Carp and Peguero

Dave · July 14, 2011 at 9:38 am · Filed Under Mariners 

My latest post for Brock and Salk is up, and deals with the relative merits of Mike Carp and Carlos Peguero as they have climbed the minor league ladder.

Despite Peguero’s youthful face and Carp’s — I’ll just try to put this as gently as I can — not youthful face, it can be easy to overlook the fact that they’re actually pretty close to the same age. Mike Carp was born in June of 1986, while Peguero was born just eight months later in February of 1987. Peguero might seem like the young kid with a lot of potential growth ahead of him, and Carp might seem like a grizzled Triple-A veteran who gets exposed by big league pitching, but the reality is that they’re at pretty similar points in their career.

In fact, if we compare their performances throughout the minor leagues, we can see pretty clearly that Carp has been better than Peguero at nearly every point along their development path.

You can read the rest at their blog and listen to me talk to the guys at 11 am on 710 ESPN.

Comments

68 Responses to “Carp and Peguero”

  1. Dennisss on July 14th, 2011 9:57 am

    Dave, I think it’s safe to say at this point that if Carlos Peguero continues to play in the big leagues, it won’t be because you sat silent. You can comfortably tell yourself that you gave it your all.

    The post makes a great case for what a head-scratcher the whole Peguero situation is.

  2. DarkKnight1680 on July 14th, 2011 10:13 am

    While I agree that a) Peguero should be on the first train back to Tacoma and b) Carp is a better option, I’d prefer to let Halman have those at-bats and MLB experience. While he doesn’t have the OBP skills that Carp does, and though he’ll strike out a third of his ABs, he’s more than a full year younger and the upgrade in defense and baserunning makes him the better play IMO. His power will continue to develop, and even if he strikes out like Mark Reynolds I can live with that from a guy who is outstanding in the field and can steal 40+ bases.

  3. robbbbbb on July 14th, 2011 10:20 am

    While Halman is performing okay in his first extended MLB trial, a lot of his performance is tied up in a .436 BABIP. That’s not sustainable.

    He strikes out in 30% of his plate appearances, too. With that strikeout rate, his future performance is more likely to be around .250/.280/.400. With good defense, that’s a prime candidate for a platoon role/fourth outfielder.

    He swings and misses. A lot. Including a lot of stuff outside the zone. I wouldn’t count on much from Greg Halman over the rest of the year. He’s out-performing his peripherals.

  4. The_Waco_Kid on July 14th, 2011 10:26 am

    I agree that Carp is a better option. Clearly, they don’t really like Carp but do like Peguero. As you say, neither one is a great option. I’m pretty sure they are thinking, “Well, both are kind of a longshot, Peguero moreso, but if he figures out ML pitching, he has more upside than Carp.” Regardless, I’m starting to wonder if they’ll ever send him back.

  5. Thom Jimsen on July 14th, 2011 10:26 am

    Carp: Oldest-looking young guy in a Mariner uniform since the halcyon days of Mike Moore.

  6. tylerv on July 14th, 2011 10:51 am

    Apples and oranges. This organization is going nowhere.

  7. Liam on July 14th, 2011 11:19 am

    Dave had a really good on-air segment this week.

  8. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 11:21 am

    The M’s interest in Peguero is not a secret…he has natural, monstrous, “light tower” power…Carp has arguably been a gap hitter for most of his career, until 2010.

    Peguero’s career minor league SLG is twenty-seven points higher. The sample sizes are small, but Peguero also has a thirty-five point advantage in SLG in the majors.

    It is also worth pointing out that Peguero has good speed…Carp is a turtle. Personally, I would like to see Carp installed as the DH, not LF.

    In any event, I am much more worried about Smoak’s lengthy slump, as he was the centerpiece of the Lee trade.

  9. nickwest1976 on July 14th, 2011 11:37 am

    I agree, why not DH Carp? Clearly Cust is not in the plans now or long-term but Carp could provide some value at DH, play LF 1-2 times per week and even spell Smoak at 1B once a week.

    Pegeuro should be at AAA working on his swing where he won’t be hurting the major league club. I would then like to see the M’s go out and trade for a LF, maybe make a run at Hunter Pence and push Halman to the 4th OF role where I think he would be useful as he could spell Guti twice a week until Guti is stronger, give Ichiro one day off a week and pinch run and be a good defensive replacement guy.

