Game 35, Mariners at Yankees

Dave · May 12, 2012 at 11:45 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Noesi vs Hughes, 1:05 pm.

After his awful performance at the plate yesterday, you had to assume Brendan Ryan was going to be on the bench today. His bases loaded strikeout against Hiroki Kuroda was a disaster, not just because of the result but because of the pitches he decided to swing at. The final two swinging strikes were so far outside they probably would have hit a left-handed batter. Had he just gone up there with the bat on his shoulder, he very well might have drawn a walk. It was the kind of at-bat that gets you benched.

Of course, you could put together a pretty strong case that Ryan should have never been put in the #2 spot in the line-up to begin with, but I’d imagine those days are behind us, and we can probably just move on without complaining about another Eric Wedge decision that backfired. In fact, Wedge might just be running out his best line-up of the season today, as he’s gotten over his too-many-lefties-bunched-together phobia and promoted John Jaso to fill the #2 spot in the order. Given the current roster, this might be the exact line-up I’d run out there against a righty, minus swapping Ryan back in at short for Kawasaki. Let’s see more of this 1-8 line-up, please.

Ackley, 2B
Jaso, C
Ichiro, RF
Montero, DH
Seager, 3B
Carp, LF
Smoak, 1B
Saunders, CF
Kawasaki, SS


50 Responses to “Game 35, Mariners at Yankees”

  1. Mariners35 on May 12th, 2012 12:01 pm

    You’re actually ok with Carp in left? I thought the consensus opinion was that his defense was at Ibanez levels.

  2. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 12:14 pm

    What other left-hander is there to put in left, Mariners35? I would guess the improvement you’d get putting Wells in the field would be countered by the expected drop-off at the plate, since Wells is a righty.

  3. JoshJones on May 12th, 2012 12:17 pm

    Careful mariners35 don’t call Dave out, he will take his ball and go home.

    It’s been echoed here for the past few weeks that Kaz should be given a shot over Ryan and apparently wedge is listening. Sorry DAVE.

    And despite the hate for Justin Smoak I would keep him in front of Montero until at least the All Star break. I’m not ready to say he isn’t a middle of the order bat. Still way to early to make such determinations. And unlike Dave I also believe in protection for hitters. Montero gives Smoak that.

  4. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 12:41 pm

    Given the choices available, I like Jaso in the #2 hole. He’s a decent OBP guy – much less likely to make an out than Ryan.

    Now personally, while I know order doesn’t matter THAT much – I’d be tempted to either move Saunders up ahead of Smoak (and maybe ahead of Carp as well), or put him at #9. I’d just as soon all the good* hitters (yeah, relatively speaking) were all in a row.

    *Condor isn’t really a good hitter, but on this team he’s currently one of the better performers. Wow, I just depressed myself…

  5. MrZDevotee on May 12th, 2012 12:57 pm

    Full appreciation and acknowledgement of your devotion to Saunders, but he’s probably where he needs to be in the lineup .228/.316/.436 (33 K’s in 101 AB’s).

    Which isn’t a knock. On a really good baseball team (speaking theoretically) Saunders would be a wonderful #8 batter… I’d rather see him continue on as a really wonderful #8 batter, and find the rest of our order, than make him a #6 or so hitter, and suddenly out of his comfort/abilities zone.

    I do believe Saunders can be successful, but his success often seems precariously balanced on the romantic balcony of a proverbial house of cards.

    AKA “Casa Tempered Expectations”.

  6. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 1:01 pm

    I am just hoping that Noesi does not have a game that results in the Yankee fans feeling a little bit better about the trade.

    Wedge used the word “dysfunctional” when describing the 3 lefties at the top of the lineup in regard to late game matchups during his pre game interview today. I think he probably forgot the lineup earlier in the week where the 5 through 1 hitters were all left handed. He mentioned no Guti with Ryan and Fiffins just not getting the job done, too.

  7. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 1:04 pm

    Except you’re looking at him in isolation, MrZ. On the Mariners he has the 4th highest OBP (#2 if you only look at “qualified” batters).

    On this team, he really is one of the better hitters.

    You can’t say he’s where he needs to be and trot out his numbers without looking at everyone else’s numbers as well.

  8. smb on May 12th, 2012 1:05 pm

    Shit, I could’ve sworn we lost yesterday with the best pitcher in the league on the mound because Ibanez was in the lineup for NY and hit a 3-R HR off him…maybe if we’d had Ibanez in LF last night, WE would have won…get Carp’s bat in the lineup, keep the light-hitting import in the infield if it allows us to bench Ryan for swinging blindly at balls way out of the strike zone. Works for me.

  9. jconrad on May 12th, 2012 1:10 pm

    Thanks JoshJones, I sometimes forget what a waste of time it is to wade into the muck of commentland. Good reminder to be more disciplined.

  10. Dave on May 12th, 2012 1:11 pm

    JoshJones won’t be joining us anymore. His stupidity isn’t worth sharing with the world.

