The Big Splash Option

Dave · November 17, 2010 at 8:59 am · Filed Under Mariners 

A lot of people are hoping that the Mariners will make a big splash this winter, landing a big power hitter like Prince Fielder or Adam Dunn. That’s looked unlikely at best all along, and we’ve tried to caution that the Mariners off-season is likely to be a bit more low key than that. They don’t have a ton of money to spend, and most of the big name options don’t make sense for where the organization is and what it needs.

Until now. You’ve probably heard that Kevin Towers is now willing to listen to offers for Justin Upton, the Diamondbacks young outfielder, and rumors have swirled over possible landing spots over the last few days. Joel Sherman reported this morning that the “Diamondbacks have growing belief (they) will trade Upton based on ton of interest.” The more reports surface, the more it sounds like this is something Arizona may be planning on doing, rather than just kicking the tires to see what they could get for him.

If Jack Zduriencik wants to make a big move to improve the offense, Upton’s availability gives him that chance. He’s signed through 2015 for a total of $49.5 million, but only $4.25 million of that is due in 2011, so he’d fit into the team’s modest pool of available cash. He turned 23 in August, so acquiring him wouldn’t be a short term desperation move that would require sacrificing the future to improve the present. And, he fits a lot of what the Mariners need.

Yes, he’s a right-handed power hitter, but he’s the kind of right-handed power hitter that the team needs – a guy who drives the ball to all fields. Of his 60 career home runs, only 31 have been to left field. While a lot of right-handed thumpers are great when they pull the ball and lousy when they do anything else, Upton has a .511 wOBA when he hits the ball to left, a .439 wOBA when he hits it to center, and a .365 wOBA when he hits it to right field. Here’s Upton’s spray chart for his 2010 home runs, via Hit Tracker:

He wouldn’t love Safeco, but it wouldn’t kill him either. He’s the kind of slugger who could survive the park and still be a productive hitter in Seattle.

On FanGraphs yesterday, I estimated Upton’s future value, and as you can see, he’s a huge asset, as his contract will pay him just a fraction of what he’s actually going to be worth over the next five years. Given his age and abilities, the expected career path for him ranges anywhere from Ruben Sierra to Reggie Jackson – he’s almost certainly going to hit for power, and if he gets the rest of his game to develop, he could be one of the all-time greats. Even if he doesn’t, he should be a nice player.

Of course, acquiring him would not be cheap. The D’Backs will only deal him for a big offer, but the Mariners have the pieces to put together a big offer. If Jack is willing to build a package around some of the organization’s best pieces (and we’re talking guys like Michael Pineda, Dustin Ackley, or Justin Smoak here), the M’s could get Kevin Towers attention.

Should they? That’s a different question, and depends on the asking price. But, the opportunity is now in front of them. If they want to make a big move to acquire a franchise slugger, they have a shot.


145 Responses to “The Big Splash Option”

  1. Rayvensdad on November 17th, 2010 3:58 pm

    NF… why do we need to be open to moving Smoak?!?!?! A Power hitting switch hitter who plays 1st base well, and is said by scouts to be the next Mark Texeira, ESPECIALLY when he fully develops. We gave up Cliff Lee for this guy, and I honestly don’t think that Jack is going to just hand him back over to someone else, ESPECIALLY when one guy in LF isn’t going to bring this team to the playoffs, let alone the World Series. Smoak is our future, plain and simple, and because of such… he’s off limits!

  2. opiate82 on November 17th, 2010 4:07 pm

    Thanks for the perspective Asuray, it is insightful.

  3. greentunic on November 17th, 2010 4:25 pm


    Explain why Upton is greater-than-or-equal-to Felix please.

    Upton is a good (maybe great) hitter, with a .272/.352/.471 career line. But he is far from the best hitter in his league.

    Felix, however, is the top pitching performer in the league over the last two years (not much room for argument). And thats in the tougher league.

    I just don’t see that. But I am curious to know if I missed something or if there are metrics I am unaware of.

  4. Boy9988 on November 17th, 2010 4:47 pm

    /Triunfel/ – If they still need more to bit on.

    But Ackley/Smoak/Pineda/Franklin should all be untouchable. Its just too much of a step back for a kid that Ks 150 times a year, and whose power may come to die in this ballpark. Too much of a risk to give up our top prospects.

