Deal With Rangers Done
Dave · July 9, 2010 at 1:58 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Per Joel Sherman, as always. Ken Rosenthal confirms.
i have learned deal done with #Rangers, Smoak and 3 others for Lee and reliever Mark Lowe
I love Justin Smoak, and prefer him to Jesus Montero, so I’m prepared to dance with joy.
Celebration time. The M’s now have a first baseman of the present and future.
This day keeps getting better!!!!
Smoak ‘em if you got ‘em boys.
Amazing. Great job Mariners.
I want to know who the other prospects are!
Unbelievably awesome on several levels. Thank you, M’s.
With Michael Pineda coming up sometime in the next year, losing Cliff Lee and gaining Smoak is great. Mariners can survive without Lee.
Why Lowe though? He’s out for the rest of the year so I guess they like him a lot? Lowe must be a fan since he’s from Texas.
And Jack Z if this is true, you are the master and I am sorry for ever even slightly doubting you this year.
Handstands!!! Cartwheels!! And a statue of Z chipped and polished by morning!!
Done yet?
Any idea who will start tonight?
This is a HAUL!!!!!
Smoak!!!!!!!!!!
My guess would be Olson. :X
I AM NOT getting the addition of Mark Lowe in the deal. I could’ve seen Aardsma, easily enough- he’s HEALTHY and could conceivably help a ‘pen out for the rest of the year (though tough to believe if you saw the game last night).
Mark Lowe’s coming off of BACK surgery…there’s no guarantee he’ll ever be a serviceable major-leaguer again.
I don’t get it, but I’ll continue being happy!
Brock Huard thinks Mark Lowe should be a dealbreaker.
This is to far fetched to believe /boggle.. I will not even begin to fathom this, tell he is wearing an M’ jersey..
let the fire sale and rebuilding begin!.
Yeah the Lowe thing sounds really suspicious.
I guess if the deal was close and the Rangers said, “Oh, yeah…we’ll take Lowe, too,” Z would certainly go along with it.
Smoak’s Wikipedia page says he plays for the Mariners.
LOLHuard.
HUZZAH!!!!! *Tobias Funke style*
I want to know who the three others are.
Love the Smoak.
Glad not to be doing business with the Yanks. I’d rather trade in-division.
Hopefully Salk slapped him when he said that. I was sorry to hear he is going too, but as has been noted, he isn’t exactly healthy and helping the team, and is a question mark going forward.
Smoaking in Seattle!!! Woo hoo!!! I was very down because after hearing last night we were getting Smoak from mutual friend I awoke to news of Yankees landing Lee. Not only did I take a ton of ^#%! from people but Smoak is MLB ready, gold glover, and preferred to Montero. I suspect Salty or Ramirez and Holland in as well.
Great job Jack!!!
Why would be take Smoak if we already have Branyan?
(I had a hard time typing that with a straight face)
Hmmm, what kind of prospects will we get for eating Lee’s contract? Come on Z put them over the barrel and run it home…. We need a backstop too.
HOLY SMOAKS (sorry for the bad pun)! The inclusion of Lowe is strange, but WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
I imagine the Yankees are absolutely livid with GMZ after Washburn last year and now Lee. Oh well, we got Smoak!!!!
He’s batting .209; he’ll fit right in
And once again Bradley is without a position. I suppose he may play against lefties a bit at DH and LF but all in all he’s going to lose even more at bats now. Hope his psyche can handle that…
Wait, I don’t care. SMOAK!!!
Ok, now sherman’s tweet is gone…is all this premature?
From Google search on Smoak:
The actual Wiki page still lists him with the Rangers, but I thought this was an amusing comment on Wikipedia.
What unbelievable good fortune. We concede a division we already lost this year, and get a bigger return than we had any right to expect just 2 weeks ago. Thanks Yankees for driving up the price, and thanks GMZ for being awesome.
I like it. Jamey Newberg reporting that he’s heard M’s were asking about Alexi Ogando, Tanner Scheppers, Martin Perez and Salty, among others. I’m going to assume that was in lieu of Smoak rather than in addition to Smoak (except for Salty and Ogando, maybe), because asking for Smoak AND Scheppers/Perez is a bit much.
They probably included Lowe because he is on the outs in the clubhouse. I’m sure they would have liked to have shipped him off with Putz way back when.
Just received 4 texts from pissed off friends of mine that are Yankee fans.
