Game 116, Mariners at Angels
Jason Vargas vs. Jered Weaver, 12:35
Last night was fun, but today’s match-up’s obviously a tough one for the M’s. Wedge essentially repeats last night’s lefty-heavy line-up today, with Montero in the order in place of Miguel Olivo.
1: Ackley
2: Saunders
3: Seager
4: Jaso (DH)
5: Montero (C)
6: Carp
7: Thames
8: Robinson
9: Ryan
SP: Jason Vargas
[MiLB update:]
Andrew Carraway’s starting today for Tacoma at Memphis, and Taijuan Walker goes for Jackson. Jochi Ogando takes the hill for Pulaski and Jordan Shipers started for Clinton, though his day’s done after 8 batters.
[Update 2:]
Courtesy of Westside Guy in the comments, Franklin Gutierrez has had another setback in his recovery from a concussion. He’d been nearing a rehab start or two with the Everett Aquasox, but something obviously went wrong. I can’t say this is shocking, as he’s had a few setbacks already, but while the M’s are still hopeful he can play somewhere this season, I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be best to target the winter leagues instead. Guti picked up plantar fasciitis during his rehab for another injury, and hurt his oblique after returning from IBS last season; I think it might be advisable to rule out playing this year so his rehab can proceed at a more measured pace. Forget about rushing back to try to make some arbitrary deadline, Guti. Just get healthy. If you can.
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169 Responses to “Game 116, Mariners at Angels”
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It’s good to see Montero in the lineup in place of Olivo.
I’m not super-happy about the outfield, but I suppose getting good long looks at guys is more important this year than maximizing what little chance we have at winning individual games. I just hate punting defense though.
On a side note – there’s more bad news about Guti comes from Greg Johns.
You beat me to it, Westy. I feel so bad for him.
Me no speekee good English, apparently.
I feel bad for him too, Waco.
The Angels should give Trout the day off. You don’t want to wear the kid out before the playoffs.
Wow. Pitching coach ejected after complaining about a pitch that was obviously a ball!?
Good grief, I don’t care who’s pitching – they don’t deserve a wider strike zone just because of their name.
These fans are morons.
Good grief, I can’t believe Trout almost beat that out!!
I am guessing the Angels have a history of issues with this particular umpire when Weaver pitches. No logical explanation for a first inning ejection other than some past event. And, now the pitching Coach is in a “blue” mood.
Pujols 0-9 in the series. He had been hot and he will get hot again … Hopefully starting tomorrow.
Montero is noticeably less crouched in his stance
And there it is! Boom!!
MONTY!!
Fortunately just a few feet too far for Trout to reach…
Trout looked like he might’ve tweaked his arm on that play.
There goes the perfecto.
Urgh, Wells probably would’ve managed to keep Aybar on first.
Mistake by Carp – he should’ve stepped on first before throwing to second.
Haha, Trout isn’t perfect!
(gotta take consolation where you can)
I’d like to hear Eric Wedge articulate (it means “clearly explain”, Skip) what Mike Saunders and Eric Thames do, both offensively and defensively, to maintain their edge over Casper Wells. Without using the phrase, “it is what it is.” Thames is a DH who butchers the outfield. Saunders is an ordinary fielder with decent speed who gets up in the morning grounding out to 2B.
In exchange for his own rationalization I will freely offer my own definition of “blockhead.”
Good job by Vargas to get out of that mess.
Yeah, that inning could’ve gotten real ugly.
Coming into today, against Weaver:
Saunders is 4-11 lifetime
Wells 1-3
Robinson 1-3
Thames 0-1
I would have gone with Wells over Thames today – for defensive value. Offensively, there was not enough data to decide, but Wells is the better overall player regardless of handedness. Wells has been struggling as much as anybody, but I thought Thames needed a day off.
We shall see. Thames may knock one out today. Wells does seem to have a rather short leash, though. Not sure why.
I think it’s a case of they know what they have in Wells and want to see what they have in Robinson and Thames.
I concur with every bit of that. If Saunders doesn’t look like a guy who needs a rest, no one ever will.
Thames kind of seems like another Mike Wilson.
He said he felt Thames needs a day off, not Saunders. But Saunders could probably use a day himself.
Robinson is infinitely more watchable than Peguero. At least for me, he is.
We sure seem to have cornered the market on 4th/5th outfielder types, though.
Damn saw that one coming.
If Wedge gives Saunders a day off, he might just put Trayvon in center and Figgins in left – be careful what you wish for!
