Game 57, Mariners at Twins

marc w · June 2, 2013 at 9:57 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Jeremy Bonderman vs. Scott Diamond 11:10am

When asked a few days ago who I thought would make this start, I answered Hector Noesi. Not because I have a lot of confidence in Noesi, but because Jeremy Bonderman was limping towards his contract’s finish line. Over his last four starts, Bonderman walked eight and struck out six. Oh well – welcome back, Jeremy.

Comparisons to Blake Beavan are too easy with Twins pitchers and their whiffless ways, but Scott Diamond is a lot like Blake Beavan. This year, he’s striking out less than 11% of opposing hitters while walking less than 5%. He’s a lefty with an 89mph fastball, a curveball he throws for strikes (duh) and a change for RHBs. Like Beavan, he often gets too much of the plate and serves up HRs.

1: Saunders CF
2: Bay LF
3: Seager 3B
4: Morales DH
5: Ibanez RF
6: Liddi 1B
7: Triunfel 2B
8: Sucre C
9: Ryan SS
SP: Bonderman

Erasmo Ramirez makes his first AAA start of the year today in Tacoma at 1:30. If you’re in the South Sound, that looks like a good game to attend.

Comments

81 Responses to “Game 57, Mariners at Twins”

  1. IHaveALittleProject on June 2nd, 2013 10:15 am

    Was it really wise to call up both Triunfel and Franklin and have them split playing time?

    I think not.

  2. Celadus on June 2nd, 2013 10:19 am

    Intimidating 6-9 in the order today, eh?

  3. maqman on June 2nd, 2013 10:22 am

    I’d prefer Beavan to Bonderman. Bonderman wasn’t that good before he went on the DL in 2010. I hope Ramirez can be ready soon.

    I’m guessing they are giving Triunfel a showing before he’s shipped back to Tacoma.

  4. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 10:46 am

    Also, Smoak went on the 15 day DL – so, for now, no other roster move was needed to get Bonderman on the 25 man.

  5. californiamariner on June 2nd, 2013 10:54 am

    Here’s to Erasmo! Replace Bonderman ASAP!

  6. djw on June 2nd, 2013 11:06 am

    Was it really wise to call up both Triunfel and Franklin and have them split playing time?

    I think not.

    Why not? Triunfel is extremely unlikely to ever offer anything beyond a utility infield position, and with a 40 man roster crunch, there was no reason to keep Andino AND Triunfel, who basically duplicate a single role.

  7. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 11:16 am

    Yes, we need Erasmo badly.

  8. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 11:20 am

    Nice to see Saunders starting to pull out of it.

    Too bad it went for naught though.

  9. californiamariner on June 2nd, 2013 11:21 am

    Man a lot of well hit balls that inning. If Bay’s line drive was a couple feet either way….

  10. pgreyy on June 2nd, 2013 11:24 am

    QUICK!!! GET ON THE PHONES AND LET’S TRADE BONDERMAN WHILE HE’S HOT!

    (I suppose that didn’t need to be shouted…but it probably won’t last.)

  11. californiamariner on June 2nd, 2013 11:27 am

    I bet Raul is playing because its his birthday.

  12. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 11:27 am

    Bondsman is facing a pretty bad line up. I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually looked decent today.

    If he does, I’m sure we’ll hear about veteran determination and grit and going about his business etc. etc. and of course Wedge will assume that’s his “normal” even if he sucks during his next ten starts…

  13. IHaveALittleProject on June 2nd, 2013 11:27 am

    “Why not? Triunfel is extremely unlikely to ever offer anything beyond a utility infield position, and with a 40 man roster crunch, there was no reason to keep Andino AND Triunfel, who basically duplicate a single role.”

    I would be fine with Triunfel in the utility role, but I’m not fine with him taking starts away from Franklin.

  14. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 11:38 am

    Wedge may have felt Franklin could use a day off. But yeah, hopefully he doesn’t get too many.