. I can go to work happy today.
I bet the Yankees will understand. There responce was like ours, “Your shitting me, you got Smoak from Texas?”…
Awesome!
Apparently, there will be a lot of dancing with joy, shitting of pants and running naked down the streets … good for us. Somethign to look forward to.
Jack: You showed us all a lot by pulling off the Smoak deal.
A LOT!
Please take a day or two off and start shedding some of the shit laying around the clubhouse.
Honestly, at this point I couldn’t care less if Jack Zduriencik was blind folded and threw darts to decide who the other three prospects are.
The Rangers system is STACKED and I would’ve done Lee + Lowe for Smoak straight up.
Branyan at DH, Smoak at first=some big time power!! woot! Forget Bradley, he’s obviously banged up and hasn’t really done much this year.
Hdizz, what do you mean? Could you elaborate on this?
(Cross hands)
Oh PLEASE PLEASE make part of the deal that Lee gets to pitch a complete game no-hitter against the Evil Empire tonight!!!!!! (I know it’s not gonna happen– but how funny would that be!?!?)
This day keeps getting better. The crappy year karma tarnish is polishing off Z’s crown rather nicely, don’t ya think?
Each offer has been leveraged into a better one. Thank you Cliff Lee… Your short time here has been so worth it, on so many levels.
Seriously, thanks Cliff.
Rangers press conference at 5PM Central.
Report is we’re getting Smoak, two pitchers, and a position player. No further details yet.
Everything I have ever heard in regards to Lowe is that he is a prick, and that isn’t coming from people who are upset they didn’t get his autograph.
Lone Star Dugout: RHP Blake Beavan, RHP Josh Lueke, and 2B Matt Lawson
Larry Stone is reporting the same:
“Reports have RHP Blake Beavan, RHP Josh Lueke, and 2B Matt Lawson as the three Ranger prospects, plus Smoak, who is the “
Larry Stone tweet:
Reports have RHP Blake Beavan, RHP Josh Lueke, and 2B Matt Lawson as the three Ranger prospects, plus Smoak, who is the real prize.
MsFan…
Don’t forget all the masturbation…
As in, all the people who said to themselves “F*** ME!” when they first heard this deal…
Initial reaction: Beavan is interesting (doesn’t walk batters but doesn’t strike them out neither) but the other two I’ve never even heard of.
So is this better than the Yankees deal or what?
I’ve come down from my cloud of hoping for Holland or Scheppers but my new cloud has nearly as excellent a view.
Bender,
According to Dave, yes. It sounded like he would have taken Smoak over Montero any day of the week.
I live near Frisco so I’ve seen Lueke pitch an inning of relief live and he throws incredibly hard. Also, his off-speed pitch looked decent as well.
Lawson didn’t make much of an impression on me.
I haven’t seen Beavan pitch so I have no comment on him.
Yeah!!!! Screw the Yanks! So glad he didn’t go to NY.
I’m surprised for this deal, especially since *certain people* said there was no way Texas would give us Smoak for Lee.
I know I’m probably missing something obvious, but isn’t it a bit odd that we’re not sending a first baseman back to them? Who’s going to play first for the Rangers now? I figured Branyan or Kotchman would be heading that way as part of this.
I’m just glad the Yankees have to wait at least until the offseason to get Cliff Lee.
The comments at LSB have an interesting bit on Beavan from behind BA’s pay wall:
http://www.lonestarball.com/2010/7/9/1561347/bas-midseason-top-25
(second comment down, at least at the moment)
The rest of the package, other than Smoak, seems less than ideal though.
Chris Davis, he’s been tearing the cover off the ball in AAA for the Rangers ever since they sent him down.
Lawson’s hitting .277 with 7 HR in the Texas League. Not overwhelming for that league. Righty hitter. Looks like a dirtbag (the good kind).
I think they have Chris Davis to call up and play 1B for them.
Interesting, Lueke was accused of rape but the charges were dropped. I think the prosecutors have a case against Jack Z. Look what he’s done to our system! Turned Aumont, Gilles, and whoever the hell the other guy was I’m too pumped to remember into Justin Fucking Smoak and three other solid prospects. Z: You’re a goddamn wizard. I was regretting getting the custom Zduriencik jersey for awhile there–not anymore.
Wow just looking at the three other guys they got and they are all pretty solid. Wow I am amazed here.
