out at the ballpark without one.

  55. beckya57 on May 19th, 2010 5:11 pm

    I’m also very angry that I chose to buy a 16 game package this year, for the first time since 2002, believing that the team was finally going to be good again. I will think very long and hard before doing that again, and I suspect I’m not the only one.

  56. blackc5 on May 19th, 2010 5:11 pm

    COuldn’t possibly agree more. Its time for some respect for the fans. You know, the ones that pay every-freakin-ones salaries on this team.

  57. Marinersdude83 on May 19th, 2010 5:16 pm

    Here is the deal guys, the Mariners couldn’t give two shits if they win or lose (obviously!) so why the fuck should we!

    I’m gunna go spend time with my wife and son tonight. Maybe we will go to the playground and walk around the park.

    If Wak an Z want to sit around with their thumb up their ass an watch the shit fest that is the 2010 season (seeing Jr. atempt to hit ) let um!

  58. bermanator on May 19th, 2010 5:16 pm

    Here’s the thing…

    I don’t blame Griffey so much, because I’m sure he still thinks he can do the job. I would guess that if you strapped him to a polygraph and asked him if he would be his old self again if the manager would just play him every day and everyone else would leave him alone, he would say yes.

    But if that’s the case, what is management’s excuse? I find it impossible to believe that Z believes that Griffey can still get the job done, which makes me think that every day he is still on the roster it is because Z is unwilling to have the difficult conversation, which makes me lose more respect for him every day. This is part of his job, even if it is a sucky part, and if he can’t manage to do that it’s hard to maintain confidence in management going forward.

  59. currcoug on May 19th, 2010 5:21 pm

    In retrospect, I agree that Griffey should have retired in 2009. However, the level of vitriol directed toward Griffey on this thread is disturbing and unnecessary.

    On the other hand, I am still having difficulty curbing my anger in regards to Bavasi trading Guillen, Cabrera, Choo, Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and drafting Morrow/Clement (in lieu of Lincecum/Tulowitzki), etc.

  60. Breadbaker on May 19th, 2010 5:22 pm

    Do they really think this is the lineup supporting him that Doug Fister, who is certainly not part of the problem, deserves supporting him tonight?

  61. ChrisK on May 19th, 2010 5:25 pm

    I’ve been thinking of doing the opposite; going to the games and booing loudly and making signs saying “Griffey Retire” or “Stick a fork in ‘The Kid’, He’s Done”or hopefully something more clever.

    If you want to protest the team, I don’t think continuing to purchase their product will result in your desired effect.

  62. msb on May 19th, 2010 5:29 pm

    I don’t find it difficult to believe that Griffey could still think he wasn’t yet done. He has been in baseball clubhouses literally from infancy. He watched his father play baseball until he was 41. Unless yet another portion of his anatomy fell off, he likely thinks he can get it turned around. It might take someone like his dad to tell him he can’t play, and even his father might not be ready to believe the kid isn’t The Kid anymore.

  63. Breadbaker on May 19th, 2010 5:30 pm

    If you want to protest the team, I don’t think continuing to purchase their product will result in your desired effect.

    It will stop management from arguing “look how much applause Griffey gets” without a rejoinder. Even better, they’re likely to take his sign away, in which case it becomes national news and a huge embarrassment to the team.

  64. SpokaneMsFan on May 19th, 2010 5:33 pm

    Thanks Dave, I made a decision about a week ago that I’m not going to any more games (and I’ve made it to about half the home games so far) until they put a major league roster together. But really this is where it needs to start. Bravo sir on a well made point.

  65. Chris_From_Bothell on May 19th, 2010 5:35 pm

    The shots at Junior, and the front office, are cheap, easy and oddly timed given that Junior isn’t in the lineup tonight.

    They have the added benefit of being 100% true and completely justified. The 1995 fetishists have ruled the marketing arm of the club in general, and Chuck and Howie specifically, for way too long.

    But really… at this point, right now, I’m much more bemused and disgusted and borderline bored at Wak continuing to do stupid things with the lineup and bullpen, and the players overall making boneheaded mistakes night after night, than the presence of Junior in the lineup, or even what he represents.

    Wak doesn’t have much to work with, but he certainly doesn’t look like he’s trying, or look like he’s capable of doing some obvious things.

    Save the true fury for Wak.

  66. UW James on May 19th, 2010 5:35 pm

    JZ is a smart man, and I think there’s a lot going of dynamics going on that we will never know. We just suffer as fans…

    There’s probably more truth to this than most fans will ever realize.

