Game 40, Mariners At Indians, Round 2

Dave · May 15, 2011 at 9:40 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Pineda vs Tomlin, 10:05 am (maybe).

If the rain holds out, then Michael Pineda will take the hill against a team that gave him some pretty big problems in spring training. The Indians can run a bunch of left-handed bats out there in a row, so today could be a good test for him – if they play.

Ichiro, RF
Figgins, 3B
Smoak, 1B
Cust, DH
Olivo, C
Peguero, LF
Ryan, SS
Saunders, CF
Wilson, 2B

Comments

48 Responses to “Game 40, Mariners At Indians, Round 2”

  1. Paul B on May 15th, 2011 9:59 am

    Start will be delayed. Tarp not off the field yet.

  2. MariLOLs on May 15th, 2011 10:15 am

    If this game ends up rained out as well, League will have a chance at 5 losses in 3 days the next time we play the Indians.

  3. Ibuprofen on May 15th, 2011 10:31 am

    First pitch in 20 minutes!

  4. Ibuprofen on May 15th, 2011 10:55 am

    Nevermind then!

  5. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 11:02 am

    Well now – at least it’s not snow.

  6. SonOfZavaras on May 15th, 2011 11:09 am

    Yesterday might have been a blessing in disguise- these guys probably needed a day off for the psyche, collectively.

    Today, I’m not so sure about any hidden benefits. You want this team to be able to get back on the bull and ride it.

  7. SonOfZavaras on May 15th, 2011 11:11 am

    Less than 4 weeks until the draft- and less than 4 weeks before one of Lindor, Cole, Rendon or Starling is ours.

    I know you never draft for need- but by the same token, I’m still hoping Rendon can answer some medical questions and discover the power stroke at the last minute.

    A healthy Rendon’s bat could make us look so much better.

  8. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 11:49 am

    A healthy Rendon’s bat could make us look so much better

    A healthy bat of any kind would be nice. We would like 3, please.

    Regarding the prospective draft picks: They all have a long way to go, but yes … it would be nice to get a position player with a good glove and a stick with some promise. Cole and his mid to upper 90′s fastball is probably closest, but he has been getting hit around pretty good this year. Starling sounds like the quintessential 5 star, can’t miss HS prospect, but there is the HS thing and I don’t think this org is going to want to have to wait that long. We are either going to get the best hitting prospect or the best pitching prospect, so that’s the good news. The bad news is, we will probably have a chance at the same again next year … which depending on “context” could also become good news.

  9. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 11:58 am

    However next year there’ll be 12 million free to spend on a productive player(s) – don’t forget about that.

  10. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 12:04 pm

    However next year there’ll be 12 million free to spend on a productive player(s) – don’t forget about that.

    Absolutely agree. And, I like to think of it as more like $22 million, but hey – it’s all Monopoly money to me! (My reasonsing being Bradley $12M, Silva $5.5M, no Jack Wilson $5M). I would hate to see them blow that wad on one fat DH/1B Free Agent type … but I see your point, Westy. They should have money to spend. Or, they will the opportunity to cost avoid and make up for this years low attendance figures. Hmm, I wonder what they (this organization with its thumb on the pulse of wanting to win all the time) might decide to do?

  11. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 12:25 pm

    You’re right, I forgot about that. Jack Wilson becomes Dustin Ackley – that’s 5 mil right there.

    I would hate to see them blow that wad on one fat DH/1B Free Agent type

    I know we haven’t seen this front office operate with lots o’ available cash yet… but somehow that doesn’t seem like Jack Z’s style.

  12. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 12:39 pm

    So, with the monopoly money that is not ours and with the decision that will never be ours, let’s call it a cool $17M being available for a free agent(s) through a combination of jettisoned veteran salaries and an internal company need to realize a cost avoidance to make ourselves feel better and to put a final stamp on the Bavasi era gone bad. Unfortunately, $17M is about what it is going to take to sign one, fat 1B/DH type. I am not saying we don’t need that type of projected production (we very much do), but it all depends on the salary cost and how much the pre-game/post-game meal costs might escalate.

    We aquired the Rangers’ best hitting prospect last year. Our top hitting prospect is getting closer every day. We might be able to draft a top hitting prospect again this year and God willing … we might be able to trade an aging left handed pitcher for some other teams decent + hitting prospect this year (big maybe). If one internal prospect proves they can handle LF or DH or C or 3B in the future, then we will be on our way.

  13. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 12:45 pm

    … and with a healthy (please God please) Guti coming back too

  14. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 12:54 pm

    Just a guess – but I would think it’s more likely they go after a left fielder with some pop (this is assuming Saunders doesn’t suddenly blossom, obviously). Smoak’s already at first, like you said; and there are just too many instances of the big lumbering DH types signing expensive, long contracts and then going sour after the first 2 years.