  5. spankystout on November 17th, 2010 5:10 pm

    Kevin Towers is quoted on as saying you never know when someone will “grossly overpay”. I think this says it all about Upton’s availability. Stephen Drew, or Mark Reynolds may be more likely to be traded than a 23 year old with a lopsided contract in favor of his team. That is unless your GM is willing to “grossly overpay” for Upton….Thank god Bavasi isn’t here.

  6. diderot on November 17th, 2010 5:16 pm

    Given Dave’s equivalency, would we trade Felix for Upton straight up? (Everyday value of position player over durability issues for pitchers).

  7. MrZDevotee on November 17th, 2010 5:24 pm

    I’d rather sit back and watch how much it takes from someone else to land him. It’s bad timing, I think, as far as casting off our own “A” prospects to get an upgrade (even a GREAT upgrade) at LF.

    I’d really REALLY love to watch Upton in an M’s uniform, but the cost would be too high, given the assumption that loads of teams are “in” on the talks.

    I think the max I’d be willing to offer is: Smoak, League, Aardsma… And I don’t think that would get it done.

    I’d say no to including TWO of the “big 3” (ie, Smoak, Ackley, Pineda).

    And again, it makes me sad to say that, but it just screams of “the old way the M’s did things” to offer up any more than that. An injury or a major slump, and suddenly the cost skyrockets into instant “bad trade” land.

    It’s definitely fun to think about though. If only…

  8. tres_arboles on November 17th, 2010 5:33 pm

    For the “no Smoak” and “no Ackley” people who want the M’s to legitimately pursue Upton; it’s going to take two of the Pineda/Ackley/Smoak plus something to get him.

    You seem pretty assured of this calibration. If you’re correct, color me disinterested. One big step up not worth the the probable two-plus steps back.

  9. jld on November 17th, 2010 5:45 pm

    Dave is referring to their value via WAR.

    The reason Upton can have more value is that he plays everyday vs Felix pitching every five.

    A great pitcher might be able to dominate a great batter, but he then has to sit down for four games.

  10. spankystout on November 17th, 2010 5:45 pm

    King Felix has accumulated 13 WAR in the last two seasons. Justin Upton has accumulated 7.7 WAR in his 3+ season career. Upton may project to one day equal Felix. But so far he hasn’t come close to being on par with Felix.

  11. xxtinynickxx on November 17th, 2010 6:15 pm

    Instead of looking at what the M’s would have to give up, think about what the M’s would be getting back. How many times did the M’s come close to winning a game when Felix pitched but did not because of the offense. How many times did Vargas or any other pitcher have the same chance, but the offense just was not there. The question should be would Upton help that more in the next 5 years then the Pineda, Smoak or Ackley or any combination. That should be the real question, but thats just my opinion.

    By the way no way Felix goes anywhere.

  12. maddux on November 17th, 2010 6:24 pm

    I would prefer we keep our prospects vs. trading for Upton. At this point we need to build volume within our system as not all prospects work out and Upton may not work out as well.

    We need to be patient this year, let Smoak, Ackley, Pineda, Saunders, Cortez, Lueke, Moore play, watch Nick Franklin’s development and hope we draft well with our number 2 pick this year and that guy can help in 2012. We are so many players away right now that I hate the idea of shrinking the pool of talent for one guy.

  13. asuray on November 17th, 2010 6:37 pm

    I think this thread is running out of steam. It seems like everyone is firmly entrenched in one of two camps; those who want to trade for Upton but are naive as to what it will take to get him and those who think it’s going to take mortgaging the farm and, thus, aren’t interested. Neither of those groups are conducive to maintaining a hypothetical trade thread.

  14. asuray on November 17th, 2010 6:41 pm

    Plus, Dave’s recent post over at FanGraphs pretty well renders moot most of the deals proposed here.

  15. Marinerman1979 on November 18th, 2010 12:40 am

    I would LISTEN to anything. Justin Upton is a great asset to get. We need that asset.

  16. Greeff on November 18th, 2010 12:53 am

    While Justin Upton is a great player i don’t think we should give up Ackley, Smoak or Pineda.

    if we could get Upton without giving up those 3 that would be great! and if anyone could do it it would be Jack Z!

