Game 80, Cubs at Mariners

marc w · June 28, 2013 at 5:05 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Hisashi Iwakuma vs. Travis Wood, 7:10pm

I looked at the pitching probables and saw “Chi: Wood” and instantly thought of Kerry Wood. He hasn’t pitched for the Cubs in years, and retired and all of that, but still…if you weren’t watching baseball in the late 90s, you missed one of the most incredible debuts in baseball history. Wood’s 20 strikeout game came in his 5th big league start, and it is by some measures the best pitched 9-inning game ever. So, uh, yeah, good thing the M’s are facing Travis Wood.

Wood’s had something of an odd career path so far. He came up with Cincinnati and was an above-average starter for half a year in 2010. That faded to something more like average for another half year in 2011, and then deteriorated to “bad” last year with Chicago. He’s a lefty with a straight, rising 90mph fastball who is about as grounder-averse as they come. Predictably, his results tend to be more volatile – if a bunch of fly balls go over the fence, his ERA and, especially, his FIP suffer. If they stay in the yard, he looks decent (think of Blake Beavan’s quality-start streak in his first half-season). This year, they’ve stayed in the yard, and Wood comes into the game with an ERA under 3 and a solidly above-average FIP.

He throws a very straight 90mph four-seam fastball, a straight, almost rising sinker with enough vertical movement that you figure Wood doesn’t quite get either the concept or the execution of a sinker, a slider, and a flurry of cutters. He throws the occasional change as well, but he throws about 30% cutters to both righties and lefties, along with 50-60% fastballs. So far this year, he’s benefited from a ludicrously low BABIP, but he’s helped himself by cutting back on free passes as well. Unlike with the Pirates hurlers in the last season, there’s really not much of a mechanical or strategic cause to point to for the changes in his results. His pitch mix hasn’t really changed. His delivery’s become more over-the-top, less 3/4, but that’s been a gradual shift since he came up, not a big move in 2013. Thus, the BABIP and HR/FB (both numbers are career bests for Wood) look a lot better as suspects.

Enough about Wood. Today’s going to be remembered by M’s fans for the line-up – both who’s in it and where they’re playing. Brad Miller makes his debut for the M’s in the starting line-up, batting 9th. Dustin Ackley gets his first start since his return from Tacoma too, and he’ll play center-field. I’m not clear on what Ackley’s done in the past day – he may have needed to prove to Wedge that he could handle playing CF in a spacious park, but I thought it was notable that he’ll debut against a lefty, and not the righty Jeanmar Gomez. Oh well. This may be the first start of a long-term double-play combo for the M’s, and hopefully this could be the first game of many for Ackley in the OF.

Line-up:
1: Chavez, RF
2: Franklin, 2B
3: Seager, 3B
4: Morales, 1B
5: Ibanez, DH
6: Bay, LF
7: Ackley, CF
8: Zunino, C
9: Miller, SS
SP: Iwakuma

That’s actually one of the most watchable line-ups the M’s have trotted out in quite a while. Ibanez DH’ing, Franklin, Zunino, Miller all in the line-up, Ackley in CF…this game’s not short on storylines.

The 40-man move to get Miller was announced – Josh Kinney’s been outrighted to Tacoma. As a guy still rehabbing his way back, that’s probably smart; if they’re able to slip someone through waivers, he’d be the one to slip.
[Edit: The 40-man move is actually the DFA'ing of 3B Alex Liddi. The power hitting Italian really regressed this year, particularly in contact skills. We'll see if he gets through waivers.]

James Paxton starts tonight in Tacoma. Hultzen started last night, Tai Walker a few days before that (yes, I’ll have a recap of that – just have to wait until MillerMania dies down a bit) and Paxton winning the PCL pitcher of the week recently, the M’s pitching depth is finally rounding into form.

Chance Ruffin and Anthony Fernandez start for Jackson in a double-header, while Thyago Vieira and Tyler Pike start for Everett and Clinton, respectively. Good day in the organization.

