Game 71, Phillies At Mariners

Dave · June 18, 2011 at 6:24 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Hernandez vs Worley, 7:10 pm.

Happy Felix Day!

After a pretty awful night last night, Chone Figgins is back on the bench, and Adam Kennedy gets his first start at third base this year. That opens up the DH spot, which goes to Mike Carp. Carlos Peguero keeps rolling out there in left field despite the fact that he’s getting exposed by good pitchers again – hopefully the team doesn’t toss Jack Cust overboard before they realize that Peguero doesn’t belong in the big leagues, though that seems to be the likely path at this point.

Ichiro, RF
Ryan, SS
Kennedy, 3B
Smoak, 1B
Olivo, C
Peguero, LF
Ackley, 2B
Carp, DH
Halman, CF

Comments

200 Responses to “Game 71, Phillies At Mariners”

  1. griffin on June 18th, 2011 6:29 pm

    Just a normal day off to rest for Guti I assume/hope, though it’d be nice to have him in the lineup still to get himself going and up to speed like we’re used to.

    Go Mariners!

  2. ivan on June 18th, 2011 6:31 pm

    Look, Dave, the cold fact is that Cust is done. He can’t get around, he isn’t pulling anything, and I don’t give a rip how much he’s walking. They didn’t bring him here to walk. They brought him here to put his bat on the ball, and he isn’t doing it anymore. It’s produce or get out.

    I’m not going to make any argument for Peguero; he belongs in Tacoma refining his atrocious swing. Carp should be getting all these at-bats. But they need to be using players whose best days are ahead of them, not behind them.

  3. Daron Andrew on June 18th, 2011 6:31 pm

    Smoak, Ackley, Carp, Halman & Peguero all in the lineup. Love it!

  4. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 6:31 pm

    But Peguero has power; doesn’t he get a free ride? :)

  5. griffin on June 18th, 2011 6:33 pm

    Of course Beltre gives the Rangers the lead in extra innings, ugh.

  6. Dave on June 18th, 2011 6:36 pm

    People absolutely suck at telling when players are done. If you go through the list of active players over the age of 35, half of them have been proclaimed “done” during some slump, and almost all of them have then proven everyone wrong. Remember when David Ortiz was done two years ago (and then again last year)? Yeah, you can’t tell when someone is done.

    If the Mariners had a better option, I’d be all for replacing Jack Cust. He’s not great. The problem is that Carlos Peguero sucks even worse;

  7. Thom Jimsen on June 18th, 2011 6:37 pm

    Will Ackley fit in with his teammates?

    From “Raise High The Two-Seam, Fastballers,” by Brendan Ryan:

    “You could also hear old Ackley snoring. Right through the goddam clubhouse shower curtains you could hear him. He has sinus trouble and he couldn’t breathe too hot when he was asleep. That guy had just about everything. Sinus trouble, pimples, lousy teeth, halitosis, crumby fingernails. You had to feel a little sorry for that crazy sonuvabitch.”

  8. gwangung on June 18th, 2011 6:37 pm

    Look, Dave, the cold fact is that Cust is done. He can’t get around, he isn’t pulling anything, and I don’t give a rip how much he’s walking. They didn’t bring him here to walk. They brought him here to put his bat on the ball, and he isn’t doing it anymore. It’s produce or get out.

    This presumes that there is someone better to slip in the lineup. If, even with his power gone, Cust is more productive than Peguero, then you keep Cust, even if he’s just walking.

    THAT’S the cold fact (because you’d slop Carp in LF and not at DH).

    (If Peguero responds, then that changes the argument, but Peguero would have to represent a clear advantage to Cust).

  9. KiWiNiNjA on June 18th, 2011 6:38 pm

    It’s produce or get out.

    .276/.375/.447 in May, then only 4 GS since June 5.

    Seems like just a straight “get out” to me, since he was producing before.

  10. jordan on June 18th, 2011 6:40 pm

    I would rather Halman or Peguero go down before Cust goes away. Probably would have to be Peg though since we need a backup CF. Cust is better than both.

  11. Dave on June 18th, 2011 6:41 pm

    By produce, Ivan (and Eric Wedge) mean “get hits”. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the fan base still don’t appreciate the value of a walk.

  12. ivan on June 18th, 2011 6:41 pm

    People absolutely suck at telling when players are done.

    Well, Dave, that’s what I’m telling you, like it or not. His bat speed is G-O-N-E. If I end up sucking, I’m big enough to admit it and take it like a man. We’ll see if you are.

    And I appreciate the value of a walk as much as the next guy. They need more than that from him.

  13. Dave on June 18th, 2011 6:45 pm

    You can say whatever you want. History suggests that there’s no reason to listen to one man’s opinion on when a player is done. You just can’t tell.

  14. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 6:47 pm

    Cust isn’t DONE. He just isn’t what he used to be. Peguero can’t hit a fastball and he swings at 40% or more of pitches out of the zone. I would stick with the guy that knows every pitch isn’t hittable.

  15. griffin on June 18th, 2011 6:47 pm

    I’m not more for Peguero over Cust or the other way around. I just feel like Wedge isn’t real impressed with Cust or he would at least be playing a little, seems like he’s been on the bench a lot as of late. Someone posted his line, and whatever it may be, it must not be good enough or he’d be in the game against this rookie right hander. He is giving everyone some play time, but Cust hasn’t really gotten his lately, and that says something I feel like.

  16. puppyfoot on June 18th, 2011 6:49 pm

    I see, based on less than 100 AB’s Paguero is a proven non-MLB player.

