Game 21, Mariners at Astros

marc w · April 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

King Felix vs. Brad Peacock, 5:10pm

The M’s have dropped three straight, and seven of their last ten ballgames. They’re 1-9 in Felix Hernandez’s last 10 starts. They’re exactly where most thought they’d be, in fourth place in the division, and looking like an also-ran. Larry Stone’s post states what we all feel/intuit: this front office is in trouble if things don’t change, and this series is about as critical as a series of cellar-dwelling teams, in April, can be. There have been rational calls in recent days to avoid going overboard. Everyone slumps, and it’s not like the M’s are 3-17 or something like that. A fanbase can deal with a rebuild, and Zduriencik and company had so much goodwill to start off with first because they were able to articulate a plan and second because he wasn’t Bill Bavasi. It’s not that the M’s haven’t yet caught up with the Rangers (seriously, where’s the ‘Moneyball’ book about that club?), it’s that they don’t appear to be moving forward at all.

So far this year, the M’s have used Jason Bay as a pinch runner, and Endy Chavez and Brendan Ryan as pinch hitters. Raul Ibanez has the third-most defensive innings, and nothing, not even becoming the worst hitting 1B in MLB history with at least 1,500 plate appearances, can move Justin Smoak from 1B. Jesus Montero’s lost his starting job, Dustin Ackley appears lost, and Michael Saunders remains hurt. The M’s come into a make-or-break series suffering from a noxious combination of offensive malaise and injuries, and it’s not clear what they can do about it. The M’s have appeared to place a great degree of emphasis on confidence, and about making commitments to players to remove doubt and angst about playing time. They did it with Chone Figgins in 2012, and they did it this spring with Justin Smoak and Jesus Montero. I wonder what the confidence levels are like in the GM’s office right now.

Like Matthew, I was initially just floored by the decision to use Brendan Ryan as a pinch hitter in the 9th the other day. The more I looked at it though, I was floored by how, well, not rational, but *understandable* it was. Dustin Ackley’s 0-12 against lefties this year, bringing his career wOBA against LHPs to .287. Ryan’s is .296. If you want to discount Ryan’s for his recent history, I’m with you, but you may need to do the same with Ackley’s. The pinch-hitting penalty means you’d have to be really, really down on Ackley’s approach versus lefties right now, and, well, that’s not exactly pants-on-head crazy. Some of Eric Wedge’s managerial decisions this season (particularly in Felix’s last start) have been head-scratchers at best, but this one had more to do with weakness in the M’s young core than in the M’s grizzled manager. With Franklin Gutierrez both hurt and cooling off against RHPs (after a fast start), the M’s are settling into a team that’s exceedingly easy to pitch to. I’m hopeful that things will improve as Saunders returns and Morse heals, of course, but the Astros are in the odd position of being *in* a series; they’re not favorites, especially given the match-ups, but they’re not prohibitive underdogs.

Brad Peacock faced the M’s at Safeco and cruised to a relatively easy win, though he did give up three runs in five innings. The righty uses a Justin Grimm-like mix of a 91-93mph fastball and curve, though he’ll mix in a few more change-ups than Grimm. Of course, Grimm looked excellent against this team, so that’s not exactly damning with faint praise (or damning with so-so comps). Shockingly, Peacock did *not* set a career high in K’s when last he faced the M’s, though he did manage to go five and qualify for the win. As you may have noticed in the three-game set at Safeco, the Astros are attempting a soft ‘piggy-back’ rotation strategy, where their starters pitch relatively few innings and then turn it over to the bullpen. The Astros’ starters have averaged about 4.5IP per game this year, and that’s not *solely* because they’ve been getting pummeled. Erik Bedard pitched in long relieft on opening day, then yielding after four shutout innings in Seattle on 4/9.