Go M’s

Comments

197 Responses to “Game 80, Cubs at Mariners”

  1. BillyJive on June 28th, 2013 5:10 pm

    You left out goodbye Alex Liddi….

  2. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 5:21 pm

    Addio, Alex Liddi…

  3. scraps on June 28th, 2013 5:39 pm

    Right now the Indians are leading the White Sox 16 to 10. And they’re still going (top of the eighth). It’s like a PCL game!

  4. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 5:53 pm

    I think Franklin is the best SS of the “Big Three” but Miller needs his shot, so overall I’m very happy. I hope Miller surprises me at SS but I could see Franklin at SS, Ackley at 2B, and Miller who has speed in the outfield. Actually if all three hit put them anywhere. PLEASE HIT!!

  5. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 5:59 pm

    How does J. Montero have a better dWAR than Chavez, M.Saunders and Guti?

  6. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 6:07 pm

    Longgeorge-
    Doesn’t catcher get the highest adjustment value? (Most valuable position)

    Only thing I can think would cause that.

  7. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 6:08 pm

    Scraps
    Are you sure that isn’t the Browns versus the Bears circa 1963?

  8. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 6:23 pm

    I’m actually surprised Liddi got the axe. But it’s not like he was showing anything that suggests he could be a real useful piece.

  9. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 6:24 pm

    I think Franklin is the best SS of the “Big Three” but Miller needs his shot, so overall I’m very happy.

    There was a big three?!

  10. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 6:36 pm

    Great article, Marc. It really is a day to look forward to the future M’s with Jack Z.’s young talent on the cusp of contributing in a, hopefully, big way.

    I loved the line about “don’t know what Dustin Ackley has done in the past day”. I think this small thing exemplifies the ineptitude of Eric Wedge’s ability to get the best out of players.

    In theory, Dustin Ackley was recalled because he is a hot hitter and has regained confidence. So what does the manager do? Sit him for three days. Bench him against a righty and start him against a lefty.

    Yes, it is really an “oh well” move because we have seen this kind of “logic” for years now.

    Good luck Dustin, Nick, and Brad and hope you can overcome major league pitching, defensive challenges, and an incompetent manager.

  11. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 6:45 pm

    In fairnest Ackley is back up because of Guti’s injury, not so much because was a hot hitter. I doubt he would have been recaalled yet if it wasn’t for that.

  12. scraps on June 28th, 2013 6:49 pm

    I’m done with Jack Z, but I do know he has strengths, so if Seattle wants to stay with him, shrug. But Wedge has got to go. Seriously, I know that managers are overrated, but is there anything that Wedge does well?

  13. FelixFanChris420 on June 28th, 2013 6:50 pm

    Wow anyone else hear that quote from Wedge on the pregame?

    “I’m sick of talking about approach…guys just have to hit.”

    W-O-W…

  14. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 6:52 pm

    I read somewhere that the main thing with Ackley before inserting him was to get him acclimated with the Safeco outfield dimensions, plus he got to Seattle after batting practice the first day.

    Excuses? Maybe. Does that mean he can’t play the outfield until the 2nd trip through every out-of-town ballpark? Don’t know. But that was the official line.

  15. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 6:56 pm

    Scraps-
    I’ve always felt that managers don’t in and of themselves (with their particular ideas) amount to wins, the talent provides that when used wisely– but the non-good ones can certainly COST you wins with poor decisions how to use your talent, or wrong ideas about how to play winning baseball, and bad notions of what winning rosters look like. (Insert larger-than-life photo of Wedge here)

  16. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 7:02 pm

    Yes, and I am very sure that the players are incredibly sick of Eric Wedge talking about approach. Or really anything for that matter

  17. FelixFanChris420 on June 28th, 2013 7:06 pm

    Miller, Franklin, Zunino, Ackley in CF…

    first time I’ve been *intrigued* by a Mariners game not pitched by Felix in a loooooooong time…

  18. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 7:06 pm

    And if you really believe the manager’s “official line” you may be eligible for a job with Root Sports. And be sure to spew it convincingly when you regurgitate it. You are hired!