  67. Leroy Stanton on May 19th, 2010 5:36 pm

    In retrospect, I agree that Griffey should have retired in 2009. However, the level of vitriol directed toward Griffey on this thread is disturbing and unnecessary.

    currcoug,

    Just want you to know you’re not alone. And I’m one who thought it was ridiculously obvious he was done last year.

  68. guschiggins on May 19th, 2010 5:38 pm

    Breaking News! Sean White sent to AAA to make room for Bradley! Bradley’s role going to be DH vs LH and LF vs RH! a Saunders-Sweeney LF/DH platoon! No more Griffey in the regular lineup!

  69. MBK on May 19th, 2010 5:39 pm

    Casual fans are a huge and important part of baseball, and always have been, whether we like it or not. Whether they’re cheering at every fly or abasing themselves for garlic fries or yacking on their cellphones, they have every right to be in the stands along with the rest of us… and they have every right to demand a winning team, too. Even if they can have a fun day out at the ballpark without one.

    You are absolutely right, but it is the casual fan that Z and the FO are pandering to by making bad baseball decisions. If the fans didn’t show up in droves for shiney new bobbleheads, maybe the FO would stick to baseball decisions rather than PR decisions.

  70. Leroy Stanton on May 19th, 2010 5:43 pm

    Breaking News! Sean White sent to AAA to make room for Bradley! Bradley’s role going to be DH vs LH and LF vs RH! a Saunders-Sweeney LF/DH platoon! No more Griffey in the regular lineup!

    Source? And I think you have it backwards. It should be LF vs LH and DH vs RH.

  71. Paul L on May 19th, 2010 5:49 pm

    First of all, I don’t agree with anyone who says that the FO is partly to blame makes someone a “Griffey apologist”, as the first commenter implied. They are two distinct issues, and you can definitely think that Griffey’s done AND the FO is partly to blame for not doing something, which is how I feel about this.

    The focus here has consistently been on Jr being the man and retiring on his own and giving the FO a pass (Go away, Jr? Doesn’t sound like you’re talking to the FO here). I don’t know why we’re supposed to give them a pass, or anything close to it. Jr’s not in the lineup today, and I don’t feel any better about winning this game than I did yesterday’s.

    Second, I wonder if the fact that Jr and Ichiro are good friends is making this even more difficult/complicated than it would normally be, because I’m sure Ichiro won’t be happy when Jr gets the heave-ho.

    Speaking of Ichiro, given the history of this FO I fully expect to be having this exact same conversation when his skills deteriorate and he becomes a hindrance to the team. Making tough calls is not this groups forte, and given that it’s been that way since before Z got here you have to think it goes all the way to the top.

  72. Leroy Stanton on May 19th, 2010 5:53 pm

    Speaking of Ichiro, given the history of this FO I fully expect to be having this exact same conversation when his skills deteriorate and he becomes a hindrance to the team.

    I don’t know, Japanese players (Sasaki, Johjima) seem to know exactly when to leave.

  73. Utis on May 19th, 2010 5:55 pm

    Frankly, as a fan of this blog, I could do with less of the Griffey anger. I come here for insight and realizing that Griffey is done and isn’t helping the team isn’t insight. There are 99 other reasons why the team isn’t clicking. It would be good to get some coverage on those. For example, I notice on the LL previews that Mariners almost always lose the bullpen match ups. Is that all on Wak and his crazy bullpen usage? Is there a way to measure Wak’s portion of blame?

    As a fan of baseball, I will continue to go to Mariner games. It is a joy to wath most of our starters these days. It can be fascinating to figure out how the Mariners will squander another close game. Only obnoxious Yankee fans expect their team to have a winning season every year.

    The team took several gambles and they mostly have failed. That happens. Overall, I am still confident the team is headed in the right direction. I am wondering what ramson Z will be able to extract for Lee if we fall out of contention. What could Mr. Z get form the Red Sox for instance? They must be getting desperate and they are not the only ones. I would not be surprised if Mr. Z is able to swing some trades that significantly improve this team.

  74. Jinbo on May 19th, 2010 5:55 pm

    If we want to speak of respect, what about Saunders?
    He bats well while Bradley was away; he got some tremendous defence skill in the field; and perhaps most importantly, he doesn’t have health issues.

    How about a little repect to the young with good performance?

  75. spankystout on May 19th, 2010 5:56 pm

    In retrospect the M’s could have used an extra
    year from Sasaki and Johjima.

  76. Section329 on May 19th, 2010 5:59 pm

    Source is ESPN.com mlb. Its a start. And I love not seeing Sean White coming in from the pen.

