Game 120 – Blue Jays at Mariners

marc w · August 15, 2011 at 5:15 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Michael Pineda vs. Henderson Alvarez, 7:10pm

Happy Pineda Day!

The M’s welcome the Blue Jays to Safeco tonight as both teams trot out some of the young guys they hope to contend with in some glorious, Yankee-less future. 3B Brett Lawrie hasn’t slowed down following his promotion, Colby Rasmus is adjusting to life without Tony LaRussa and tonight, 21-year old RHP Henderson Alvarez makes his second MLB start.

Alvarez is a righty who sat in the mid-90s in his debut against Oakland 5 days ago, touching 97. He appears to have two fastballs, a change and a slider, but he’s not a swing-and-miss pitcher – he’s a ground ball guy. He maintained 50%+ rates at every stop in the minors, which, combined with low walk rates, helped him work around the fact that he doesn’t miss bats. Good velocity and an amazingly easy entry into the majors (Oakland, then Seattle away?) have helped him, but he’s not a good MLB player yet. He had a tRA in AA of over 4, and he got 5 swinging strikes in over 100 pitches against a terrible A’s offense in his first start. He has no business shutting out an M’s line-up that just acquitted themselves quite well against the Boston Red Sox. And yes, I now almost expect that he will.

1: Ichiro
2: Gutierrez
3: Ackley
4: Carp
5: Wells (DH)
6: Olivo
7: Robinson
8: Seager
9: Wilson

Other notes:
* Carter Capps makes his M’s system debut tonight for Clinton in the Midwest League.
* The Detroit Tigers acquired Delmon Young from Minnesota to shore up their corner OF situation, a situation they caused/exacerbated by trading Casper Wells to the M’s. No take-backs.
* The Rainiers close out a 4-game series at home against the Iowa Cubs, led by slugging 1B Bryan LaHair (who broke up Erasmo Ramirez’s shot at a CG shut-out last night with a 9th inning homer).
* Nick Franklin’s working his way back into game shape, playing in the Arizona League. Unfortunately, he went 0-5 with 4 Ks and two fielding errors today. Patience.
* The aforementioned Erasmo Ramirez had his best outing with the Rainiers last night, going 8 1/3 IP of 1 R, 7 H, 0 BB, 11 K ball against Iowa. He really struggled near the end of his tenure with Jackson, but this is still a great year for him. He sat at 94 for much of the game, and while he’s not been very consistent, I will call Henderson Alvarez a poor man’s Erasmo Ramirez for however long the former’s in the league.

Comments

102 Responses to “Game 120 – Blue Jays at Mariners”

  1. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 5:20 pm

    Marc have you seen anything on the M’s taking Ruffin as the PTBNL in the Fister trade? MLB Rumors has him listed as an M’s transaction today. I posted the link in the comment section. I think he is the guy that was rumored we were taking earlier.

  2. jordan on August 15th, 2011 6:25 pm

    Reportedly Jason Vargas and Adam Kennedy both cleared waivers. I don’t think I fully understand the waiver wire rules, but I find that hard to believe nobody would have claimed Vargas.

    Anybody know why nobody would claim him?

  3. Ichirolling51 on August 15th, 2011 6:36 pm

    Any word on Hultzen? I would almost prefer that we don’t sign him, and use that money to ink Cron. I didn’t like that pick then, and I don’t like it now. He projects out to be a #3 at best, and with the #3 pick you would want that player to be elite, and Hultzen is anything but. We can get way more value with the #3 pick in next years draft, plus the other top 10 pick we will surely receive. Hultzen just seems like a low risk, low reward pick. And if it’s true that he is asking for $10-13M then he can just shove it, we’d be better off trying to sign Cron.

  4. jordan on August 15th, 2011 6:45 pm

    I almost agree with Ichirolling. I mean, I’m higher on Hultzen than most, but I would only go as high as $9M. He is almost asking for as much as Strasburg got last year, and he isn’t half the prospect Strasburg was/is.