  17. ivan on June 18th, 2011 6:49 pm

    Well, that’s my best guess. I have been wrong about stuff like this before and I expect I’ll be wrong again. But I have been right also, and I expect I’ll be right again.

  18. Dave on June 18th, 2011 6:49 pm

    It’s just more evidence that Eric Wedge doesn’t value the base on balls.

    Players with 50+ PA, 10% or higher BB% for the Mariners this year.

    Jack Cust, 17.9% (benched)
    Ryan Langerhans, 17.2% (DFA’d)
    Justin Smoak, 13.3%
    Luis Rodriguez, 11.5% (optioned to AAA)
    Milton Bradley, 11.3% (DFA’d)

  19. jordan on June 18th, 2011 6:50 pm

    64th different lineup in 70 games…

    wow

  20. Dave on June 18th, 2011 6:51 pm

    I see, based on less than 100 AB’s Paguero is a proven non-MLB player.

    Carlos Peguero has been playing professional baseball since 2006. He’s not some guy who has been destroying minor league pitching but is off to a rough start as a rookie. He was a crappy minor league player who got an ill-advised promotion to the majors, where he’s now a crappy major league player.

    Peguero could barely hit A-ball pitching. He can’t hit Major League pitching. He just doesn’t belong at this level.

  21. jordan on June 18th, 2011 6:55 pm

    Peguero literally just swings at anything as hard as possible and hopes for the best. That is not a major league hitter.

    He has mad power but so does hundreds of other minor leaguers. That does not make them major league hitters. A major league hitter needs good pitch recognition, a good feel for the strike zone, good swing dicipline, and good swing mechanics, among others.

    Peguero has none of that. Maybe decent mechanics but not good.

  22. apunetid on June 18th, 2011 6:56 pm

    Official Proclamation: For those of you who aren’t in the Philadelphia area (or Seattle, I suppose), this game is free on mlb.tv!

  23. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 6:57 pm

    Is a 450ft HR the baseball equivalent of dropping LSD? Perspectives seem to get warped.

  24. Paul B on June 18th, 2011 6:58 pm

    Minor league performance does provide predictive value when evaluating hitters.

    The only reason I want to see Carp get playing time is because I want to see if his 2011 was a fluke or if he took a step forward.

  25. jordan on June 18th, 2011 6:58 pm

    Is a 450ft HR the baseball equivalent of dropping LSD? Perspectives seem to get warped.

    Yes!

  26. Carson on June 18th, 2011 7:00 pm

    Keep your eye on the King’s Court. I’m the idiot dresses like a knight.

  27. Westside guy on June 18th, 2011 7:01 pm

    Peguero can’t hit a fastball and he swings at 40% or more of pitches out of the zone.

    AND, as people keep conveniently ignoring, he’s doing all this while being given a platoon advantage.

    I get it – it’s fun to watch big hackers. It’s fun to see them really get hold of one. I like seeing it too. But you have to balance those times the guy gets hold of one against all the times he doesn’t.

    I’m really not anti-Peguero. It doesn’t bother me a whole lot to see him out there, for reasons I’ve posted before (probably too many times). But the guy isn’t the second coming of Manny Ramirez. All the things Peguero is bad at tend to stabilize really quickly.

  28. Westside guy on June 18th, 2011 7:02 pm

    Keep your eye on the King’s Court. I’m the idiot dresses like a knight.

    So you’re in a dress?

    /ducks

  29. ivan on June 18th, 2011 7:02 pm

    Jack Cust, 17.9% (benched)
    Ryan Langerhans, 17.2% (DFA’d)
    Justin Smoak, 13.3%
    Luis Rodriguez, 11.5% (optioned to AAA)
    Milton Bradley, 11.3% (DFA’d)


    Yeah, right, Dave. Four journeymen and one up-and-coming star. Do you think he’ll DFA Ackley when Ackley’s walk percentage is 15% or so? Because he doesn’t value the base on balls?

    This team is in a rebuilding season in which it just happens to find itself close to the leaders in a lousy division. I don’t think their success to date is sustainable and neither do you.

    So what is the purpose of having players like Langerhans, Cust, and L. Rodriguez taking up space and playing time when they can be giving a look at kids who presumably have an upside and might help down the line? It’s what they did with Saunders; now it’s Halman’s and Peguero’s turn.

  30. Paul B on June 18th, 2011 7:05 pm

    now it’s Halman’s and Peguero’s turn.

    I just wish they had learned some pitch recognition before they got called up.

  31. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:09 pm

    Carlos Peguero has been playing professional baseball since 2006. He’s not some guy who has been destroying minor league pitching but is off to a rough start as a rookie. He was a crappy minor league player who got an ill-advised promotion to the majors, where he’s now a crappy major league player.

    Dave,
    Not trying to quarrel, but wasn’t Peguero a 2 time minor league All-Star, and an Arizona League all-star, and Player of the Week multiple times in the minors? We don’t value those things as meaningful assessments?

    That would seem to suggest while no MLB MVP candidate (ever), he was certainly above “crappy” at the minor league level? (And he certainly wasn’t getting votes for his glove.)

    Also, if the statistics some of the diehard USSMariner guys used are right in suggesting Peguero and Cust offer similar value, then it seems like you’re trying to have it both ways.

    Cust belongs, because all he can do is walk. Yet, Peguero doesn’t because all he can do is hit HR’s (at roughly the same pace as Justin Smoak, btw). Also, Peguero can play a position in the field (but that loses out to a guy who can walk a lot?)