  10. jordan on July 14th, 2011 11:43 am

    I’ll make my argument in a shorter and different approach…

    Peguero is absolute suck, while Carp is not.

  11. Paul B on July 14th, 2011 11:45 am

    tylerv:

    Apples and oranges. This organization is going nowhere.

    Well, this organization did have a good year, bringing both Pineda and Ackley to the team. That automatically makes it a good year. Developing two players that good every year would be unbelievable.

  12. Paul B on July 14th, 2011 11:48 am

    It is also worth pointing out that Peguero has good speed…

    If only he could do something with it other than take horrid lines to balls.

  13. groundzero55 on July 14th, 2011 11:49 am

    It is also worth pointing out that Peguero has good speed…Carp is a turtle. Personally, I would like to see Carp installed as the DH, not LF.

    In any event, I am much more worried about Smoak’s lengthy slump, as he was the centerpiece of the Lee trade.

    I fully agree. Carp projects as a DH type, not a guy for the outfield. And I’m also worried about Smoak, hopefully the break did him some good.

    I would then like to see the M’s go out and trade for a LF, maybe make a run at Hunter Pence and push Halman to the 4th OF role where I think he would be useful as he could spell Guti twice a week until Guti is stronger, give Ichiro one day off a week and pinch run and be a good defensive replacement guy.

    Fully agree. Pence would be a great pickup as well. And I’m hoping (praying?) that the team opens up the wallet for Prince Fielder this offseason as I think a 2-5 of Ackley-Pence-Fielder-Smoak (non-slumping version) would make this team immediately legitimate.

  14. tylerv on July 14th, 2011 12:01 pm

    PaulB:
    Well, this organization did have a good year, bringing both Pineda and Ackley to the team.

    Point taken. But with the offensive problems this team has and the lack of offensive depth at the minor league level, the difference between Carp and Peguero is laughable. Maybe every little uptick matters on a team that scores so little, but that’s peanuts compared to how much they need to score to be a perennial winning org.

  15. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 12:08 pm

    Peguero’s career minor league SLG is twenty-seven points higher. The sample sizes are small, but Peguero also has a thirty-five point advantage in SLG in the majors.

    Did you actually read Dave’s article where he explained where those minor league numbers came from?

    Why don’t you try doing that, where he explains the context quite thoroughly, and pretty much demolishes that point you just made?

  16. make_dave_proud on July 14th, 2011 12:08 pm

    I see the Peguero situation as a reflection on the rest of the team. Namely, he’s one of very few with major power.

    The team’s (Wedge? Z? Ownership?) infatuation with Peguero shows how they will give *someone* — ANYONE — with some pop in their bat a shot. He may be lousy and overhack, but on a team such as the Mariners, he earns a job.

    If anything, it shows how the thinking goes with regard to OBP vs. what the powers-that-be believe is needed to help this offense. Lots of arguments go against sticking a guy like Peguero in the lineup, but his ability to change the game with a swing exceeds just about everyone else in the organization. Given the state of the offense, there may not be as much downside to running him out there.

    I disagree with all this, BTW; but put in these terms, it’s nearly the only way I can come to terms with the 2011 Peguero Experiment from a decision basis.

  17. make_dave_proud on July 14th, 2011 12:13 pm

    And I’m hoping (praying?) that the team opens up the wallet for Prince Fielder this offseason

    The assumption/rumor at the ASG was that Fielder was simply auditioning for the Yankees.

  18. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 12:14 pm

    Oh, and…

    In any event, I am much more worried about Smoak’s lengthy slump, as he was the centerpiece of the Lee trade.

    Fun fact: Justin Smoak? Right in between Carp and Peguero in age. And his numbers this year are pretty much right on where preseason projection systems put him- or even a little high, slump and all. People wanted to turn him into the Great White Hitting Hope at 1B based on his early season hitting, but he probably isn’t at 24- he’ll be OK and he’s making progress, but given a) league numbers being down and b) never been an elite hitter in the minors, he’s not likely to be a top-flight 1B. At this point, settle for “OK”.

  19. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 12:16 pm

    Coward,

    Do you really believe that Carp has Peguero’s natural, God-given power? Dave doesn’t even believe that.

    Moreover, you conveniently leave out the 35 point difference in their MLB slugging percentages…no doubt, you will respond with the old, tried and true “small sample size” argument.

    For some reason, Dave and you would rather repeatedly carp about Peguero, than about the decline of Ichiro, and the troubling slump/power outage of Smoak. Those are bigger problems than LF.