Peacock’s fastball is arrow-straight, with a bit of rise to it. It’s enabled him to get a decent amount of K’s, and he’s all but eliminated platoon splits, but he’s an extreme fly-baller who pitches in Houston. I mentioned the last time he pitched against the M’s that they needed to get a long-ball or two against him. As it happened, they did – both Shoppach and Guti hit solo shots. But it didn’t matter, as the M’s were already essentially out of the game. Today would be a good time for Kendrys Morales to get it going, but so would yesterday and the day before so……

Line-up!
1: Gutierrez, CF
2: Seager, 3B
3: Morales, DH
4: Morse, RF
5: Smoak, 1B
6: Ackley, 2B
7: Montero, C
8: Chavez, LF
9: Ryan, SS
SP: King Felix

Wow, Smoak-Ackley-Montero in the middle of the order. Bet you thought you’d relish seeing that in the line-up a year or so ago.

Today’s dog-bites-man news: Franklin Gutierrez is mystified by his latest injury, and says it’s nothing he’s had before. I mentioned it before the season, but at some point, Gutierrez’s non-recurring injuries become *worse* than one chronic problem. A chronic back/ankle/hamstring problem is severe, and it’s the kind of thing that get a player tagged with the ‘injury prone’ label, but they’re manageable. Gutierrez has a different, serious, out-of-nowhere problem every year, and at this point it looks like evidence of a systemic as opposed to localized/contained problem. The M’s need his bat. You’re awesome, 2013.

Important start for James Paxton down in Salt Lake tonight, as he tries to maintain the plus stuff he showed last time, while limiting walks (he walked four in six innings in his last start). Paxton’s put a sub-par spring behind him, and flashed excellent stuff in Tacoma; with the walks and some big innings, he’s still dealing with the perception that his home is in the bullpen, but the M’s may give him a shot in the rotation this season. Hultzen’s first in line (depending on Erasmo Ramirez’s health, I suppose), but Paxton could get a chance as well. Gametime’s 5:35.

Comments

101 Responses to “Game 21, Mariners at Astros”

  1. Sports on a Shtick on April 22nd, 2013 4:38 pm

    “They’re 1-9 in Felix Hernandez’s last 10 starts.”

    Win for Felix you pile of Koopa Troopas!

  2. JasonJ on April 22nd, 2013 5:02 pm

    At this point I just want to watch some entertaining baseball. This team is brutal to watch at the moment. The only thing that’s remotely entertaining right now is Ibanez’ 3-ring circus in left field.

  3. Swungonandbelted on April 22nd, 2013 5:26 pm

    Smoak up with a RISP and 2 outs… And oh my God he gets a hit…

  4. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 5:27 pm

    Nice at bat Smoak!

  5. Sports on a Shtick on April 22nd, 2013 5:30 pm

    Smoak looked good, Ackley looked terrible. But one run, I’ll take it!

  6. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 5:30 pm

    Ackley, on the other hand, why are you swinging at that on 3-1?

  7. raul_podzednick on April 22nd, 2013 5:36 pm

    “Ackley, on the other hand, why are you swinging at that on 3-1?”

    My thought exactly

  8. Sports on a Shtick on April 22nd, 2013 5:45 pm

    Look at how awful that swing by Montero was. Some of these guys look like they’re clueless and don’t make any adjustments.

  9. msfanmike on April 22nd, 2013 6:04 pm

    “…suffering from a noxious combination of offensive malaise and injuries …”

    That is awesome, my friend! Your keyboard was probably left smoking from that line.

    Speaking of smoking – Seager!!!

  10. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 6:06 pm

    Seager on fire!

  11. bookbook on April 22nd, 2013 6:09 pm

    Does Felix even know hot to pitch with a three-run lead? Quick, get Jack Morris on the phone!

  12. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 6:10 pm

    I love this stadium (mustering up some positive thinking…)

    But I really do– the little flag mound and the arched trainway are really cool touches…

    Go M’s.

  13. JasonJ on April 22nd, 2013 6:15 pm

    Was just thinking the same thing. Looks like a nice place to watch a game.

  14. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 6:16 pm

    My 94 year old Grandma died a year ago… Lifelong Giddings, TX resident… Lifelong (well latter half of her life) Houston Astros fan (never missed a televised game the past decade). We made plans to come down and take her to the first Astros-Mariners game when it happened…

    Melancholy, yet fond, day to watch a baseball game.