  17. Duncan Idaho on November 18th, 2010 3:44 am

    The only way Arizona does it IMO is for Pineda, Ackley, Saunders and a bullpen arm. I take the deal and demand Kelly Johnson as a throw in. Here is the lineup;

    1. RF Ichiro
    2. 3B Figgins
    3. LF Upton
    4. DH Berkman/Branyan/Bradley/Matsui
    5. 1B Smoak
    6. CF Gutierrez
    7. 2B Johnson
    8. C Moore
    9. SS Wilson/Punto

    Then again maybe the deal becomes a super blockbuster and looks more like this. Figgins, Smoak, Pineda, 2 bullpen arms for Upton and Mark Reynolds. Lineup looks like this;

    1. RF Ichiro
    2. 2B Ackley
    3. LF Upton
    4. DH Berkman/Branyan/Bradley/Matsui
    5. 1B Reynolds
    6. CF Gutierrez
    7. 3B Lopez
    8. C Moore
    9. SS Wilson/Punto

    Saunders sees significant at bats off the bench with 70-80 starts spelling DH, Lopez and Guti.

    Or if there is a bump in payroll a lineup like this;

    1. RF Ichiro
    2. 2B Ackley
    3. LF Upton
    4. 1B Berkman
    5. 3B Reynolds
    6. DH Branyan/Bradley/Matsui
    7. CF Gutierrez
    8. C Moore
    9. SS Wilson/Punto

    Saunders sees less at bats but still gets 50-55 starts spelling Branyan, Berkman and Guti.

    Now I like option three the best and if the Mariners could find a viable number 2 starter that team contends for the division in 2011.

  18. Duncan Idaho on November 18th, 2010 3:56 am

    After reading through most of the other trade proposals I would say the two paths I suggest in the previous post are some of the only realistic proposals in this thread.

    First and foremost in a trade like this Pineda and one or two of Aardsma/League/Cortes/Lueke/Fields are gone. And realisticly it will take either Ackley or Smoak to finish off the deal. Now obviously Smoak is more valuable than Ackley because of his MOTO potential. But anyone thinking that this can get done for less is being unrealistic. By the way as Upton is proven and locked up the deals are worth it dependant on what else goes and comes back to strike a perfect balance.

  19. Badbadger on November 18th, 2010 7:31 am

    I guess I’m a raging optimist about Smoak, but I’m hoping that he becomes a better hitter than Upton. Upton is putting up a ~820 OPS, although of course he’s only 23 and may well get better. On the other hand he strikes out a LOT and Safeco will hurt him some.

  20. The Ancient Mariner on November 18th, 2010 7:54 am

    I think folks who are down on Upton (if you will) need to remember two things:

    1) Justin Upton is ~8 months younger than Justin Smoak, and already a better player.

    2) Justin Upton is ~20 months younger than Felix Hernandez, and in his last two seasons by WAR has been just about as good as Felix el Rey was in his age 21-22 seasons (though he’s older in-season, which does have some significance).

  21. Duncan Idaho on November 18th, 2010 9:04 am

    If we could add the parts to get Reynolds too I would include Smoak. If it is just Upton coming back I would rather send off Ackley and have Smoak and Upton anchoring the middle of the lineup for the next four years and hopefully more.

    Basicly of the 3 Mariner blue chippers I grade them;

    1. Smoak
    2. Ackley
    3. Pineda

  22. eponymous coward on November 18th, 2010 12:58 pm

    I think folks who are down on Upton

    I’m not down on Upton. The problem I see is this is a team that just got through losing 100 games, and the farm system isn’t overflowing with talent ready to show up in 2011- there’s some, but trading it away for Upton means you’re potentially looking at an infield of Carp, Figgins, Wilson (pick one) and Tui (assuming the package was Smoak and Ackley++). That’s maybe ONE guy who’s capable of being a league-average player (if you figure that Jack Wilson’s odds of a rebound + Chone Figgins’ = one decent player), and everyone else is replacement-level- and even throwing in a guy like Punto in the mix means it’s still a horrible infield (Punto is basically Jack Wilson’s upside if he bounces back in 2011).

    Towers is going to want young talent at multiple positions. The problem is we need young talent at multiple positions, possibly worse than we need Justin Upton.

    Also, I find the idea that an above-average 2B is a “throw-in” to a deal involving Justin Upton to be almost as amusing as the idea that the perfect match to Safeco is a RHB with a strikeout problem. Yeah, that should work out well.

  23. joethewest on November 18th, 2010 1:24 pm

    Dave, I really like your website and generally agree with you…but when people post stupid ideas like trading Dustin Ackley and Justin Smoak IN THE SAME FRICKING PACKAGE for Justin Upton, I just can’t go on any longer.

