Game 108, Mariners at Yankees
Kevin Millwood vs. CC Sabathia, 4:05pm
The M’s take the field tonight fighting for their 8th consecutive win overall and their 7th consecutive win against a lefty starter. CC Sabathia’s not throwing 95+ fastballs anymore, but he’s still a very effective pitcher – Fangraphs credits him with 3 WAR so far in 2012 while bbref gives him 2. One slight change he’s made in recent years is that he’s throwing his slider a lot more against right-handed batters. He still throws his change-up, but he throws the slider slightly more. Against lefties, he’s got an almost Josh Kinney-esque pattern of 52% sliders to 48% fastballs. This hasn’t really changed his platoon splits in any meaningful way – while they bounce around from year to year, he’s neither vulnerable against righties nor dominant against them.
Casper Wells gets a start in CF with Mike Saunders held out due to leg stiffness. That means that Eric Thames gets a start against a tough lefty; his MLB splits aren’t all that pretty, but it’s worth noting that Thames has all of 123 plate appearances against southpaws in his career. Of course, he had huge splits in his MiLB career too, so being labeling him/using him as a platoon player isn’t something the Blue Jays did out of spite.
1: Ackley
2: Wells (CF)
3: Seager
4: Montero (DH)
5: Carp
6: Olivo (c)
7: Thames (RF)
8: Robinson (LF)
9: Ryan
SP: Millwood
Victor Sanchez takes the hill for Everett tonight as the AquaSox host Salem-Keizer – that’s pretty obviously the most noteworthy game in the system tonight. Or at least, it would be if it weren’t for the fact that the Pulaski Mariners are battling the Princeton Rays in the 23rd inning right now. The game began last night and was suspended after 18 innings. Over an hour into the game today, and still no one’s scored.
The Rainiers are in action this evening at Cheney Stadium as Hector Noesi attempts to get his ERA back under 10. Yesterday’s loss to Oklahoma City marked the first time the Rainiers skipped Danny Hultzen’s spot in the rotation, using Andrew Carraway instead.
In Jackson, Matt Fox makes his second start since his rehab ended (notable that he went to AA instead of rejoining the Rainiers; Fox did not exactly light up the PCL this season).
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Our center fielders are cursed! Be careful, Casper!
You’re off by one, Marc. It’s game 108, isn’t it?
He’s way off, since everything reset after Ichiro was traded.
I sent a question to the booth – see if they answer it.
Last seven games:
Ackley is hitting .280
Montero is hitting .286
Olivo is hitting .273
Carp is hitting .400
Ryan is hitting .471
Yup, they’ve definitely been winning because Ichiro isn’t in the line-up.
Steve, are you guys still on track to be Brazil-bound next week?
He can’t go to work Monday
^haha, I’ve been so sick of that being repeated on 710. “Clearly, they’re a better team without him”. Right, because Peguero and Trayvon could do what he can’t? Idiots.
We’re off Wednesday, Westy. Got the final document we needed today.
Also:
Seager, last 7: .455
Saunders, last 7: .292
Now the Ichiro replacements:
Wells, last 7: .132
Peguero, last 7: .000 (WOW!)
FWIW Trayvon’s had 10 ABs and has hit .400
I know Trayvon hit well, but if he can, I’m certain Ichiro could also.
Texiera looks like he’s talking to himself.
Maybe he’s hiding a blue tooth ear-piece, secretly calling 1-900 numbers?
Wells obviously is going to hit much better than that – it’s just that his slump was ill-timed for the Ichiro haters.
Texiera: “What about the driver?” (Seinfeld reference)
Huh, ESPN has Carp at .400 not .458 for the last 7 games…
I found a lot of humor with fans demanding that Peguero be called-up. I doubt we’ll hear many more of those this season.
Well… at the time, the Peguero call-up didn’t particularly bug me. But man oh man, he showed that he’s learned NOTHING in the last 12 months.
2012 strikeout rate: 52% !!!!!
I thought Ford was more deserving, though it’s worth noting I didn’t expect much from him either. I wanted to see an outside source acquired. Z must have been listening;)
Trayvon vs. CC. Who needs UFC when we have match-ups like this?!
I don’t know that Millwood would’ve gotten Ichiro even if he’d fielded that cleanly.
The Yankees need another third base coach.
I’d suggest we offer then Datz.
Westy, et al.,
We’re not in the clubhouse, so we don’t know how things in there were before Ichiro was traded versus how things are now. I wouldn’t completely discount, however, that the trade may have lightened the mood in the clubhouse. We all knew that the team had to do something with him; you can be sure the players did too. Everyone here discounts the notion of “team chemistry”, but there are intangible things that can affect how a player might perform. If a player had a fight with his wife earlier in the day, it may very well affect his concentration at the plate. I think the feeling about what the team was going to do about Ichiro could have a similar effect. Mind you, I’m not saying it did, but I’m reminded of Brendan Ryan’s comment shortly after the trade to the effect of, “it’s fun to play baseball again.” Just as a fan, I’m having more fun watching and listening to these guys, and although part is due to the fact that they’re winning, part is due to the fact that my mind isn’t caught up in the fact that the team was paying $18 million for not much production, and that it seemed that they were going to try to resign him for at least another year.