  19. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 7:08 pm

    The season is over – has been for some time. The fact that Wedge is still running a mostly old outfield out there all the time just reinforces how out of touch he is.

    Bay isn’t going to be part of this team long term. Neither is Raul. Run the young guys out there and let them sink or swim.

  20. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 7:17 pm

    Not that I totally disagree with the season being over but what young guys are being blocked by Bay and Raul?

  21. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 7:18 pm

    ^Let’s hope Bay and Raul aren’t part of the long term!

    I’ve been real curious how Romero has progressed in the outfield. Maybe Rainiers_Fan, or Marc, can update us? Could he see Seattle before too long as well?

  22. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 7:24 pm

    Julio Morban is the Mariner OF prospect I’d like to see someday– but he won’t be ready this year, except maybe a “cup of coffee” depending on how many of our gritty outfielders explode before the end of the year (besides Guty 2 or 3 more times). He’s the first 4 or 5 toolsy guy we’ve had in the outfield in a LONG time.

  23. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 7:25 pm

    In my mind, they need to figure out which version of Saunders is the real one Terry. This year makes the most sense to so that.

    And, really, while I didn’t have high expectations for Thames… I thought he deserved more of a chance than he got.

  24. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 7:25 pm

    he;s running a 289/348/451 line right now Steve. Well, below what Franklin and Miller were running before they came up.

  25. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 7:26 pm

    It’s Buhner – prepare for a lt of “squishy” talk!

  26. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 7:31 pm

    Just ‘eyeballing” – been to Tacoma a few times- I don’t see any more position players that would be an upgrade. Poythress at 1B (no) I don’t see any OF better than Endy or M. Saunders

  27. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 7:31 pm

    Ugh, that’s so Mariners.

  28. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 7:33 pm

    P.S. Erasmo is ready and Hultzen could need just three starts.

  29. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 7:34 pm

    I don’t disagree with your logic on Saunders, Westy.

  30. scraps on June 28th, 2013 7:40 pm

    Brown – Bears Indians – White Sox are done: 19-10. Game time: 4:02

  31. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 7:43 pm

    On a side note – given that we keep hearing what a strong farm system the Mariners now have… where ARE all the outfield prospects?

  32. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 7:50 pm

    I’ve seen his line, Terry. It’s his defense I’d like to hear more about.

  33. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 7:51 pm

    Had to ask THAT question didn’t you.

  34. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 7:53 pm

    I wonder if Head’n'Shoulders signed CJ to a multi-year deal? They might regret it as much as the Angels…

    Oh… Actually he’s not doing bad. Pitching baseballs, anyway.

  35. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 7:54 pm

    After Westy’s outfield question…

    Peguero comes running up, tongue wagging, like a happy Golden Retriever… Knocking you off your feet…

    “Here I am… Here I am… Here I am…”

  36. Will Lofton on June 28th, 2013 7:54 pm

    “The season is over – has been for some time. The fact that Wedge is still running a mostly old outfield out there all the time just reinforces how out of touch he is.”

    I don’t defend Wedge on a lot of issues, but this team has five outfielders right now – Ibañez, Chavez, Bay, Saunders and Ackley. Saunders hasn’t done anything to warrant any playing time at all. So on most days, you’re going to be looking at an outfield with two or more of the veterans. Don’t blame Wedge for constructing such an awful roster, blame Zduriencik.

  37. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 7:55 pm

    I’ve only seen him play a few times Steve, not nearly enough to make a call on his defense. He looked average to me.

  38. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 7:55 pm

    Shut up, Bone. Just shut up.

  39. jeffs98119 on June 28th, 2013 7:56 pm

    Bone just said he got squishy–on his first at bat!!! This kid is a future superstar for sure!