    Miss ya, Grandma Katie.

  15. Longgeorge1 on April 22nd, 2013 6:17 pm

    Speaking of injuries – Anyone have a status on Erasmo?

  16. djw on April 22nd, 2013 6:21 pm

    This is fun. I wish this was a major league team they were playing.

  17. Gormogon on April 22nd, 2013 6:22 pm

    It hurts to watch Montero even run the bases after he homers. It’s like watching a toddler taking his first steps from the couch to the chair.

  18. msfanmike on April 22nd, 2013 6:22 pm

    Balk to back hits by Ackley and Montero.

    The foray through the AAAA opponent has started well.

  19. zvazda on April 22nd, 2013 6:22 pm

    Mr. Z – So sorry to hear that :’(.

  20. bookbook on April 22nd, 2013 6:22 pm

    Speaking of injuries-Peacock must be broken. An Ackley double? A Montero HR?

  21. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 6:24 pm

    djw wrote:
    “This is fun. I wish this was a major league team they were playing.”

    Baby steps, djw… Baby steps.

    (Apologies to Jesus Montero, no pun intended…)

  22. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 6:25 pm

    Seems like, a year ago, the media was talking about the young bats coming around after a stretch of games that included two series against Kansas City. Unfortunately, subsequently the team faced some pitching that didn’t suck, and the guys mostly started being terrible again.

    It’s nice to see Smoak and Montero get some hits – but let’s not pronounce them “fixed” based on a few at bats against an awful team.

  23. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 6:26 pm

    zvazda-
    Thanks. But if the game keeps going like this, it might have been for the best (sweet laugh).

  24. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 6:34 pm

    Crap, Guti.

  25. IndieSnob on April 22nd, 2013 6:34 pm

    Hate to see such a nice kid like Guti be so cursed.

  26. Sports on a Shtick on April 22nd, 2013 6:35 pm

    Oh dear, Guti is walking off after that dive attempt. Didn’t look too bad but maybe he aggravated his pelvic injury.

  27. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 6:38 pm

    Ugh. I don’t relish the idea of either Bay or Ibañez facing this crap pitcher. I really don’t want to hear about how they’re “turning it around” if they manage to get a few hits against a guy who probably belongs in AAA.

  28. Longgeorge1 on April 22nd, 2013 6:38 pm

    Injuries? Jays pick up Wells -4 pitches later Saunders goes on DL Rizzs announces that Wells is picked up by A’s – next pitch Guti? ( DL odds 99% )

  29. msfanmike on April 22nd, 2013 6:38 pm

    Anytime Guti has to sprint in a game, its a perilous situation. He did it twice within five minutes, so of course he has to get hurt during the Mariner April of doom.

    The Dude just has an old body and this team is freaking cursed.

  30. Sports on a Shtick on April 22nd, 2013 6:42 pm

    More Mariners organization bad news, courtesy of Curto:
    Paxton done after 1.2 IP. 8 hits, 6 runs, 3 walks, 0 K’s. Hit hard; 5 extra-base hits (2 HRs).

  31. Section329 on April 22nd, 2013 6:42 pm

    No sweat-Bay can play center with his veteran grit.

  32. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 6:46 pm

    Dingerzzzzzz

  33. Longgeorge1 on April 22nd, 2013 6:48 pm

    Looks like Endy is our CF. When is Saunders back?

  34. Swungonandbelted on April 22nd, 2013 6:48 pm

    Smoak?!!

  35. The_Waco_Kid on April 22nd, 2013 6:53 pm

    We have to look at every game Guti plays from now on as a gift.

  36. spuuky on April 22nd, 2013 6:59 pm

    For some reason it really depresses me looking in the RBI section of the box score:

    J Smoak (4), J Montero 3 (5).