    I think we could have got better value with our second pick, but I didn’t totally hate it, but if he wants that kind of money I can’t justify giving him that much.

    But from what I have heard, he is close to signing.

  5. Sports on a Schtick on August 15th, 2011 6:48 pm

    I don’t think any of us loved the Hultzen pick but there’s no way we don’t want to him to sign or he’s a #3 starter at best.

    So far this month the M’s offense has averaged 4.25 runs per game. Not embarrassing!

  6. Paul B on August 15th, 2011 7:19 pm

    Little control problem so far.

    Too many pitches in the first, but he was really dealing after the homer.

  7. Paul B on August 15th, 2011 7:27 pm

    Ichiro hit one down the line that was an inch from being identicalto Guti’s double.

  8. juneau_fan on August 15th, 2011 7:45 pm

    I love these kids. So much better than watching the likes of Cust huff and puff to first.

  9. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 8:02 pm

    So should we effectively concede ROY to Hellickson now? I’m not freaking out about Pineda but is it ok to say I really don’t like his last month or so?

  10. jordan on August 15th, 2011 8:04 pm

    I think the M’s need to work the waiver wire to acquire a decently effective SP so we can shut down Pineda. He just hasn’t been effective in his past 5-7 or so starts. I think he is getting worn down and I don’t want to get our stud prospect injured.

  11. ChrisHatch52 on August 15th, 2011 8:07 pm

    Ya carp.

  12. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 8:07 pm

    Fish!!!

  13. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:08 pm

    I think the M’s need to work the waiver wire to acquire a decently effective SP so we can shut down Pineda. He just hasn’t been effective in his past 5-7 or so starts. I think he is getting worn down and I don’t want to get our stud prospect injured.

    Agree, maybe Kevin Millwood or Nate Robertson…

  14. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 8:11 pm

    Instead of waiver wire, why not just bring up someone who’s earned some time?

  15. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:12 pm

    Apparently we found a DH for 2012, now we just need a catcher, 3rd baseman, Jack Z will spend big there… I hope

  16. jordan on August 15th, 2011 8:13 pm

    Yeah, OK. Lets bring up someone who has earned some time.

    Go find me a starting pitcher who has done that within our system.

  17. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 8:14 pm

    Goddamit michael

  18. juneau_fan on August 15th, 2011 8:15 pm

    Figgins is still on the team, isn’t he? I can’t remember the last time he played.

  19. Liam on August 15th, 2011 8:16 pm

    Figgins is on the 15-Day DL.

  20. jordan on August 15th, 2011 8:17 pm

    As much as we need a catcher… everyone else does too. There is a major drought of catching talent in or around the MLB right now. Good luck finding someone effective.

    Positions that could use an upgrade that are probably easily upgradeable are LF, 3B, and SS. I think we are stuck with Olivo for now. Z has done a great job of stock piling OF talent so I think LF will solve itself. The one thing that bothers me is trusting Smoak to be our 1B. He hasn’t shown me much outside of the hotstreak to start the year.

    Oh.. and holy blown call batman.

  21. SODOMOJO360 on August 15th, 2011 8:18 pm

    So the ump can see right through Ackley? He was blocking the play, ump couldn’t see hand on base, bullshit call

  22. SODOMOJO360 on August 15th, 2011 8:21 pm

    I think the M’s need to work the waiver wire to acquire a decently effective SP so we can shut down Pineda. He just hasn’t been effective in his past 5-7 or so starts. I think he is getting worn down and I don’t want to get our stud prospect injured.

    He’s not worn down. Throwing 96-97 still. Just bad placement and does not have an out pitch to Lefty hitters. He’s a rookie, there’s a learning curve.

  23. jordan on August 15th, 2011 8:24 pm

    Me, being a former collegiate pitcher, can say that when I was tired or overworked, I was still throwing at the same velocity. It was the location that I lost. I could always seem to dig down deeper and throw it hard, but it wasn’t located as well as it should be. It was a feeling that something was just missing.