  15. msfanmike on June 2nd, 2013 11:40 am

    Although I cannot envision myself ever complaining about the lack of Smoak playing time, I do see a reason to be very critical of how his situation was handled. They were not sure of the severity of his injury, so they held him out for several days and then allowed him to pinch hit whereby he hit a 240′ pop up to LF, sat him again for a few days and then decided to out him on the DL. After his Pinch Hit appearance, the injury clock started ticking again.

    It’s a good thing there is no loss without him in the lineup, because if he was a productive player, that would have sure been a shitty way to handle his injury situation.

    And this is not hindsight. A lot of people could see that coming.

  16. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 11:42 am

    Sucre looks pretty good behind the plate!

  17. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 11:47 am

    That was a short pitching honeymoon.

  18. pgreyy on June 2nd, 2013 11:48 am

    …well, too late for my “Trade Bonderman quick” plan.

    And there’s my wife’s all-time favorite player out there in the field (where he should never be.)

    Go Raul! It’s your birthday! Play right field! It’s your birthday! (repeat)

  19. wilchiro on June 2nd, 2013 11:48 am

    Bonderman has made some good pitches, but he’s just not that great of a pitcher. Not surprised by the results today.

    Also would have been nice to have a run in the first inning, but Saunders had to get picked off.

  20. djw on June 2nd, 2013 11:50 am

    Whoever could have predicted that a reclamation project who can’t strike anyone out in AAA would get hammered in the majors?

  21. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 11:52 am

    Didn’t they just say Hector was up in the bullpen? What was the point of starting Bonderman again?

  22. californiamariner on June 2nd, 2013 11:54 am

    So would I be too optimistic to expect to never see another start by Bonderman?

  23. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 11:54 am

    If we play badly enough in the next couple weeks, would they fire Wedge? (NOT rooting for that, honest question)

  24. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 12:07 pm

    Well they haven’t fired him yet, Waco, so – I’d say no.

  25. kennyb on June 2nd, 2013 12:13 pm

    How good is Sucre defensively? Is he actually good or am I just happy to see a catcher that can catch the ball after years of Clement, Ben Davis, Olivo, and Montero?

  26. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:14 pm

    Not sure if the management is going to care if you are I do poorly in our office softball games*, but from the freakish twitching that Wedge’s upper lip’s been doing in these couple of hard losses, he feels the hot seat from the team’s results. They weren’t expected to do great by any sane evaluation, but there’ve been some poor decisions on his part which can be put on several unnecessary losses.

    *Sorry for the snark, but one of my pet peeves is saying ‘we’ when the team is being talked about. Guess it’s the nature of being a fan, though. Get the fans emotionally connected, and they’ll follow you through these dark times. Like, now.

  27. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:15 pm

    Well, shit. Morales needs to expect everything to be a single unless it’s a home run.

  28. djw on June 2nd, 2013 12:15 pm

    Did Morales look a bit more labored than usual while running to anyone else?

  29. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 12:16 pm

    We have the worst base coaches.

  30. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:17 pm

    Speaking of running the bases, I do appreciate that Raul runs out every hit to first base, even when it’s obvious he’s out. Like to see that energy from players half his age.

    Morales is probably tired from playing first.

  31. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 12:18 pm

    I like Kendrys, but I wouldn’t mind if we didn’t have so many really slow guys.

  32. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 12:19 pm

    If your last name starts with Mo, you’re extremely slow.

  33. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 12:20 pm

    Also sMOak

  34. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:21 pm

    I haven’t been following this heartwarming comeback story. Does Bonderman have to stay on the big league club to retain the privilege of his service?

  35. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 12:22 pm

    I take back my earlier comments about Bonderman. This may be an AAA lineup he’s facing, but I forgot he wasn’t even good facing AAA hitters.

    Juneau, Bonderman had a June 1 opt out if he wasn’t in the majors. So we will probably see him every fifth day from here on out because that’s how Z rolls.

  36. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:25 pm

    *shudder* at every 5th day.

    It feels much later in the game. At this rate, the Twins easily score double digits.

  37. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 12:25 pm

    Waco that’s pretty funny.