    Ackley is one of the best collegiate (if not THE best) hitter of the decade (no Bryce Harper doesn’t count. that was jr. college).

    Smoak is the best 1B prospect in all of baseball. Are you guys kidding me?

  24. everett on November 18th, 2010 1:39 pm

    Wow, I think some people seriously overrate the value of our prospects. All three are very nice prospects, and trading all three for Upton would be too much for me. However, there’s no way the Dbacks would trade Upton without getting at least one of them and then significant other pieces, or getting two of the three, with lesser pieces. Myself, I’d start any offer with Pineda and Saunders, and hope Kevin Towers is feeling generous/stupid enough to not ask for Smoak/Ackley if we give up other lesser options.

  25. Badbadger on November 18th, 2010 1:51 pm

    I’m curious what people think Smoak, Ackley, and Upton’s slash lines will be at age 27.

  26. eponymous coward on November 18th, 2010 2:28 pm

    I’m curious what people think Smoak, Ackley, and Upton’s slash lines will be at age 27.

    Slash lines are dependent on the park.

    I think Ackley is a peak 3+ WAR player (make a couple of All Star games, with some potential breakout past that). I think Smoak is a peak 2.5+ WAR player (might make an All-Star game, not as much potential to break out). If they can both be ~2 WAR players by 2012 (league average), this helps us out immensely (by having league average performance at minimal salary).

    Upton is no doubt the better player of the three unless Ackley blows up bigtime (which is at best a “maybe”), but the farm system doesn’t seem deep enough to make a move like this… yet.

  27. SonOfZavaras on November 18th, 2010 3:08 pm

    My first thought on it is it’s a terrible idea. Yeah, the guy is a tremendous physical talent. But he and his brother have both struck me as self-entitled brats. Potential’s wonderful to possess, but to me it’s just another word- and will Justin Upton live up to his?

    And you could have Willie Mays in his prime on the table- but we need way more than one premium player.

    The value of keeping pieces like Smoak, Pineda, Ackley, and Franklin is to me the better bet to take.

    But on the other hand, we are an org that is (frankly) now looking to find evident reasons for people to come to the ballpark.

    I’d guess I’d be okay if it happens, but the price tag is likely to make us just cringe.

  28. SonOfZavaras on November 18th, 2010 3:29 pm

    Hypothetical package for Justin Upton:

    To me, Ackley and Smoak should be off-limits. Because the org is obviously counting on them to be ready sooner rather than later. I also think you really don’t have viable replacements in-system for those two if they are dealt.

    Pineda is another story. As special as what he could be, a Gerrit Cole or Matthew Purke drafting could ease that pain a bit.

    I love the Condor, but he’d likely HAVE to go in the deal to make room for Upton. Unless the D’backs would take Gutierrez, but I don’t think that likely.

    Let’s say we really bite the bullet and include Nick Franklin. I love everything I’ve heard about him, but it might be a case of selling high on a prospect.

    Then, Josh Lueke. Because, let’s face it…this org is trying to hide their eyes and hope he goes away. I don’t see “HowChuck” having the fortitude to say “bring on the public relations hit”- never mind the guy’s paid his debt to society as society decreed he should.

    Pineda, Saunders, Franklin, Lueke. With Aardsma thrown in if a fifth piece is insisted on.

    Does that get it done?

    That likely gives you a lineup that looks like this:

    1B Smoak
    2B Ackley
    SS Ja. Wilson– subject to another trade happening or injury.
    3B Figgins
    C Moore
    LF Upton
    CF Gutierrez
    RF Ichiro
    DH Bradley (?)

    I’d gamble that lineup produces more than last year’s.

  29. Duncan Idaho on November 18th, 2010 6:01 pm

    Pineda and Ackley for Upton, yes.

    Pineda and Smoak for Upton and something else coming back, yes.

    Ackley and Smoak for Upton, no way. The only way that is even feasible is if Drew is coming back this way as well and now were talking about adding Pineda back in and even more pieces moving around.

    The simple fact is Pineda + Ackley = Upton.
    Pineda + Smoak is too much for Upton without getting something else decent like Kelly Johnson back as well.

  30. Duncan Idaho on November 18th, 2010 6:13 pm

    In addition I mentioned earlier that the Diamondbacks are seriously trying to move Reynolds for an infielder with OBP skills.