    Finally, I never thought of Carp as the “grizzled” veteran…that would fall to Cust.

  20. Paul B on July 14th, 2011 12:24 pm

    For some reason, Dave and you would rather carp about Peguero, than about the decline of Ichiro, and the troubling slump/power outage of Smoak.

    So what do you think they should do with Ichiro and Smoak? Get rid of them?

  21. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 12:30 pm

    Yes, I would trade Ichiro.

    I would try my hardest to sign Prince Fielder, and think about moving Smoak.

    The point is that Peguero isn’t the M’s biggest problem, but some certainly make it seem that way.

  22. groundzero55 on July 14th, 2011 12:31 pm

    The assumption/rumor at the ASG was that Fielder was simply auditioning for the Yankees.

    That’s the rumor about every good free agent. I don’t buy into it, and the Cliff Lee deal showed that free agents can and will turn down the Yankees on occasion.

    Fielder will likely go to whomever pays him most. The Yankees may offer a lot, but they always set a limit after which they say “no thanks.”

  23. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 12:35 pm

    Do you really believe that Carp has Peguero’s natural, God-given power?

    Power is not the only component of hitting, though for some reason, it’s the only component a lot of people commenting on this blog seem to care about when it comes to discussing the merits of Carlos Peguero.

    Being able to get on base and judge the strike zone counts too, when we’re evaluating hitters. Peguero sucks at it right now, and he has through his minor league career. Carp is better. Overall, Carp’s hitting ability is better than Peguero’s.

    Peguero is essentially the lefty version of Wladimir Balentien.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=balent001wla

    He’s also about as likely to be playing for the Yakult Swallows in a few years as the Seattle Mariners, or MLB, as Wlad was when HE was the “OMG LIGHT TOWER POWER” prospect in this organization. Peguero could develop, but his stats do not clearly indicate that he WILL develop. It’s all wishful thinking based on BP and scout intuition at this point.

    Moreover, you conveniently leave out the 35 point difference in their MLB slugging percentages…no doubt, you will respond with the old, tried and true “small sample size” argument.

    So is your point that we should use small sample sizes to evaluate players? Well, Jack Cust’s outhit them both recently. So he’s not playing because… Peguero hits light towers in BP?

    For some reason, Dave and you would rather carp about Peguero, than about the decline of Ichiro, and the troubling slump/power outage of Smoak.

    Smoak I dealt with above. Get over the idea that he’s a top-flight 1B at age 24. He’s probably Tino Martinez, in a best-case scenario… if you adjust for the fact that it’s not the 1990′s-2000′s many more.

    And what would you like to do with Ichiro, aside from playing him? He’s 37 and under contract for 2012 at a price that makes him a boat anchor unless he’s hitting. Do you want to designate him for assignment right now?

    Also, I have carped about the fact that the Mariners have huge problems with their 2012 OF if Ichiro still hits like this and Guti is still crippled. Because fantasizing that Peguero is going to turn into the next Manny Ramirez is not a plan to deal with a Mariner outfield that has nobody with much above replacement-level performance right now.

  24. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 12:40 pm

    Oh, and one other minor factor, while we’re on “trade Ichiro”- there’s the minor problem that he has ten-and-five rights that allows him to veto any deal, so good luck trading him.

  25. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 12:40 pm

    Well said, and I agree with just about everything you stated…however, I never said Peguero was a better hitter, or would make a better MLB player.

    I just think making an argument for more playing time for Carp, at Peguero’s expense, makes little sense, particularly in light of the standings.

    My solution was to jettison Cust and install Carp at DH, and he could occasionally spell Smoak, or play LF on occasion.

    Finally, I would like to know if you believe Carp is a better defender than Peguero. I don’t.

  26. B13a on July 14th, 2011 12:43 pm

    Peguero definitely has the power tool people are looking for, but let’s face it: his skills are as polished as horse manure. He does not belong in the majors at this moment, and he’s better off developing in the minors. His hitting needs work, his defense is painful, he doesn’t steal bases…Peguero just plain sucks.

    I agree that Carp and Halman should get more playing time than Peguero. Let Carp play as much as Peguero has and see if he succeeds or fails. If he gets it going, cool. If not, then it doesn’t really matter based on how bad Peguero has played.

    And by let Carp and Halman play, I mean Carp at DH and Halman in left. That way, at least defense won’t be an issue.