    I suppose third is an option too… IF we don’t end up drafting Rendon.

  15. SonOfZavaras on May 15th, 2011 1:11 pm

    I know we haven’t seen this front office operate with lots o’ available cash yet… but somehow that doesn’t seem like Jack Z’s style.

    I agree. I can’t help but think he’s more likely to get 2-3 decent players with 17 mil to play with, but no premium superstar bat types.

    Although, watch: now that I’ve said that, Zduriencik is gonna go full-on Jedi Council and lure Albert Pujols here.

    But a healthy Gutierrez, and continued development of the younger players? 2-3 DECENT players (i.e. not veterans on their last legs) could help us quite a bit in the “looks like a decent club” department.

  16. Ibuprofen on May 15th, 2011 1:17 pm

    Although, watch: now that I’ve said that, Zduriencik is gonna go full-on Jedi Council and lure Albert Pujols here.

    As great as Pujols is, I really don’t want him playing for the Mariners. I really really doubt he’d be nearly as good playing in Safeco half the year. Plus, we have Smoak already.

  17. SonOfZavaras on May 15th, 2011 1:22 pm

    As great as Pujols is, I really don’t want him playing for the Mariners. I really really doubt he’d be nearly as good playing in Safeco half the year. Plus, we have Smoak already.

    Unassailable logic, and I agree 100%. But the moves that are made are often ones that I just never saw coming.

    Because my name’s not Dave Cameron or Derek Zumsteg.

  18. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 1:22 pm

    I know your comment about Pujols was completely tongue in cheek, SOZ. I just wanted to say I’ll be amazed if he ends up signing with anyone other than the Cardinals. They’ve got to find a way to get that deal done.

  19. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 1:22 pm

    this is assuming Saunders doesn’t suddenly blossom, obviously).

    Agree.

    I think Saunders = Langerhans (or at least his career path is currently proceeding at light speed in that direction). And, they certainly don’t need 2 of them around. Saunders is still young and will continue to be given chances, but production matters and he has not yet found a way. He has actually gotten worse. He might become the fairly reliable/4th or 5th outfielder type or he could become the next generation of “why do they always get better when they leave” type of player. Fire up the link!

  20. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 1:29 pm

    I’m still rooting for Saunders to blossom. But everything I complained about in the past – him not being given a consistent chance to run out there, day after day; not being pinch-hit for whenever a lefty reliever is brought in, etc. – is no longer the case.

    Wedge is running him out there every day. Wedge even seems to be trying positive affirmation, focusing on his defense rather than his (lack of) bat when they talk about Condor. Saunders is being given the best shot possible, and every chance he could ask for… it’s totally up to him now.

  21. Chris_From_Bothell on May 15th, 2011 1:53 pm

    Westside – Do you give Condor more time in left, after Guti is back? Or is left exclusively for Peguero/BigWilson now, and Saunders goes to the bench or Tacoma?

  22. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 2:06 pm

    Thing is, we don’t know how healthy Guti’s going to be – so (and feel free to disagree) I can’t see them sending Saunders down because he’s the only other competent center fielder we have (excluding Ichiro; but I just don’t think they’ll ask him to play center again). Plus Wedge genuinely seems impressed with his defense.

    My guess is Peguero goes down, and we start to see more of a Condor/Wilson platoon – but I bet Saunder gets the majority of playing time. At least for the next couple months. If his bat shows no sign of improvement, though… all bets are off.

    But, as msfanmike likes to say… all my speculation, plus a buck, leaves you with exactly one dollar. :-D

    What do you think? Are there other options?

  23. Liam on May 15th, 2011 2:09 pm

    I’m not so sure we’re going to have all that money to spend in the offseason. It’s still early, but attendance is down 23% from last year.

  24. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 2:20 pm

    My guess is Peguero goes down, and we start to see more of a Condor/Wilson platoon – but I bet Saunder gets the majority of playing time. At least for the next couple months.

    I think you are probably right. I agree

    But, as msfanmike likes to say… all my speculation, plus a buck, leaves you with exactly one dollar

    I agree again :)

  25. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 2:47 pm

    What do you think? Are there other options?

    I am not sure that the options we have are actually options, so no … not a lot of options. The yard work was completed yesterday and the weather is for shit today, so rampant speculation time …

    Carp is not a LF – so he won’t get a shot there. He will probably produce well enough with the bat in AAA for a callup later this season – to do what exactly – I am not sure. He was part of the 12 player trade, so “Z” liked something about him at one point and may still see some sort of role/roll/roll-out-of-town for him. Tui/P’Tui – he’s out. They can’t run out of Options on him fast enough. Shafer, McOwen – not ready yet, but not all that far out of the mix for a shot down the road, especially if the other “options” fade quickly.