    I know you’ll just tell me I’m stupid, or don’t know what I’m talking about, but from my limited couple years hanging out here it almost seems like you have an aversion to guys who ONLY offer power, while you’re fine with guys who ONLY offer OBP, or defense, or decent pitching every 5th day…

    (Also, just as people can’t predict when a guy is done, is it also correct then that “one guy” can’t predict when someone ISN’T done effectively too?)

    ((Going back to guys listing their value to the team similar, I think it’s safe to assume Peguero still has upside… And Cust’s best days are behind him.))

    (((I think you were exaggerating a bit when you say “almost all” of the guys in their mid 30′s who folks thought were done weren’t… You weren’t honestly suggesting just about NONE of the baseball players whose skills decline in their 30′s see their careers end– that “almost all” bounce back and get their careers going again?)) *or did I read that wrong?*

  32. Daron Andrew on June 18th, 2011 7:10 pm

    What the heck? Cust doesn’t belong on this team. What’s the chance he’ll be here next year? And the year after that? He won’t be.

    I don’t see the point of him being on the team anymore, let alone being given ample playing time. And maybe Peguero doesn’t belong with the team either, but I’d sure as hell rather give him a freaking shot than turn him away in favor of Cust.

    If its about the future, let’s make it about the future. I certainly won’t be somber when Cust is let go.

  33. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:12 pm

    Ugh…what are the chances Peguero learns what a “strikezone” is?

    5HRs do not make a MLB player!

  34. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 7:14 pm

    I agree there is strong evidence that Wedge doesn’t value the walk. I don’t think the fact that Milton Bradley was DFA’d is a valuable data point in the analysis.

  35. FetalPuzishun on June 18th, 2011 7:15 pm

    Come on Felix, don’t do this to us so early in the game

  36. Westside guy on June 18th, 2011 7:15 pm

    Yet, Peguero doesn’t because all he can do is hit HR’s (at roughly the same pace as Justin Smoak, btw).

    Oh, please.

    Peguero, platooned: .214/.274/.439
    Smoak, playing against lefties and righties: .253/.354/.480

  37. BLYKMYK44 on June 18th, 2011 7:16 pm

    If its about the future, let’s make it about the future. I certainly won’t be somber when Cust is let go.

    - So, from what I can read here…basically the argument is that it is ok to start the worse player just because he happens to be younger. That is kind of weird…

  38. Liam on June 18th, 2011 7:18 pm

    Adam Kennedy is three years older than Jack Cust, lost his spot to Ackley and isn’t going to be back next year. Time for him to go!

  39. FetalPuzishun on June 18th, 2011 7:19 pm

    Not too bad

  40. Daron Andrew on June 18th, 2011 7:19 pm

    Halman, Peguero, Carp. I believe these guys should be given most of the playing time before Cust. If they are atrocious then ok, we’ve got a good look at what they have to offer.

    I don’t see what the advantage is to playing Cust right now, not at the rate he’s currently performing.

  41. Daron Andrew on June 18th, 2011 7:20 pm

    Adam Kennedy is three years older than Jack Cust, lost his spot to Ackley and isn’t going to be back next year. Time for him to go!

    Except that Kennedy is outperforming Cust considerably right now…

    That’s not the argument man.

  42. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:21 pm

    Westy-
    I didn’t say he was HITTING as well as Smoak… He’s hitting HR’s at roughly the same rate.

    Smoak’s numbers are better because he’s a better hitter, and contributes in other ways like batting avg…

    Relax. Settle down. Sorry if that’s sacrilege.

  43. sailor_Jesse on June 18th, 2011 7:22 pm

    I think Cust looks just as uncomfortable at the plate as any of the young guys, if not worse. I dont expect Peguero to turn into the next Manny but he’s better than the current Cust.

    For the past handful of years, we have had underperforming veterans blocking the evaluation of our younger players and what for? While we are “Still in the race”, lets be realistic here. Its time to see what we have and go from there.

  44. rsrobinson on June 18th, 2011 7:24 pm

    By produce, Ivan (and Eric Wedge) mean “get hits”. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the fan base still don’t appreciate the value of a walk.

    Yeah, the M’s manager and fanbase would like to see their DH get hits. A crazy concept, I know.

  45. dallin on June 18th, 2011 7:24 pm

    Hey I’ve read that there’s a way to get around MLB.com’s blackouts so that you can watch the game. Does anyone here know how to do that?

  46. Glen on June 18th, 2011 7:24 pm

    - So, from what I can read here…basically the argument is that it is ok to start the worse player just because he happens to be younger. That is kind of weird…

    Thing is Peguero isn’t worse, they have essentially the same wOBA, wRC+, and WAR

  47. Jordan on June 18th, 2011 7:25 pm

    If its about the future, let’s make it about the future.

    Absolutely!

    Ugh…what are the chances Peguero learns what a “strikezone” is?

    There was a nice post at Lookout that addresses this. I realize it’s a small sample size and he’s being platooned, but his contact rate is going up and his swing rate is going down. These are both signs that he may eventually provide marginal value; especially to an anemic offense.

    it is ok to start the worse player just because he happens to be younger.

    I think the argument is that Cust has no future with the team AND there is little evidence that Peguero is marginally worse/better, so why not give hime an extended look much like Saunders got? Saunders just as, if not more, lost than Peguero does.

  48. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:26 pm

    Peguero
    5 HR in 93 ABs (1 in 18 AB’s)

    Smoak
    12 HR in 263 ABs (1 in 22 AB’s)

    So, I apologize for being incorrect… Peguero pops ‘em at a higher rate than Smoak.