  27. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 12:46 pm

    Yes, with the M’s arguably out of the race, I would get rid of Cust and keep playing Peguero.

    Does Cust have a future with the M’s? Probably not.

  28. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 12:46 pm

    Based on what I’ve seen? Neither of them are very good.

    I’d probably play Carp/Halman in LF (Halman as the RHB of the platoon+late inning defensive replacement), Cust DH’s, and Peguero gets sent down to Tacoma to learn some strike zone. He can come back in September to play out the string.

  29. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 12:48 pm

    Just curious, Ep, why retain Cust on a team going to a youth movement?

  30. groundzero55 on July 14th, 2011 1:00 pm

    At this point we should be jettisoning anyone who doesn’t have a place on next year’s team for whatever we can get, including PTBNL’s and C prospects, even cash considerations. Move Cust to someone who needs a bench bat, who knows, he might get a playoff appearance out of the deal.

  31. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 1:06 pm

    Just curious, Ep, why retain Cust on a team going to a youth movement?

    Because I think playing young players who aren’t ready for MLB is counterproductive. Look at how many guys we’ve burned through playing them before they were ready during bad seasons, on the grounds of “who cares, we’re not winning this year anyway”: Saunders, Balentien, Lopez. Look at the Royals- they are famous for doing this to their players- throwing guys out there who aren’t ready, watching them flop and destroy their confidence, sending them on a shuttle between Omaha and KC, and it doesn’t do anyone any favors. Plus it makes your team worse- and yes, it does make a difference in winning 65 games and 75 games, or even 70 and 75.

    Does that mean if I can get something for Cust, I don’t trade him? Hardly. But you’re not going to GET anything for Cust if you park his ass on the bench.

  32. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 1:12 pm

    I wouldn’t keep Cust under any circumstances, except if the standings were different.

    While I may disagree in regards to sending Peguero down, I certainly understand your position. I take it then you disagree with Wedge’s position that Peguero will learn more against MLB pitching, than if he were sent down to AAA?

  33. groundzero55 on July 14th, 2011 1:14 pm

    Look at how many guys we’ve burned through playing them before they were ready during bad seasons, on the grounds of “who cares, we’re not winning this year anyway”: Saunders, Balentien, Lopez.

    There is a line to be drawn between the players not being “ready” for the majors, and being the kind of players who simply are not cut out for sustained time in the majors. I’m not completely sure all the players you listed belong in the former. Lopez had a VERY good 2008 and 2009 yet has now fallen off a cliff in his 6th full season.

  34. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 1:19 pm

    I’ll put it this way- did Jose Lopez learn the strike zone in MLB? Yuni? Wlad? No, not so much.

    For every case where you can point to someone who blew past their minor league numbers (Raul Ibañez), you can point to many, many more who don’t. Minor league numbers are very predictive of major leeague performance. If they weren’t, the nerds who hang out on blogs would have noticed by now. They aren’t 100% predictive because nothing in MLB can be predicted with 100% accuracy with statistics, but just like how you probably don’t want to pay your mortgage with winnings from your roulette system, you probably don’t want to ignore things that say that Carlos Peguero isn’t the best hitting prospect the Mariners have right now.

  35. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 1:22 pm

    Lopez had a VERY good 2008 and 2009 yet has now fallen off a cliff in his 6th full season.

    Lopez’s minor league stats were significantly better than Peguero’s (better stats AND younger player)… and you saw how he struggled in 2004/2005, coming up when he did.

  36. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 1:24 pm

    I do admit that I like the fact that opposing pitchers finally fear a Mariner hitter’s power…even though they keep striking his ass out.

  37. make_dave_proud on July 14th, 2011 1:25 pm

    Fielder will likely go to whomever pays him most. The Yankees may offer a lot, but they always set a limit after which they say “no thanks.”

    Yes, and we’re talking about the Yankees. NY News making a guess at $25 MM per year, and Fielder certainly doesn’t seem to be anti-Yankee.

    I’m pretty sure the Mariners aren’t in the conversation.

  38. groundzero55 on July 14th, 2011 1:31 pm

    Lopez’s minor league stats were significantly better than Peguero’s (better stats AND younger player)… and you saw how he struggled in 2004/2005, coming up when he did.

    A lot of good players struggle their first year or two into the majors. That doesn’t always mean they aren’t as ready as they can be. Instances where a player can move effortlessly from AAA to ML are much fewer. I don’t know that there is any way to judge when a player is “ready” especially when we keep seeing guys in our own organization that absolutely terrorize AAA pitching yet somehow cannot get a grip on pitching in the majors (Hello Tui).