  38. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:37 pm

    Will Bonderman be pulled before those double digits are run up?

  39. SonOfZavaras on June 2nd, 2013 12:38 pm

    Erasmo Ramirez can’t be ready too soon.

  40. californiamariner on June 2nd, 2013 12:38 pm

    Ok it was nice to give Bonderman a chance. Now get rid of him.

  41. jak924 on June 2nd, 2013 12:39 pm

    Another fine mess.

  42. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 12:41 pm

    Good to have him back, Sim??? Really???

    I don’t know about you, but it’s not all been grins and giggles this morning for me. More like rants and raves.

  43. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 12:45 pm

    ROOT Sports employees are required to be positive and upbeat in order to maintain the family environment that is Mariners baseball.

  44. msfanmike on June 2nd, 2013 12:45 pm

    Bonderman -sweet!!!

    It would have been a gosh darned shame to have that talent opt out on June 1.

    He didn’t really show much in AAA to deserve a callup other than not getting hurt.

  45. eponymous coward on June 2nd, 2013 12:47 pm

    Whocouldanode that the M’s have a crappy back of the rotation and inconsistent offense that would sink the season?

    Even the pointy-head sabremetics guys who haven’t played since they were 9 years old didn-oh, wait…

  46. msfanmike on June 2nd, 2013 12:47 pm

    They sure do pump up Brad Miller as a prospect (and I am hopeful too) but he has 4 errors in 8 AAA games and he had 15 errors in AA this season. Is he really a legit prospect to stick at SS?

  47. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 12:47 pm

    But Mike – he came ready to play every day. And I’m sure he went about his business like a professional.

    Those ARE what the 2013 Mariners are all about, aren’t they? It’s not about results…

  48. msfanmike on June 2nd, 2013 12:49 pm

    Correction – he had 9 errors at AA. I got his defensive stats mixed up with Taylor’s (high Desert).

  49. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 12:55 pm

    From what I’ve heard he sounds better than Franklin at least, and likely to stick at SS. He looked good in Spring Training.

  50. greentunic on June 2nd, 2013 12:56 pm

    That’s one reason I love football broadcasts. You get honest commentary on all players. Baseball you get the homer effect. Basketball is even worse.

  51. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 1:01 pm

    Nice catch by Bay!

  52. californiamariner on June 2nd, 2013 1:04 pm

    What’s the latest you guys have heard on Hultzen? Seems like there hasn’t been much news on him. It’s been over a month now since he pitched.

  53. SonOfZavaras on June 2nd, 2013 1:06 pm

    This game is in the dumper. Has been for a few innings. I’m gonna go outside, do yardwork and mow my lawn. It’ll be more entertaining.

    And I hate yardwork and mowing lawns.

  54. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 1:07 pm

    Hultzen was throwing a couple weeks ago. I think he’s in Arizona.

  55. msfanmike on June 2nd, 2013 1:07 pm

    Good analysis by Blowers in regard to Triunfel tapping his glove on the run. What the hell was Triunfel doing in that situation. On the run sideways, leaning – and he goes to the glove tap?

    WTF.

    I would be curious to head what WTF M’s has to say about that play named in his honor.

  56. currcoug on June 2nd, 2013 1:09 pm

    I suspect Z called up Triunfel to “show him” for a minor trade. I imagine Miller will be here sooner than later.

    I don’t see how Zduriencik, let alone Wedge, survives this…

  57. SonOfZavaras on June 2nd, 2013 1:11 pm

    What’s the latest you guys have heard on Hultzen? Seems like there hasn’t been much news on him. It’s been over a month now since he pitched.

    Last I heard was through Drayer…he’s in extended ST. Probably go right back to AAA Tacoma when he’s ready for game pitching. He has to be close, I’d think.

    (Although an injury that doesn’t get copious amounts of follow-up? It often seems to be a situation that’s a lot worse than what’s being said. REALLY hope that’s not the case with Hultzen. We’ve had enough bad news this year, thank you.)