  11. MrZDevotee on May 12th, 2012 1:12 pm

    But, actually, I can say that very thing if I don’t think he’ll put up those same numbers if he moves in the lineup– that’s my fear. He’s hard to figure out, is all I’m saying, and for some reason he seems to flourish in low expectation positions.

    I want to see him succeed, so I’d rather not move him up.

    Of course, all bets are off when Brendan Ryan is your everyday #2 hitter… I’d certainly rather see Saunders THERE than Ryan anymore this season.

    And really, I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about most of the time, anyways… *laugh* ie, I’m suddenly realizing I’m agreeing with Wedge’s lineup decision…

    So I change my mind. Move Saunders up.

  12. MrZDevotee on May 12th, 2012 1:18 pm

    Mr. Rodriguez helping the pitch count. (Nice job, Hector)

  13. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 1:20 pm

    I’m being optimistic and assuming the emotional fragility is a thing of the past, MrZ. 😀

    But as you say, maybe that’s not a good assumption.

  14. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 1:37 pm

    I think Josh ended up winning the triple crown of statistically in-accurate comments and was apparently acknowledged, accordingly. I don’t mind seeing Ryan sit when the occasion calls for it, but he is obviously their best shortstop and by the end of the year, his numbers will likely look a lot like the back of his baseball card. The rare start that Muni gets is hardly cause for calling anybody out and taking pokes at the moderator. I cant see what the vicarious thrill might be.

    How bout that RF fence. That HR would have Almost made it to the warning track in Safeco.

  15. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 1:41 pm

    ^^ Coming in here and going out of your way to insult the site owner isn’t particularly intelligent.

    Also, Raul is showing his career isn’t over yet (as I think Jeff Sullivan noted a day or two ago).

  16. TherzAlwaysHope on May 12th, 2012 1:42 pm

    Remind me, someone. Why is it that Ibanez is not a Mariner? Free agency?

  17. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 1:44 pm

    Any word on when Guti is supposed to start a rehab assignment? That plantar fasciitis is a bitch and it can last (on and off) for a loooong time

  18. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 1:46 pm

    BTW Mike, I hope it was clear I was just adding extra commentary in agreement with yours – NOT claiming you were insulting Dave. 😉

  19. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 1:46 pm

    Yes, Raul was a FA and left. The compensation pick used brought Steve Baron. Yeah, not a good trade off.

  20. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 1:49 pm

    Westy; I knew what you were doing. No need to clarify.

  21. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 1:51 pm

    Ibañez got a good multi-year contract from Philly, IIRC. He proceeded to start hitting at an amazingly torrid pace – but, by the time the second year came around, the beat writers were calling for him to be let go.

  22. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 2:07 pm

    Yep, that accurately summarized Raul’s Philly tenure. An unbelievably good year and then some hard times. I love Raul and his work ethic. Stays in shape. Represents himself and his team well. True professional. There is no real place for him on this team at his age and skill level, but I like the guy and it would have been perfect to have him in ’09, but then we would not have seen what should have been Juniors swan song. In comparison, Raul has had a ton more success at the tail end of his career than Griffey did. I think the “in shape” thing probably had a lot to do with it. Just conjecture, though.

  23. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 2:09 pm

    We need a three run bomb from Carp

  24. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 2:11 pm

    Tailing away and close enough .., apparently. That hurt.

  25. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 2:12 pm

    I agree with you, Mike, with regards to Ibañez. He offered enough value with the bat to compensate for the atrocious fielding (which in itself offered some comedic “value” – something FanGraphs refuses to acknowledge or attempt to quantify! The LL guys appreciated him for it, though).

    But I was happy the Mariners didn’t outbid Philly. A three year contract for a guy in his late 30s is not an intelligent decision, in most cases.

  26. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 2:20 pm

    And right on cue … Raul.

    I wonder what Griffey thinks whenever a 40 year old who had nowhere near his talent in their primes – hits a home run? A friend of mine has a son who plays for Sr in Bakersfield. Maybe I should ask the friends son.

  27. Double Suicide Squeeze on May 12th, 2012 2:36 pm

    Did Noesi forget which team he plays for? He’s throwing batting practice right now. Yuck…

  28. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 2:51 pm

    This time of year, I’m a bit of a casual fan. If it were nighttime, I’d tough this one out – but the sunshine is calling… I think I’m going to cut out on this game. See y’all later!

  29. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 2:55 pm

    I peeled off to check out a high school AAA game. Winner to State. It sure helps put into perspective – just how good major league players are. Even the bad ones

    I have a radio head set, though – so … Carp!


    Millwood tomorrow … Muted tiny woot

  30. Swungonandbelted on May 12th, 2012 3:05 pm

    “Very effective pitching by Noesi here in the 7th inning…”

    Too bad he gave up 5 runs earlier though, and this offense is what it is… which is inept at the moment….

  31. nvn8vbryce on May 12th, 2012 3:38 pm

    This time of year, I’m a bit of a casual fan.

    Can’t blame you there, especially when it’s the M’s and their ineptitude offense…

  32. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 3:38 pm

    Made it back just in time to see the non-homer by Carp.All that money for joke dimensions. Whatever. Yay Carp!

  33. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 3:40 pm

    Lose one here, Smoak!