Lueke’s bio pic has rapist all over it. haha
Just to clarify — unlike awestby51 — I’ve not regretted getting my custom Z jersey for a moment…
Lueke=Lowe it seems. Both hard throwing relievers. Except one didn’t have back surgery a month ago.
Finally, a deal in which the M’s send a Lowe & don’t get at Slocumb in return!
Diehard wrote:
He looks like Kobe Bryant?
Well, with Junior gone and Sweeney living on the DL… it seems like the M’s have some good pieces to help juggle their remaining injury-prone players.
Well, okay, it doesn’t help at short I suppose, but – having Branyan at DH means his back should hold up better (I hope), and they can always put Bradley in there occasionally or even run him out to left sometimes (which I don’t really favor, but given the money he’s being paid I expect we’re going to see him when he can play). Or let Branyan spell Smoak at first once or twice a week, and let Bradley DH those games once he’s healthy (if that ever happens again).
Sad! The Kotchman era is coming to an end. Hey Jr. Need a caddy?
Smoakin’!
Actually, Dave said (if I recall correctly) a 5% chance. Not “no way”.
That’s a good one man, I respect it. I went with “95″ for my number, as in he’s bringing 95 back. I thought it was going to be this year, so it’s been a little disappointing.
Smoak is a nice get but my gut likes the Yankees prospect package more.
Haha no more like the facial hair he’s rocking.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=518961
If Jack Z used the Yankees as a stalking horse to make this trade happened, and burned them, it’s all the sweeter.
It would be beautiful if Lee helped Texas knock the Yanks out of the playoffs.
I’m not really there with ya,
Smoak > Montero
Beavan = McAllister
Lueke & Lawson = Adams
That’s about how I’d value it….and given that Smoak is the key piece, I definately go with the Rangers package of players.
I guess it’s official, Press Conf at 3:15p.m.
Wow what a haul for 3 months of Lee!
Jay referred to it as “most likely a pipe dream”. Anyway, hopefully everyone realizes my comment was meant to be just good natured teasing – because (like everyone else) I am really stoked about this.
But man, I am going to miss seeing Cliff Lee pitch. I expect, at his age, this will probably end up being a “career year” in what is a stellar career overall – but I’m happy I got to watch him in an M’s uniform for a few months!
If the Mariners are sending money to the Rangers in this deal, and they weren’t going to send any money to the Yankees, then I’m not sure it’s any better than the Yankees deal.
What uni will Lee wear to the All-Star game? Although he is now a Ranger, he was a Mariner when selected. Has this ever happened before?
I feel that Mark Lowe is better than the difference between Smoak and Montero.
Smoak defensively is absolutely better than Montero. But Montero is 3 years younger and seems to have a bigger upside offensively. Plus Smoak hasn’t hit well in the bigs this season.
@SeattleDan
yes, jeff shaw when traded from the reds to the dodgers over the weekend before the ASG. his first appearance in his new uniform was in the ASG
Pretty sure it will be a Rangers uniform. He no longer plays for the Seattle Mariners and he was selected based upon HIS performance not his team’s.
The M’s website, under the roster section, shows 3 of the 4 prospects on the roster 40 man, except for Smoak
Lueke’s numbers give the impression of a potentially dominant relief pitcher.
One. Happy with either deal.
Two. On the surface, the Yankees deal looks a bit better. But not substantially so (Adams didn’t impress me as a sure lock for the majors). Beavan actually may surprise, as being a younger player, having relearned his delivery, he might have an uptick in velocity and be a slightly better Fister (or better). Not sure that McAllister was that much better than him.
Smoak may not be hitting well right now in his first taste of the bigs, though his very low BABIP says its obviously not going to continue that way, but Monteros hasn’t exactly been destroying AAA either.
I’d take Smoak 7 days a week and twice on Sunday over Montero. Especially, given the design of our park. Now if Montero turns into the next Cabrera, then I may regret it, but Smoak is considerably better than Montero, IMO.
Lowe isn’t anything special, and coming off back surgery will be a huge question mark going forward. Relievers like Lowe grow on trees. A right handed reliever with a K rate in the 7-8 range and an xFIP of 4+.