  58. currcoug on June 2nd, 2013 1:26 pm

    Well, at least we don’t have to worry about a save situation today…

  59. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 1:31 pm

    There’s the double digits.

  60. wilchiro on June 2nd, 2013 1:42 pm

    2013 Seattle Mariners – Stay true to the blue, come ready to play, and have fun!

  61. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 1:44 pm

    Man, we’ve struggled against the Angels, Padres, Twins, and even the Astros. Now I’m worried about the Cubs.

  62. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 1:47 pm

    It’s almost over?

  63. eponymous coward on June 2nd, 2013 1:50 pm

    10-run mercy rule?

  64. Westside guy on June 2nd, 2013 1:51 pm

    This game is over… For me, at least.

    See y’all next time.

  65. jak924 on June 2nd, 2013 1:59 pm

    Prediction: M’s will have a new manager as soon as the plane lands at Sea-Tac.

  66. juneau_fan on June 2nd, 2013 2:03 pm

    From your fingers to the baseball gods’ ears, jak924.

  67. wilchiro on June 2nd, 2013 2:17 pm

    Wait until the end of the year, wait and see if any of the young guys develop, and if not we fire Zduriencik and Wedge and look at getting Thad Levine or David Forst.

  68. eponymous coward on June 2nd, 2013 2:52 pm

    Wait until the end of the year, wait and see if any of the young guys develop, and if not we fire Zduriencik and Wedge and look at getting Thad Levine or David Forst.

    And we go ahead and ignore the fact that they did a terrible job of putting together a roster for the 2013 Mariners why, exactly?

    Bill Bavasi managed to develop Felix Hernandez, and signed Adrian Beltre to a good deal. Didn’t make him a good GM.

    Even if you handwave a Franklin, Zunino, Miller or Hultzen into a good MLB player by year’s end, this organization’s got serious holes: there’s nobody in the OF worth a damn behind Saunders who is here long-term and under 30, the rotation is lame right now, and the current manager has a track record of being bad at his craft (and like it or not, if you think Wedge is a bad manager, he’s Zduriencik’s fault).

    At this point, you have what you have in Jack Zduriencik, and it ain’t Billy Beane or Jon Daniels. His record is developed enough to make a call on him now, and 4 months of continued play in 2013 isn’t really going to change that. The M’s have not really taken much of a step forward from where they were in 2008: they still have busted high draft picks (Clement/Ackley), young players who can’t stick in MLB because they don’t seem to develop much (Lopez/Montero), questionable trades (Bedard/Morrow/Fister), and philosophies that don’t produce winning teams. They’ve gotten at best incrementally better by not making really mind-bogglingly stupid decisions, but being a D student in MLB GM might be better than being an F student like Bavasi, but it still isn’t going to get you to the postseason unless you get lucky.

    Four months of 2013 doesn’t change the previous four+ years. At this point, you can make the call, or decide it’s worth going down this road again in 2014.

  69. HighlightsAt11 on June 2nd, 2013 4:00 pm

    Mariners are a Mess. I suspect there will be competition to gain Morales services. Why would he want to sign with the Mariners, unless the Ms made a crazy over-the-top offer? But then not have enough to fund filling the glaring holes in the rest of the roster. Mariners are a Mess.

  70. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 4:32 pm

    It’s a weird situation. I’m not sure anyone in baseball is better at building a farm system than Jack Z. But his management of major leaguers is not looking good.

  71. MrZDevotee on June 2nd, 2013 4:43 pm

    Z is what he is… A damned fine scout/draft analyst.

    As he always was… Pretty clear that the “wonder what type of GM he’d make” plan is nearing completion. Montero’s path sort of parallels Z’s at this point. (Or should… At least.) Tons of potential, everyone saw his talent, but the execution just hasn’t been up to expectations.

    I said it once before, but it’s a shame it’s not likely a GM would consider stepping down to become the director of scouting.

    I’m not really a big NFL guy, but it would be great to get a team like the Seahawks have to be our new GM and Manager.

    Or hey, maybe Chris Hansen wants to own a baseball team, instead? He seems to be good at putting quality, forward-thinking people together who then do good work. And he seems to impress just about anyone who comes in contact with him. Buy our team, Chris!