    I’m not pretending to know what Pineda is dealing with or doing, I’m just saying the velocity doesn’t neccasarily mean he is fine.

  24. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:27 pm

    Just saw the 2012 3rd base market and it´s awful, the best in the market: Betemit/Tejada, maybe we´ll trade for some 3rd baseman

  25. Sports on a Schtick on August 15th, 2011 8:36 pm

    Positions that could use an upgrade that are probably easily upgradeable are LF, 3B, and SS.

    I think Wells or Robinson will work out in left. Odd man out can spell Guti and Ichiro. And of course behind them are Halman, Saunders and Wily Mo. Maybe not huge talent in LF but a lot of depth and intrigue between those guys.

    Ryan is pretty cheap and a great glove. I expect him to be entrenched at short.

    Third base??? It looks pretty bad. Not really sure what the answer is here. Rendon would’ve fit in so nicely in 2012…

    But alas! Home stretch for the draft picks. If we sign Cron I’ll consider that a bonus.

  26. jordan on August 15th, 2011 8:37 pm

    we got 25 minutes to sign our guys. Do you guys hope we sign Hultzen? I would almost rather have Cron than Hultzen.

  27. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:40 pm

    We´ll sign Hultzen, Miller and Cohoes, i´m pretty sure, Cron doubtful…

  28. Sports on a Schtick on August 15th, 2011 8:43 pm

    I think everyone at Baseball America has blood pouring out of their eyes now trying to report on the flurry of signings. Well done MLB for your archaic stance on slotting.

    Looks like Brad Miller is signed.

  29. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:44 pm

    And looks like Cohoes won´t sign :(

  30. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:44 pm

    And looks like Cohoes won´t sign :(

  31. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:46 pm

    If Hultzen doesn´t sign, we´ll have the third and the fourth pick in the next draft…

  32. jordan on August 15th, 2011 8:48 pm

    Where are you hearing Cohoes wont sign? I really wanted him.

  33. lalo on August 15th, 2011 8:50 pm

    Where are you hearing Cohoes wont sign? I really wanted him.

    Twitter, some guy said Cohoes signed with a college team, i really hope that is not true…

  34. Sports on a Schtick on August 15th, 2011 9:00 pm

    And now we wait for the ticker! This is so absurd. Over twenty first rounders still unannounced.

  35. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:02 pm

    …and we wait… i wonder how long till all the signings are announced

  36. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:02 pm

    Cole signing just announced

  37. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:05 pm

    Lindor and Bundy both signed as well.

  38. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:06 pm

    Starling and Purke too, no word on Hultzen…

  39. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:07 pm

    Starting to look like he might not have signed. But who knows since the M’s play everything so close to their chest.

  40. Sports on a Schtick on August 15th, 2011 9:09 pm

    It does appear Hultzen didn’t sign. Churchill says Francisco Lindor got under $3 million. Josh Bell signs with the Pirates for $5 million.

    Craziness.

  41. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:09 pm

    Hultzen signed!! 8.5M

  42. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:09 pm

    Hulten signed. IDK if I care.

  43. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:09 pm

    Just said hultzen signed

  44. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:11 pm

    hultzen got $6.35M bonus, $8.5M guaranteed. max value $10.6M

  45. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:13 pm

    Wait, Cole got $8M? Hultzen got $8.5? Whats wrong with this picture?

  46. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:18 pm

    So we got the most expensive player in the Draft…

  47. PinedaExpress on August 15th, 2011 9:23 pm

    It’s not your money, why do you care?

    I remember a couple years back people didn’t like the Walker draft pick either. Z’s done well with his picks, if he thinks Hultzen is his guy, then why not trust him?

  48. Sports on a Schtick on August 15th, 2011 9:26 pm

    High price but Rendon got about the same value, Dylan Bundy got a big league deal and Bubba Sterling is getting $7.5M for three years. Just crazy stuff all around.

    And we got Cohoes!! Whoo!