  37. Bodhizefa on April 22nd, 2013 7:02 pm

    So who thinks this will be Guti’s last year with us? Sad, but since he can’t stay on the field ever, paying him $8 million next year seems pretty silly. We better be all-in on Ellsbury, that’s for sure. And we’ll need plenty more after him, too, so I hope some of our kids come up and perform adequately sooner than later.

  38. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 7:08 pm

    I go have dinner, come back… And Bay has replaced Guty in the box score? Guty got hurt? What happened?

    Damn.

  39. Paul B on April 22nd, 2013 7:13 pm

    I’m not ready to give up on Montero.

  40. bookbook on April 22nd, 2013 7:13 pm

    Bodhizefa:
    Guti, Smoak, Montero, Z, Wedgie, Hanson, Ryan.

    There’s a bunch of guys in their last year with us.

  41. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 7:15 pm

    bookbook:
    If Ibanez and Bay aren’t on that list I don’t know what I’ll do.

  42. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 7:20 pm

    Smoak and Monty will still be with us next year – it just may be in AA.

  43. BackRub on April 22nd, 2013 7:22 pm

    For those of you(lurkers included), freaking out about Ackley’s performance over a SSS, how his line over past 6 games:

    333/333/429

    Are you freaking out the other way now?

  44. msfanmike on April 22nd, 2013 7:23 pm

    Who is Hanson?

  45. spuuky on April 22nd, 2013 7:27 pm

    I had noticed the was doing “ok” the last week or so. .333 OBP is still not very good, but it’s definitely better than before. But still, 6 games is nothing.

  46. msfanmike on April 22nd, 2013 7:28 pm

    Using a small sample size example to counteract another (as you stated) small sample size … What did I miss?

    Last month of 2011, all of 2012, first 4 weeks of 2013. Is that the small sample example you are referring to?

  47. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 7:29 pm

    “333/333/429

    Are you freaking out the other way now?”

    Uh… Yeah… 3 games is an INCREDIBLY SMALL SAMPLE SIZE… Maybe? You’re gonna go with the 3 games rather than the past year and a month? Really?

  48. Section329 on April 22nd, 2013 7:30 pm

    Hanson is the hitting coach.

  49. msfanmike on April 22nd, 2013 7:33 pm

    Roger that Section 329. Thank you.

    I had forgotten that a hitting coach pretty much has to be fired, annually. It is obviously their (all if those poor bastards) fault.

  50. Ralph_Malph on April 22nd, 2013 7:37 pm

    Their last hitting coach died in a bizarre gardening accident.

  51. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 7:43 pm

    Ralph Malph-
    That makes sense, since all Mariners are deathly allergic to anything in the air, or on the ground, in a park.

  52. jordan on April 22nd, 2013 7:44 pm

    For once I actually agree with pulling Felix a little early in the midst of a shut out. No need to use his magnificent arm on this game.

  53. BackRub on April 22nd, 2013 7:45 pm

    MrZDevotee. That says 6 games. But thats ok, the point is 3 games, 6 games, the start of this season, w/e they are just as valid time frames in that they are not valid. The amount of time tells you nothing. Interesting point about last year, but first he hit enough last year to be worth over 1 WAR. Is that a player, on this Mariners team, to be freaking out about?

    Second, why would you stop at last year? Obviously, a better sample would be his whole career following that train of thought. Over which his line is 238/307/348, which is an 85wRC+. That’s fine for a good fielder second baseman. He’s been worth 3.8 WAR over 2 seasons and hes 25. I think some people need to calm down.

    Also, his line over the last 6 games is now 364/364/455. SSSites can now be overjoyed.

  54. Section329 on April 22nd, 2013 7:50 pm

    What is your source for the info that Chris Chambliss died? He was the last hitting coach.

  55. stevemotivateir on April 22nd, 2013 7:52 pm

    Seriously, how does Bay not get cut when Saunders returns? They can’t possibly be dumb enough to let Chavez go, right? I suppose they could cut Ibanez, but given his salary and their stubbornness, I wouldn’t expect that.

  56. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 7:56 pm

    BackRub,
    None of that makes sense other than rationalizing what you want to believe.