    Now to me that move would look something like Figgins, Smoak, Pineda, Lueke(or other bullpen arm + possibly a young starter like Beavan or Robles) for Upton and Reynolds.

    That leaves the Mariners with a Reynolds, Ackley, Wilson/Punto and Jose Lopez infield unless the Mariners were willing to bring in a 1B like Berkman/Laroche/Huff as well as a DH (Branyan/Matsui/Bradley). That could be a possibility if Lopez and Aardsma are dumped.

    Still I think the fanbase should be looking at Smoak as far more untouchable than Ackley or Pineda. Ackley is a rarity as a possible offensive force at second it is true but as Mariner fans have now painfully learned the young 1B who can BB 100 times and hit 30 bombs while making almost nothing has become a rare commodity in the post steroid era. There is a reason Jack held out for Smoak and he is the last of the 3 blue chippers I would want to see leave the Mariners. Just imagine what an Upton, Berkman, Smoak heart of the lineup could do with the Mariners prolific on base combination of Ichiro and Figgins.

  31. Duncan Idaho on November 18th, 2010 6:19 pm

    Eponymous, answering your earlier question I would look at Upton as a guy who would be at 140-145 wRC+ at 27, Smoak at 133-138 wRC+ at 27, and Ackley in a best case at around 123 wRC+ but more likely at around 117 wRC+. That is nice for Ackley at 2B but he may still end up as a COF for all we know.

  32. Badbadger on November 18th, 2010 8:41 pm

    I guess I’m just having a hard time seeing the M’s being the team that wins the bidding for Upton. We’re not really in a position to empty out our minors for a guy, and other teams who are closer to contending can afford to do that.

  33. the tourist on November 18th, 2010 9:06 pm

    After reading all of what’s been posted today, I think people are really underrating Ackley’s ceiling.

  34. eponymous coward on November 18th, 2010 10:05 pm

    Eponymous, answering your earlier question I would look at Upton as a guy who would be at 140-145 wRC+ at 27, Smoak at 133-138 wRC+ at 27, and Ackley in a best case at around 123 wRC+ but more likely at around 117 wRC+. That is nice for Ackley at 2B but he may still end up as a COF for all we know.

    Ugh. This is why I hate slash lines and offense-only contributions as the sole way to evaluate players (aside from park effects). We have to account for defense here, folks, and the fact that value exists in being able to play more challenging defensive positions, even if the 1B is the better hitter.

  35. joethewest on November 19th, 2010 1:16 am

    @ the tourist

    Perhaps if Straburg didn’t blow up to the size of the sun, Ackley would have gotten alot more hype and thus be much less underrated. I don’t frickin’ know.

    But hey just for fun, in 2009

    Jose Lopez – 25 HR 42 doubles 69 K’s
    Justin Upton- 26 HR 30 doubles 137 k’s

    So let’s just give up the farm for this guy. Then we can have 2 Jose Lopezes!!!

  36. Duncan Idaho on November 19th, 2010 10:05 am


    Jose Lopez
    age 20 3.7 BB% .270 wOBA 0.3 UZR = 0.0 WAR
    age 21 3.0 BB% .287 wOBA 1.6 UZR = 0.3 WAR
    age 22 4.0 BB% .314 wOBA 0.5 UZR = 1.7 WAR
    age 26 3.7 BB% .268 wOBA 8.1 UZR = 0.7 WAR last season

    Justin Upton
    age 20 12.9 BB% .347 wOBA -8.4 UZR = 0.5 WAR
    age 21 9.4 BB% .388 wOBA 7.7 UZR = 4.6 WAR
    age 22 11.2 BB% .349 wOBA 7.6 UZR = 3.1 WAR last season

    and eponymous, right now Ackley is a below average to poor defensive 2B and an unknown quantity as most likely a left fielder. I’d say it is reasonable to leave out defensive info on him since we don’t really know anything for certain other than the above mentioned. We do know that Smoak is probably an average defensive 1B though. So as it stands now there is negligable defensive difference between Ackley and Smoak so it is quite reasonable to judge them purely on offensive contributions. Especially since we can safely gues what kind of contributor Smoak will be with the bat while the jury is still out on Ackley with the stick as well.

    And eponymous I believe it was you who asked for speculation about offensive contribution in the first place.

