Game 94, White Sox at Mariners

Dave · July 20, 2010 at 5:14 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Danks vs Fister, 7:10 pm.

We’ll see if Fister can stop getting hit around so much tonight. Most of the White Sox best hitters are right-handed, so he’s got a shot to get a bunch of groundball outs with his fastball.

As for John Danks, he’s not as good as his ERA would suggest, but he’s a lefty and this is Safeco, so don’t expect the M’s to jump on him. Not that you expect the M’s to jump on anyone.

Ichiro, RF
Figgins, 2B
Gutierrez, CF
Lopez, 3B
Bradley, LF
Kotchman, DH
Smoak, 1B
Bard, C
Jack Wilson, SS

Comments

73 Responses to “Game 94, White Sox at Mariners”

  1. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 5:18 pm

    I take it Saunders is still hurt? That splint I noticed during a dugout shot from last night’s game didn’t look promising…

  2. johnfree63 on July 20th, 2010 5:27 pm

    Who wants to bet Saunders goes on the DL when Sweeney is done with his rehab? Would that honestly surprise anyone at this point?

  3. KPS on July 20th, 2010 5:53 pm

    Kotchman’s DHing? Ugh.

  4. Carson on July 20th, 2010 6:04 pm

    So.. Kotch DH’s against a lefty with Milton playing the field? Do they want to kill any sliver of trade value either player has?

  5. Breadbaker on July 20th, 2010 6:18 pm

    Why not DH Josh Wilson?

  6. Dave on July 20th, 2010 6:18 pm

    Because he sucks?

  7. johnfree63 on July 20th, 2010 6:29 pm

    I think the better question is what did Langerhans do to Wak? Kick his dog? If they are going with lefty at DH, why not go with one that at least has a shot at getting on base?

  8. Breadbaker on July 20th, 2010 6:32 pm

    Because he sucks?

    More than Kotchman did against Matt Thornton last night? I think not. We don’t have a lot of options, but why promote certain failure?

  9. SonOfZavaras on July 20th, 2010 6:39 pm

    Just for grins, here’s what I wrote down for a prediction on tonight.

    So, survey time … in what inning will the Mariners score their 1 run tomorrow night? I am going with the 4th inning.

    3rd inning, Jack Wilson home run. Solo shot. 3-1 count. Inner-half fastball that catches too much of the plate.

    But I think Smoak hits a double and gets a rib, too. And Figgins (FIGGINS!) gets an RBI as well.

    And we’ll win 3-2.

  10. spankystout on July 20th, 2010 6:40 pm

    Ugh, ugh…double ugh….
    Still Wak insists on Lopez in the 4th. This is really starting to really piqué my concerns over Wak. Smoak behind Kotch, Lopez constantly batting 4th. If Wak keeps doing this the rest of the season I would support his firing. This is now gross mismanagement of his lineup. He isn’t even setting the team up for success. Bah Humbug………

  11. johnfree63 on July 20th, 2010 6:43 pm

    Breadbaker,

    You can’t use Josh Wilson at DH because he is the M’s ONLY backup infielder. If Jack Wilson went down in the first inning, which is ALWAYS a possibility with Jack, the team would be stuck with the pitcher DHing (not that would be a huge down grade)becuase Wilson would be the only one who could field the position.

  12. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 6:45 pm

    Still Wak insists on Lopez in the 4th

    Who do you suggest hits there instead? Nobody on the team is hitting. Wak doesn’t want to put too much pressure on Smoak just yet but I bet he moves up in the order by the end of the year. No need to put pressure on him in a year that is already over.

  13. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 6:47 pm

    Wak can only use what he has, which is a whole lot of nothing.

  14. Mid80sRighty on July 20th, 2010 6:50 pm

    As for John Danks, he’s not as good as his ERA would suggest, but he’s a lefty and this is Safeco, so don’t expect the M’s to jump on him.

    Oh, I’m sure we’ll have another appearance by Cy Young tonight.

  15. Breadbaker on July 20th, 2010 6:51 pm

    Good point, johnfree63, but it points out again how poorly constructed this bench is. The only right handed backup outfielder shouldn’t be in the field ever. Three guys are day to day. If Jack Wilson and Bradley collide like they almost did yesterday, there would be literally no one left on the bench. Yet we had two other injuries yesterday (Branyan and Johnson) and why should we assume we wouldn’t tonight, too?

  16. spankystout on July 20th, 2010 6:51 pm

    I understand Smoak shouldn’t be thrown into the fire. Certainly he shouldn’t be behind Kotch. Wak has experimented enough with Lopez as the cleanup hitter. How about Bradley-Guti-Smoak-Lopez-Kotch?

  17. Mid80sRighty on July 20th, 2010 6:56 pm

    How often are you all going to bitch about the lineup?? Seriously, every damn game the first 20 posts are bitching about the lineup. For one, lineup just AREN’T that fricken important and two, they’re even less important when the team is 36-57 on July 20.