    I mean, why would we evaluate Jason Bay over his last year, or two, and not his entire career?

    Or Ibanez?

    Should we judge Ryan off the .292 season he had when we signed him, or the fact that he’s batted half that since he came here? (Minor exaggeration, for effect)

    You make decisions based on the most info you can gather relevant to the current time frame. But NOT cutting off the numbers 3 games back, or 6 because they look better that way.

    Including ALL the days together is the smartest thing to do. Not drawing a line in the sand between the bad games and good ones. “Which guy is he?” Uh, he’s both guys– actually they’re one guy. And still not very good.

    I personally LOVE Dustin Ackley (I jokingly say my daughter is gonna marry him someday– and have his jersey). But I worry about what’s going on to turn an excellent, nee phenomenal, hitter into a confused guy scrapping at the plate.

    And it’s “degrees” of important, not “one set of info is valid and one isn’t”… Including Small Sample Size. Given ANY sample size, playing below replacement level is MORE of a reason to freak out, than playing way above replacement level… Think of it as “leaning one way or the other” and as the sample size gets bigger the swing of weight we give the data gets wider… So yeah, freakin’ out because there’s no reason this kid shouldn’t be hitting .292/.320/.470 or so, dependably. Going back to the 3rd grade, if you wanna go back that far.

  57. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:01 pm

    Steve-
    Agreed. If they DO cut Endy, I’m pretty sure Billy Beane will be drooling for him. Which I’m pretty sure would NOT be the case if they cut Bay.

    WHY oh WHY does the front office not see things this way? (Thoroughly confused.)

  58. stevemotivateir on April 22nd, 2013 8:04 pm

    A player who has sucked for three years, regardless of the reason or reasons, is not a player you evaluate based on his entire career -especially when it’s a guy in his mid 30′s.

  59. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:06 pm

    Steve
    (That was actually the point I was making… That it’s okay to judge a guy by his most recent numbers when there’s reason to believe the numbers are changing– maybe I didn’t phrase my sarcasm vividly enough? *laugh*)

  60. stevemotivateir on April 22nd, 2013 8:07 pm

    Z, The only thing I could see them arguing, poorly, is that Chavez hits left handed, and they may want a RHB off the bench. But they could solve that by ditching Ibanez or sending Smoak down. You could flip a coin to cut Bay or Ibanez, as far as I’m concerned. Both disappearing would be good.

  61. stevemotivateir on April 22nd, 2013 8:08 pm

    No, I followed ya Z. I was agreeing with you.

  62. Longgeorge1 on April 22nd, 2013 8:11 pm

    I think our offensive explosion tonight was more Peacock than M’s. What’s the Lastro’s starter look like tomorrow?

  63. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:12 pm

    And for the record, BackRub, if Dustin gets above .200 and stays above .200 I’m a happy happy man and the freakout ends. Could even be today, any minute now, that it starts. (Whoops, the chance just ended.)

    Buy anytime he’s looking bad at the plate and hitting .150-.170, I’m TOTALLY freaking out because something is wrong, and it’s NOT something wrong with Dustin Ackley.

    (And yet, getting back above .200 against the Astros is certainly worthy of a question mark/asterisk. It will lean me towards hope but not solidify that, until he sustains something similar through the Angels series– y’know, against real pitchers.)

  64. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:14 pm

    Ahh, that’s pretty nice of The Bartender to cover someone else’s shift for them, so they can have the night off. He’s a good co-worker to have.

  65. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 8:14 pm

    Nah, we know you, MrZ – the freakout will NEVER end. :-D

    (couldn’t resist…)

  66. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 8:15 pm

    The Angels pitchers can barely be considered real :)

  67. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 8:16 pm

    BTW it’s quite possible Guti will simply swap DL spots with Condor, in which case we’ll be afforded the privilege of continuing to see Jason Bay on our team for a few more weeks.

  68. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 8:17 pm

    Yay Felix! Nice to see win #100 come easily, even if it’s against another bunch of scrubs.