  77. Chris_From_Bothell on May 19th, 2010 6:00 pm

    Second, I wonder if the fact that Jr and Ichiro are good friends is making this even more difficult/complicated than it would normally be, because I’m sure Ichiro won’t be happy when Jr gets the heave-ho.

    Probably not. On the other hand, Ichiro did comment in a preseason interview about how he was always fascinated to see how fat players could continue to play. So maybe he knows when it’s time for some guys to go…

  78. Utis on May 19th, 2010 6:03 pm

    It is interesting that Dave puts up this post on the same day the Mariners announce they are implementing his six man bullpen idea that keeps both Sweeney and Griffey on the roster with Griffey as the 25th guy making an ocassional start. They really can’t do much better than that.

  79. KenPhelpsglasses on May 19th, 2010 6:04 pm

    DC, I heard you continue your tired Sweeney bashing on the radio today. He hit 3 home runs in 3 straight games and you still criticized him, something to the effect of ‘he could only last 3 games, what good is he?’

    Why go on the radio and make untrue statements?

    That is not a respectable way to make a point about a player.

    Sweeney said he could play Sunday. He was surprised when someone told him Wak’s reason was his back. He has even asked Wak to let him play.

    We know either Wak wanted to play Griffey, or he was being ordered to.

    Wak made it clear that Jr. was going to get a start in Tampa. Then Wak said in Oakland about the Toronto lefties are coming up so that’s why Jr’ started, and for Sweeney to get more rest for his back, even though Sweeney wanted to play.

    I’ve seen the posts here about how people are ticked off or ridicule Sweeney when he hit those home runs.

    When anyone hopes a Mariner player doesn’t perform well, how can they call themselves a M’s fan?

    Whoever the M’s DH is, I hope they perform at a high level.

  80. Paul L on May 19th, 2010 6:07 pm

    From here:

    Wakamatsu said he intends to play Bradley in left field against left-handed pitchers and at designated hitter against right-handers. That would further limit slumping, 40-year-old Ken Griffey Jr.’s playing time.

    And now, a theory and a kudo.

    Theory:
    Could it be that everyone realized Jr was done right when Bradley went on the DL, and they thought “OK, we’ll do it when he gets back”, only it took Bradley longer than they thought?

    Kudo:
    Assuming everything we’ve read is sincere, I think the organization has done a great job in dealing with the Bradley situation. It seems like they really care, and (so far) it sounds like Bradley really wants help. I know he has a history, but screw that; if he ends up righting the ship, good for him. And good on the Ms for helping him out in his time of need.

  81. spankystout on May 19th, 2010 6:09 pm

    KenPhelpsGlasses

    This is the second time this season Sweeney has sat out because of his back. Its
    an issue if someone needs one or
    two days off after three played.

  82. kenshabby on May 19th, 2010 6:11 pm

    Remember that scene from Pulp Fiction in which Ving Rhames is talking to Bruce Willis about pride? We need Ving to have that conversation with Junior:

    “The night you walk away from the game, you may feel a sting. That’s pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps. Swallow that shit and walk away.”

  83. IwearMsHats on May 19th, 2010 6:16 pm

    The most intriguing fact about shipping White to AAA is how the M’s used about 100,000 pitchers the previous night and should actually have an “exhausted” bullpen. They have Colome and RRS in the pen I guess but I have to think that RRS will be unavailable.

  84. KenPhelpsglasses on May 19th, 2010 6:17 pm

    Spanky, I understand Sweeney’s back flares up sometimes. My point is Sweeney said he could play and asked Wak to play.

  85. Gomez on May 19th, 2010 6:18 pm

    And Dave, you just summed up this organization’s biggest problem over the last 5-10 years. They work so hard to “pay respect” to the stars of 1995 and beyond that they pay no respect to the young, rising talent of today, talent which unlike the former can actually help this team win now.

  86. CWEST on May 19th, 2010 6:23 pm

    “Speaking of Ichiro, given the history of this FO I fully expect to be having this exact same conversation when his skills deteriorate and he becomes a hindrance to the team.”

    Ichiro strikes me as the type of player who will walk away as soon as his level of play doesn’t meet his personal standards, much like Edgar did.

    And even 2004 Edgar would probably be the 3rd best hitter on this team at this point.