  49. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 7:28 pm

    Does anyone really expect them to keep Peguero, Carp, and Halman all at the same time? You can throw Mike Wilson and Langerhans into that as well. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Peguero is getting playing time in an attempt to showcase his power. He could be a trade chip, especially for a team desperate for power. Or just flat-out desperate. I think Carp is far more likely to anchor down left field. Halman would remain the utility outfielder. His speed is maybe a better asset than his power. He reminds me a lot of Charles Gipson.

  50. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:30 pm

    I read that LL post and he still swings at 40% of pitches with a below average contact rate. And according to baseballanalytics Peguero can’t hit a fastball.

  51. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:30 pm

    DAMMIT!!!

    Almost had to correct that stat (points up)… Nice stroke Smoaky!

  52. Jordan on June 18th, 2011 7:30 pm

    Adam Kennedy is three years older than Jack Cust, lost his spot to Ackley and isn’t going to be back next year. Time for him to go!

    I’m thinking there’s sarcasm here. If not, then you are ignoring the fact that Kennedy can play multiple positions and may become important if/when we deal Wilson.

  53. juneau_fan on June 18th, 2011 7:31 pm

    Ugh, nothing like getting home late for the game to find them down 1-0. At least there’s some men on base…And Olivo hacking away.

  54. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:33 pm

    Steve–
    I do think they keep them all… For now. I think the whole point here is that NONE of them have earned their spot yet, and it’s a competition. We have the “luxury” (or detriment) of being able to hold that competition against MLB talent given that we don’t actually have a left fielder.

    I think Saunders was “the chosen one”– dropped the ball, and from there it basically is now an open competition.

  55. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:34 pm

    I think Carson just had a bite to eat.

  56. juneau_fan on June 18th, 2011 7:34 pm

    Uh, was that Carson? Or are there more than one guy dressed as a knight?

    Oh geez, Ich.

  57. Jordan on June 18th, 2011 7:35 pm

    I read that LL post and he still swings at 40% of pitches with a below average contact rate. And according to baseballanalytics Peguero can’t hit a fastball.

    Peguero is not a MLB ready bat…yet. I am only suggesting that he be given more time, as long as he shows improvement and isn’t preventing/limiting playing time of another player that has any possible future with the team.

    I am saying Cust has no place on this team. I could make that argument about Figgins too, but there are no better options.

  58. jordan on June 18th, 2011 7:35 pm

    That’s disgusting Carson

  59. MX on June 18th, 2011 7:36 pm

    what’s wrong with ichiro’s glove this year…

  60. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 7:36 pm

    Carson Nice bite outa that turkey leg!

  61. sailor_Jesse on June 18th, 2011 7:37 pm

    Ichiro has definitely lost a step.

  62. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:38 pm

    Fair enough Jordan.

  63. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:39 pm

    Weighted Run Values (from TangoTiger, and a bit dated– compiled from 1974-1990– but pretty safe to assume HR’s increased at a greater rate than BB’s since that time)

    BB 0.30
    1B 0.460
    2B 0.750
    3B 1.033
    HR 1.402

    I think the average fan expects the DH to contribute more instances of a 2B, or HR (ie, power numbers) versus other batters in your lineup. So what folks are bemoaning is that essentially, unless he’s walking at a rate higher than his batting average, to neutralize the difference in values, he’s actually leaving value behind when he takes a walk.

    Cust is a useful example, because he has 40 BB’s, and 39 hits currently.

    I don’t see the problem in wanting a DH who takes advantage of those higher run values, rather than one who works lots of walks.

    And to want a DH who can provide those higher values is NOT to say you don’t value a walk as an outcome. It’s just to suggest there are OTHER higher outcomes, and a DH (by design) usually hopes of offer you more of those higher values.

    It’s not really such a cut and dry “either/or” dilemma– it’s about an offense that struggles to score runs needing more impactful at bats from a few key hitters, and some folks expect the DH to be one of those hitters (if not THE top example of such a hitter).

  64. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 7:39 pm

    I saw that too. Nice job Carson. Haha…

    Felix doesn’t look at his most dominant, but he sure has the feel for his breaking ball tonight.

  65. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 7:39 pm

    what’s wrong with ichiro’s glove this year…

    So he’s not allowed to have bad read on the ball every once in a while? He’s had a few bad breaks this year yes, but he still is a pretty decent OF

  66. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:40 pm

    Peguero is not a MLB ready bat…yet. I am only suggesting that he be given more time, as long as he shows improvement and isn’t preventing/limiting playing time of another player that has any possible future with the team.

    I am saying Cust has no place on this team. I could make that argument about Figgins too, but there are no better options.

    This is my position too– nicely put, Jordan.

  67. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:40 pm

    I don’t understand why Ichiro dives headfirst on pickoff attempts but NEVER in the outfield.

  68. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 7:44 pm

    ACKLEY

  69. jordan on June 18th, 2011 7:44 pm

    THE ACK ATTACK!!!

  70. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:44 pm

    I think we can ALL AGREE that was SWEET!

    (Yeah, baby.)

    2-5, with HR… Against the Phillies. Not a bad start kid.

  71. rsrobinson on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    Ackley!

  72. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    ACK ATTACK!!!!!

    And USSmariner will blow up starting….. now!

  73. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    I have a man-crush on Ackley!

  74. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    MrZ, the keyword was “likely”. I don’t think any of them have guaranteed themselves anything. But I’d be surprised if we don’t see more of Carp in left. Saunders is a real interesting question mark as well. He’s hitting well in Tacoma again, but you have to wonder now if they’ll give him another chance. Failed to make the leap a few times now. On that note, Ackley just hit his first homerun!!!!

  75. msfanmike on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    ACKLEY – SWEET!