    I think pure physical tools are enough to succeed in the minors while success at the major league level demands more adaptability which is where we saw Saunders and Lopez come off the tracks.

    Pure pull hitters generally only succeed when they also have an excellent eye at the plate enabling them to lay off pitches on the outer half.

  39. BLYKMYK44 on July 14th, 2011 1:35 pm

    I look forward to Dave’s next post in this series titled: “The Sky is Blue and Water is Wet”

    The thing that confuses me the most about the Peguero love is that 33% of his HRs came in one game. It really feels like that basically all the people who support Peguero are point to one GAME as evidence of why he should be playing. Amazes me.

  40. groundzero55 on July 14th, 2011 1:36 pm

    Yes, and we’re talking about the Yankees. NY News making a guess at $25 MM per year, and Fielder certainly doesn’t seem to be anti-Yankee.

    I’m pretty sure the Mariners aren’t in the conversation.

    That article was pure speculation, and since New York is the biggest media market in the country, naturally most of the speculation will be on the Yankees. Personally I think if the Yankees have to make a choice between Reyes and Fielder they should go for Reyes instead seeing as Jeter is crap at shortstop. Jeter can be the new DH and Posada can go away.

  41. bookbook on July 14th, 2011 1:37 pm

    Honestly, I think Peguero is the M’s biggest problem. When the M’s seemed to have a chance to compete for the playoffs, playing Peguero and Kennedy over Carp and Cust is a part of the reason why that small chance disappeared.

    I’m worried longterm that the braintrust that made those calls is likely to still be in place next year when it might matter more.

    Carp had an 1100 OPS at AAA this year, building on a successful 2010 at AAA. He is at this point much more likely to hit for sustained power at the major league level than Peguero. I’d love for Peguero to spend a full year at Tacoma playing every day and maybe–just maybe–figuring out an approach that gives him a fighting chance at the plate.

  42. currcoug on July 14th, 2011 1:45 pm

    Smoak went 0-15 against the Angels, which was arguably the most important series of the season.

    Smoak’s OPS for July is an abysmal .355 (34 AB’s), which followed a relatively cold .737 performance in June.

  43. Westside guy on July 14th, 2011 1:47 pm

    I suspect Z and Wedge never thought the M’s had a legitimate chance to make the playoffs this year. What they express to the media may or may not be truth.

    I expect we’ll see Halman being given the chance to prove whether he deserves a major league – I think that actually started a few games ago.

    Also, albeit on a tangent – I’m tired of hearing about Peguero’s “strong arm”. The guy seems to have a 10 degree variance on either side of the line he actually wants to throw to. A couple games ago, after a particularly off-kilter throw that was supposed to go to home plate, Sims said “he hit the cutoff man”, which was ridiculous given the “cutoff man” was standing in the infield at the time. I’d like to see his throws’ spray charts.

  44. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 2:00 pm

    Id rather see Halman get every chance then watch Carp or Peguero. While i agree Peguero is just terrible and should not be playing Carp is nothing more then AAAA player from what i have seen.

  45. Jay R. on July 14th, 2011 2:06 pm

    Carp and Halman well before Peguero.

    Am I the only one extremely leery of throwing a huge chunk of money at Prince Fielder? His body is a breakdown waiting to happen…The older he gets, the harder it is to carry that kind of weight without significant injuries. Not to mention gaining more as he ages. If you could get him for 3 or 4 years at around 20m, sure. But he is going to sign for double that length and probably 25-30% more per year.

    The M’s and their limited payroll can’t cover that; if he breaks down and his production stops (or significantly diminishes) then we are looking at a Kevin Mitchell-sized disaster.

  46. nickwest1976 on July 14th, 2011 2:20 pm

    Why do the pro Peguero people keep making the argument that we need to let Pegeuro play every day and develop at the major league level? AAA is a much better place for him to develop and play each day without hurting the major league team.

    I agree with letting the kids play to a large extent but only if those kids warrant the opportunity and are close to or already major league level players. Ackley and Smoak are young guys who are obviously major league ready. Carp has done all he can do in AAA and should now get a shot to show he is major league ready. Halman is much further along than Peguero and you could justify seeing what he can do in the bigs.

    But Peguero is a mess right now and needs a ton of work. That work is best suited in AAA.