So, you can say that the team is winning because they’re playing inferior opponents, but two weeks ago, the inferior teams were thinking they were going to get on track by playing the M’s.
I’m not trying to bash Ichiro, but I think that him moving on is the best thing for the team, and that it may very well have provided a psychological lift to the other players.
Now, I’m prepared to duck. Move over, Vcoach.
Bremerton guy,
If you’re going to claim that, you need to provide evidence that actually mirrors the claim.
The Mariners have played against three teams since the Ichiro trade. They played KC before and after the trade, and basically did equally well against each. They played the Yankees before and after the trade, and did EXACTLY as well against them before and after the trade (even the exact same -4 run deficit over both three game series). Toronto is hard to compare, since they’ve just had horrible luck with player health lately. But, you know – Aaron Laffey is pitching for them, and Jose Bautista isn’t playing; so it’s hard to argue they’re any good at all right now.
You can talk about intangibles, and I do believe they can matter – but the burden of proof is on YOU to show there’s ANY evidence that Ichiro’s departure led to the team playing better.
WELLS!
I don’t think anyone argued that moving Ichiro was bad for the team. But I’d have a hard time believing that the team felt more confident having Tacoma’s strike-out kings as his replacement.
They struggled against NY, turned it on when they faced KC. I’d suspect the opponents pitching had more to do with the wins, than Ichiro moving on.
So you’re saying the hitters, in the aggregate, haven’t hit better the last ten days than in the preceding ten days? I don’t have a computer program set up to figure that out, nor do I have time tonight to put this down on paper, but I’d be shocked if that’s correct.
Since July 1, Brendan Ryan is hitting about .290, while before that he was at .180 or so. I suspect that’s got more to do with him “having fun playing baseball again” than anything else.
I don’t know who your question was directed at, Bremerton guy, but I’m saying I doubt Ichiro leaving had much, or anything, to do with the team hitting well against KC & Toronto.
BG – if you’ve been here for this thread, you’ve seen that I posted exactly what these guys have hit lately. But if you’re going to attribute performance to Ichiro’s departure, you’re going to also need to explain Well’s and Jaso’s suckitude since he left.
Maybe they were Ichiro’s only friends?
Ken Williams makes a better weather man than play by play man. Mariner’s radio is so hard to listen to. The only plus is not having to visualize Sims yelling out “IT’S A TRAP” and seeing tie fighters flying out of the sky…
You’re also going to need to explain why this magical effect didn’t kick in until after the Yankees left town.
Did I just hear Kevin Millwood saying the F word on national TV? Sims said “Baseball is a very competitive game and some guys get frustrated with themselves and choose to express themselves that way…and sometimes we happen to pick it up.” Lol.
The loudest F-word I ever heard on TV came from Saunders one game.
Spatch!!!
I only skimmed some of the above dialogue in regard to BG’s supposition (and I will go back to read it more thoroughly) but there is such a thing as team chemistry and it cannot always be quantified. Many of us have played on teams that had a mix of personnel that responded better when the components of personnel were changed … For whatever reason. A team has a “personality” aspect to it ebbs and flows even though it is not always easy to quantify or measure.
Bremerton Guy has always provided conscientious input. I can’t think of a time when he hasn’t.
I hear fans droppin’ f-bombs all the time. No big deal. Funny when player does, though.
Mike!
I still think correlation does not equal causation…even if there is a correlation. Chemistry takes a while to change and the effect would not be immediate as in this case.
Getting a little nervous here. Our left handers look lost at the plate.
They could use a dose of chemistry tonight! I’d be content with luck, though.
Whatever the reasons and causes – I was really hoping some of this new-found Mariners offense would find its way into the new Yankee Stadium.
So far, though, CC seems to be keeping the boys down.
I went back and read the dialogue. I agree with what BG wrote. And, I also agree there is nothing specific or quantifiable to point to … Especially if it were directed in ichiros direction specifically. Smoak left, too.
Boy, I almost never sit on a fence – so the only thing I can call upon is personal experience … And there is such a thing as team chemistry (on organized teams, at work, in school, pickup games at the gym, etc etc) based on my personal experience. And – its not always easy to define
Justin Smoak – clubhouse poison!
Our line-up isn’t all that well suited to facing lefties, as we know. And with Saunders out (along with his surprising ability to hit lefties nowadays), it’s even worse.