Guess I’m probably the only one around here who would’ve preferred to see Lee in Pinstripes rather than in Texas… (And it’s not just my born-in-the-Bronx roots showing… I’ve been an M’s fan for the 30 years I’ve lived here, but revert to being a back-up Yankee fan each season when the M’s finally fall out of the running, which as we know this year let me start rooting for the Yankees early – except for when they play the M’s…) Anyhow, my point is, it seems to me you just don’t trade someone like Lee within your own division (and especially when it’s only a 4 team division) unless you really have no other viable option. I guess Z is betting on Lee signing elsewhere (other than Texas) for next season – but sending him there now sure seems to give Texas the advantage. Again, maybe Z is counting on Texas’ financial woes to prevent them from signing Lee long-term.
@dgarnett
I wonder what would have happened if Lee had been the only Mariner on the All-Star Team. Each team needs to be represented, but Lee would suddenly be a Ranger. Would they have to bump someone? Would they add an extra player to the AL roster?
I want to see this happen next season just to find out.
any word on who starts tonight?
Well I return to find out we got Smoak!!!!!! Amazing much better deal than with the Yanks. Even though I was a proponent of Montero. But this made me do a little off-beat jig in my house
Hahaha.
Video 1:
http://post.ly/mWUP
Video2:
http://post.ly/mYKY
Unrelated, but funny video 3:
http://post.ly/mPng
I think we talked about this before, and it has happened in the past, but if he’s officially traded before the All-Star game — as all reports indicate — he’ll be wearing a Texas uniform.
You do when Lee is only going to be around 3 months to hurt you, and Smoak is going to be aroung 5-6 years to hurt the Rangers.
And who cares if Lee wins a couple against us this year? Like it is going to make in difference in the whole scheme of things…
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Rangers win the Series. As long as Smoak develops and helps us beat them for the division next year. Sort of a win/win, don’t you think?
Nothing on the live feed. Wonder if Zduriencik is still on the phone making another deal?
I’m one of those people, but I doubt you’re talking about me.
Pauley going tonight. ugh this is gonna be a rough one without Lee’s pwnage tonight.
Well, assuming Dave is right, to me, the comparison between the deals looks a little different than laid out above:
Smoak > Montero
Beavan > McAllister
Lawson 0
Plus, we’re giving up Lowe, which doesn’t bother me, and $2.5 million, which I’m assuming would otherwise have gone in ownership’s collective pocket, so that doesn’t bother me either.
At this point, I don’t know enough to know whether I’m happier with Smoak than Montero, because I hadn’t really paid much attention to the scouting reports on Smoak; viscerally, I think I’d rather we’d taken the Yanks’ offer, but that’s partly because I really liked what I read on Adams. I’m probably overvaluing him, especially as he would have been a guy with no clear role for Seattle, but I liked the idea of having him in the organization.
It will be interesting to see how Z’s choice looks five years from now.
The press conference is on right now. Jack Zduriencik was reading off a paper of all the names and forgot Mark Lowe for a few seconds.
I’m prepared to eat a little crow for saying the Mariners wouldn’t get Smoak; it still makes almost no sense to me from the Rangers perspective, but whatever.
This is a worse package than the Yankees deal, in my mind. I like Montero’s upside much better than Smoak’s, and we need to be looking at upside right now.
Yes, Smoak is a better fit for the park and better defensively, but Montero would’ve been able to convert to first base just fine in all likelihood and been average-ish there. Montero’s bat with league average defense at first is more valuable than Smoak’s with above average defense.
I agree with Jeff Nye. I thought we could’ve gotten Nunez instead of Adams and still done the Yankees deal.
Still, I’m glad we have Smoak. But, man, our bullpen sucks.
So who’s scheduled to pitch tonight then?
I would’ve liked to see Montero as well. Hope Smoak works out alright for us. Lowe was going to be pretty important for our bullpen next year so I’m dissapointed we had to give him up.
The more I think about the Rangers package the more I like it. Here’s a breakdown on who the M’s got.
The Future Forty has gotten a lot healthier in the past couple months.
I’m confused.
The Mariners are committed to winning in the future, so we are trading the best pitcher in baseball (that we didn’t even TALK TO for an extension) for Justin Smoak and a bag of baseballs.
But we are committed to selling tickets NOW so we are keeping Ichiro for $18 mil. a year when he’ll probably leave after 2012 for a team that has a better chance to get a ring.
Just shoot me.
You people can think I’m an idiot all you want and think I’m shortsided or whatever, because getting insulted on a blog is so heartbreaking.
But I’m SO tired of watching Nintendo run this team the way they do.