  76. Swungonandbelted on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    Damn, I may have to go buy an Ackley jersey. Way to go son!

  77. KiWiNiNjA on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    Ackley!!

  78. pdxMsfan on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    Wow. That swing looked just like an Utley HR.

  79. Glen on June 18th, 2011 7:45 pm

    Ackley says, I got your power right here!

  80. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:46 pm

    LOVE having a guy proficient enough with the bat that he can punish a mistake pitch. You are a sight for sore eyes, Mr. Ackley.

  81. juneau_fan on June 18th, 2011 7:46 pm

    I don’t understand why Ichiro dives headfirst on pickoff attempts but NEVER in the outfield.

    But he doesn’t slide headfirst into bases like some chowderheads in baseball. Big difference between diving back eight feet from a standstill and landing on your belly after diving forward 20 feet from a dead run, injury risk wise.

    Nice Ackley. Nice.

  82. mrnostalgia on June 18th, 2011 7:46 pm

    Damnnnnnnnn!!!!!! Rookie!

  83. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:47 pm

    SwungonandBelted-

    Maybe we can do a “Group Buy” and get a discount…? *I’m IN!*

  84. BLYKMYK44 on June 18th, 2011 7:47 pm

    It’s not really such a cut and dry “either/or” dilemma– it’s about an offense that struggles to score runs needing more impactful at bats from a few key hitters, and some folks expect the DH to be one of those hitters (if not THE top example of such a hitter).

    - Isn’t the point that Peguero doesn’t do what you are saying folks expect??

  85. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:47 pm

    mmostalgia-

    That’s what the Phillies said– different inflection though…

    “DAMN rookie!”

  86. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 7:48 pm

    Is it just me or are most of the kids that we are playing are really trying to crowd the plate? Is this something that the Tacoma staff is teaching?

  87. Glen on June 18th, 2011 7:50 pm

    I like all the Mariner guppies playing at once. It makes the ABs exciting!

  88. rsrobinson on June 18th, 2011 7:51 pm

    I’m loving watching these young guys.

  89. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 7:51 pm

    How strange…it actually looks like we have some players who know how to play the game.

  90. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:51 pm

    BLY-
    No, as others have stated, Pequero and Cust provide the same value, just in different manners, and folks are somewhat prejudiced to value the power numbers of a DH more than his walk numbers, because of the potential to score more runs.

    Nothing more, nothing less. 9 of one, an AL batting order of the other…

  91. Glen on June 18th, 2011 7:52 pm

    Wow Carp is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

  92. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 7:52 pm

    Fish out of water!

  93. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:52 pm

    Glen-
    “Young Guppies”
    Ha! We’re about to buy my 3 year old a fish tank… Might have to name the fish after all the young guys. (Love it)

  94. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 7:53 pm

    Brendan Ryan just looks awesome. Add in the glove and he’s fast becoming a favorite Mariner

  95. Paul B on June 18th, 2011 7:55 pm

    It was fun having Ryan bat second, for awhile. But it is time to get someone better in that spot. Probably Ackley.

  96. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:56 pm

    re: naming my sons fish after the Mariners

    Then we can flush ‘em if any get sent “down” during the season… (heh heh)

  97. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 7:58 pm

    Wait, did our 3B just make a routine play? So weird!

  98. mrnostalgia on June 18th, 2011 7:59 pm

    Edgar4Hall -

    You’re exactly right. I hope he’s here for a long time.

  99. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 7:59 pm

    Edgar-
    Yeah, and the throw didn’t pull Smoak off the bag or anything? (odd)

  100. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:00 pm

    I’ve always admired Victorino. Too bad we can’t plug him into left field….

  101. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:03 pm

    Let’s chase Worley right here… He is very hitable right now and they’ve gotten a good look by now… He’s going.down either this inning or next

  102. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:05 pm

    Can’t help but laugh a little over all the comments (complaints) about the Mariners wining a “pointless” game a few years ago against Oakland, that ‘gave’ the #1 pick to the Nationals, who of course drafted Strasburg. The Mariners had to settle for Ackley. Didn’t see how they ‘gave’ away anything then and still don’t.

  103. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:11 pm

    Prediction for this year: If Peguero stays with the big ball club, he will hit a homerun with a broken bat

  104. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 8:12 pm

    What’s up with Peguero’s bats?

  105. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:13 pm

    Guti catches that.

  106. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:14 pm

    I like Halman so I hate to say this: Guti would have caught that

  107. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:14 pm

    EDGAR-
    OR…

    The ball will be caught by the outfielder, but the head of his bat will go over the outfield wall…

  108. EricL on June 18th, 2011 8:14 pm

    What’s up with Peguero’s bats?

    He’s a big strong guy getting jammed swinging at sub-optimal pitches. Each time they’ve shown one of his bats exploding, the contact has been on the hands side of the label.

  109. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:15 pm

    I knew someone would say “Guti catches that”. It was a great effort by Halman. Easy to write that off.

  110. Auggeydog on June 18th, 2011 8:16 pm

    Two things:
    Carson if that was you eating that turkey leg that was gross!!!!

    Who would you rather see at the plate Cust or Peggy? Peggy is fun to watch swing at the speed of sound, Cust is boring walking out and adjusting his BG’s after each pitch then trotting down to 1st. I know Peggy has some improvement to do, and really needs to be in Tacoma, but he is here, let him swing. I also think we need to see over a long period of time what we need next year. If we have someone that really improves in LF or DH we don’t have to chase one in the offseason. Play the young guys and let them learn, if not send them down after a long look.

  111. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 8:16 pm

    That was a filthy pitch to get Polanco.

