Cactus League Game 22: White Sox at Mariners
Want to know what the Mariners Opening Day line-up is going to look like? Just look at today’s. With the club leaving for Japan tomorrow afternoon, Wedge has decided to roll out his starting nine for today’s game against the White Sox, and you can make a pretty safe bet that this is the line-up that will take the field against the A’s next week.
Figgins, 3B
Ackley, 2B
Ichiro, RF
Smoak, 1B
Montero, DH
Carp, LF
Olivo, C
Saunders, CF
Ryan, SS
Hernandez, P
If you were wondering if Kyle Seager’s power surge down in Peoria had won him the third base job, you’ve got your answer. He’s probably played himself into more playing time than he might have had otherwise, but the team is apparently committed to the Figgins experiment, and with Saunders also having a strong spring, third base was the only spot for him to play. So, for now, Saunders plays and Seager sits.
My guess is that those two are going to end up splitting time, with Figgins bouncing between 3B and CF for the first few weeks of the year. And, if Figgins is bad, he won’t hold onto a regular job for very long.
We know that Seager, Kawasaki, and Jaso are going to make up 75% of the bench. We don’t yet know who the last guy is going to be. Casper Wells hasn’t had a very good spring, and there’s been some rumblings that he might begin the season in Triple-A. If Wedge sees Figgins as the guy who is going to split time with Saunders in CF, then he could justify not carrying Wells and keeping Carlos Peguero, his favorite pet toy. It’s a lousy idea, since Peguero is bad and any playing time he’d be given would come at the expense of a better player, but it sounds like it’s still a possibility. Both Wells and Peguero are likely to make the trip to Japan, and my guess is that they won’t finalize that roster spot until they have to.
Update: Shawn Camp has been released. Looks like Steve Delebar or Erasmo Ramirez might have beat him out for a job, or this could be an indication that they’re going to use Iwakuma in the bullpen. More to come.
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31 Responses to “Cactus League Game 22: White Sox at Mariners”
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My theory is that it is hot in Arizona and Peguero provides a nice cooling breeze. Is it hot in Japan right now?
The Peguero fetish is soooo weird.
I agree – yet a lot of people seem to share it.
That, in itself, is a bit depressing.
Dingers. Pure and simple. Chicks dig the long ball, and so do guys, apparently.
If there’s anybody who has really played themselves out of deserving a roster spot, it’s Olivo, in my opinion. I’d honestly rather have Peguero in the lineup. Olivo has been nothing short of terrible all spring.
Question about Peguero — when I’ve had a chance to watch this spring, he’s done some good things. I’ve seen him draw 2 walks and throw out a runner in very limited time. And he’s leading the team in HRs and RBI.
None of which makes him a good player, or even a major leaguer. But my question for those firmly in the “Peguero Sux!” camp is, have you seen anything this spring that gives you any hope that he may someday suck less horribly that he does now? Or that he may even someday develop into a major leaguer? Thanks.
The Peguero fetish is soooo weird.
Maybe Eric Wedge feels like he’s been a 6’5″ slugging outfielder in a catcher’s body all these years, and he’s determined to vault Carlos Peguero into the chance he never had.
I really can’t fathom this, and I like home runs. But I also know Wells is the better player.
I keep seeing reports where its said that Olivo is Montero’s mentor. Teaching him the ins and outs on how he rose to be one of worst defensive catchers in the major leagues.
Casper Wells has had a terrible spring, if the competition has been Peguero, Peggy has won it hands down. Peguero can improve, can’t he?
Peguero can improve, can’t he?
You’re not going to get a rational, fair response to that question on Mariner blogs. 😉
Seriously, though, what should trump any opinions on Peguero’s usefulness or ceiling, is roster flexibility. The corpse of Figgins is clogging the 25-man roster enough as it is, so other positions need to have multiple ways to contribute. Wells can play multiple outfield positions. Peguero can only play left field, far as I know, and only if you’re not a stickler for good-looking routes to the ball.
As 4th outfielders go, the one with more defensive flexibility (especially since CF is the biggest hole at the moment) should be handed the job outright.
Sure, Wells hasn’t hit well in a few dozen PAs this spring, but there’s no reason to ignore the thousands of PAs that both have had BEFORE the spring of 2012. That data reveals Peguero to have massive contact issues that continue to prevent him from making positive contributions at the MLB level.
Wells has been a solid if unspectacular player in the minors and was solid if unspectacular in the majors. It’s going to take more than a bad spring to change how we rank these two players.
All of that said, the M’s probably don’t need Wells on the roster if Figgins is going to get time in CF. Saunders starts, Figgins gets some time, and then, sometime soon (I hope), Gutierrez returns. I’d think they’d want a righty bat for the corners, so he’s still got a chance, but some part of his value’s tied up with his ability to play CF – and that’s not what the M’s need right now.
Even if you think Peguero can improve, I have no idea why they’d make him the 25th man on this roster. The fact that he hits lefty actually hurts, as he can’t very well pinch hit for Carp when the opponent brings in a LOOGY. Montero and Smoak are both switch hitters.
If there’s anybody who has really played themselves out of deserving a roster spot, it’s Olivo, in my opinion. I’d honestly rather have Peguero in the lineup. Olivo has been nothing short of terrible all spring.
Olivo, like Millwood, fills that veteran-y veteran leadership intangibles grit factor, though. They’ve stuck with him this far, even after all the passed balls and strikeouts and “was that ball 4 that just went by? I suppose I should go to first base”.
“You’re not going to get a rational, fair response to that question on Mariner blogs. ;)”
OK, honestly? He can. I don’t hate the free-swinging slugging type as a rule; it’s a lottery ticket, and despite DINGERS, you’ve got to keep in mind the miniscule odds.