  87. z24lax on May 19th, 2010 6:25 pm

    I agree with one part of this, Griffey should no longer be playing everyday. And that’s on Wak, who I think actually becomes a little worse as a manager every day. That being said, if this roster was constructed properly to begin with then having Griffey as the 25th man hug guy, who starts at DH once a week and hits 6th or 7th wouldn’t be an issue. If we had guys who could play more than 1 position on the bench, play everyday, or even play one position this scenario would be fine. I understand that Griffey is barely even a shell of his old self, but he is the only reason I ever became a Mariners fan in the first place, and if the organization flat out forced out one of the best players in the team’s history I’d lose a lot of respect for them, after they elected to sign him again. While Griff is hitting terrible right now, I dont think it’s right to make him the scapegoat for awful roster management on the part of our FO.

  88. Chris_From_Bothell on May 19th, 2010 6:26 pm

    Paul L: Agreed. At the very least they’ve kept Bradley from adding any off-the-field antics to the mix. If he comes back and the effect is that he’s a quiet, calm .200 hitter then… well, he’ll fit right in here… and if he comes back quiet, calm and actually providing some offense for the team, then Z and company pulled off a minor miracle in the middle of all these other boneheaded moves…

  89. Leroy Stanton on May 19th, 2010 6:26 pm

    And even 2004 Edgar would probably be the 3rd best hitter on this team at this point.

    2010 Edgar might be the 3rd best hitter on this team.

  90. overbored on May 19th, 2010 6:31 pm

    Long time reader, first time commenter. I moved to Seattle in fall of 2001, right at the end of Junior’s heyday here, so I have no strong personal feelings. If Griffey can’t help the team anymore, someone needs to tell him so.

    As for the rest of the team, if I’m looking at the roster right, bringing Bradley back and sending White down brings us back to an 11-man pitching staff and a five-man bench. I have to say I like this arrangement of chairs.

  91. R. Kelly on May 19th, 2010 6:36 pm

    I can’t believe how foolish you all are. The FO knows exactly what they are doing and you’re all falling into line. For all these years all they’ve had to hold onto was 1995 so they’re doing the most logical thing they can think of: They’re making another one.

    They’re digging themselves a hole, crushing the spirits of every Mariner fan. Then, when you least expect it, Z will give the word and everyone will be allowed to start hitting and Griffey will return to mid 90′s form. The stands will fill with Refuse to Lose signs and the seemingly insurmountable Ranger lead in the West will come crashing down in a one game playoff. Felix will come out of the bullpen on one days rest to close out game 5 of the ALDS and Griffey will once again score the winning run on a Edgar Martinez (who will come out of retirement sometime in mid-July) double.

  92. Paul L on May 19th, 2010 6:47 pm

    I hope Ichiro quits when it’s time, and I agree that Kenji did the right thing.

    Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I wouldn’t be surprised.

  93. refusetolose on May 19th, 2010 6:48 pm

    I can’t believe this. Yes, Jr. is hitting terrible right now, he is hitting poorly. Jeez, so is the rest of the team..

    Last I checked Jr. isn’t the reason Chone Figgins is hitting .192. Hes not why Jose Lopez is hitting .225 with 1 HR. He is also not the reason Adrian Beltre didn’t come back..

    He is not the guy who let Branyan go and brought in Kotchman hitting at .180. And he also isnt the reason Rob Johnson, the world’s worst hitter, and an awful defensive catcher to date.

    Jr. also is not responsible for the losing of 12 games in the opponent’s final at bat. TWELVE of 25 losses in the teams final at bat? Are you kidding me? Brandon League, who you revered Dave…hasn’t impressed me much.

    David Aardsma walks leadoff batters in innings. Mark Lowe is on the DL..

    Ken Griffey Jr. didn’t create all this. And you talk about respect Dave?? Why don’t you show some to the player who saved baseball in this city.

    And apparently you live in Baltimore, I wonder if you ever even lived in Seattle in the first place.

  94. Chris_From_Bothell on May 19th, 2010 6:52 pm

    And you talk about respect Dave?? Why don’t you show some to the player who saved baseball in this city.

    You mean Edgar?

    It’s the 1995 fetishists like you that this FO panders to. The overall effect of that is much more the root cause of this team’s problems for the last several years than Grief-y or any other single player.

  95. tomr on May 19th, 2010 6:52 pm

    Dave, I thought you said something along the lines of — this is the best run organization in baseball. So now Wak and Z are stupid hacks…

  96. refusetolose on May 19th, 2010 6:58 pm

    No Chris..The root cause of all the problems was Bill Bavasi..

    And you know, trading Carlos Guillen for Ramon Santiago..

    Shin Soo Choo for Ben Broussard..

    Asdrubal Cabrera..Rafael Soriano for HoRam..That’s where the problems really started. It wasn’t the 1995 “fetishists”

  97. Idaho M on May 19th, 2010 6:58 pm

    Wow, someone who rakes on someone on a blog asks the organization to grow some balls. I wonder if someone would make the same statements about Griffey directly to his face. Yes, Griffey is done. Everyone knows it except him. But taking cheap shots on a blog shows no class. Talk about not having balls.