  112. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:16 pm

    Prediction-
    After Peguero kills multiple players with shards of broken bats, the league will make a rule that allows him to use Aluminum… He’ll knock a couple 800ft homeruns, but no one on opposing teams will complain…

    (NICE K, FELIX… that’s big time!)

  113. juneau_fan on June 18th, 2011 8:17 pm

    What’s up with Peguero’s bats?

    I’m waiting for him to break one hitting his own shoulder on that freaky swing of his.

  114. Auggeydog on June 18th, 2011 8:18 pm

    Mr Z not aluminum but composite bats, then he only hits 650′ HR’s.

  115. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:22 pm

    Edgar needs to make Peguero one of these

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NnJpctQEvc

  116. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:23 pm

    I wonder when Ackley will first hit for the cycle? Better question… Will Ackley will hit for the cycle before Peguero gets through a series without shattering a bat?

  117. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:25 pm

    I want Moyer back

  118. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:26 pm

    I want Moyer back

    I kinda want him to be a new announcer when he is done being a pitcher

  119. TaeBoJackson on June 18th, 2011 8:27 pm

    Whenever the career is finally over, Moyer would be a great color guy in the booth.

  120. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:29 pm

    Bigger question-
    WHEN will Ackley break the all-time “hit for the cycle” record… Currently 3x’s is the record, held by:

    John Reilly -Cincinnati
    Bob Meusel -New York (AL)
    Babe Herman -Chicago (NL)

    (Although I got a little saddened when I went searching and saw that our own Chone WTF Figgins has hit for the cycle- in 2006!)

    **EDGAR4HALL**
    LOVE that commercial… Nice one.

  121. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 8:30 pm

    Felixs’ changeup is really nasty tonight.

  122. Ichirolling51 on June 18th, 2011 8:31 pm

    ^I’d like to see Buhner in the booth full time too.

  123. sailor_Jesse on June 18th, 2011 8:31 pm

    what’s wrong with ichiro’s glove this year…

    So he’s not allowed to have bad read on the ball every once in a while? He’s had a few bad breaks this year yes, but he still is a pretty decent OF

    To me it looks like the effort is lacking, he doesnt hustle to the ball as he did in the past. He’s to scared to get hurt IMO.

  124. nvn8vbryce on June 18th, 2011 8:31 pm

    Whenever the career is finally over, Moyer would be a great color guy in the booth.

    Agreed!

  125. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 8:31 pm

    Moyer can say “cool” and not sound like a 47 year old. He is incredible.

  126. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:33 pm

    The Moyer Foundation (still based here in Seattle) is one of the finest non-profits ever organized by a sports star, too.

  127. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:33 pm

    If Ackley breaks the all-time cycle record, I’d be willing to bet there will be a World Series title in that mix as well!

  128. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:34 pm

    (I shouldn’t have left out Moyer’s wife Karen either when it comes to the Foundation.)

  129. absolutsyd on June 18th, 2011 8:34 pm

    Man, how many put outs at first is Felix going to have today?

  130. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:34 pm

    Jesse, I think that IF he isn’t taking as many risks as he did before it is because he understands the economics of the game and that he would rather play the next week at a high level than to make one catch and play for seven days with something like bruised ribs when he’s almost forty

  131. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:35 pm

    “I hope to be here”

    Then I’m sure he will be.

  132. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:35 pm

    Steve-
    I’d never even considered it before, but he TOTALLY has all the tools to hit for the cycle (more than once).

    It all depends on the luck of the triple, naturally, but I see plenty of single/double/HR games in his future.

  133. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 8:35 pm

    I’d rather have Moyer as a pitching coach, given the choice.

    Just like I’d like Edgar to be our hitting coach :)

  134. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 8:37 pm

    Moyer is the man.

  135. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:37 pm

    And Cora as our manager? Pineilla as the GM?

    Oh.. no?

  136. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 8:39 pm

    Ryan Howard and Ichiro sharing a little joke on first base.

  137. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:39 pm

    Just like I’d like Edgar to be our hitting coach
    Personally I would rather have those two coaching in the Minor Leagues instead of up in the majors

    Think of Peguero with two years of instruction with Edgar. That composite bat rule would be passed this winter lol

  138. jordan on June 18th, 2011 8:39 pm

    Best rally fries (god help us) signs ever

  139. spankystout on June 18th, 2011 8:41 pm

    Moyer would make a great pitching coach. He already studies like a crazy person and he knows how to get hitters out–regardless of ‘stuff.’

  140. sailor_Jesse on June 18th, 2011 8:44 pm

    Jesse, I think that IF he isn’t taking as many risks as he did before it is because he understands the economics of the game and that he would rather play the next week at a high level than to make one catch and play for seven days with something like bruised ribs when he’s almost forty

    I agree that he is probably much more aware of his body and the fact that he is NEVER injured is something I have always admired and respected. He is simply not an All-Star caliber player anymore and its a hard pill to swallow.

  141. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:44 pm

    Edgar-
    Except Edgar’s instruction would include… “whoa… WHOA!… What’s the hurry, why would you run that fast to first base…? Here’s how you do it…”

    (followed by a 45 second run to first base… NOT by Edgar though, instead he brings in Jose Lopez to demonstrate the proper Edgar running technique to Peguero)

  142. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:44 pm

    Oh and what about Pineda learning a Changeup from Moyer! that would be just great

  143. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:45 pm

    I’d never even considered it before, but he TOTALLY has all the tools to hit for the cycle (more than once).

    It all depends on the luck of the triple, naturally, but I see plenty of single/double/HR games in his future.