Thames does seem kinda like a LH version of Mike Wilson. Fortunately for him 2/3 of starting pitchers are right handed. He might be a bit better in the OF too, but i never did see enough of Wilson to know for sure. Pretty good comp though, Steve.
And, I would much rather have thames than League.
This team needs Guti in a bad way – and yes, I heard the health update in him.
Nice play be Seager and Carp!
So, here are the conditions in which the M’s can’t hit:
Safeco in SpringSpringSafecoAny place with air and/or gravity
WOW!
Great play, and – Trout is absurdly fast.
Weaver is very good today. Might start swinging earlier in the count.
And Robinson is in a whole different class than Peguero. Robinson can do enough things to qualify at least as a decent 4th outfielder. With Peguero, it’s either connect consistently with power, or go home.
“by”
Great call by the umpire, too.
No kidding, Mike! Wells, Robinson, Peguero, Thames, Wilson, Carp(?), bleh. Wells is clearly the best of those, but probably not more than a 4th. An argument could be made for Guti to have that spot. I don’t see how this team can start next season without at least one new face for the outfield. Two would be better.
Thames was traded for Delabar, not League. That doesn’t mean you can’t like Thames more than League, though;)
Sure glad they didn’t trade Vargas. And this team needs several new faces. After Guti, they don’t have a better outfielder than Wells. If he ends up being a true #4, it means they’ve added two very good outfielders.
Robinson’s career strike out rate is not that much better than Peguero’s.
And to add to that, he has basically no power.
Offensively they aren’t that much different in value. The only real extra value Treyvon has is in the defense. But given his arm isn’t very good, he can’t really play right.
I think that Treyvon’s ceiling is a AAAA 4th outfielder. Especially given that his fundamentals (O-Swing, O-contact and Z-contact) aren’t very good.
Robinson led Tacoma in K’s (at the time he was called-up). Peguero probably would have if he had enough AB’s. I’d rather pass on both.
Montero does it again!!
Well at least Montero knows how to hit Weaver!
Monty and Jaso – our only offense today…
I know Dave isn’t big into Michael Bourne, but I’d still see if you can get him around 12M a year for 2 or 3.
FIGGINS POWER!
Haha – Figgins joins the party!
Wonder if there will be some off-season first base reps for Monty? Wouldn’t surprise me.
So who’s playing first now? (this game)
Could be, Steve.
Right now I’m hoping Carp is okay.
Be prepared for the infield shift this inning. Ackley to first and Seager to second is my guess.
I’d like to see Figgins play first here, but I suspect he’ll be at third and everyone will shift.
I’m assuming Ackley and Seager shift, Figgins takes third.
We gotta stop doing that Westy!
… And Montero is still 4 years away from entering the average prime year starting point. If he can hit Weaver, he can hit other righties. Liking his less crouched stance – a lot. Good adjustment.
Yes, for Delabar … My mistake.
Figgins PH for Carp … And it worked. I assume Ackley is going to 1B, now? Interesting time to go with a defensive reduction all around. Carp has been playing good defense. I wonder if he got hurt. I hope it doesn’t end up taking a “wedge” out of our asses.
Man I wish we still had Smoak.
Thames defense is… awkward.
Haha Steve, you KNEW I’d never say that!
I couldn’t keep a straight face when I wrote that
I was kinda hoping Vargas would go over to first (seeing as he is better hitting than Figgy) and have Figgins pitch.
Hehehe Henry
(What happened to Mike Carp was that he got four straight fast balls and couldn’t square one up.)
Figgins looked safe to me. Rewound and watched 4 times including one frame-by-frame. Questionable call for sure.
But Weaver was challenging everyone, and Montero shoved it up his rear. That was sweet.
I like Larry LaRue’s nickname for Thames – “Adventure”. It describes his fielding very well.
BTW, Vargas’ career WAR from offense is 0.8. Smoak is at -0.8. So, yeah.
If players are getting pulled off the field for the M’s for not squaring up fastballs, we’re not going to be able to field 9 by the middle of the 5th.
Smoak is only -0.8? Figured it was worse!
Remember he had a really good month last year. Something like 1.5 WAR in a month.
I don’t remember Monty’s first homer – but his second one, as well as Jaso’s hit, came off a changeup.
Is the Felix commercial the only one with players still on the team?
Ackley has one Henry
Montero’s first HR appears to be from a straight fastball right down the middle.