  98. speedomike on May 19th, 2010 7:00 pm

    I really used to respect this site but it’s
    almost as if Griffey did something personal to Dave. yes, Griffey is a problem. Anyone who doesn’t see that is blinded by memories of the Kingdome. But how
    many posts are there going to be about him? We get the point.

  99. refusetolose on May 19th, 2010 7:01 pm

    Idaho M..Thank you.

  100. tomr on May 19th, 2010 7:04 pm

    We should blog about Dave and his other senseless stat heads. The problem with stats is that they get in the way of the game whenit is played between the lines. Which is something Dave and his followers know nothing of.

  101. Griffin Cooper on May 19th, 2010 7:04 pm

    Idaho M, how exactly do you propose Dave goes about making these statements “to his face”? Everyone has their medium, and this blog is his. He has a right to say whatever he wants here, and frankly he’s dead on.

  102. Carson on May 19th, 2010 7:08 pm

    Wow, someone who rakes on someone on a blog asks the organization to grow some balls. I wonder if someone would make the same statements about Griffey directly to his face. Yes, Griffey is done. Everyone knows it except him. But taking cheap shots on a blog shows no class. Talk about not having balls.

    Do you even know what a blog is? Welcome to the internet, bro.

  103. fargomsfan on May 19th, 2010 7:09 pm

    I’ll start by saying I have all the respect for Griffey in the world. He was an irreplaceable part of my childhood. I’ll be the first one to give the man a standing ovation when he retires. However, the goal is to win TODAY with the best players on the field. The jobs of Wak and Z are to win TODAY, not 2000, not 1995, but today. Yes, there are more issues than Griffey-but it would be a start if he retired. Shoot, there would be even more butts in seats on retirement, with the speeches, jersey retirement, bobbleheads, etc…

  104. Dave on May 19th, 2010 7:10 pm

    I would have more respect for the Griffey Supporters if they displayed an average IQ higher than 12.

  105. Idaho M on May 19th, 2010 7:11 pm

    Never said he didnt have the right to say whatever he wanted did I Griff. How about getting a media pass and getting right into the locker room and say this right to Griffeys face. Show some balls just like he is asking from the organization.

  106. Gomez on May 19th, 2010 7:12 pm

    Last I checked Jr. isn’t the reason Chone Figgins is hitting .192. Hes not why Jose Lopez is hitting .225 with 1 HR. He is also not the reason Adrian Beltre didn’t come back..

    He is not the guy who let Branyan go and brought in Kotchman hitting at .180. And he also isnt the reason Rob Johnson, the world’s worst hitter, and an awful defensive catcher to date.

    Jr. also is not responsible for the losing of 12 games in the opponent’s final at bat.

    Okay, we’ll stop there.

    Ken Griffey Jr is responsible for the 79 outs he has made in 101 plate appearances and the 81.5% of his at bats that failed to result in a base hit. KGJ is not responsible for many of the team’s shortcomings, but he is certainly responsible for his, while retaining a role where hitting for significant production is very important.

  107. Griffin Cooper on May 19th, 2010 7:13 pm

    Oh alright so accusing someone of taking cheap shots and having no balls doesn’t imply that you don’t think they have the right to do something. Gotchya.

  108. ms1977 on May 19th, 2010 7:14 pm

    This team is run like a Japanese bank, which means whoever is making the decisions is not Z or Wak. They are merely the facemen who we love to pile on. Maybe it’s Ichiro, who so loves the ‘Tickler.’ Maybe it’s Armstrong…I don’t know. Regardless, I would love to know what’s going on behind the curtain. Wish they had Jim Bouton on the roster or something.

  109. tomr on May 19th, 2010 7:14 pm

    Z put Jr on the team. Run Z out of Seattle let’s bring back Bavasi! Then we could all listen to Dave blackball the Mariners from Baltimore or wherever he lives some more.

  110. Chris_From_Bothell on May 19th, 2010 7:16 pm

    No Chris..The root cause of all the problems was Bill Bavasi..

    And who kept showing up during all those problem years? Who kept throwing money at this team in an endless parade of bobblehead nights and ’95 t-shirts? And what imagery does the organization always fall back on in its ads, its pre-game highlight reels?

    The fans don’t demand anything better than 3 ALCS appearances, so that’s what they get.

  111. juneau_fan on May 19th, 2010 7:19 pm

    Amazing to see so many new names! And they’re all ragging on Dave! I guess it takes having your childhood hero knocked to drive you all to post with such vitriol.