    Yeah, I’d never even thought about that either -and I didn’t realize no player had done it more than 3 times. He’s one of the very few that does have the tools to pull that off. Wouldn’t that be something?!!

  144. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:45 pm

    MrZ, if I didnt have a torn muscle in my back I would have fallen off the couch laughing at that. Well Played sir, well played

  145. Carson on June 18th, 2011 8:46 pm

    That was one helluva tasty turkey leg.

  146. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:46 pm

    Ooops, sorry all for the goof on the block quote. Had my own words in there as well.

  147. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 8:49 pm

    NOT by Edgar though, instead he brings in Jose Lopez to demonstrate the proper Edgar running technique to Peguero

    I’d hope edgar could find someone classier than Lopez. Olerud maybe? I remember my dad saying Olerud ran like he was mad at the ground.

  148. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 8:49 pm

    How funny would it be to see that “Kings Court” all sporting cold-sores next time Felix pitches?!

  149. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 8:51 pm

    Ok Carson, when I move back to Western Washington in July, I’m making sure I go to a Felix game and am part of the court. Ill dress like a knight as well if you come in that same getup.

  150. sailor_Jesse on June 18th, 2011 8:51 pm

    How funny would it be to see that “Kings Court” all sporting cold-sores next time Felix pitches?!

    LMAO…Exactly why you wouldnt catch me eating that community Drummy!!

  151. matthew on June 18th, 2011 8:52 pm

    Can’t even have a touching moment without throwing “R%%T SPORTS” into the mix. Good grief…

  152. Kazinski on June 18th, 2011 8:54 pm

    I don’t understand why Ichiro dives headfirst on pickoff attempts but NEVER in the outfield.

    Just how would you slide feet first back in to first from a standing start about 10 feet from the bag?

  153. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 8:59 pm

    Say it with me:

    “Olivo has earned Sunday off…”

    There, that wasn’t so hard, was it?

  154. mrnostalgia on June 18th, 2011 9:01 pm

    Peguero! You’re supposed to hit the ball over the fence not the bat!

  155. pogicory1 on June 18th, 2011 9:03 pm

    Is it just me or does Olivo look completely lost today with the bat…

  156. Carson on June 18th, 2011 9:08 pm

    Hey I made damn sure to bite off a fresh side. I was only the third participant. Though my buddy sent me video and the guy right after me bit off the side that had been bitten even though there was plenty of fresh side to be had.

  157. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 9:09 pm

    Is it just me or does Olivo look completely lost today with the bat…</blockquote

    Most of the Mariners have looked a bit lost tonight with the bat.

  158. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 9:09 pm

    Wonder if this one will go to extra innings?

  159. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:09 pm

    Is it just me or does Olivo look completely lost today with the bat…

    That is kinda Olivo in a nut shell.

    One bat he looks like he doesn’t even know which end to hold, the next he’s hitting a 450 foot home run.

    It may be that he has a very strange type of amnesia.

  160. Kazinski on June 18th, 2011 9:11 pm

    Peguero actually did a good job of tracking that down and getting it back in.

  161. Ibuprofen on June 18th, 2011 9:19 pm

    Ahhh dammit. So close to being foul.

  162. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:22 pm

    4 out of the last 5 outings by Felix have been mediocre for what he usually does.

    He has more walks than he usually has (14 in 4 games) and his velocity seems to be down a little bit.

    That is worrying to me.

  163. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 9:23 pm

    Rally fries need to die now.

  164. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:24 pm

    Those guys are great.

    More entertaining than the M’s offense, for sure.

  165. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:25 pm

    Is Victorino wearing a mouthguard in the outfield?

  166. stevemotivateir on June 18th, 2011 9:29 pm

    -No mouthguard, he took a bite of that leg as well. What you’re seeing is what got stuck in his teeth.

  167. Kazinski on June 18th, 2011 9:30 pm

    Wow, that was bizarre, I don’t think Ichiro would have beaten it out though.

    Nice to see Halman get to third on that.

  168. MX on June 18th, 2011 9:31 pm

    As much as I love Felix, he is not having a CY first half.

  169. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 9:33 pm

    It’s a curse that seems to strike every Cy winner except for Halladay.

  170. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 9:33 pm

    He just gave up three runs in seven innings against one of the best lineups in baseball. Two of the runs scored on a surgically-placed ground rule double. I’m not worried at all.

  171. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:34 pm

    I would like a new phrase added to the Mariners drinking game:

    “Professional hitter” or “professional at-bat” when referring to Adam Kennedy.

  172. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 9:36 pm

    WORST strike call of the year, that strike two call…

    F****** BULLSH**

  173. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 9:36 pm

    I’m confident that any amateur could have struck out swinging there.

  174. absolutsyd on June 18th, 2011 9:36 pm

    Ya, that was a damn bad call.

  175. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 9:37 pm

    Second pitch to Kennedy wasn’t even close. It was closer to hitting him than being a strike.

  176. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 9:37 pm

    Henry-
    And you pound your drink every time Peguero breaks a bat! (For those that have those sort of resources… A tiny sip everytime for the poorer folks.)

  177. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:39 pm

    I don’t think that the M’s should be doing a “back to the 80s” promotion.

  178. jordan on June 18th, 2011 9:40 pm

    Anyone else get the feeling that Ackley is going to end up in a big time pressure situation?

  179. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 9:40 pm

    As much as I love Felix, he is not having a CY first half.

    Yeah, but MX, if you remember, he didn’t have a Cy Young first half last season either.

    Felix actually has pretty solid numbers this year, just not off the charts… And he (strangely) doesn’t have the best stuff on our staff currently which feels really really weird.