  49. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:27 pm

    Cohoes signed , good news, and yes, it´s not my money, it was only a comment PinedaExpress, no need to be a jerk…

  50. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:31 pm

    It kind of is the fans money, actually. That is less money that we can spend on other players to make a winner of Seattle. And since I go to 5-10 games a year and many other people do too, yeah it sort of is our money.

  51. Liam on August 15th, 2011 9:31 pm

    Whats wrong with this picture?

    Absolutely nothing. It’s not like the Mariners can call up the Pirates/Scott Boras and ask what numbers are being exchanged on Gerrit Cole. (And a lower overall pick signing for more money than a higher pick is nothing new)

  52. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:35 pm

    Carpe Deja Diem Vu!!!

    Looking great, Mikey… Way to go.

  53. NateTheGreat on August 15th, 2011 9:35 pm

    Carp has just been incredible!!

  54. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 9:35 pm

    Im loving some seafood

  55. EricL on August 15th, 2011 9:36 pm

    Mariner twitter account says the M’s signed 43 of their 51 picks. I haven’t seen anything about Cron, so I’m assuming he didn’t sign.

    And I love watching Carp these days… He’s just killing the ball.

  56. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:37 pm

    Mike Carp could be the rookie of the year, the guy is awesome right now…

  57. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:37 pm

    I’m not talking about where they were picked. Cole is a more highly regarded pitcher than Hultzen. Hultzen is about 75% the prospect Cole is.

    With that said, I do trust Z and think he knows what he is doing when it comes to player evaluation. I just think he could have had him cheaper.

  58. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:38 pm

    What has gotten into Carp? I know he cant be THIS good, but do we have ourselfs a DH of the future… Edgar-esque

  59. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 9:39 pm

    Casper the friendly outfielder!

  60. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:39 pm

    This is cool– what do they call it when guys hit the ball over the wall like that? I’ve never seen it before.

  61. Shawnuel on August 15th, 2011 9:39 pm

    WELLS!!!!!!!!

  62. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:39 pm

    Wells is on fire too!!!

  63. juneau_fan on August 15th, 2011 9:39 pm

    What was Detroit thinking?

  64. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:39 pm

    #Mariners signed 2nd-rder Brad Miller for $750k. #mlbdraft

    from callis

  65. Shawnuel on August 15th, 2011 9:40 pm

    Dumbass, Olivo!

  66. juneau_fan on August 15th, 2011 9:42 pm

    I’m losing patience with Olivo. He could have been home right now.

  67. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:43 pm

    Hultzen is about 75% the prospect Cole is.

    Pretty sure that’s an exaggeration. Most scouts have Hultzen hitting the majors sooner, and he’s had a better college career. He may not photograph as well, or have as much hype, but he already knows how to pitch, instead of throw… I’d rather have Hultzen than Cole, myself.

  68. NateTheGreat on August 15th, 2011 9:43 pm

    I know its still early but Casper is looking more than capable to be our left fielder next year maybe our right fielder down the road a bit if/when Ichiro is gone with that strong throwing arm of his.

  69. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 9:45 pm

    I believe that all mariners fans need to send a thank you card to both Ned Colletti and Dave Dombrowski

  70. jordan on August 15th, 2011 9:46 pm

    Chris Ray got released.

  71. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:48 pm

    Chris Ray is gone, to clear spot for Hultzen, good bye Chris Ray…

  72. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:49 pm

    NateTheGreat-
    If these guys continue to play like this, I’m thinking we have our outfield set for 2012… Wells, Guty, Ichiro, Robinson (or other 4th OF) and Carp (if we ever should need him).

    Might allow us to throw some bigger money at 3B, a starter, and maybe SS… Jose Reyes? (I kid…)

    Mr. Figgins should get comfortable with the title “9 Million Dollar Utility Guy”.

  73. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:50 pm

    RT @johnmanuelba: #Mariners have signed 9th-rder Cavan Cohoes, still chasing bonus, hearing 7 figures for athletic military brat #mlbdraft

  74. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:50 pm

    Edgar-

    I believe that all mariners fans need to send a thank you card to both Ned Colletti and Dave Dombrowski

    Just as a common courtesy, we should probably wait to hear which of Detroit’s draft picks they just gave us too as the PTBNL… (Should be announced any day now)

  75. lalo on August 15th, 2011 9:51 pm

    Looks like League gained some miles, nothing below 98!