  40. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 7:58 pm

    “That was pitch number 45 for Travis Wood; his effectiveness may start slipping, as he holds opposing hitters to a .177 average in the first 45 pitches but they hit .211 off him after that. ”

    The Scouting Report pop-up on gameday. Thought you’d all get a kick out of that.

  41. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 8:01 pm

    Don’t blame Wedge for constructing such an awful roster, blame Zduriencik.

    You don’t think Wedge played a direct role in shaping this outfield? You think Jack alone made the choice to go with Bay and ditch Wells?

    They’re equally to blame. The made this bed, they can lie in it together.

  42. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:02 pm

    Actually Saunders started hitting a little while before Wedge started sitting him. When I checked his seven days stats a week ago, the average was .286. Today, it’s .313. If the line is “you have to start hitting to keep playing”… he started hitting (with little power, admittedly), and that was the time Wedge picked to start sitting him.

    That’s the problem – the timing made very little sense.

  43. scraps on June 28th, 2013 8:02 pm

    See, Seattle’s outfield stance is one of Jack Z’s horrible mistakes, and everybody knew even at spring training (at least, everybody with eyes open). Now we need a rebuild, and yet we can’t get rid of oldsters Jason Bay and Raul Ibanez, and nobody will give us much of anything in trade for Bay or Ibanez, and of course we don’t have anything in the minors ready. No outfielders! Because the front office actually thought that we were at the cusp of playoffs! I… I mean… garrrgh!!!

  44. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 8:04 pm

    The point about playing Saunders is to see if he can find himself, play more like he did last season. Given that the season is lost, and literally none of the other current options should be here next year, I think it makes perfect sense to stick with Saunders for now.

  45. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 8:04 pm

    Although it is Z’s responsibility to keep the minors stocked with enough position guys that SOMEBODY other than our starting 2B on opening day can play CF at the major league level.

  46. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 8:07 pm

    Is it just me, or is it really weird seeing the line-up with Zunino and Miller at the bottom? That’s where they should be, but it really looks odd!

  47. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:08 pm

    MrZ, I think the organizational philosophy may be “take care of first and second base, and the rest will take care of itself”!

  48. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 8:10 pm

    Little Nicky!!

  49. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:10 pm

    Man, Nick is looking like the real deal, isn’t he!

  50. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 8:16 pm

    Westy-
    Great idea… Smoak is more athletic than Morse and Ibanez, why isn’t HE playing left or right field?

  51. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 8:16 pm

    Mr. Z: *shudder*

  52. Will Lofton on June 28th, 2013 8:17 pm

    “You don’t think Wedge played a direct role in shaping this outfield? You think Jack alone made the choice to go with Bay and ditch Wells?”

    I don’t know if he did. None of us do. I do know that Jack Z is in charge of acquiring the players and assembling a team. I know that Wedge’s job is to manage the team that he puts together.

    And you’re trying to tell me that you’d rather have Casper Wells and his 11 wRC+ over Jason Bay? You need to let that go, we were all wrong about that. Three teams have ditched Wells this year, so the Mariners weren’t alone on that one.

  53. dogkahuna on June 28th, 2013 8:19 pm

    Buhner should have to pass a field-sobriety test to enter the broadcast booth. Former bartender here….

  54. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:20 pm

    I have to admit… even if Wedge had a large role in picking the roster, in the end that falls on Z too – for giving the manager that level of control.

  55. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 8:23 pm

    So one of our up and coming players leads off the bottom of the fourth with a line drive double hitting from his “weak” side of the plate.

    In my mind, I was reminded of early 2000′s Bret Boone who always seemed to bring life to the team with a leadoff double when the offense was struggling. I have seen Nick do it a few times. Also, thought about how that right-handed swing looked pretty good.

    Then another of our young hopefuls, Seager, get called out on a questionable call.

    What did we get from the crack announcing squad in the bottom of 4. 1)Promos for the old timers day with lots of giggling and Buhner’s “bueno mano” joke again. 2) Promos for the next homestand. 3) Shots of the fireworks being placed in position–leading to another promo that the fireworks could be seen on the postgame show.