    I can’t believe this. Yes, Jr. is hitting terrible right now, he is hitting poorly. Jeez, so is the rest of the team..

    But see, I expect most of the other players to rebound. KG’s got nothing left. He’ll get a meatball right down the middle of the plate, put all his weight behind his stroke, and it barely makes the track. I don’t even see the point of putting him on the bench. He can’t even pitch hit. It’s not a Sweeney situation, with injuries keeping him off the field and keeping him out of the every day lineup. He has nothing left. He knows it, I see if on his face every time he’s heading back to the dugout. Why he doesn’t do anything about it, who knows.

    I just have no idea what role the KG defenders see for him. This line-up is too damn thin to carry a guy so you all can relive your childhoods every time he comes up to the plate.

  112. tomr on May 19th, 2010 7:25 pm

    …Ken Griffey Jr is responsible for the 79 outs he has made in 101 plate appearances and the 81.5% of his at bats that failed to result in a base hit.

    Jr has had 7 percent of the AB’s of the team. To bad he doesn’t recieve only 7 percent of the blame.

  113. dingla on May 19th, 2010 7:29 pm

    i love Griffey Jr., but one time in the Dome he gave me the finger.

  114. speedomike on May 19th, 2010 7:34 pm

    I’m not defending Griffey. I just think he’s become an easy target and a scapegoat for a lot
    of this team’s problems. Where are
    the posts on Figgins or Lopez? And Dave clearly can’t
    have a rational discussion about it which is exemplified by his last comment (you disagree with me so you’re stupid).

    And the “those other players will bounce back”
    argument does nothing for me. The Mariners are 11 games under .500 because (among other things) those players aren’t performing. Why are they getting a free pass?

  115. tomr on May 19th, 2010 7:36 pm

    ….i love Griffey Jr., but one time in the Dome he gave me the finger.

    Maybe he thought you were Dave?

  116. bubu on May 19th, 2010 7:39 pm

    Dave, Man, you’re cold. I agree that Griffey is not productive; however, is it his fault that the M’s decided to rely on him as a middle of the line up guy? Really, the M’s had no business going into the season relying on Griffey and Bradley to consistently drive in runs. Both these guys should have been role players who could get hot at some point and help the team. Counting on Griffey to be a run producer set him up for failure. Left handed pinch hitter should have been his role and that should have been explained to him when he was signed.

  117. refusetolose on May 19th, 2010 7:40 pm

    Ha sorry Dingla, that’s not cool. He must have given Dave the finger once too, because Dave has it out for him.

    To us with “an IQ of 12..” I at least think Junior should be on the team, I didn’t say he should be a starter or a 5th hitter every game. Youre bone to pick is with Wak then…

    And Chris again..You say the fans kept supporting the team even when they sucked? Oh jeez, would you like all of the Mariner supporters to only come around when they are good? Be fair-weather fans?

    Then you end up like the Pirates. And the Royals, pardon the fans for staying true even admist those awful times.

  118. terry on May 19th, 2010 7:59 pm

    Why is Figgins given a free pass? Because he’s clearly better than his numbers from a true talent standpoint. What is the point of banging on a good decision who happens to be slumping?

    There have been numerous posts dedicated to Lopez and why he’s less than ideal.

    Jr is useless (and his signing was clearly a bad idea) and he takes up a roster spot that could otherwise be used to address some of the other issues with the roster.

    Seriously, a team that wants to win badly simply doesn’t have Jr on its roster. That’s why Jr gets his own post.

    I challenge anyone to justify Jr being on the roster and to clearly articulate the ways in which he makes the team more competitive. Lets hear the arguments….

  119. terry on May 19th, 2010 8:04 pm

    I can’t believe this. Yes, Jr. is hitting terrible right now, he is hitting poorly. Jeez, so is the rest of the team..

    Last I checked Jr. isn’t the reason Chone Figgins is hitting .192. Hes not why Jose Lopez is hitting .225 with 1 HR. He is also not the reason Adrian Beltre didn’t come back..

    He is not the guy who let Branyan go and brought in Kotchman hitting at .180. And he also isnt the reason Rob Johnson, the world’s worst hitter, and an awful defensive catcher to date.

    Jr. also is not responsible for the losing of 12 games in the opponent’s final at bat. TWELVE of 25 losses in the teams final at bat? Are you kidding me? Brandon League, who you revered Dave…hasn’t impressed me much.

    David Aardsma walks leadoff batters in innings. Mark Lowe is on the DL..