  76. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:52 pm

    Do we spend $100mill for fielder and look for someone a little cheaper at 3rd?

  77. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:53 pm

    MrZ I posted it the 1st post of the site. He is on the transaction list already.

  78. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:53 pm

    Auggey-
    Hard to say, if Carp is anywhere near what he’s been showing, do we need Fielder? Or do we wait a year and go after someone when Ichiro’s contract comes off the books?

  79. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:55 pm

    I am not sold on $100 mill will be interesting to see what Z does.

  80. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 9:57 pm
  81. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 9:59 pm

    Auggey-
    Chance Ruffin… hmmm. I guess that’s cool. Not what I was hoping for, but makes more sense…

  82. Edgar4Hall on August 15th, 2011 10:00 pm

    MrZ I like that idea. We don’t need fielder especially if Smoak recovers. Remember it’s been his thumbs holding him back not a loss in hitting prowess. Is there a way we could spend for someone like reyes (we really don’t have a Leadoff type when Ichiro retires) and then move him or Ryan to third.

  83. jordan on August 15th, 2011 10:01 pm

    That can’t be 100% trusted simply because Ruffin isn’t even eligable to be traded till tomorrow.

  84. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 10:04 pm

    Mariners have been fun to watch this past week… I’m not sensing the same frustration between what I want them to be, and what they truly are, that’s haunted us all the past couple years. They’re not the best baseball team in the league, granted, but they’re able to translate their talent to the field right now.

    I’ll take it. And hope for more.

  85. lalo on August 15th, 2011 10:05 pm

    Ruffin is the most likely, but at the end, Z have a list with three names, and he will choose one of them, maybe Ruffin, or Smyly or Brantly, we don´t know, Ruffin as Smyly and Brantly is playing in the Tigers system

  86. jordan on August 15th, 2011 10:08 pm

    Wasn’t Ruffin just called up to the Tigers this week? I doubt they would call up someone they were about to trade. I don’t know though. We will find out I guess. I want Smyly but can’t be TOOOO upset with Ruffin.

  87. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 10:08 pm

    I just dug a little deeper and it says they are not sure now. I did not think he could be traded, but MLB Rumors put it on the tracker as a transaction. I guess we will see tomorrow.

    If Smoak was/is hurting from the thumb injuries and can hit like he did in mid season, he will be fine. i wonder if it could have been part of the grieving process over his Dad, and it hit him later. If so he could have had a let down with that too.

  88. lalo on August 15th, 2011 10:11 pm

    Interesting quote from Jack Z, looks like Hultzen could be with the M´s in 2012

    Hultzen will be in big league spring training next year. Zduriencik: “Hey, we’ll give Danny a shot right off the bat to see what he can do, if he can make the big league club or not.”

    Felix
    Pineda
    Vargas
    Beavan/Furbush/Paxton
    Hultzen

  89. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 10:12 pm

    If Ruffin was called up, it could make sense, and may be tied to the Chris Ray release tonight by the M’s… Meaning Ruffin becomes a Mariner tomorrow… (Makes more sense than Hultzen– who is supposedly set to finish his degree this fall before playing baseball again).

    So the puzzle pieces actually kinda fit for Ruffin. Or not, hard to say, I guess…

  90. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 10:14 pm

    Ruffin is on the 40 man roster with an * that says he is not on the active roster.

    Tomorrow we should find out.

  91. lalo on August 15th, 2011 10:16 pm

    I think he wasn´t called up, he threw one inning today for Toledo AAA, Ray was released because of Hultzen´s major league contract, so , we´ll see who is the PTBNL, but agree, probably Ruffin

  92. Auggeydog on August 15th, 2011 10:16 pm

    Ray was released because Hultzen signed an MLB contract that puts him on the 40 man roster.