    I don’t believe in handing players jobs because it is simply a youth movement. That sends the message that performance is secondary especially when you have a guy in Carp that was as Dave said, arguably one of the best hitters in the PCL this year.

    The team sent Saunders down beacuse he wasn’t getting it done and that was the right call. They should make the same call with Peguero, move Carp to DH and let Halman have a shot in LF. Then hopefully the club makes a trade for a solid outfielder where Halman can then be the 4th outfielder.

  47. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 2:36 pm

    If you could get him for 3 or 4 years at around 20m, sure.

    It’s pretty likely that the Mariners will have about 20 million in overall salary space for 2012 once you deal with the arbitration-eligible players and pay all the rookies/non-arbitration players their salaries. That’s not including resigning Bedard, incidentally.

    Dumping ALL of that money into your DH and letting the OF fester, not doing anything about 3B, and not replacing Bedard, and investing ALL of that money into a player with old player’s skills, who will ONLY be contributing with the bat (since Smoak is your 1B)… I could not possibly agree with this less. Prince Fielder is not a good fit for this team.

    I don’t believe in handing players jobs because it is simply a youth movement. That sends the message that performance is secondary especially when you have a guy in Carp that was as Dave said, arguably one of the best hitters in the PCL this year.

    That boils down my argument about Peguero to its basics. Thank you.

  48. spankystout on July 14th, 2011 2:39 pm

    I wonder if most Peguero fans were fans of John Daly? I mean the thrill of power which hides the fact (from some) the rest of their game was nonexistent.

  49. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 2:40 pm

    I am worried about Fielder’s weight sure but i am all for bringing him in question is will Nintendo let Z make this move. He is a potential 30-50 HR guy and he could slot right inbetween Ackley and Smoak he doesn’t have to just DH he could split time with Smoak playing 1st. Might aswell not spend at all if your not going to get the best bat i don’t want to overpay for a mediocre one.

  50. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 2:57 pm

    Might aswell not spend at all if your not going to get the best bat i don’t want to overpay for a mediocre one.

    Look, we’ve already tried the “let’s spend gobs of money on awesome free agents” shtick. Anyone remember Adrian Beltre and Richie Sexson? Anyone?

    There is no indication that the team is going to blow up the payroll by 50 million (and remember when they did a big payroll boost for Bavasi prior to 2008? How did that work?). So realistically, you have 20 million or so. It’s foolish to waste ALL of that on ONE position when the Mariners have a crap 3B, and an OF that’s playing like crap, and they will have a good starting pitcher who’s going to walk out the door unless you resign him.

    Fielder is ONE player. He plays a position where the M’s have a decent, young, cheap player, and moving him to DH (or using a Smoak/Fielder combo at 1B/DH) negates a lot of his (or their) value, plus it soaks up resources the M’s could use for other things (replacing Figgins, adding an OF, resigning/replacing Bedard, and so on).

    Fielder’s a fine player (though I worry about Mo Vaughn/Richie Sexson disease). He’s just not a good fit for a team that has a young 1B that we need to keep playing to see if he’s going to turn into Tino Martinez or Eric Hinske…

  51. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 3:20 pm

    Adrian Beltre never was that good in LA he had one good year and Bavasi threw money his way also Richie Sexson was close to the end he was a RH bat also. Prince will be 27,28 when he signs he is in the prime of his career and he is LH. So you want to tell Z he can’t make a move because of past GM failures? So how do you propose we make this team better if you don’t want to get Fielder? There is no bats in our Minors you aren’t going to get offense from there.

  52. spankystout on July 14th, 2011 3:31 pm

    Just go and trade for Prince Fielder on ‘MLB the Show’ already.

    A team with a 90M$ payroll doesn’t need an overweight DH and a declining RF taking up 40M$ of the payroll.

  53. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 3:39 pm

    Just go and trade for Prince Fielder on ‘MLB the Show’ already.

    A team with a 90M$ payroll doesn’t need an overweight DH and a declining RF taking up 40M$ of the payroll.

    Who said anything about trading for Fielder? I said sign him in the Off Season. I could see this team contending if he was in the lineup with the pitching staff we have.

  54. spankystout on July 14th, 2011 3:46 pm

    You obviously missed the point. Go and get him in a video game to satisfy your desire. Because in reality, signing, or trading for Fielder makes no sense.

  55. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 3:52 pm

    You obviously missed the point. Go and get him in a video game to satisfy your desire. Because in reality, signing, or trading for Fielder makes no sense.