  72. stevemotivateir on June 2nd, 2013 5:12 pm

    They’ve gotten at best incrementally better by not making really mind-bogglingly stupid decisions, but being a D student in MLB GM might be better than being an F student like Bavasi, but it still isn’t going to get you to the postseason unless you get lucky.

    That might be the most perfect description of what we’ve seen regarding Jack yet… a ‘Grade D’ GM.

    My patience is gone. I really don’t care how Zunino, Walker, Franklin, Hultzen, etc. pan out. We’ve see a flurry of bad moves, cheap moves, and desperate moves. Nothing he has done reflects competence to construct a ML franchise.

    The sooner we move on from this era, the sooner we can focus on 2014.

  73. eponymous coward on June 2nd, 2013 8:13 pm

    I’m not sure anyone in baseball is better at building a farm system than Jack Z. But his management of major leaguers is not looking good.

    Isn’t the point of a farm system to produce major leaguers?

    Also, the 2012 Mariners opening day lineup had 4 position players under 28 in it. Of those 4 players, one (MIchael Saunders) is on the M’s active roster today. Two of them (Ackley and Montero) have been sent down to AAA, one of them (Smoak) is on the DL and is well into a career of producing at replacement-level (in other words: we could send him down to Tacoma too and not really be any worse for it). (Seager wasn’t in the lineup.)

    This isn’t the hallmark of a productive minor league system…

  74. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 10:07 pm

    Baseball America says we’re #2 in baseball, but what do they know? Results matter and I’m tired of waiting, too, but I think we’re about to produce several major leaguers. Maybe we need a new GM for better trades and signings, but I’m thrilled to have Z at the helm for the draft this week.

  75. MrZDevotee on June 2nd, 2013 10:29 pm

    “This isn’t the hallmark of a productive minor league system…”

    Exactly. There’s something messed up in our system. I’d like to see someone come in and rebuild our entire minor leagues, both on the field and at the operational level. Something’s wrong. There is a systematic flaw, when a group of young prospects can be consistently ranked highly by national publications, perform well at the minor league level initially, and then not have ANY of their performances translate to the major league level (Saunders and Seager being the exceptions, but not from the “highly touted” crew).

    Something in the way we prepare our minor leaguers for Major League baseball leaves them unprepared when they reach that level.

    I’m not able to offer a guess what the problem is, but it’s gone on for a very long time now, so coincidence seems like an unlikely cause. And even when people point to former Mariners who have succeeded after leaving here (Jones, Cabrera…) neither were enjoying much success when they were here. Which isn’t to say they wouldn’t have, but history seems to point to something in our system that would have “coached” them into under-performing. Because the guys who stay here do just that.

    Or look at Montero, his OPS+ for 2013 so far (68 in 101 AB’s) is 100 pts lower than 2 years ago with the Yankees (.328/.406/.590, an OPS+ of 163 in 61 AB’s)… So it’s not like he’s shown that he can’t hit major league pitching– why is he lost at the plate NOW that he’s in Seattle?

    Look at Saunders– he may be an excellent example actually– he’s seen a spike in his offensive performance, after going OUTSIDE the system for help, and then recently, well into the season, living back in our system, for whatever reason he’s begun to struggle again?

    It’s odd. But something must be wrong. Something is wrong when guys DECIDE TO GO OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM… Young players think “if I’m gonna get better I need more help than these guys can give me.” If I’m gonna get better I need advice from a B-level MLB player’s brother. And he did- he got better.

    I’m not blaming anyone at this point, but the system is broken. New owners, new management, and a new manager couldn’t possibly do worse at this point, with the same players (could they?)…

    So yeah, I’m ready for any and all of that.

    And it would hang Z out there in “lame duck” land, but it’s not like we’d be handicapping him somehow– given the direction we’re already headed. I kinda would be okay with getting it out there public that Z and Wedge’s contracts aren’t going to be renewed at the end of the year. That way their replacements, whomever may be interested, will know this opportunity is wide open. “Come help us. We’re broken.”