Ichiro can get you 200 hits a year, but he will NEVER win you a ring alone. NEVER.
And if nothing else, he’s going to break your heart in 2 years just like LeBron James did and leave.
The Mariners upper, upper management, whether you believe it or not, blew it by not keeping Lee for the next 5 years.
Or at least even making an attempt for re-signing him.
How about a post where the two packages are compared… Just a thought.
I prefer Smoak. Just feels more certain to me. I know people like Montero, but it just seems like I’ve seen quite a few of these big guys turn into not much, or guys about whom the biggest thing you can say is “for his age.”
As in, “I know Montero’s not hitting at AAA, but it’s really advanced for his age.”
Okay, you’re a shortsighted idiot.
Lee is going to want a huge long-term deal that would hamstring the Mariners ability to make any other deals.
Would I love to have seen him here forever and retire as a Mariner? Absolutely, but it wouldn’t have made any sense.
They most likely did try to re-sign him but just as in the winter, his agent probably reiterated that Lee was going to test free agency.
This looks like a nice fit to me. Perhaps this can be a catalyst to eat Bradley’s contract, play Branyan at DH and move on once and for all from the Silva debacle.
I think you have to factor in the long-term dynamics of trading within a division. Lee is almost certainly a rental for Texas, in a year their success has little-to-no impact on the Mariners. So really, we weakened a divisional opponent long-term, made us significantly better long-term, and had little impact either way short-term. I am absolutely fine with taking a discount in a scenario like this… and I’m not even sure that we did.
I probably agree that Montero has more offensive potential than Smoak. However, from everything I’ve read, there is almost no chance Montero is a catcher. If you have to convert him to 1B, you are gambling that he learns the position and isn’t a butcher out there. If he can’t do it and you make him a DH, he gives back most of the offensive upgrade over Smoak.
Ok I totally forgot what we gave up for Lee during the offseason, but even if I know, I won’t able to compare the value between these prospects. So are we getting better prospects than we gave up for Lee in the offseason?
No, he doesn’t. A bad defensive first baseman only hurts you so much.
A run saved is a run saved, but first basemen don’t get as many defensive opportunities.
We’re absolutely getting more back than we gave up for Lee.
Smoak should solidify the first base mess for years to come, and Beavan is basically Doug Fister.
It’s still a very good deal for the Mariners.
Absolutely awesome…great work, Mr. Z!!!
I this the Justin Smoak who is batting .209 with 8 HR’s? He sounds like a typical Mariner. Seriously, what is so great about this guy? (I do remember beating up on the Mariners on previous outings.)
Not to agree about the extension thing with Lee because I am like giddy, but, did anyone else read the post that Lee said he approached the Mariners about an extension and he was told that “they weren’t gonna go down that road”, it was something like that. But, I was a little surprised the Mariners weren’t at the least curious about what it would take. I mean unless they asked and Lee said 8 years and 160 mil.
Tomorrow’s NY Post headline: “Yanks Deal for Lee Goes Up in Smoak”
I am tired of those who still think we could have signed Lee. Please stop. Lee would command (on the cheap) 17.5 per year and possibly as high as 20+ per year. At 32 years old, he is probably looking at 6+ years. If those don’t see the logic in steering clear of that kind of contract, there is no help for you, since we need a + upgrade at probably 5-6 positions. Sure he said they approached the M’s in the Spring, but if the M’s are at 2-3 years, and they want 5-6, no sense on talking.
Jeff Nye,
What if Montero is a -5 run 1B or a DH (those are about equivalent if I remember my positional adjustments) and Smoak is +5. Does Montero really project to be 10 runs better than than Smoak with the bat?
I this the Justin Smoak who is batting .209 with 8 HR’s?
Yes.
Is this the Cliff Lee that went 5-8 with a 6.29 ERA in 2007? Yes.
damariners,
I never said anywhere in my post that I think we could have signed him. I am curious as to why we never heard anything about any interest from either side. Because if Lee wanted to stay, why not say something earlier? He did the same thing when he left Philly, although, it was a shocker after the Philly trade.
I’m just askin’. What makes a .209 hitter like Smoak so great for us.
It would have been nice to sign Lee, sure. But remember, he was out in March and April with that strain, and then there were some real questions about how good he’d be after the injury. The time to sign Lee would have been April, but then you’re committing $100M to a guy who may not pitch out 2010.