  93. Westside guy on August 15th, 2011 10:23 pm

    I am really hoping the Mariners do not sign SexsonFielder.

  94. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 10:23 pm

    Aw… Didn’t realize Hultzen’s was a MLB contract… So looks like he IS on the fast track to Spring Training…

    Cool.

  95. MrZDevotee on August 15th, 2011 10:26 pm

    Westy-
    My version:

    I am really hoping the Mariners do not sign Sexson Vlad Bay Fielder anyone over $10 million/year.

  96. Ichirolling51 on August 15th, 2011 10:28 pm

    Auggey-Hard to say, if Carp is anywhere near what he’s been showing, do we need Fielder? Or do we wait a year and go after someone when Ichiro’s contract comes off the books?

    Smoak to 3B, Carp to 1B, Fielder to DH? Doesn’t do much for the defense, but the offense is like a wet dream, compared to the last couple of seasons….

  97. rsrobinson on August 15th, 2011 10:33 pm

    Between Wells, Robinson, and Carp I feel a lot better about future production from LF than I did a month ago. Carp may not be able to continue at the pace he’s on but he looks like a legit MLB hitter and could be the solution to our DH problems.

  98. eponymous coward on August 15th, 2011 10:42 pm

    Smoak to 3B, Carp to 1B, Fielder to DH? Doesn’t do much for the defense, but the offense is like a wet dream, compared to the last couple of seasons….

    You’re going to send someone to 3B who’s never played a day at the position in professional baseball, and who’s coming off a horrific couple of months of struggling at the plate?

    Talk about tossing a drowning man an anchor…

    Anyways, Carp isn’t this good, but between Smoak/Carp/Robinson/Wells/Peguero/etc., I am not thinking the DH/1B/LF nexus should be the team priority. I’m on record: figure out an answer at 3B, add a catcher who can push Olivo to backup status, depth at SP so it’s Furbush/Beavan fighting for a spot, maybe an infielder to back up Ryan/Ackley, and the team is actually not that bad, especially if Ichiro and Guti come back to being a 5-7 WAR pair of OFers instead of being replacement level.

    None of what I mentioned automatically means “sign a FA”- we didn’t have to sign a FA to get Wells, Robinson or Cliff Lee, did we? It just strikes me that as long as Jack has enough salary flexibility to not have to do Large Item Pickup Day, and we can address the very obvious holes in the roster, we’ll be OK.

  99. henryv on August 15th, 2011 11:01 pm

    Smoak to 3B, Carp to 1B, Fielder to DH? Doesn’t do much for the defense, but the offense is like a wet dream, compared to the last couple of seasons….

    Justin Smoak hasn’t played a moment outside of first base in his whole professional baseball career. And his nose says that he’s probably not the right type of person for 3B.

    Mike Carp has played all of 12 games in low-A at 3B, but has played LF/RF.

    Something has to give with the OF between Tacoma and Seattle. Given that we really need a 3B, C, another SP (probably) and some RP help (if cheap).

    Between Halman, Guti(?), Robinson, Peguero, Wells, Carp, Saunders, and Wilson we have 2 starting spots and one bench spot.

    Oh, and on top of that AA has a handful of quality OF that are going to need spots in Tacoma tomorrow.

    And I still want to try at Fielder. See if you can get him for 4/$80. But that 6/$150 is pretty scary.

  100. henryv on August 15th, 2011 11:02 pm

    Wow, EC and I nearly wrote identical posts.

  101. gwangung on August 15th, 2011 11:04 pm

    See if you can get him for 4/$80.

    Dude, I think a LOT of us would take Fielder at those terms. Way fewer at longer lengths….

  102. henryv on August 15th, 2011 11:28 pm

    Dude, I think a LOT of us would take Fielder at those terms. Way fewer at longer lengths.

    Sadly I think that he is going to get that 6/$150. And I don’t think it will be with the M’s.

    But he seems so perfect for the M’s.

    Feels like Jim Thome all over again.

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