    Can you give me a reason why instead of saying that it makes no sense. Don’t mention his weight because i already said that worrys me a bit but you can’t be afraid to make that move as a GM because anybody can get hurt in a freak accident or there body breaking down for whatever reason. Were you for the Hernandez extension that Z gave Hernandez? That is a huge risk as he is doing something that is not natural to the body. (Im glad that Z signed Hernandez by the way just pointing out that extending Hernandez was a risk aswell.)

  56. spankystout on July 14th, 2011 4:02 pm

    Read the comments again. I thought Eponymous did a fine job of covering many of the reasons why Fielder is not a smart choice for the M’s.

  57. Mike Snow on July 14th, 2011 4:02 pm

    Okay, enough. The post is about Carp and Peguero. Prince Fielder is not even mentioned, so comments that focus on him exclusively are off-topic from here on out.

  58. spankystout on July 14th, 2011 4:10 pm

    Woohoo thank you Mr. Snow

  59. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 4:18 pm

    Just wanted to say i did read what Eponymous and it was the weight issue and like i said you can’t use that as a reasoning as i said that does worry me but you have to worry about injury issues with every player you sign. That is all i will now quit thank you Snow.

  60. PackBob on July 14th, 2011 5:28 pm

    Thankyou.

  61. Chris_From_Bothell on July 14th, 2011 5:28 pm

    I still don’t understand the love for CAAAArp.

    There isn’t a better left fielder or DH to be had this coming offseason in trade or free agency?

    Sure, run him out there for August and September this year. (Assuming Guti gets the DL time he seems to still need, and Halman is in CF for 2 months.) But he doesn’t seriously have a future with the Ms, does he?

  62. Jordan on July 14th, 2011 5:32 pm

    Just wanted to say i did read what Eponymous

    No, because the point made is that this team needs to improve in many areas not just one. Throwing all eggs into one basket while neglecting the rest is silly.

    So how do you propose we make this team better if you don’t want to get Fielder?

    First off, Peguero AND Carp do not belong on this team unless Cust is jettisoned to make room for Carp. However, I still prefer Peguero because at least there’s a chance something will happen.

    To get better I suggest trading from our only position of strength: Pitching.

    The only pitcher that I wouldn’t trade is Felix. But, Pineda would need to bring back a player such as Upton.

    In a few weeks Z will orchestrate a 3 team deal involving Hanley Ramirez and the Peguero nightmare will finally end. (joke)

  63. xsacred24x on July 14th, 2011 6:11 pm

    No, because the point made is that this team needs to improve in many areas not just one. Throwing all eggs into one basket while neglecting the rest is silly.

    But isn’t that what our biggest weakness is the offense? Our pitching has been giving Quality start after Quality start and the offense has given them nothing to work with i wouldn’t be surprised to see the pitchers struggle because they think they have to be perfect. (Im sorry this is for real the last time just don’t get why people are so afraid to sign a super star who could put the team over the top.) Its either that or trade Walker,Paxton,Hultzen when he signs for some offense.

  64. make_dave_proud on July 14th, 2011 7:14 pm

    I wonder if most Peguero fans were fans of John Daly? I mean the thrill of power which hides the fact (from some) the rest of their game was nonexistent.

    I played golf with John Daly in high school and have known him for more than 20 years. Before he was a big hitter, he was a control freak (about shot making.) Fades, draws, low, hi, you name it — he obsessed with making great shots. And his short game was phenomenal.

    If only some of our hitters were once like this…

  65. make_dave_proud on July 14th, 2011 7:19 pm

    {Redacted comments about the Yankees & Fielder. Apologies for taking the thread off on the tangent.}

  66. eponymous coward on July 14th, 2011 10:32 pm

    But isn’t that what our biggest weakness is the offense?

    Our biggest weakness is having MANY bad offensive players. Our entire starting outfield is horrible, we have no answers at 3B, the DH isn’t good. Signing one player? Solves ONE problem.

    I want the Mariners to solve more than one problem in the offseason. Blowing the budget on one player doesn’t do that.

  67. vj on July 15th, 2011 12:54 am

    What puzzles me: Of all our left field options, Langerhans may actually be the closest to league average. Yet he has played in only 19 games.

  68. OffensivelyChallenged on July 15th, 2011 1:53 pm

    Carp would obviously tear up MLB pitching. Peguero is the reason the M’s can’t contend.

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