Personally, I always struggled in chemistry class. Probably the worst subject I ever had. I was a business major, so … “stocks, bonds, bears, bulls – people from Connecticut” is more along my lines of reasoning.
Another Seinfeld quote to add to the mix.
My last experience with an organized team was as a Coach (basketball). After semester grades came out and the teams secomd best individual player removed because of said grades – my team played much better. Kids responded. It was as simple as that. I certainly didnt become a better coach.
Better news, though – the next two pitchers the M’s get to face are Kuroda and Freddy!
Nobody’s saying there isn’t a such thing as chemistry, or that the Mariners don’t have any. I think the point, is that there’s no proof Ichiro leaving produced any.
Robinson and Olivo look horrendous at the plate this game, what a shocker!
CC is such a cock block!
To be fair, nobody’s lookin’ too sharp at the plate, apart from Wells. CC has 10 K’s already.
Can you quantify that with some statistics, Taylor ^
Then again, never mind!
Would pictures suffice, Mike?!
You guys know I’m not an Olivo fan – but against a lefty I’d pick him over Jaso any day.
Jaso is HORRIBLE against lefties – this year he’s hitting .138/.229/.138 when facing southpaws! And his career numbers are not all that much better than that.
Ahhhhh hahaha, new statistic, cocks blocked to cocks not blocked ratio
BTW it was kinda bizarre, before the game, to hear the fans in the outfield stands chanting “I-CHI-RO! I-CHI-RO!”
It was almost like they were mocking Seattle; but apparently this has been a regular thing since the Yanks got home.
Now THAT was a cheap home run.
I guess it doesn’t matter how many runs they score, if we can’t get any damn hits.
send him down, but then I’m quick to anger
I don’t know what that phrase means, and I’m afraid to Google it.
Hey wait… seven of nine have struck out at least once tonight. Could we call that chemistry?
I’m listening to the radio, Ken Williams made it sound like Thames might have had a chance at catching that one, to those of you watching; was he anywhere close?
I like how the announcers blame the HR on Thames. Maybe Millwood should stop serving up pitches.
Maybe I’m a little bit frustarated, but I almost forgot what it’s like to lose.
Steve: No!!!
Freaking tiny park. Good effort by Thames.
Shit … millwood was pitching well, too
Beating Sabathia is tough duty any day, but I would like to
See us put a scare into him before the game is over.
Replay would have been useful on that play.
Double-shit!
Taylor – Thames might’ve had it but it appears a fan got his glove somewhat in the way.
About the Ichiro thing:
Pro-Ichiro obsessers continually disclaim common sense and ask for empirical evidence. Evidence – be it circumstantial or not – often exists in the obvious. Why the knee-jerk reaction to something as obvious as a 7-game winning streak and the apparent reduction of stress.
I’ve argued for several seasons that Ichiro might be gumming up the works. I’ve even predicted that if and when he was traded or retired, the outfield might get uncorked and the lineup recharged.
But Ichiro detractors are never allowed to be correct. Just vilified and patronized.
What’s more intolerant than rejecting diverse opinions out of hand?
I know the guy was beloved and collected an enormous number of singles. I also know he was not pro typical RFer, and he also was prone to approaching the game in a somewhat contrary way: he would bunt with two outs and runners in scoring position. He would get thrown out at 3rd and home making the first or last out of the inning. He would not attempt a steal in close games in late innings when every announcer in the booth anticipated that he should.
He was enigmatic.
Maybe the summer of 2012 was a time when that “perfect storm” coalesced and the team’s play might reflect that. You certainly can’t dismiss that notion. And shouting “Hater!” is neither fair nor very becoming.
Thank you Westy, all the more reason to hate Yankee fans!
Fan put his glove into Thames’ glove – if that helps paint the picture, Taylor.
The debate is whether the gloves wee in play or over the wall – at the time. Looked like interference to me. At least debatable interference.
Pre-game, Ichiro DID walk over during BP and talk to several of the Mariners. So…
(Disclaimer: That really was just a joke. I was seriously not trying to extend the argument)
Hmm…am I better off going to bed now or shall I wait? Well with the way CC is pitching may not be a long wait anyway.
Westy, you have children … You have experienced CB ‘ing in one form or another (more than likely). Perhaps, many times. Think of it as a “barrier” from being able to tend to your appointed rounds. Sometimes they come out of nowhere at the most inopportune times.
haha, Westy
100mph…
Carter Capps!
Capps is a lot thinner than I believed him to be. A lot!
Come on kid!
OH…. hahahahaha!!! Thanks Mike, sometimes I am just dense (as my wife likes to point out).
It’s nice to see Capps!
I could not have come up with a better definition myself Mike, I tried, but couldn’t avoid it being overly inapropriate.
That was Capps’ debut – in Yankee Stadium!
Wow, he’ll be talking about that for the rest of his life.
All right. This game has officially become a blowout. At this point my sleep is more valuable than the last 2 innings of this thing.