Alex Liddi’s apparently changed his swing some and become a more complete hitter. At least that’s what we’ve heard; it’ll be interesting to see what kind of numbers he puts up this season. Liddi had similar problems (though not to the same degree), so if he can improve, so can Peguero.
The w big issues are: how would Peguero improve if he was on the bench in Seattle, and how much improvement does he need to make to become a contributing player in MLB? To me, it seems clear that the answers are “he can’t” and “a hell of a lot.”
Saunders starts, Figgins gets some time, and then, sometime soon (I hope), Gutierrez returns.
I thought the ETA for Guti was at least late May? I.e. heal up completely, then basically go through his own little spring training all over again since he got hurt in like the 2nd split squad game of the spring or something.
So a Saunders / Figgins job share would need to go on for at least a third of the season. Hopefully by end of May Figgins will tank and get DFA’d, but roster assumptions built on praying for failures can’t be a good thing.
If anyone deserves making the team and some playing time based on a great spring, it’s not Peguero. It’s my man Alex Liddi.
The w big issues are: how would Peguero improve if he was on the bench in Seattle, and how much improvement does he need to make to become a contributing player in MLB? To me, it seems clear that the answers are “he can’t” and “a hell of a lot.”
Oh, to me too. There isn’t an argument to be made yet that Peguero needs ML opponents or regular ML playing time to learn anything new. All his issues with plate discipline / strike zone recognition (and perhaps a smidge of recognizing breaking balls…) can be worked on in the minors.
Why would you pick a LH 4th outfielder when your starting OF are all LH? Wells could be used for a defensive replacement for Carp, or for a pinch-hitter vs. LHP for Saunders. Peguero can do neither of those. It makes no sense, and I have to think logic prevails in the end and Wells makes the roster instead.
I keep seeing reports where its said that Olivo is Montero’s mentor. Teaching him the ins and outs on how he rose to be one of worst defensive catchers in the major leagues.
It seems a little stupid, but its often the less talented players, or journeymen that make the best coaches. A natural talent at catcher probably never had to think about footwork, or blocking the ball, or a lot of other things that a less talented catcher has to spend a lot of time on.
Check out the post at lookout landing where Wilhelmsen asks Felix to help him with his changeup:
Felix just has too much natural talent to ever be a decent pitching coach.
Now I would totally agree Olivo should STFU about hitting because Olivo hasn’t shown any indication that he grasps the concept of not swinging at bad pitches, but I am open to the idea the Olivo knows a lot about catching, and can pass that on, but he just isn’t very good at it himself.
Peguero is the same side of the coin as Olivo. I think they are both evidence of a fault in Wedge’s decision making.
Wedge may give Olivo bonus points for veteran grittiness, but my guess is that Wedge overvalues dingers and undervalues OBP.
Spring training stats are not predictive, of course, but Peguero has 13 K’s and 2 walks, and Olivo has 7 K’s and 2 walks. These are in line with career numbers (Olivo 6.5 K’s per walk, Peguero 6.75 K’s per walk last year in Seattle, 5.5 K’s per walk in AAA). So neither Olivo or Peguero appears to have suddenly figured out the strike zone.
Peguero has 4 homers this spring, but once the season starts Major League pitchers will just stop throwing him strikes.
Hate hate hate. Figgins is a steaming pile of garbage. This team of geniuses needs to accept that and move on and stop trying to squeeze value out of nothing. Play your young guys and let them improve. If you’re Seager, you’ve got to be planning to get out of Seattle at the first possible opportunity to head to a club that actually plays its better players.
Figgins should be released. Olivo should be released. There’s no good reason for keeping AA level scrubs around unless they are actually young enough to be at AA.
As a followup, Olivo lead the AL in K/BB last year among hitters that played enough to qualify for rate stats. He was 10th among all batters.
Peguero was 12th in the league among all batters (Greg Halman was first, Trayvon Robinson was 7th, Mike Wilson was 11th).
So, the Mariners had 5 in the top 12.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2011-ratio-batting.shtml
After that, the next M was Liddi at 22nd.
Ichiro bomb in the 1st! Followed by Smoak 2B and an RBI single by Montero.
Please be good, Justin Smoak.
It will be interesting to see Ichiro’s stats, since he’ll be hitting after people who actually get on base some of the time.
It’d be funny if he gets a lot of RBIs and runs (which his other numbers staying the same), and the writers start bleating crap about how he’s a better hitter in the three hole.
Would be nice to see Carp finish spring on a good note. He could be the odd man out (as a starter) when Guti returns if Saunders continues to hit well.
Damn, didn’t mean to jinx him!
Wish we could have seen that fake-out!
Liddi has really impressed me this spring. I didn’t have much hope for him in the offseason, but he’s shown a lot of improvement at the plate this spring. Far more than consistent than Peguero.
Absolutely. Wish we could actually SEE more of his new swing/approach/whatever, but the numbers are great (as are the quotes from management).
Hope he gets plenty of time at 3B in Tacoma this year.
Nice work by Furbush getting out of a jam.
Vinnie!
Kawasaki now tied for RBI’s with Montero?!
Another XBH for Alex Liddi.
On the other side of the ledger, I’m interested to see how Chance Ruffin does this season. He’s not going to be on the opening day roster, and he’s not exactly blowing away the minor leaguers and bench players he’s faced.
Yeah, Ruffin hasn’t done much. He had one good inning before getting lit-up. I actually thought he had a good chance at making the club coming into spring. Hopefully he can iron things out in Tacoma.
I’m hopeful Liddi gets significant starts at 3rd too. He hasn’t looked real comfortable at 1st. Maybe Vinnie will split time in left field? Probably better they just keep him in one place.
And then there’s Martinez. I remember you mentioning before that AA might be a better place for him start, due to the log-jam at 3rd. That seems more and more like a good idea.