By the time the “sign Lee” window did open again, the M’s were out of contention.
Yeah, I’d love to re-sign Lee. I’d also love it if Chone Figgins hadn’t turned into a banjo hitter, but we can’t have everything.
And yet, the self-proclaimed “Go-To Guy” is still on with Calabro beating the old, dead “M’s gave up on the season by trading Cliff Lee” horse…
What a Moore-on!!
A lot more than a poster who doesn’t ask about how many at bats that particular has had.
Small Sample Size At the Beginning Of A Career.
Regarding comparisons of the Texas and Yankees packages:
I think the Texas one was nearly no-brainer better. I had high, high hopes of getting SS Jurickson Profar from them as part of the deal. But getting two more quality arms in the higher minors is nothing to sneeze at.
If I look at the details of those deals head-to-head:
Smoak = Montero. I’m tempted to say “Smoak > Montero”, but I can’t really deny Montero’s bigger offensive potential, a possible 4-WAR bat in the major leagues.
But Smoak should be no slouch and suits our ballpark a lot better. That counts for a lot to me. I’ll take his better defense and defined future slot on the team over Montero, who has a better than even chance of needing a new position.
But for argument’s sake, they’re equal.
Beavan > McAllister. They have about the same stuff, but Beavan’s control is better. I like a guy who just isn’t going to walk people. The Yankee system is loaded with guys who have okay-to-good stuff and borderline-to-lousy command. McAllister seems to be no exception.
Lueke, he’s an interesting chocolate in the Whitman’s box…arrested once and nearly wrecked his career, throws VERY hard. Outrageous strikeout numbers (38.1 IP, 62 SO) this year.
Lawson < Adams. Lawson seems like pure baseball rat to me, seems to do everything okay and nothing exceptional. Adams has the edge in track record, and overall. He’s hit everywhere he’s played.
Bottom line, IMHO? Today was a win for the Mariners just in getting a premium offensive talent like Smoak and the Texas package was significantly better for us to take.
We’re a much improved org. And on the major league level, we could be very good and very young very soon.
You know who’s thrilled?
Casey Kotchman
This Fangraphs post does a decent job of explaining.
Let’s all admit. Both packages were really, really good. Happy either way. But this is why I think it’s a better trade with the Rangers…
I think Smoak is equal to Montero is hitting ability, but the edge to Smoak as a fit with us due to his defense, being a switch hitter, and not having to wait 1-2 years until he’s ready.
But the BIGGEST reason why I like this trade over the Yankees trade, is b/c there is NO WAY Cliff will re-sign with them. Look at all we got for a 3-month rental. Great haul for us, but Way too much to give up for a rental. So it’s really hurting our division rivals long-term potential, who is really going through financial difficulties (so they can’t build through Free Agency).
Great trade!
God yes – the most worthless sports pundit in Seattle – possibly the world. It’s a telling point that his dog stories suck, but they are also his best material.
Maybe, just maybe, Smoak doesn’t project to be a career .209 hitter.
Great deal for the Mariners.
This is something that really only us, the fans, think about. GM’s really don’t care that much about inter-division trades. They’re just trying to make their own team as good as possible. In fact, I just heard JP Riccardi on ESPN radio a couple weeks ago saying as much.
I Love this!. I’m seriously looking forward to the future of this team over the next few years.
This is something to build around! (Ichi, Guti, Chone, SMOAK!…). Rock On!
Well, he’s already hitting better than one of guys the M’s have had at first base this year (Carp), at least as well as another (Kotchman — who didn’t manage to get over the Mendoza line ’til just the other day), and is younger than both of them — meaning: 1) he has way more upside, 2) you can bring him along gradually, if need be, as long as Branyan’s still around, and 3) Z now has the luxury of moving either Kotch, Carp, or both for other pieces he needs (i.e. like, a catcher who can actually catch, for instance).
I guess I don’t get the swooning that is going on here. I would love to be thrilled, and maybe I should be. But it seems that I have heard it all before. It sounds like spring training talk to me. Hope. He’s young and he is finding his way. Will he find it? Remains to be seen. I sure hope so.
Though as much as I can’t stand Moore, he’s still marginally better than Colin Cowturd…
Gawd, could you imagine those two together? Yecch!!
Zduriencik mentioned today talking with Lee’s agent before the season to see what neighborhood the Lee camp was planning to be in– apparently a very, very nice neighborhood.