  18. FelixFanChris420 on July 20th, 2010 6:57 pm

    Kotch DH’ing and hitting 6th in front of Smoak? That seems to be a solid plan. Thanks for saving me the effort of turning on the tv.

  19. spankystout on July 20th, 2010 7:01 pm

    mid80srighty

    Lineups are actually kind of important. Every spot further down is less ABs. And the 1, 2, and 4 spots in the lineup are the most important in maximizing runs.

  20. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 7:04 pm

    For one, lineup just AREN’T that fricken important and two, they’re even less important when the team is 36-57 on July 20.

    How is it not important. If they weren’t important then why don’t we hit Jack Wilson 3rd and have Lopez lead off. What are you talking about they’re not important? You want someone that can get your guys in when they get on base and actually Lopez is the one that makes the most contact as he is the least patient hitter in all of baseball which is why I’m assuming Wak has him hitting 4th along with the fact that he had 95 or so RBI last year.

    Next year I would like to see,
    Ichiro
    Figgins
    Smoak
    Branyan
    Guti
    Saunders
    Ackley
    Moore
    Wilson

    Though I hope they make some changes as that lineup doesn’t give me very much confidence.

  21. Breadbaker on July 20th, 2010 7:05 pm

    Not all that unlikely about a year from now, I think.

  22. FelixFanChris420 on July 20th, 2010 7:06 pm

    Wow Mid80′s, that may be the most unintelligent baseball related post Ive ever seen anywhere…and I posted on ESPN’s forums for 5 years…

  23. Mid80sRighty on July 20th, 2010 7:10 pm

    Spankystout

    Many numbers have been crunched on the subject and the best possible lineups MIGHT get you a win or two more. So, the M’s just might possibly be 37-56 if Wak would just read all these posts! Wow, I guess I stand corrected.

  24. NorthofWrigleyField on July 20th, 2010 7:10 pm

    The order might not be important… but there’s no way in hell you can tell me Casey Kotchman, Milton Bradley and for chrissake Jose Lopez should be in a position to get more at-bats than Justin Smoak. Good luck coming up with reasoning for that. Any manager who consistently makes this decision should lose his job, unless someone higher up wants to step forward and take the bullet for him.

  25. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 7:14 pm

    Smoak has had about 400 AB’s in pro ball including minors. Be patient people. Lets not mishandle him like all of our other prospects of the past.

  26. Hopmacker on July 20th, 2010 7:21 pm

    FelixFanChris420 on July 20th, 2010 7:06 pm

    Wow Mid80’s, that may be the most unintelligent baseball related post Ive ever seen anywhere…and I posted on ESPN’s forums for 5 years…

    You haven’t really been around much…..

  27. Mid80sRighty on July 20th, 2010 7:23 pm

    Tango has an entire chaper in The Book dedicated to roster construction. Lineup construction can add somewhere between .02-.10 runs per game. That’s somewhere around 3 wins per year if the lineups are bad as they can possibly be for every single game of the year. Can’t even begin to remember how many times Dave and others have talked about this very thing. I’ve seen some of your names around here for awhile now, shame on you for not knowing this by now.

    Seriously people, it just isn’t something to get that worked up over EVERY..SINGLE..GAME.

  28. FelixFanChris420 on July 20th, 2010 7:24 pm

    The irony is that you are wasting time to complain about people complaining…

  29. CCW on July 20th, 2010 7:25 pm

    I’m with Mid80s. Who friggin cares right now? Maybe Smoak is better than Lopie, but is the difference enough to matter in terms of games won and lost? No. And who cares about games won and lost in 2010 anyway? The important arguments right now are over what’s best for the long-term (i.e. 2011 and beyond) development of the franchise. Maybe it makes sense to let Smoak work his way up in the batting order. Maybe it makes sense to see if Lopie can collect some RBIs and perhaps increase his trade value.

    Dig a little deeper, people. The same tired complaints about Wak, lineups, and other things that are less than 1% of what’s wrong with this team smack of bitching for bitching’s sake.

  30. Hopmacker on July 20th, 2010 7:32 pm

    In the course of a game, the 4 spot will have AT MOST one more plate appearance that the 7 spot. Over the course of one season, the 4 spot will AT MOST have 162 more plate appearances than the 7 spot. I think there are many more easy ways to get production than line up construction.

  31. DMZ on July 20th, 2010 7:42 pm

    Please, explain easier ways a team can get more offense than by changing the order of the names they turn in on their daily lineup cards.

  32. Jordan on July 20th, 2010 7:43 pm

    Lopez’ trade value can’t be any lower than it is right now. By batting him 4th maybe he’ll get a few extra RBI and another GM will think he’s magically hitting better and having longer at bats.