I think I’ve asked this before, but – is there an infield “pecking order” that determines who should take that sort of fly (where all of the infielders could have caught it)?
I know in the outfield it’s the center fielder’s call.
I would have liked to have seen Wedge leave the kid in the game to get out of his own jam – over Olive Perez coming in and contributing to his short lived and likely to be very temporary 54.0 ERA.
Totally agree, Mike.
Westy: whomever has the best/deepest angle to the ball – with ease. That’s usually the best call. So, 2B or SS – usually. Sometimes it depends on who has the loudest mouth. Usually the C will bark out who he thinks should take it, too. He is the field general, but doesn’t always have a great angle.
Hey, Miggy checks in with a hit!
Thanks Mike.
Man, a whole two hits today.
On the bright side – we get to see Pryor now!
Isn’t it just a tad weird to be advertising “Project Runway” during a baseball game?
This just in … Sabathia is pretty good.
Didn’t figure on this game being a win, anyway. The series start tomorrow.
It’s also effectively convenient for me to think this. My own, personal defense mechanism. They fought. They were just out gunned.
Maybe they were cock-blocked as a team, you know, given all the chemistry talk.
Hehehehe Steve.
That line drive bullet for an out balanced his first AB dribbler that went for a hit.
Baseball!
ACKLEY!
… And still fighting, apparently. If nothing else, it will help to improve the optics.
Nice stroke by Ackley.
FWIW, Pulaski’s game ended in the 23rd with a 12-9 loss. In the “second” game, Pulaski is up 6-0.
kcw
Hopefully we’ll do better against Kuroda and Garcia.
As of we ever needed another good reason to never want to go to Pulaski, VA
“not that there’s anything wrong with it”
Seinfeld – out!
East coast in summer? No thank you, been there done that.
Our little community here might benefit from a sociologist chiming in regarding the group/team dynamic.
I know I would like to hear from one, anyway.
Is there a social scientist in the house – willing to chime in regarding some of the above ^ dialogue?
Dave always puts it so much better than I can.
http://www.ussmariner.com/2011/09/21/a-quick-note-on-chemistry/
Baseball is an individual team sport. Chemistry just doesn’t mean as much as in other sports. No matter what you do for a living, if someone pisses you off it could affect you for maybe a day, but in the long run you’ll get over it and continue performing at your normal levels. Chemistry in baseball has been proven time and again to not be relevant. Some people try to romanticize sports way too much. Which is fun in the playoffs, but over a 162 game season it’s just silly.
Vetted_coach, I just can’t fathom what a seemingly quiet guy like Ichiro could have been doing to make the guys so tense that it would cause them to play worse than they normally would. And that in his absence they’d relax so much that they would win 7 in a row.
I understand about chemistry. But didn’t he just kind of got about his business? I don’t think he was an active complainer or troublemaker, was he? If they let not liking someone who went about his business affect their play that much, wouldn’t it say more about them than him? I think there’s another explanation for the win streak.
You should have referenced the comments to the post. They were better.
CC Sabathia must’ve worn his anti-chemistry ablative underwear.
Yes they were. Sorry about that.
Norah: my comment was in regard to the link that mid-80′s posted.
Well, considering that I’m working on a masters’ in Criminal Justice, I think I have the necessary koalafications to say that an analysis of this group is irrelephant to the conversation and that some of the passive aggressiveness of certain members of our community is giraffing me crazy. Alpaca my things and let minnow if the memes are too much…
The few Ichiro haters need to get a life.
We’ve been fortunate with having some relatively easy opponents.
And the haters completely ignore that a seriously underperforming central member of the lineup (Smoak) was sent down at the same time Ichiro was traded, and Smoak’s replacement has been hitting around .400 during the winning streak.
I don’t agree with it, but I’d understand if they were trying to claim that Smoak was dragging down the team. But when Ichiro’s replacements have performed much worse?
Jeez.
The haters completely ignore that a seriously underperforming central member of the lineup (Smoak) was sent down at the same time Ichiro was traded, and Smoak’s replacement has been hitting around .400 during the winning streak.
Yes, but this is the one last chance to make fundamental attribution error with regards to Ichiro and the Mariners, so the haters don’t want to blow that chance.
FWIW, California League and all that, new M’s farmhand Leon Landry hit for the cycle last night and drove in 4 runs for High Desert.
nvn8vbryce, that post bordered on the criminal.
You should slip a few of those into a legal brief sometime.
We won seven games in a row. Michael Saunders played in all seven. Then, last night, Wedge left Saunders out of the line-up – and we got soundly beaten.
It’s pretty obvious Michael Saunders has been carrying this team.
Nicely done, Bryce … Nicely done.
Saunders … Key … Ruh ro! It’s hard to be a complementary player and a key player, simultaneously – but we do have quite a few of those.