  69. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 8:18 pm

    I know this has been said, but seriously how does a team keep Morse, Ibanez, and Bay as 3 of the 5 OF when you know Guti’s history. Just unbelievable.

  70. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:19 pm

    Westy-
    Yeah, did you see in my SAME comment where I promised the freakout would end, I added the caveat that getting above .200 against the Astros probably doesn’t count.

    Can you tell I’m a Liberal? I flip-flop on everything! Well, not EVERYTHING.

    (See what I did there… Damn I’m good.)

  71. stevemotivateir on April 22nd, 2013 8:20 pm

    They should probably have a look at Thames. His defense can’t be much worse (if any) than Bay’s, but he’s hitting LHP and RHP real well in Tacoma right now. If Guti does go on the DL, I’d still like to see Bay or Ibanez go away.

  72. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:21 pm

    Westy–
    And THIS:

    “BTW it’s quite possible Guti will simply swap DL spots with Condor, in which case we’ll be afforded the privilege of continuing to see Jason Bay on our team for a few more weeks.”

    Totally uncalled for, just when we were feeling good about a 7-1 victory for the King. Big meanie!

  73. The_Waco_Kid on April 22nd, 2013 8:22 pm

    Westy, I was thinking that, but Saunders isn’t elegible til Sat I thought.

  74. MrZDevotee on April 22nd, 2013 8:23 pm

    I’m just gonna leave before I start thinking of all the stuff to be depressed about again… *laugh*

    Good win, M’s!

    Happy Iwakuma Day! (Tomorrow)

  75. stevemotivateir on April 22nd, 2013 8:25 pm

    I think it’s Friday Saunders is due.

  76. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 8:33 pm

    Wedge said Guti is possibly going on the DL.

    I’m guessing this might rush Saunders back. He’s eligible Friday I believe.

  77. BackRub on April 22nd, 2013 8:34 pm

    Well trying to trying to analyze a 25 year old with two years of experience and not including his first season of play is ridiculous, to start with.

    I’ll write this response for others who might read it. I am honestly hope that a certain section of the M’s fan-base doesn’t cause some kind of butteryfly effect that leads to Wedge, Jack Z et al. doing something unfortunate with Ackley.

    Just to spell out some obvious points, you don’t only consider career stats for older players because of aging curves. Ackley is at basically the ideal point in the aging curve so if anything we’d expect him to improve on career stats. You also don’t just consider career years, because why? The actual sample should be all data that is meaningful to the player Dustin Ackley is today. Ackley is the same player he was when he debuted, so the sample is his career.

    Now, some people might believe that Ackley isn’t an effective now as he was during his rookie year because the league adjusted or this and that reason. That would be incredibly interesting if someone could perform a careful study and find significant evidence for that. But your not going to find that by comparing batting lines across seasons.

    First, you need HUGE sample size to make those kinds of comparisons(see Nassim Taleb “Fooled by Randomness” for an interesting discussion of this issue). Second, there can be quite a bit of randomness in single-season batting lines. A much more valid approach for trying to decide if 2013 or 2012 Ackley is worse than 2011 Ackley is: evaluate his process and his stats that stabilize quickly.

    Ackley is still the fairly patient hitter who makes a decent amount of contact he was in 2011. In fact, his contact rates have improved every year(Although his rate this year needs more PAs to stabilize). Still has a healthy balance of hitting the ball in the air and ground(and line drives, but not a particularly stable stat). He doesn’t have the IFBs problems that Ryan and others do. The biggest difference is BABIP.

    Every one here should be aware of the degree to which BABIP can fluctuate from season to season. There’s not much solid evidence unrelated to BABIP pointing to Ackley being a different or worse hitter.

    Pitchers may have changed their approach to Ackley, realizing that he’ll chase high fastball or get caught looking on outside pitches. However, if that is hurting Dustin, it’s not showing up in contact rates, or plate discipline, or batted ball profile.(Or even hr/fb rate) These are the stable stats that matter.