    Maximizing run/win potential via lineup construction just isn’t that important right now, lets find a way to dump our large item spare parts and work toward 2012 and beyond.

    We all know that Bradley, Kotchman, Lopez, Johnson, Wilson, Wilson, Johnson, Figgins aren’t pulling any offensive weight right now (Wow, what a depressingly long list of underperformers), but lets do something to maximize any perceived trade value.

  33. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 7:45 pm

    I’d say hold off on complaining about the batting order until August 1st – there may be other considerations involved here.

  34. Hopmacker on July 20th, 2010 7:48 pm

    Perhaps “easy ways” was the wrong term to use. I was thinking in larger terms outside of the season, not in season items such as line ups. It is easier to change the line up; it just has very small value.

  35. lalo on July 20th, 2010 7:54 pm

    Actually I prefer to give a chance to Triunfel, Figgie should not be on this team, we have the best leadoff hitter in the MLB, we do not need another.

  36. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 8:07 pm

    Actually I prefer to give a chance to Triunfel, Figgie should not be on this team, we have the best leadoff hitter in the MLB, we do not need another.

    Ha, that’s funny. Triunfel is not ready, especially on defense. If Figgy was doing what he has done his whole career you would love him in the 2 spot.

  37. jeffcor13 on July 20th, 2010 8:09 pm

    Wow….lots of animosity tonight.
    How about Figgy getting into that inning ending double play…again. Does anyone know the numbers on how many double plays each player on our team has hit into, or has hit into out of possible chances (ie, with a guy on first or something)?

  38. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 8:13 pm

    It’s pretty bad. Some blame could go to coach for not putting game in motion.

  39. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 8:15 pm

    Dave Sims says Bedard is still feeling some irritation.

    Yeah, I know how he feels.

  40. Oolon on July 20th, 2010 8:24 pm

    Please, explain easier ways a team can get more offense than by changing the order of the names they turn in on their daily lineup cards.

    Since changing the batting order might add a single run every 10 or 15 games (according to Tom Tango – see Mid80sRighty’s comment above) I think the most obvious answer is to change the names in the order rather than worrying that much about what order those names are hitting.

    All this angst here every game about who hits 4th and who hits 7th is wasted energy.

  41. juneau_fan on July 20th, 2010 8:25 pm

    I love how the other team looks as bored as we feel. The games must be a chore for them, just trying to not make stupid mistakes that will cost them a game against such a weak team.

  42. Breadbaker on July 20th, 2010 8:34 pm

    Bottom of the sixth and I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment on the game yet. Mariners Baseball: Love It.

  43. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 8:38 pm

    Lopez really slowed down on that, wtf

  44. juneau_fan on July 20th, 2010 8:42 pm

    It’s been a long season when 1) I don’t notice the pitcher’s changed 2) I have no idea who he is and where he came from.

  45. littlesongs on July 20th, 2010 8:44 pm

    If you are a masochist, there is a heaping helping of Hawk over on WGN to endure. There’s nothing like a “he gone” and a “puddit on the board, eeeyeah” to permanently diminish your spirits.

    The game? Chris Seddon just changed a few numbers on his 2011 bubblegum card.

  46. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 8:46 pm

    Lopez really slowed down on that

    Seriously, what was with that? It sure looked like he’d have made it safely if he’d bothered to actually, you know, run.

  47. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 8:49 pm

    Is it just me, or (from behind, anyway) does Seddon’s delivery and build make him look like a better groomed version of Tim Lincecum?

  48. juneau_fan on July 20th, 2010 8:49 pm

    Seriously, what was with that? It sure looked like he’d have made it safely if he’d bothered to actually, you know, run.

    The Weeble wobbles, but it can’t fall down. He has those awful tiny strides to first base that DRIVE ME CRAZY. Run, you little fat man! Run!

  49. kenshabby on July 20th, 2010 8:52 pm

    Are the White Sox really pursuing Adam Dunn with such fervor that they’re willing to give up virtually anyone for 2+ months of his services? Not a wise move.

  50. kenshabby on July 20th, 2010 8:54 pm

    Chris Seddon: the latest M’s pitcher to suddenly appear back on MLB’s radar after years of no signal.

  51. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 8:57 pm

    WHAT???

    Okay, no matter how much we owe him – Bradley needs to go.

  52. okinawadave on July 20th, 2010 9:00 pm

    I only heard the audio for the Bradley mistake.. why won’t they show the replay? It was worthy of a couple minutes of commentary upon the opening of the next inning, but no replay?

  53. firova2 on July 20th, 2010 9:03 pm

    I think I’d take 40 something Omar Vizquel at this point. He can still play. I’ve missed him all these years.

  54. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 9:04 pm

    I realize Jay and Mike are right, everyone makes the occasional mistake – but Milton just makes too many mental errors in my opinion. If he were Manny Ramirez, that’d be one thing; but (in my opinion) he’s not providing much return. We have other options.