Nope. They still have Ackley’s
Smoak had 4 errors after his first 15 games in tacoma after his demotion. And he was hitting right around .200.
I know he had a couple doubles last night, though. Possibly against a AAA 5th starter? I can’t really think of another good explanation.
vargo is working it!
Ackley’s commercial includes Smoak, if I recall right.
They could still run the Brendan Ryan commercial – just do some post-processing and replace Ichiro with Thames.
Thames could be “Big Adventure” and Trayvon “Lil Adventure”.
If Peguero comes back up, he’d be “Hulking Adventure”.
Nope, nevermind. Just coaches, and some players way in the background.
I’m annoyed they can’t really do Ryan’s commercial any more. His De Niro impression is nothing short of incredible.
With Trayvon, Peguero, and Thames, they could do another version of the Three Stooges.
Now comes the problem with this line-up. So many lefties…
Given the organization, I’m surprised they haven’t replaced those other commercials with 2010 Griffey commercials.
What would you call Olivo – Multi Adventure?
El Mundo Adventurismo.
Muy Feo Adventura’
Help me Steve.
Very nice, Steve. I laughed.
But surely Olivo could fit in there somewhere, too.
Bringing back some old commercials would actually be great.
Lou as a shrink, and Randy as a knife thrower were great.
There were four Larry, Moe, Curly Joe And Shemp. haha
Muitas Aventuras
Condor is hitting like a hummingbird.
Time for an elasticity refresh on those bands.
If Wedge believed in pitch hitting that would have been a good spot for Wells to hit.. If..
Yes, there’s plenty to fill those parts, but I figured I’d stick with the outfield for now. Figgin and Olivo would certainly be deserving.
Figgins and Olivo could be Laurel and Hardy.
What the fuck kind of swing was that from Saunders?
I think it was the kind that automatically buys some time off. Zero pitch recognition – and he dropped the bat moreso than “swing” the bat. Maybe his worst swing of the year.
I’m thinking my shoe and gastrointestinal workings are safe, now
Haha, way to jinx yourself!
Wow, I knew that Melky Cabrera was having a good season, but he’s having a hell of a season.
Probably just earned himself a big contract.
Wonder what you could get Sizemore for. Maybe a low-risk free agent.
Mike and I were discussing that a bit the other day, Henry. Cabrera has put up great numbers the last two years. And SF hasn’t been much more friendly of a place to hit than Safeco.
Sizemore and Guti could keep each other company during perpetual rehab, if nothing else.
Okay, no more Vargas please.
Pryor, Capps, Kelly, freaking something else.
Saunders flat out stinks right now. If Wedge continues to bat him in the 2-hole and feature him against LHP, he is flat out stupid. And Z should share the credit.
Mike Carp – right hip stiffness. In other words, he couldn’t hit the fastball.
Save on gas money and have them carpool between Seattle, Everett and Tacoma.
Don’t hold back VC. Tell us what you really think.
Never thought of that til now, Mike…. Sizemore and Guti, both from Cleveland, both with multiple health issues. Wonder if they shared a room while Guti was there? (kidding)
Sweet double play!
Oh my – huge!!!!!
Z is now getting blamed for Saunders only being league average?
Man, must be rough.
Guti and Sizemore were once teammates in Cleveland. Guti was available for trade – in large part – because of Sizemore.
Ironic.
Wells has only played 19 games in center for his career.
Wow, Saunders BABIP in August is .160 with 60% LD and FB.
That is impressive bad luck.
A third home run would go really nice here, Monty.
Saunders was drafted Bavasi era, wasn’t he?
Carp probably hurt his hip stretching for a ball at 1B – don’t you think? He almost did the splits a few timea this road trip. I almost pulled a groin muscle watching it. I have no problem believing he has tweaked his hip. And, that being his front leg – it would definitely impact his swing.
Yup, Steve, he was.
Vargas’ career OPS is higher than Figgins last 3 years.
Screw it, blame Jack for Carp’s injury too.
I think Saunders was drafted in ’04 … As a 3B, believe it or not.
Way before Z’s tenure.
Saunders wasn’t drafted.
He was hatched.
Vargas is actually a decent hitter.
Oh Trout – that’s just not fair.
haha Henry
Hit it near the wrong guy. A bullet, too.
Damn, we needed that to fall.
You don’t hit into the Trout pond people.
Mike Scioscia FEARS THE BEARD!
I thought Montero couldn’t hit righties. He is getting some good contact today.