    Ken Griffey Jr. didn’t create all this. And you talk about respect Dave?? Why don’t you show some to the player who saved baseball in this city.

    And apparently you live in Baltimore, I wonder if you ever even lived in Seattle in the first place.

    Not a syllable of this actually addresses the argument.

    Mental flatulence is actually more repugnant than the traditional bean-induced colon blabber.

  120. kenshabby on May 19th, 2010 8:26 pm

    Neither Dave–nor any of us–should have to say these things to Junior’s face. Coming from us it wouldn’t have the proper effect. That’s why Ving Rhames should do it. See my previous post.

  121. terry on May 19th, 2010 8:48 pm

    Never said he didnt have the right to say whatever he wanted did I Griff. How about getting a media pass and getting right into the locker room and say this right to Griffeys face. Show some balls just like he is asking from the organization.

    Ya it’s funny how balless guys on the internet demand others to stone up in their blog posts…

  122. money75 on May 19th, 2010 8:48 pm

    Thank you for writing this masterpiece of a blog.

    I went to the USS Mariner event at Benaroya hall. I never had so much faith in this organization as that day.

    All of that is gone now.

    Jack Z is dead to me. He has assembled one of the worst teams in the history of this franchise. They might as well just have flushed 90 million dollars down the toilet.

    I am embarassed to call myself a fan of this team, and will be boycotting attending games until the ownership shows that they are trying to win, and that they care about the fans.

  123. jolp44@gmail.com on May 19th, 2010 9:45 pm

    God you’re a fast talking arrogant twit Cameron. Hopefully Griffey will do the right thing which would be to become a bench coach or whatever, but your arrogant, pompous self-righteousness is worse than Griffey’s performance on the field this year.

    This post will be ‘moderated’ since USSMariner tolerates no opinions contrary to the company line, but to read so many whiny posts from your sycophants is truly nauseating. As late as last April, 2010 Z and Wakamatsu were heroes in your collective minds. Now they should be fired. Amazing.

    As mentioned above, I know this post will be moderated but I have to say this is one lame, front-running site/blog. Enjoy your collective misery, you deserve exactly what you’re getting.

    A Cynic

  124. dingla on May 19th, 2010 10:11 pm

    how many more promotional Jr. days are there at Safeco?

  125. dingla on May 19th, 2010 10:15 pm

    how many more promotional Jr. days are there at Safeco?

    i just counted at least 3:

    this saturday, Jr. retro t-shirt

    mid June, Jr. and Ichiro Cooperstown bobble head night

    first week of July, Jr. backwards cap night (what the heck is this? hats are handed out which can only be worn backwards? or are the fans supposed to bring their own and wear backwards?)

  126. dingla on May 19th, 2010 10:18 pm

    and any more Jr. promotional days beyond the All-star break…mmm…

  127. Dennisss on May 19th, 2010 10:22 pm

    I’m one who definitely feels that you should show Griffey some respect, more than you would, say, Eric Byrnes, because of all he has done.

    But the team respected him by signing him and playing him last year, when he was about replacement level. They respected him again by giving him another chance this year, even though replacement level was the best case for him. They respected him this year by giving him every chance, and chances beyond every reasonable chance, to prove that he could still play.

    The respect has been shown, the debt is paid. Whatever respect they owed him, they don’t owe him anymore. Griffey should be offered the chance to go peacefully, but for the good of the team, he has to go.

    A related note — Griffey got a big ovation tonight. Nice to see. I think a lot of fans know they won’t see him much longer.

  128. Matt the Dragon on May 19th, 2010 11:02 pm

    I would have more respect for the Griffey Supporters if they displayed an averagea cumulative IQ higher than 12.

    /fixed

  129. Steve T on May 19th, 2010 11:15 pm

    How about a bunch of people showing up with giant forks, like those wooden Tiki things, and waving them whenever Griffey bats? Might get on TV with those.

  130. Rck74 on May 19th, 2010 11:16 pm

    Guti is a nice player. Perhaps the best overall center fielder in the league? C’mon. Not even close. Quit the ass kissing.

  131. Boz on May 19th, 2010 11:23 pm

    I wonder what exactly is keeping Jr. from retiring. I was listening to the Jay Buhner interview on the local news and he was talking about how hard it was for him to retire. Griffey has been playing professional baseball for more than 20 years now. He has never seemed like the kind of person that would continue to hurt this team with his presence. I just wonder if he is having a hard time with the idea of what his life will be like not playing baseball. This is obviously something that every athlete that has played as long as Griffey has to confront eventually. Just a thought.

  132. Dave on May 19th, 2010 11:27 pm

    Name a better one.