    Nice play by Guti BTW.

    okinawadave, I expect they didn’t show the replay because it was just a really stupid, bone-headed move by Bradley. Infield pop up, Bradley’s running to second base while the ball’s in the air.

  55. firova2 on July 20th, 2010 9:07 pm

    Of course Omar is not the answer to any question the Mariners are puzzling over right now, but he plays the game with a crisp intelligence and athletic grace that several members of the current Mariner squad seem to lack.

  56. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 9:08 pm

    Let’s talk about something interesting. Visquel in the HOF? I used to think no, but given the length of his career and the performance he’s maintained throughout… now I think yes.

  57. firova2 on July 20th, 2010 9:11 pm

    The Mariners traded Omar before his offensive skills really developed. And they had drafted a future HOF shortstop named Rodriguez. But Vizquel has had an excellent career. I’ll never forget him barehanding the final out of Chris Bosio’s no-hitter. Vizquel just played with such incredible confidence in the field. Still does, even if he now mostly plays third.

    But 2,800 is a lot of hits for a classic glove-first shortstop. Gotta think that all that really separates him from Ozzie Smith is a World Series ring. He may get that this year (though I doubt it).

  58. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 9:15 pm

    Anyone else here old enough that, when you see Bobby Jenks, you think “King Tut” from the old Batman TV show?

  59. lalo on July 20th, 2010 9:16 pm

    Chris Seddon could be a good arm in the bullpen for 2011… at least is better than Sean White, Jamey Wright, Snell, Olson and Cordero

  60. SODOMOJO360 on July 20th, 2010 9:21 pm

    That’s just sick defense Sox

  61. jordan on July 20th, 2010 9:22 pm

    Those are some NICE plays by the left side of their infield… wow.

  62. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 9:23 pm

    This Omar kid may end up having a decent career.

  63. jordan on July 20th, 2010 9:25 pm

    This Omar kid may end up having a decent career.

    Too early to tell, but he has the tools to do it.

  64. don52656 on July 20th, 2010 9:31 pm

    Omar in the HOF? Why not…he’s 51st all time in hits…I mean, there’s only 50 guys in major league history that have ever gotten more hits. That’s unbelievable. Plus, he’ll pass a few more before he’s done.

    Oh, yeah….13 gold gloves? If that’s not HOF, it’s pretty damn close.

  65. juneau_fan on July 20th, 2010 9:31 pm

    Wait, where’s our one run!?

  66. firova2 on July 20th, 2010 9:36 pm

    Can’t believe Omar is 43 and making those plays at this level. Coupla good rips at the plate too.

  67. kenshabby on July 20th, 2010 9:56 pm

    In 47% of the M’s games this season they’ve managed to score two or fewer runs.

  68. Westside guy on July 20th, 2010 10:00 pm

    In 47% of the M’s games this season they’ve managed to score two or fewer runs.

    It’s funny – if I went by feel, I’d have guessed a percentage much higher than 47%.

  69. Catherwood on July 20th, 2010 10:21 pm

    Man. It’s not just that they’re losing, it’s that they always seem to lose in the most boring way possible. I think I’d almost rather have the Sox hit a HR in the 9th to take the lead or something, ANYTHING, to make the game less snoozerific.

  70. spankystout on July 20th, 2010 10:48 pm

    mid80srighty

    Players with a higher wOBA than Lopez-.269:
    Smoak, Langerhans, Branyan, Sweeney, Ichiro, Guti, Saunders, Bard, Josh Wilson, Bradley, Figgins, and Kotchman. There are better options than Lopez. Does Tango account for a player
    performing below replacement level?

  71. bhdollman on July 20th, 2010 11:17 pm

    I hope to god that Bradley is not on this team next year. He has done nothing for this team all season. His strikeout numbers have to be off the charts and he is a headcase. Continously makes boneheaded mistakes like his baserunning error tonight. Its time for him to go, I dont care if they have to eat his salary.

  72. Mid80sRighty on July 21st, 2010 7:37 am

    Does Tango account for a player
    performing below replacement level?

    Yes, he does.

    In fact, Tango also recognizes the fact that a lot of these players have ego’s and feelings about where they hit in the lineup.

  73. dennyb on July 21st, 2010 8:30 am

    Boring Baseball I drive my church van once a month and a 96 year old guy I pick up tells me, “hey I see Griffey is in trouble for being asleep at a game. What’s the big deal? They have put me to sleep too more than a few times this year.”
    How right he is. Boring Baseball: Quitting players, lackluster managering and coaching and still the fans show up. Why? I’ll be there Friday night to see Boston, a real baseball team. I have no thoughts about a win for the M’s. How freaking sad after twenty five years as a season ticket holder.

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