Do you think that given the number of runs the M’s normally score that he thinks he’s on a hockey team, and it’s the playoffs?
Man, I realize this isn’t exactly news, but -
Mike Trout is scary good, offensively AND defensively. He probably should get the MVP.
FIGGY!!!!!!!
Figgins?!!!! I’ll take it!!
Blind squirrels and nuts.
See: Chone Figgins triple.
Angel killer, Chone Figgins!!!
That must feel great for him.
I have Wilhelmson on my fantasy team. Would like that save.
I realize Figgins isn’t a kid, but maybe he should be getting more playing time if Thames and Robinson are the alternative.
Figgins likes to hit in this park.. Want him back?
I’ve always thought that Figgins was a Angels mole, and was sent here to ruin us.
Jesus Montero is only 22 – I wouldn’t make any final decisions on his ability to hit righties, yet.
Dammit – needed to get that runner in from 3B, Thames.
No, but he’s shown that he’s not ready to do it reliably, yet.
If Montero can learn to hit righties consistently, he’ll be one of the elite bats in the league.
You guys are brutal.
Of course Z didn’t draft Saunders. But if his manager continues to run the guy out there, and your the GM, you could be expected to intervene at some point.
Enough cheap shots.
And if Carp is really injured, I’ll sell you s bridge in New York.
Blind squirrels and nuts.
I don’t know. Montero’s last 30 days, not including today in 104 PA:
.344/.404/.452
Fangraphs doesn’t do partial season slits for RH/LH but at least some of that has to be against RH pitching.
Oh, oh. Figgy’s 2-2. He’ll start tomorrow.
Vargas comes out for the 9th? Surprising.
Lucky break on that Trumbo LD.
Relief – now!!!
Good.
Come on, Michael – Trout would’ve caught that…
Whatever it is you are selling, I am sure there will be people lined up to buy it.
Maybe Carp hurt his hip practicing being the relay on throws to 2B
He is hurt. Are you ever wrong, pal?
Go away.
Cheap shots? Quit talking like you know it all, and people won’t pick apart the stupid things you say.
You seem to have a thing for blasting Saunders. Right now, he’s under-performing, but he’s been one the best outfielder we’ve had this season. Kicking him while he’s down right now, is more of a cheap shot, than any of the rebuttals thrown your way.
Trout isn’t the only CF who could have caught that ball. Sorry – but Saunders is an average CF at best. Middle of the pack at best. I’ve nevr seen him make a tough catch going back. And neither have you.
You know, the 3B and CF/RF free agent crop might not be great, but there is some stuff to be had to add on.
And then there are some sexy, sexy SP but they’re probably all looking at 5 years/100+.
If the choice is Olivo or Montero going against a righty – I think Monty should get most of the at bats. He’s certainly better than Miggy against them.
As long as Jaso is in the lineup, of course.
Actually I have seen Saunders make tough catches going back, VC. I’ve also seen him rob a home run similar to how Trout did.
He’s not Trout – he’s not Guti – but he’s the best CF we’ve got right now.
Hey, Saunders just made a tough catch going backward to end the game.
Did you see that one?
I concur Steve but I don’t think that will change anything.
Saunders has made many great catches. You’re just talking out your ass now.
I don’t have a “thing” for anything but knowing the game of baseball. None of my shots are cheap. They’re all qualified, well thought out objective observations.
IfI sound like I know what I’m talking about, it’s because I know what I’m talking about.
You’re just ticked off because you didn’t agre with my analysis of Carp’s defense. But my analysis was accurate. I wore the uniform for over 35 years.
Relax and deal with it. I never get prrsonal. Grow up.
Good game team!! Tomorrow we face the Rays.
“Now”, Steve?
“I never get personal”
“Grow up”
Right next to each other? You really don’t see the disconnect there, VC?
That last catch by Saunders was nice. But not “tough” by any stretch. Routine for a competant mlb CF. Please!
What you don’t get, VC, is that you’re both arrogant and naive. You think you know it all, have an answer and explanation for everything, but you’re often wrong. So you come off looking like a fool, but you’re too stupid to realize it.
Hey guys, let’s not forget that the Mariners just took two out of three from the Angels – and that was after losing the Felix start!
Well, Coach, start your own blog, and post there. But you act arrogant, dismissive, and a lot of the things you say can be proven to be incorrect.
So, get along with everyone without the arrogant attitude, or just go some place else.
I never said anything about your “analysis” of Carp’s defense, either. You’re just making shit up. I can’t actually watch the games right now. I’m dependent on gameday.