    I’ll give you a hint – the center fielder that leads MLB in WAR since the start of the 2008 season… Franklin Gutierrez. Maybe, just maybe, I know what I’m talking about.

  133. PackBob on May 20th, 2010 1:03 am

    Absolutely, 110%, right on the mark.

    I really dislike having the pie of Griffey’s legacy twisted around in my face.

  134. clandon on May 20th, 2010 6:55 am

    Now that the M’s season is effectively on cruise control, one of the few remaining elements of high drama is whether or not Griffey might be able to break out of his slump before the FO finally acquiesces on their position. How ironic is it that this April roster mistake is now May’s most interesting storyline?

  135. downwarddog on May 20th, 2010 7:48 am

    Great idea. Quit going to the games. That’ll show ‘em. Maybe they’ll cut payroll another 6 or 8 million in 2011 and you can keep bleating about coulda shoulda woulda. Typical Seattle “fans”: Jump on the bandwagon when they win. Jump off when they lose.

  136. Idaho M on May 20th, 2010 11:42 am

    On this point I am in complete agreement with the blog host. I wouldnt trade Guti for any other centerfielder in baseball.

  137. ima-zeliever on May 20th, 2010 12:39 pm

    I am becoming a fan of the Yankees.

    No, I would still root for the M’s over the Yankees, but I am a fan of the Yankee philosophy: WIN. No player(s) are more important than that simple goal.

    The Mariners on the other hand make it “complicated.” As a fan, I am tired of it. I think the problem is Chuck Armstrong. It is understandable for fans to have idolized players and have unreasonable emotional attachments to them. For the front office to act in this way is ridiculous. If this is true, the M’s will never win a World Series as long as Armstrong is the President or he learns that his job and everyone’s job in the organization is to win baseball games. How about instead of a call for Junior to go away, we deal with the real problem and that is that the M’s philosophy is wacked.

  138. Holmes on May 20th, 2010 3:55 pm

    Dave – this is the stupidest thing you have ever written. Really though, fantastic job of singling out Jr and bashing him for 7 paragraphs. That’s a great way of showing ‘respect’ to the man who made all of us on here Seattle Mariners fans.

    Really Dave, why crucify Griffey when our entire roster has been absolutely putrid? Griffey doesn’t even play everyday yet you rip him like it’s your job and you have nothing else to write about.

    You can’t single out anyone else on the roster who is batting piss poor while playing everyday? Figgins? Lopez? Kotchman? SS? Moore/Johnson? Our roster isn’t getting it done. For you to bash Griffey and no one else makes no sense. How about the bullpen? How many times have we given games away this season. 10+. Yet all you can do is continue to trash Jr.

    Say the Mariners didn’t have Jr on the roster this season… How many more games would this team have won at this point in the season?

    This roster just doesn’t play well together Dave. Why don’t you start ripping Jack Z and criticize the bejesus out of him because he pretty much has blown the window of opportunity for this season, according to you and your USSM mates.

    You should be embarrassed for posting your 7 paragraph Griffey Jr ‘respect’ bash. Ass.

  139. Liam on May 20th, 2010 5:16 pm

    If you think that Dave hasn’t criticized anyone else this year for their poor performance, then you clearly haven’t been paying attention.

    Matt Tuiasosopo, Sean White and Mike Sweeney would be joining Ken Griffey Jr. in being removed from the roster if Dave had his way. Rob Johnson has been routinely ridiculed for his inability to catch the baseball (and hit).

    Some of the other unproductive players get more of a break because they play a defensive position everyday. Jose Lopez in particular has been phenomenal with the glove thus far, both with the eye and UZR. For a player whose only role on the team is to hit and they’re limiting his at-bats to RHP to give him the best chance to succeed, a lot is going to be expected.

    This roster just doesn’t play well together Dave. Why don’t you start ripping Jack Z and criticize the bejesus out of him because he pretty much has blown the window of opportunity for this season, according to you and your USSM mates.

    See this recent post.

  140. Liam on May 20th, 2010 5:53 pm

    To add one more thing, while some members of the lineup have not produced thus far there is good reason to believe that they will by years end. The same can’t be said about Griffey. He wasn’t projected to be any good this year and has managed to be even worse than the most negative of projections. At 40 years old with bad knees platooning in a premium offensive position, it should be obvious to anyone why he needs to go.

  141. jkcmason on May 20th, 2010 6:45 pm
  142. Dave on May 21st, 2010 9:26 am

    Alan Cockrell was a scapegoat. You can’t apply that word to a person who is unquestionably the biggest problem on the team.

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