    There is a plethora of “not-muchness” other than uncertainty at the high levels of this team for the LF position, so an extended Saunders development process we shall likely see. Liam is probably correct though … there might not be a lot of our Monopoly surmised money available to spend in the offseason.

    Wilson appears to be slightly more polished than Peguero and I would like to see him stay while they attempt to powder coat some shininess into Peguero at the AAA level. Peguero does have the tool that the M’s most need (power), but he needs a lot of buffing. Ideally, someone from within can step up and produce in LF. I think that has probably been the case for the past 20 years, though.

  26. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 2:59 pm

    Barry Bonds has a son, right? How old is he? ;-)

  27. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 3:47 pm

    Barry Bonds has a son, right? How old is he?

    Nice! I think he is about 17 … approx the same age as Trey Griffey. I guess Trey is more inclined to not pursue the family business and is more of a football player, though. A couple knocks to the head from a College D1 linebacker should set help set him straight. I have no idea if he even plays baseball, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he was pretty good just by genetic osmosis. Maybe I shall google he and find out.

  28. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 3:55 pm

    Barry Bonds’ son Nikolai is 19 (a little older than Trey Griffey). He did make some headlines a couple months back. I attempted to attach the link, but it glanced off my glove and went into LF.

    Bottom line: Son Nikolai was booked on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon after an argument with his mother. Yep, his mother. A regular Swiss Family Robinson episode in the land of Bonds.

    Trey is a football prospect (receiver) and will graduate in 2012. No mention of any baseball related acumen.

  29. jephdood on May 15th, 2011 4:14 pm

    “The Fish” hit THREE dongs today for Tacoma. 10 now for the year.

  30. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 4:56 pm

    “The Fish” hit THREE dongs today for Tacoma. 10 now for the year.

    That’s cool … and since production matters, it will be interesting to see what the team does. They can overthink it and say “he’s just hot and he will cool down because we know he won’t sustain it” – or they can reward actual production. Very cool though. Good for him. If players truly “tell you” when they are ready (heard Jack say it many times), maybe he is ready for another shot. Maybe DavePaisley has at least least temporarily assumed the westguy reverse mojo crown. He probably didn’t even know there was such a thing. See yesterday’s non-game game thread.

  31. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 5:06 pm

    I will FIGHT to regain my rightful crown! Be warned, DavePaisley…

  32. Westside guy on May 15th, 2011 5:13 pm

    Okay, I don’t want to be a wet blanket but – where, exactly, do you Mike Carp fans expect him to come up and play? You can’t possibly think he should replace Smoak at first. Do you just want him brought up to DH, replacing Cust?

  33. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 5:22 pm

    Okay, I don’t want to be a wet blanket but – where, exactly, do you Mike Carp fans expect him to come up and play

    And therein lies/lays the problem, with Mr. Carp. He can only be a 1B or a DH … and both positions are currently taken … and one of those positions is going to be occupied for a long, long time. I am not calling for Carp’s promotion, but I did point out yesterday that he has been hot lately and jephood wondered whether he might be given a legitimate shot in the future.

    If I were you, I would be happy with no longer being the reverse mojo King. I think you might have been supplanted.

    I don’t want to get into a Jack Cust vs. Mike Carp thing, but if Jack Z is true to his word in that a “player will let you know when he is ready” … what is it that Mr. Carp might currently be saying? I have never seen him play LF and it surprises me that he can actually run down a fly ball on occasion. But, do I think he is a better hitter right now than Peguero … absolutely. Interestingly enough, Carp is also the same age as Saunders … minus the athletic ability, of course ,and we have seen a protracted opportunity for him … and Saunders is not a guy that Jack Z traded for. Mike Carp could be the second coming of Greg Luzinski in the outfield … for those old enough to remember. And no, that isn’t really a compliment.

  34. jephdood on May 15th, 2011 5:33 pm

    Do you just want him brought up to DH, replacing Cust?

    Okay. Yeah, sure. That. :)

    Incidentally, I’m not a huge Carp groupie. It’s just that I hate seeing a DH at the ML level hovering near the Mendoza line with a .291 slugging % and NO home runs who, incidentally, has been in a power decline the past three years now.. while his counterpart in AAA has been raking.

    That’s all. It’s entirely possible that Carp is NOT the answer at the DH position. But is Cust? Absolutely not.

  35. Ibuprofen on May 15th, 2011 5:51 pm

    For our DH woes I’m still stuck in the “trade for Vlad” camp <_< Although that's probably a terrible idea.

  36. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 6:04 pm

    Here’s a potential solution: Move Carp to 3B … and then everyone is happy :)

    Cust is/was a one year “solution” so there is still time for a DH to either evolve internally or to be acquired eventually. With this organization, anybody that can hit should be given a shot.

    Ditto Jephood – well stated.