What makes a .209 hitter like Smoak so great for us.
What made a .239 hitter like Chase Utley so great for the Phils? Because that’s what he hit his first season with them.
Well, assuming Lee continues to pitch as well as he has so far this season – I expect he’s going to have no trouble moving into that neighborhood.
I guess I don’t get the logic where someone looks at the first 235 AB’s of a players young MLB career and asks why people are excited about said player, without taking the time to do some research on the player themselves?
My question to you would be, “Are you really basing your viewpoint of Justin Smoak on the .209 BA he’s generated over the first 235 AB’s of his MLB career? Really?
I guess I don’t get the swooning that is going on here.
Because given the history of M’s trades for prospects, this is pretty close to can’t miss (by “pretty close” I mean “Once had lunch at the diner that overlooks it”). And compared to the poor trades of the past (remember Jeremy Reed and his .400 September callup?) this looks to be a pretty good haul for the value.
Time will tell if this is Guillen/Garcia/Halama for Johnson, but on paper it’s as good as it gets, and honestly it’s better than what the Phils got for Lee.
What a beautiful day!!!!
Let’s trade Lopez for a bowl of chips now!
Mesquite, potato…or buffalo?!
We’d better get some salsa with those chips or it’s NO DEAL!
OTOH, I’m randomly flipping through players on Baseball Reference and I’m having trouble trying to find an All-Star who hit .209 after 70 games of his first full season in the bigs. Most everyone is hitting .250 or higher by then.
What makes a .230 hitter like Adam Jones someone we mind giving up?
(Combined ’06 and ’07 states in Seattle)
I’d take Adrian Gonzalez despite his rather meager beginning to his MLB career.
Now that’s more like it. This kid may just be incredible. I just don’t see it.
Actually, I am not evaluating him per se. I am evaluating the enthusiasm in this thread. Actually, I am actually hoping somebody will get me more enthusiastic.
Are you out of your minds? I’d give someone a big bowl of salsa and chips just to take him off our hands. I’d throw in some guacamole, too.
Smoak’s BABIP this season is only .239 – so that .209 is probably not representative. For comparison Old Man Sweeney’s BABIP this year is .250 (Griffey’s was .220), and league average is .298.
We get the chips or they get the chips. It doesn’t matter either way. Send him somewhere else!
Really? In 3 minor league seasons he’s had 226 k’s to 61 bb’s in ~394 innings. Not a huge strikeout guy, but not nothing either.
Don’t know where else to post this comment, so here goes: What did I see on last night’s telecast??? I have re-played the Tivo a number of times frame-by-frame. I saw Ichiro Suzuki caress (fondle!) a young girl’s leg intentionally, then watched the Mariner’s send her a bag full of goodies a half-hour later for what purpose? To keep her or her father from suing the team for sexual assault?
I am a high school teacher. If I had done what Ichiro did, I would lose my job and be arrested! Seriously. This is the most surrealistic thing I have ever seen during a ball game!
Being a Tiger fan during my youth, I was taking Lance Parrish as an educated guess. He wound up having a pretty decent major league career and was a multiple-time All-Star…but was rip-and-grip miserable in his first full season (.219/.254/.424/.678 overall in 85 games in 1978).
Our next step is to trade Aardsma and League for a flex-fuel pitching machine.
Pravda is reporting that Luke French has been recalled. I assume he’s starting tonight against the Yankees, because there ain’t nobody else around who can.
Here’s the start for a young player you might have heard of:
Year 1: 13 G. 34 AB, BA .206, OB .325, SLG .294, OPS .619
Year 2: 132 G, 443 AB, BA .196, OB .324, SLG .373, OPS .697
A bust, right? Wrong. Those are the lines for Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt, whom some consider the best to ever play his position.
And that’s a hell of a lot bigger sample size than Smoak’s is.
Dustin Pedroia started slow in his first 52 games, posting a .184/.273/.272/.545 over his first 166 PA. He went on an 18 game tear after May 1, 2007 and by his 70th game (amazingly), he had already improved to .251/.330/.374/.705.
Remarkably, he went on to win the Rookie of the Year after posting a .172/.294/.224/.518 line in his first 25 games in 2007.
For those that want to play small sample size bingo with Smoak’s 2010 ML stats and dismiss him, why not focus on his most recent performance? In June he had an .832 OPS.