  180. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 9:41 pm

    I don’t think that the M’s should be doing a “back to the 80s” promotion.

    It tells you how their promotions department is not made up of people who know anything about the Mariners before 1995.

  181. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 9:41 pm

    HenryV-
    I thought “Back to the 80′s” was just what they call the next game with Vargas pitching, after teams face Pineda and Felix back to back.

  182. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 9:43 pm

    Is this some new “how to hit Felix” technique– you lob the end of the bat at the ball and doink it over 2nd base in front of Halman?

  183. MrZDevotee on June 18th, 2011 9:43 pm

    PAULEY- with a wicked CURVE… Wow.

  184. henryv on June 18th, 2011 9:48 pm

    Is there a really nice hotel in downtown you guys might recommend?

    Looking at the Fairmount Olympic, or something like that. Something good for an anniversary.

    Going to the games on the 2nd and 3rd for our anniversary, and figure I should go with a nice place to make up for me getting to go to the game.

  185. Chris_From_Bothell on June 18th, 2011 9:55 pm

    Guti pinch hitting for Peguero…. and strikes out too. Perhaps it’s that spot in the order now that’s doing it.

  186. groundzero55 on June 18th, 2011 9:58 pm

    Great pitching is good to have, but it won’t come out ahead consistently against a real playoff team like the Phillies. In my estimation the M’s are still two legitimate bats (and probably a good bullpen arm) away from being a team to take really seriously.

  187. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 9:58 pm

    Henry, go for the Inn At the Market. Amazing place right in the middle of Pike place. I took my fiance there when I proposed to her. Usually if you mention that it is an anniversary they give you an upgrade as well.

  188. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 10:02 pm

    Henryv, there’s a range of hotels downtown. The Fairmont Olympic is your old style first-class hotel, famous for being in films and famous guests. If that’s your and your wife’s cup of tea, they in fact serve high tea. That kind of place.

  189. Breadbaker on June 18th, 2011 10:07 pm

    Jamey Wright’s pact with the devil clearly has expired.

  190. juneau_fan on June 18th, 2011 10:07 pm

    Oh Jamie Wright…

  191. KiWiNiNjA on June 18th, 2011 10:07 pm

    Jamey Wright is baaaaaaaad, yet he still is getting the ball over Ray, who has been gooooooood of late.

  192. henryv on June 18th, 2011 10:12 pm

    Henry, go for the Inn At the Market.

    The going price that I can find for it is nearly $380. Not sure I could afford that…

  193. Carson on June 18th, 2011 10:38 pm

    Just when you thought Red Sox fans were annoying.

  194. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 10:41 pm

    Sorry Henry, it was half that but I guess it was because in the winter. Probably better rates.

    Carson, what did they do now? Beat the shit out of a few Canuck fans?

  195. Edgar4Hall on June 18th, 2011 10:43 pm

    Oh and the rates are gonna be horrible since its the weekend of July 4th

  196. henryv on June 18th, 2011 10:58 pm

    August 2nd and 3rd, not July :)

  197. crelsner on June 19th, 2011 2:28 am

    I’m just guessing but based on Dave’s unrelenting dislike of Peguero, I’m thinking that Dave fears big black cock. and btw, I don’t respond to comments on my comments. Just here to say some shit and get TF out. Peace… of…

  198. eponymous coward on June 19th, 2011 5:13 am

    Not trying to quarrel, but wasn’t Peguero a 2 time minor league All-Star, and an Arizona League all-star, and Player of the Week multiple times in the minors? We don’t value those things as meaningful assessments?

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=peguer001car

    One season of good SLG at rookie ball, one at High Desert (read: complete joke of a ballpark/league for hitting, basically figure it’s Coors Field league-wide, so completely discount that).

    Jose Lopez has better minor league stats. No, really (.500+ slugging in AAA, 3 years YOUNGER).

    Carp is the better hitter of the two, and Carp and Cust should probably be in the lineup as the LH DH/LF options, and Peguero should be in Tacoma until he actually proves it’s time for him to be in the majors (based on what he has done so far, it’s not that time). Is it a huge deal that they are playing Peguero instead? No, it’s just a dumb, Willie Bloomquist over (insert name of not so good player that’s better here) move that has marginal value of maybe a win over replacement over a full season (which, while unfortunate, is probably not going to kill your team, though in a close race, you need every win you can get)… unless it’s a symptom of a manager who likes hacking and ignores the value of a walk, in which case, the M’s are going to have this problem for a while- plus it would suck if we started turning our kids into Lopezs and Yunis because they realize that’s how our MLB manager plays you- he likes hackers.

  199. groundzero55 on June 19th, 2011 6:22 am

    I think Peguero is in the lineup simply because the crowd likes big power guys who swing from their asses, every once in a while they will hit a homer and placate everyone. Management probably feels he puts more butts in the seats than starting Cust would.

    Cust is still better to have in the lineup, imo…as are Carp and Halman. Gutierrez not hitting is really complicating things, since an outfield of Guti, Ichi and Halman would be very good defensively.

  200. eponymous coward on June 19th, 2011 12:10 pm

    I think Peguero is in the lineup simply because the crowd likes big power guys who swing from their asses, every once in a while they will hit a homer and placate everyone. Management probably feels he puts more butts in the seats than starting Cust would.

    So the crowd would rather lose 4-3 with dingers than win 4-3 with walks?

    That’s your argument. And it’s disproven by, well, everything. Fans want wins (you might notice we don’t draw 4 million fans any more, because we don’t win any more). If management thought that, that would be criminal incompetence. Thankfully, I don’t think they are that stupid.

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