  37. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 6:12 pm

    For our DH woes I’m still stuck in the “trade for Vlad” camp <_< Although that's probably a terrible idea.

    Only because of the cost ($5m vs. $1.5M) and the fact that the Mariners will finish last in their Division, regardless. This is a perfect year to see how many (if any) internal solutions exist for the myriad of problems that this team has – but I don’t think anybody could find fault with you in that Vlad is more productive as a DH … but yeah – you are right … it’s not a good point in time type of decision. They need to move salary and older players if they can find any takers, not acquire any of those types of players.

  38. msfanmike on May 15th, 2011 6:20 pm

    I will FIGHT to regain my rightful crown! Be warned, DavePaisley…

    The best I can do for you at this point, Westy … is to appoint you as a “Prince.” The nickname did not stick with Pineda, but perhaps it shall for you. I dub thee “The Prince of Reverse Mojo”

    Thank you for playing along :)

  39. Shanfan on May 15th, 2011 7:13 pm

    I imagine Cust will be our primary DH until at least June 15th when he’s eligible to be traded – if that free agency rule still holds. Same would be true for Vlad. Cust isn’t such a black hole, especially in this lineup, that we need to dump him before then.

  40. jordan on May 15th, 2011 7:30 pm

    Ackley with 4 hits today… at least some things are looking up. He is now hitting over .400 in his last 10 games.

    I am all for Peguero being our DH down the line. At least he can hit a HR.

  41. auldguy on May 15th, 2011 7:39 pm

    You’re right, I forgot about that. Jack Wilson becomes Dustin Ackley – that’s 5 mil right there.

    So Wilson is going to be playing left field? Ackley’s hitting may come around, but he doesn’t resemble even Lopez at second base. Eventually he will more than likely end up in the OF. Would still solve one problem, just not two.

  42. groundzero55 on May 15th, 2011 9:16 pm

    Ackley hitting as he has potential to, while being defensively as good as Lopez at 2B, wouldn’t be a bad thing. I’d take it any day.

    Defensively, Lopez was not as bad as he was made out to be. He’s no Jack Wilson, but then again, Jeter never really deserved many of his Gold Gloves either.

    Isn’t Ackley a converted CF? I’m not convinced the M’s would spend this much time and effort switching him to 2B, then at any point turn around and put him right back in the outfield. Maybe 3B down the line if he proves to be struggling too much at 2B.

  43. Nicbp253 on May 15th, 2011 9:38 pm

    The kid can play second base. Why must people act like this is the same old mariners? Jacky Z knows what hes doing. Carlos has played like six games! Lets let him play a couple more. Bring up Ackley and Carp..get rid of Jack Wilson and Cust or Kennedy

  44. Chris_From_Bothell on May 15th, 2011 10:00 pm

    My guess is Peguero goes down, and we start to see more of a Condor/Wilson platoon – but I bet Saunder gets the majority of playing time. At least for the next couple months. If his bat shows no sign of improvement, though… all bets are off.

    If Guti takes long enough to heal that they finally give up on Cust, perhaps DH becomes another place to rotate people through. 4 people rotating through LF, CF, DH and bench probably works to get a look at everyone, as long as the result is as much Guti in CF as possible without overworking him.

    But if they’re still committed to Cust at DH, and/or Peguero is still overwhelmed at the major league level, then yeah, I agree Peguero is probably odd man out.

    I admit I’ve been into the notion of giving Carp one more shot, by bringing him up to DH, but that’s more out of impatience with Cust than expecting Carp is more than a AAAA player… so given a choice if Cust leaves, I’d rather see the 4-person musical chairs above than Carp.

    If Carp keeps up his performance, is he worth anything in trade? Or is he not even worth the AA reliever he might get back, and only here if heaven forbid something happens to Smoak (in which case, season over anyway…)?

  45. KiWiNiNjA on May 15th, 2011 11:21 pm

    Cust in May
    .294/.442/.441

    But oh noes, he has no homers.

  46. SonOfZavaras on May 16th, 2011 12:14 am

    Don’t get rid of “The Senator” (Adam Kennedy) just yet…I think he’s a veteran with something left in the tank still- I definitely think he’s helped THIS team.

    Jack Wilson, on the other hand? He can go any time, I’ll shed no tears.

  47. Chris_From_Bothell on May 16th, 2011 6:50 am

    Kiwininja – And what is his stat line in May (a sample size of 2 weeks, but ok) w/ RISP? Can the DH actually H in the one area the Ms need the most improvement?

  48. KiWiNiNjA on May 16th, 2011 6:04 pm

    The point being Cust has actually improved of late yet we still have people talking as they did in April (a sample size of 4 weeks, but ok).

    Complain about Jack Cust as much as you like, but he isn’t the worst of our problems.

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