Or better yet, check out his minor league numbers.
Other recent slow rookie starters:
Chris Young, Alex Gordon, Troy Tulowitzki, Stephen Drew
Ivan – you are my hero. Love the scrappy Mike Schmidt Stat Slapdown. BOOM!!! “Smoakshow” is the answer to our 1st base prayers. Massive upside for the organization, nice move Jack!
BTW – if you think we could have signed Lee? Stop trying to sell “crazy” around here – we’re still stocked up from the Bavasi era.
I can tell you want to be excited. i want you to be excited. Justin Smoak is awesome! Hopefully this will help.
Smoak was the #11 pick of the 2008 draft. Last year in AA he hit .328/.449/.481 with a .427 wOBA in 227 PA. He has received favorable comparisons to Mark Teixeira, Chipper Jones and John Olerud. Coming into the season John Sickels had him ranked as the #2 prospect in the Rangers organization (which is loaded) behind only Neftali Feliz. He also ranked him the #10 hitting prospect in baseball at the end of last season.
You cannot judge a player on 275 MLB PAs at the age of 23. You can judge him on his numbers in the minors (which have been quite good) and his scouting reports (which have been almost universally positive.) He is as close to a sure bet at being a quality regular in MLB as you will find at his age and experience level. Justin Smoak is awesome and you will love him in due time.
Good enough. I’m excited. It’s official.
I like our young, left hand/switch hitting infield future:
1b Justin Smoak
2b Dustin Ackley
ss Nick Franklin (maybe early, but promising)
Talk about denial, enabling, and diva-obsession! Only Ichiro could get away with sexual harassment on live TV.
He definitely stroked that girl’s leg last night after chasing a foul ball in the stands. This is outrageous. I have frozen the re-play on the DVR and slo-mo’d it frame by frame. This was an intentional act of sexual harassment. If the guy sitting next to her had done that, he would be up on charges.
Bad enough that Ichiro’s arm has become erratic and ineffective and his routes to the ball remain parhetic. Now he gets protected even though he clearly and intentionally committed a perverse act.
Why else would the M’s send an autographed ball and a jersey to the girl in the stands two innings later?
She gets prizes after Ichiro touches her. Crude, corrupt, and criminal.
Good.
I was gonna say that
A) THIS year is his second full year of pro ball.
B) And his HR total right now would lead the Mariners.
I think there’s a small chance he’ll get better.
I saw something entirely different when I watched. I think it’s just you. Seriously.
To say nothing of the fact that the supposed transgression would be the girl’s (and her parents) call to make, and not yours.
Don’t try to kill our buzz with an imaginary hornet’s nest.
Wow, Nellie, you’re insane.
Yeah Nellie he touched her leg after chasing a
flyball. She didn’t seem to think he molested her. This kind of hyper-sensitivity is fucking annoying, to put it kindly.
Settle down there Nellie, you’re acting like rape occurred in the middle of a game.
Seriously though, that was just odd. It did look like he stroked her leg.
If that had been my girlfriend, I don’t know if I’d be pissed, or be pleased that my girlfriend is up to the standards of Ichiro haha
Tom Tuttle-
How the hell does ANYONE know if the Mariners didn’t really talk to Lee about an extension. That’s speculation.
Nellie- you’re a fucking idiot…the guy just made her day…she was estatic…take your ICHIRO! bias and go away…that girl was so happy, and you’re saying she was molested? Dude, stay off the meth…
As awesome as Lee has been, it’s entirely possible that Z was looking at him as a pure rent-a-player unless the deal was really, really good. This is still a team that has $20M tied up in essentially dead salary (sorry, MB, but you’ll never be worth that contract) and given the state of the economy the M’s might just not see themselves as being able to afford a guy like that for the long-term.
Anyway, overall the fact that we had Lee in the middle really shouldn’t take too much away from the fact that Z essentially traded away a relief pitcher prospect who looked really good in the WBC (Aumont), a couple of B-level prospects, and a reclamation project middle reliever (Lowe) for a very, very good 1B prospect and a couple more B-level prospects in return. In a sense, it’s Aumont for Smoak. How is that not an awesome deal?
Reed, Olivo, and Morse was a great haul for Freddy Garcia at the time Bavasi made the trade. That trade was quite possibly the best move he made in his tenure as Ms GM. The fact that it did not work out for any of the three players is unfortunate, but let’s not re-write history here.