Give up Steve. If you disagree with his analysis you’re wrong and he’ll never see it differently.
haha, wouldn’t life be easier, if we could just believe we’re right all the time?!
They just showed it on the postgame, Montero’s last 7 games against RH pitching:
.462 avg, .692 slg.
That isn’t sustainable, but it is encouraging.
What was the analysis of Carps defense, again?
You said he was pulled because he could not get around on the fastball.
You know, there are a lot of people around here who played, coached, officiated – who are not perpetually providing their resume nor were they compelled to include a mini version of it within their user name.
I am very much looking forward to your next info relay on fastballs rising, 1B cutoff rotations and head trainer injury expertise
We are all wrong. Only you have the right answers. You defy us all. You defy replay. Hell, you may even defy gravity.
You were not kidding about the fact you would bloviate when you joined several weeks ago, You nailed that one – and now we are all better off.
Westside,
I have never personally gone after anyone. Only defended myself from random emotional shots.
And, yes, I think “grow up” accurately connects with the tantrums I have fielded from people who find my comments aggressive. But they’re never personal or exaggerated.
I’ve been associated with the game on a professional level since 1981, so I do know what I’m talking about. And I never throw that around unless someone goes off emotionally and attacks me personally.
I know I’m being pretty optimistic here, but let’s say the M’s took two of three from Tampa Bay, swept the Twins, and took two of three from Cleveland, they could potentially be 60-65 heading to Chicago. That doesn’t look too bad and it doesn’t seem impossible.
Again, mike, you misread what I said. Not the first time.
Carps defense on the Aybar tag-up was poor. it cost a run. My analysis of it was accurate. That’s what I referred to.
The injury thing was a whole different conversation.
It’s a stretch to accuse me of “acting” like anything. You can’t back it up with anything concrete. I express my opinions just like everyone else. Everyone else. Mine are just more extreme and more assertive. Big deal.
Wilchiro, you’re right – you’re being pretty optimistic.
But still, I like it.
See y’all later.
VC, have you not noticed that you’re having trouble getting along with everyone here? You think your comments are defensive, but you fail to see that many of your comments are insulting to the rest of us. You talk as if we couldn’t possibly know, but you do. Think about that for a minute.
You think you’re the only one with extensive baseball experience? A lot of us have played the game and coached. Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been involved anyway. I’ve known plenty of idiots with extensive careers, and plenty of brilliant young players/coaches as well. There’s a place for everyone, somewhere.
We’re all Mariner fans, right? We’re all on this site for good reasons, right? Try to be a little more careful with your words and you’ll get along with everyone here just fine.
Maybe VC is really DC – having a great time trolling everyone.
Now that would be funny!
If you missed something about Carp’s defense Mike, so did I, and everyone else. I can’t find anything regarding that. Not in this thread anyway.
It would be funny if that was Dave! I doubt it, though. How many times has he had to address people like that? I can imagine how annoying it would be for him, as he gets the worst of it.
One thing I think everyone can agree on, is that this outfield stinks. None of the outfielders are hitting worth a damn and two are pretty terrible in the field. I think Saunders is the best of the group, and I don’t think he or Wells should go, but there is a dire need to obtain more depth. We can probably limp through this season, but man, it’s difficult to watch sometimes. Of course winning makes it a little easier
We need Wells and Saunders to be productive, offensively. When they are, the OF is above “passable”. When they aren’t …
They are both in a slump and maybe they wil both come out of it at around the same time. There is no one, single, productive stabilizing force in the OF. Everyone knows it. Not sure what th team will do about it, though. Attempting to convert infielders into outfielders isnt the answer. Completely different skillsets involved.
Saunders is having a hard time with pitch recognition right now. Maybe the old adage regarding the “dog days of August” is ringing true with him. He needs a mental break if nothing else, but he is too good defensively to not play. Better as a LF than a CF, but he is the best CF we have.
Come on Neon Leon! … I guess. He’s only 3 levels away.
@Kazinski
What Montero’s been doing lately against RHP is certainly encouraging. I really believe he can be one of the top bats in the league, if he can do it consistently. At 22, hard to complain with how he’s coming along -with the bat.
I suspect that vetted_coach is in no way DC, but might actually be Casper Wells’ mom or some relative.
This would explain nicely why he/she always seems to try to lavishly praise Wells for anything, while badmouthing Saunders and the other outfielders.
Go Saunders.