  37. eponymous coward on November 19th, 2010 11:01 am

    “Badbadger on November 18th, 2010 1:51 pm

    I’m curious what people think Smoak, Ackley, and Upton’s slash lines will be at age 27.”

    So as it stands now there is negligable defensive difference between Ackley and Smoak so it is quite reasonable to judge them purely on offensive contributions.

    No, it is not. Aside from the handwaving you just performed on Ackley and Smoak’s defensive abilities, defensive position counts as part of the process of evaluating players. Otherwise, you get ridiculous results, like thinking Paul Sorrento was a better player than Ozzie Smith because he was clearly a better hitter.

    Also, we’re mostly using minor league stats to project BOTH Smoak and Ackley- because Smoak’s first MLB season wasn’t very good. So why are you discounting Ackley’s progress up to AAA in one pro season?

  38. Duncan Idaho on November 19th, 2010 11:07 am

    When it is all said and done if the Mariners can get Upton for one of Smoak/Pineda/Ackley they have to do it.

    If they can get Upton for Smoak/Franklin they have to do it.

    If they can get Upton for Pineda/Ackley they have to do it.

    If they can get Upton for Pineda/Franklin they have to do it.

    If they can get Upton for Ackley/Franklin they have to do it.

    If Arizona has to have Smoak/Pineda for Upton then the Mariners have to insist on adding names like Drew or Reynolds + or Johnson +++.

    And sorry eponymous, I see you were actually responding to someone who wanted to speculate on the future production of Upton/Smoak/Ackley. I apologize.

  39. Duncan Idaho on November 19th, 2010 11:30 am

    Eponymous I was talking about Ackley’s poor defense at 2B being pretty much equal to Smoak’s average defense at first. Of course Ackley will still have more intrinsic value because of positional adjustment but my contention was that value added strictly from defense (UZR) would be negligible between the two. And possibly Smoak would add more value if the scouting reports I’ve read on Ackley are to be believed.

    On the offensive side I don’t see how you can’t think that Smoak has the higher floor and ceiling as a hitter. Ackley may someday be the better player overall but that will be because of positional adustment, better than advertised defense, and better than advertised power. In terms of value added simply through wOBA I don’t see Ackley ever approaching Smoak’s production level. If he does I’ll be damn happy though because the Mariners would then have the AL version of Chase Utley.

    Of course then too there is always the possibility that Smoak becomes a bust. But the optimist in me says there is a less than 1% chance of that happening.

  40. jjracoon on November 19th, 2010 12:27 pm

    Just when I think I am getting all the WAR stuff, I read all these entries and am confused. When I look at the statistics for Upton the past three years I dont see how he equates as so high a WAR.
    His defense in 2008 & 2009 didnt seem that good with 12 errors each year and even last year he had 4. Is he getting his value from playing RF and there just werent that many good ones?? Granted his offense looks alright especially compared to what happened this season and he is young but how does add up to a probable future star?? Also, if he becomes the Mariners LF doesnt that lower his value since many high offense players are in LF????

  41. gwangung on November 19th, 2010 1:07 pm

    I just think some fans are getting hypnotized by “name players” in the belief they’re surer bets than prospects; I’m also seeing them neglect defensive contributions, which I’m also not sanguine about (meaning they’re not thinking about them meaningfully, either statistically or from a scout’s perspective).

  42. jordan on November 20th, 2010 5:40 pm

    If I were going for Upton, I would deal Pineda, Saunders, and Nick Franklin. I hate to part with Franklin, as well as Pineda but you gotta do what you gotta do.

  43. heychuck01 on November 20th, 2010 7:33 pm

    Perhaps the Mariners involvement in this “potential deal” is that of a third party. Maybe they are not looking to land Upton, but something else.

    It fits Jack’s M.O. to try and step in to any trade to see if he can trade something in surplus, for some other type of need.

  44. the tourist on November 20th, 2010 10:04 pm

    @heychuck01: I like this line of thinking. Trade a couple of live bullpen arms (Aardsma, Cleto?) and a minor piece from the farm (Halman? Mangini?) and somehow wriggle Drew away from them.

  45. GripS on November 21st, 2010 9:35 pm

    My problem is all of Ackley, Pineda and Smoak could potentially be the type of guy who a lot of teams would give up a lot for. Getting Justin Upton would just mean trying to contend sooner then you are ready to. If he flops it turns into another Erik Bedard trade.

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