    Nothing is certain in baseball, and potentially even less is certain with Mariner players. I’d still say the best bet is that Ackley settles around his career numbers this season, and perhaps has some slight age-related improvement. With his approach, the walks will come. Some more XBHs will happen. The hits will drop in. That’s what the odds say. You can bet against them if you want.

  78. easternWAmsfan on April 22nd, 2013 8:59 pm

    I think Ackley will be fine. Give him some time. With him and seager we have 2 solid infielders. In my opinion Ryan needs to go. I love his glove but he offers no upside offensive potential. Give Triunfel and franklin their chance but i think it’s brad miller who settles in as our SS eventually. Ackley can play 1b, 2nd and probably OF again if needed. Get rid of Ryan, bay and andino.. they have no part of the next M’s squad thay will contend. I’d say RAul too but the team won’t get rid of him until the trade deadline IMO

  79. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 9:04 pm

    I want to see Ackley become the hitter we all expected – but given some of the crap second basemen we’ve seen over the past seven or eight years, I will, if necessary, (sadly) live with a mediocre bat as long as it carries a good glove with it.

    But “mediocre” does not mean “Mendoza-like”.

  80. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 9:05 pm

    Oh no, Dave just basically said on Twitter that Peguero is coming up.

  81. Bodhizefa on April 22nd, 2013 9:13 pm

    We’re about to get Peguero’d.

    Boy I hate this team right now.

  82. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 9:19 pm

    You have GOT to be KIDDING.

  83. californiamariner on April 22nd, 2013 9:25 pm

    Hopefully, it is just for a few days until Saunders is back. But, why Peguero? There has to be a better option. At least Thames?

  84. gopilots70 on April 22nd, 2013 10:02 pm

    I would much rather see Thames called up than Peguero. He is hitting better right now and has been hot all season.

    And Eastern Washington M’s fan–be careful what you say about Brendan Ryan. Seems like most everyone on this site thinks he is an all star

    and they will let you know about it ad nauseum

  85. Typical Idiot Fan on April 22nd, 2013 10:15 pm

    As it was already stated, Peguero is probably only up here to fill space until Saunders comes off the bench. Who gives a shit who it is. What is Thames going to do in a few days that would be meaningful enough to pull him away from Tacoma only to send him right back down?

    Peggy will fill a brief need but not do anything consequential.

  86. gopilots70 on April 22nd, 2013 10:27 pm

    I think it is highly unlikely that Saunders comes off the DL on Friday. He is still throwing underhand

  87. Westside guy on April 22nd, 2013 10:49 pm

    Given that the team no longer values outfield defense – I really want to see Peggy play center field.

    If he collides with Raul or Bay he’ll most likely kill them, I realize… but it will be entertaining!

  88. msfanmike on April 23rd, 2013 8:49 am

    Peguero over Thames … interesting.

    Z-Wedge says, “Take that” blogosphere!”

  89. qwerty on April 23rd, 2013 9:05 am

    Can Smoak and Wilhemsen be parlayed into a decent OFer?

  90. Paul B on April 23rd, 2013 10:23 am

    Nobody is going to want Smoak. Certainly not give up anything of value for him.

    Adding junk to a pile doesn’t suddenly make the pile more valuable.

  91. eponymous coward on April 23rd, 2013 10:33 am

    There’s not THAT much difference between Thames and Peguero. So… meh.

  92. easternWAmsfan on April 23rd, 2013 10:47 am

    DINGERS..and K’S, but DINGERS?!

  93. qwerty on April 23rd, 2013 11:11 am

    PaulB, Wilhelmsen is junk? i.e. Houston loves former first rounders and New Opportunity guys.
    I’d think we could get a player.

    Speaking of that, JD Martinez could be gotten cheaply….he’s got to be better than anything we have at Tacoma.

  94. Westside guy on April 23rd, 2013 11:45 am

    Trading Wilhelmsen plus Smoak probably brings back less than just trading Wilhelmsen.

    It’s like last year when people would propose packaging Figgins with a quality player in a trade – somehow that was supposed to bring back more than just trading the quality player. But the other team knows quite well that not only is that player bad, but they’re going to have to jettison one of their existing players to give a slot to the bad player we’re trying to foist upon them.