    And… the situation of replacing them can go into high gear immediately, and hopefully miss as little time as possible in pursuing free agents and trades during the coming off season. Because, honestly, it’s a horrible time to replace our GM and manager when we have tons of holes to fill for 2014. And the money to address it, too, if only the right people were in place.

  76. The_Waco_Kid on June 2nd, 2013 11:38 pm

    I mostly agree, MrZ. Our prospects don’t seem to be developing. However, with Franklin up, and Zunino, Romero, and Miller not far behind, we’ll soon get a larger sample to judge from.

    My main problem with firing Z is that I don’t trust ownership to find a better GM. Help us, Chris Hansen!

  77. currcoug on June 3rd, 2013 8:57 am

    Zduriencik merits heavy criticism for the botched trades of Morrow, Cliff Lee and Fister, as well as the disastrous Figgins free agent contract. It is hard to blame Jack for Montero…most GM’s would have made that trade.

    Signing Josh Fields was a bad mistake as well…hell, we could have had Ackley, Trout and Franklin in the 2009 draft.

  78. greentunic on June 3rd, 2013 9:13 am

    The Trout point is unfair but ya I also was disappointed when we picked up Fields and didn’t take someone else.

    A reliever first round? Who does that?

  79. currcoug on June 3rd, 2013 10:05 am

    If Zduriencik hadn’t signed Josh Fields, the Mariners would have received a compensatory pick ahead of the Angels, and could have selected Trout. We know that Trout was on the Mariners’ radar, per Jack himself.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/how-los-angeles-angels-hooked-rookie-phenom-mike-trout-in-mlb-draft-051212

  80. eponymous coward on June 3rd, 2013 12:50 pm

    Baseball America says we’re #2 in baseball, but what do they know?

    I remember #6org. Ah, those were the days… when we thought anything GMZ touched would turn into gold (plus some throw-ins who would turn out much better than we thought at first).

    It is hard to blame Jack for Montero…most GM’s would have made that trade.

    It’s not the trade so much, as this: it was very clear last year that Montero’s not a catcher, and playing him at C is wasting everyone’s time (especially since Montero’s probably going to need a while to develop as a hitter). Nonetheless, we went into 2013 with Montero as the everyday catcher, and now we’re playing a guy in Shoppach who should not be an everyday catcher (he hasn’t been an everyday catcher since 2008, and he’s very clearly a backup). That’s a pretty clear roster fail right there.

  81. stevemotivateir on June 3rd, 2013 12:54 pm

    @currcoug

    But it’s still hindsight and not a guarantee.

    Totally agree that signing Fields was a mistake, but I don’t hold too much against Jack for that. You can throw it on the pile of mistakes he’s made, and there’s already plenty to dismiss him (the trades alone probably do it!), but that one holds less weight, IMHO.

    Not to sound like a broken record, but I still feel like trading Jaso and not signing Swisher and Bourn were the most damning (Yeah, I know that’s hindsight as well, but we already knew those players were good). Glad he failed to land Hamilton -and later Upton, but it still amazes me that he could offer so much for those two while passing on other really good players that were affordable, going the cheap route instead.

    Some might argue the production from our left fielders has been good, but I would argue the defense from Ibanez and Bay hasn’t been, and the offense is more of a bandage. We’ll be facing the same problem this offseason and beyond. Nobody can say Ibanez, Bay, and Chavez figure in to the long term plan. Morse is a stretch as well, especially as an outfielder.

    Not trading for pitching was understandable. Passing on Garland was understandable and the injury to Ramirez couldn’t have been foreseen. So I don’t fault him as much for the pitching situation, and I still believe it will be in pretty good shape for 2014 -the year that was more likely to be competitive than 2013 anyway, given the position/development of guys like Hultzen, Walker, Miller, Romero, Franklin, and Zunino.

    I guess my point is that there’s plenty of reasons to ditch Jack. Most of it’s fair, some (little) might not be. The hindsight just amplifies it.

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