  34. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 3:41 pm

    I meant “after” you hit it

  35. msfanmike on May 12th, 2012 3:45 pm

    Shit call to end the game. The ump screwed Saunders. Clearly not a strike.

  36. bookbook on May 12th, 2012 3:51 pm

    I’m fine with playing Ryan 5 times a week, but it shouldn’t be less than that unless the M’s are doing something crazy like giving Triunfel or Franklin a chance to see the majors before he goes back down to work on getting where he aspires to be.

  37. samregens on May 12th, 2012 4:34 pm

    Yankee Stadium is ridiculous.

  38. Marinerman1979 on May 12th, 2012 5:01 pm

    So much for that line-up

  39. Mariners35 on May 12th, 2012 7:15 pm

    Westside – Kind of late to respond; too nice a day to stay online and didn’t have a radio with me to listen to the game. I didn’t know Wells’ splits against lefties off the top of my head, so didn’t know if having him in there would be hideous. I’m not a fan of trotting out lefty-righty matchups by rote. But it’s entirely likely that there was no better overall option to run out there, and that Carp’s bat against a righty minus his defense was still greater overall contribution than could be had out of LF against that particular pitcher.

    And though he is no longer joining us, I’d say in response to dear departed JoshJones that no, asking an honest question isn’t ‘calling anyone out’. I’d seen enough here and elsewhere about Carp’s poor defense that I was legitimately wondering about favoring him out there.

    And catching up with the rest of the thread… it speaks more to how far the M’s have to go, than it does about Raul’s skills or longevity, that Raul circa 2008 (or even Raulso far this year) would be a significant contributor at DH for this year’s M’s.

    Lastly, I wonder if anyone else is head-scratching over the public calling-out that Wedge appeared to give Ryan according to an earlier Times article, spouting off all kinds of comments about Ryan’s discipline and execution at the plate, in terms that very easily could be applied to, for example, Olivo. Hopefully Ryan is not rapidly working his way into the Jack Wilson Memorial Doghouse…

  40. Westside guy on May 12th, 2012 7:54 pm

    Hey Mariners35,

    I just took a look at Wells’ splits – something I should have done *before* trotting that argument out. We’re talking about less than 400 plate appearances in the majors, but… he’s really not exhibiting any huge differential when facing lefties versus righties. Either way, his averages were similar and his OPS have been similar. And to top that off, his offensive numbers so far have been pretty comparable to Carp’s.

    So I’d like to say I was wrong – Wells could very well be a better option in left, no matter who they’re facing.

    Of course there’s another issue here – the team’s surfeit of 1B/DH types. That might be coming into play as well.

  41. mariner68 on May 13th, 2012 10:24 am

    I have noticed that Carp appears to be in even better shape than last year. He was always a 1B through his career, and I would have to say he gets a poorer jump on the ball than Ibanez used to, but isn’t it reasonable to expect him to be able to improve considerably in LF?

  42. Westside guy on May 13th, 2012 10:34 am

    I don’t think Carp’s inability to play well in left has ever been blamed on conditioning. Usually if a guy has consistently been a first baseman all the time, it’s because previous coaches and managers have recognized he doesn’t have the requisite skills to play a more demanding position.

    It’s not like there’s a surplus of good-hitting outfielders to pick from, and they need to figure out where to stick them all.

  43. mariner68 on May 13th, 2012 10:39 am

    He’s an interesting player, I know he was viewed as a 4A player for a long time, but he looks to have very good bat speed, better than say Nick Swisher, a similar type player who has been a solid contributer over the years.

  44. Westside guy on May 13th, 2012 10:42 am

    Hey, UZR makes an appearance in the official broadcast again!

    BTW mariner68, we may very well need Carp’s first base skills if Smoak doesn’t start to turn it around.

  45. stevemotivateir on May 13th, 2012 10:52 am

    It’s worth giving Carp more time in left. This really isn’t a contending year, so why not? Like Westy said, there isn’t exactly an abundance of outfielders anyway. I would like to see more of Wells, but there should be plenty of time between those two and Saunders (Wells getting some starts in center).

  46. mariner68 on May 13th, 2012 10:55 am

    I’m not sure what has happened to Smoak, I watched him play in Texas, and really loved his swing – a few home runs swings actually reminded me of Griffey! Now his swing seems long and slow, and he seems really lost on low off-speed pitches. I hope he isn’t the next Matt Laporta.

  47. msfanmike on May 13th, 2012 10:56 am

    Are “new game” threads on Sunday, a thing of the past?

    Nice DP by Liddi and Ackley to end that inning.

  48. stevemotivateir on May 13th, 2012 10:56 am

    I wonder when they’ll get an extension done with Ichiro. With Guti still having health issues, and the lack of inner-organizational depth, you’d think resigning Ichiro for at least another year, would be a priority.

  49. msfanmike on May 13th, 2012 10:58 am

    Jay has put up a thread for today

  50. mariner68 on May 13th, 2012 11:02 am

    Smoak has proven that he can handle lefties that throw 87! I think his last homer from the right side was a similar event.

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