    Other teams aren’t generally stupid, they know Smoak’s only marketable skill right now is tying up a roster spot.

  95. MrZDevotee on April 23rd, 2013 12:19 pm

    GoPilots-
    I though we talked about hyperbole? Yeah? We try to be accepting of your surface-mostly analysis and then you say things like: “Seems like most everyone on this site thinks he is an all star” about Brendan Ryan.

    Since we’re a site that relies on evidence, I’ll be encouraging and offer you $1000 for the first quote you can find on USSMariner where someone claims Brendan Ryan should be an All-Star.

    Ready… Go!

  96. MrZDevotee on April 23rd, 2013 12:21 pm

    Westy-
    “If he collides with Raul or Bay he’ll most likely kill them, I realize… but it will be entertaining!”

    You left out: “And actually cruelly efficiently effective in helping this team move forward.”

  97. gopilots70 on April 23rd, 2013 12:59 pm

    Possibly not hyperbole, but rather satire?

    Sorry, I just couldn’t resist throwing it in yesterday when you, as is your style, wildly over-reacted to and continually misquoted BackRub about his points about Ackley.

    You seem to think you run this site and that people should follow your “rules”

    Other than the articles by Dave, Mark, Jeff, et al, I see very little evidence about anything here, just people commenting on the game, making jokes and giving opinions about players, which is great.

    I enjoy commenting and, yes, occasionally making an outlandish statement in response to poor play. Big Deal! We are not working for the State Department.

    Please don’t feel you have to run the site. It has been doing just fine, and will continue to do so, without your monitoring.

  98. stevemotivateir on April 23rd, 2013 3:28 pm

    As it was already stated, Peguero is probably only up here to fill space until Saunders comes off the bench. Who gives a shit who it is.

    Really, the nastiness in your comments is unnecessary and annoying.

  99. MrZDevotee on April 23rd, 2013 6:10 pm

    Go Pilots-
    Uh, run the site? Is that the impression you get– just ’cause I stick it to you more than anyone else?

    Hey look– hyperbole! (It’s your gift it appears…)

    I’m not sure if you ask around anyone would say I run the site…? (Wha? That one made me laugh.)

    And what I was doing is pointing out the fallacy of BackRub’s arguments… Which actually weren’t arguments at all. And the funny think is he DID AGAIN what I pointed out he was doing (choosing when and which stats to use, to defend his argument, instead of even attempting to be objective).

    If you make dumb statements people call you out. Like I’ve suffered the past couple years of being here. (I’ve made some of the dumbest statements ever on this site– got brutalized fittingly for it.)

    (I’m still laughing about me attempting to run the site? Laughing at how much I know EVERYONE ELSE who’s a regular here will laugh at that… Because I was actually the guy everyone wanted to go away with my shallow points for along while– maybe still, actually?)

    But yeah. Okay, whatever.

    “Seems like most everyone on this site thinks he is an all star

    and they will let you know about it ad nauseum”

    Satire?

    You ARE a funny guy, just not usually the way you think you are. Maybe it’s just small sample size?

    (What’s funniest is that you missed my obvious use of hyperbole back at you– which was just poking fun… “I’ll give you $1000 if you find someone… blah, blah…”)

  100. qwerty on April 23rd, 2013 6:13 pm

    Westside, thanks. Explanation makes sense. I guess I consider Smoak to be ‘not quite junk’. I think of him as the still working bbq grill that the neighbor leaves out on the sidewalk. It’s not quite junk yet, and someone takes it home thinking they can clean it up and fire it up.

  101. gopilots70 on April 23rd, 2013 8:31 pm

    So your still trying to “win” your debate with Backrub from yesterday.

    And you’re still trying to prove to me that your analysis is so deep and mine is so “surface”

    And once again you misquote as you do every time you try to “stick it to someone”. Is that what you come here for?

    I didn’t say you run the site. I say you think you run the site. Big difference.

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