    And that ends the bottom of the fourth.

    And, oh yeah, I we had to watched Franklin’s double on replay because the antics in the booth by two of the “95 M’s” were more important.

  56. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 8:25 pm

    Juneau-
    I know, the fact that Smoak should NEVER do that sort of puts in perspective how dumb it is to have one of those other two out there EVERY FRICKIN’ day. But again, no real choice with the roster as it’s built.

    I bet Ibanez would even say he wishes he wasn’t playing in the field so much. (Okay, maybe not, but he should say that…)

  57. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:25 pm

    Hey, a run! And we got to see it!

  58. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 8:25 pm

    Bay: “Casper who?!”

    (homerun trot)

  59. Slats on June 28th, 2013 8:25 pm

    Jason Bay!

  60. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 8:26 pm

    Ackley: 0-2, it’s like he never left…

  61. Will Lofton on June 28th, 2013 8:31 pm

    Brad Miller seems like a guy that would play in the 1900s, not the 2000s…

  62. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 8:37 pm

    Nice catch Brad!!

  63. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:38 pm

    I get a kick out of stories like Miller’s where one of his teammates (Hultzen in this case) was so demonstrably happy for his teammate’s success.

  64. pgreyy on June 28th, 2013 8:43 pm

    Is Angie pre-gaming for the fireworks?

  65. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 8:44 pm

    “The ROOT Sports equivalent of us missing the cutoff man” – Angie says as they totally screw up her cut-in. Funny.

  66. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 8:45 pm

    Angie continues to be one of the better athletes on the team.

  67. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 8:51 pm

    Angie is great.

  68. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 8:56 pm

    I don’t know if he did. None of us do. I do know that Jack Z is in charge of acquiring the players and assembling a team. I know that Wedge’s job is to manage the team that he puts together.

    So, Wedges comments about wanting Ibanez and wanting Bay, should be discarded? Of course he discussed things with Jack.

    And you’re trying to tell me that you’d rather have Casper Wells and his 11 wRC+ over Jason Bay? You need to let that go, we were all wrong about that. Three teams have ditched Wells this year, so the Mariners weren’t alone on that one.

    You completely missed the point. It’s not about Wells vs. Bay now, and frankly, neither are looking that good (and yes, I say that after the HR). The point was that it was a decision Wedge likely had more to do with. And at the time, it did look bad and certainly didn’t make a lot of sense. Still doesn’t, really.

  69. nvn8vbryce on June 28th, 2013 8:59 pm

    Is it just me, or did Angie sound sauced in that cut-in?

  70. pgreyy on June 28th, 2013 9:01 pm

    8:43pm proves it’s not just you. :)

  71. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 9:01 pm

    Calling Ackley up then sitting him obviously was the right call

  72. nvn8vbryce on June 28th, 2013 9:02 pm

    Well, perhaps it’s time for Schick Shadel to do some advertising again…

  73. msfanmike on June 28th, 2013 9:03 pm

    Hasn’t put the ball in today? Are you kidding me? Watching strike 3?

  74. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 9:04 pm

    Zunino! Should have been at 2nd!

  75. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 9:06 pm

    That makes hit number 4. Good time for Miller to get his first.

    As if there’s a bat time:P

  76. Slats on June 28th, 2013 9:07 pm

    Miller has wheels.

  77. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 9:08 pm

    Well, that wasn’t the worst outcome. He now has an RBI, a walk, and a stolen base before his first hit.

  78. scraps on June 28th, 2013 9:09 pm

    Ackley: 0-2, it’s like he never left…

    You’re picking on him based on two farking at bats?

    It’s like I never left New York.

  79. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 9:09 pm

    “As if there’s a bat time“. For the record, that was a simple mistake, not a poor attempt at humor.

  80. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 9:10 pm

    Time to give Pat O’Day a call

  81. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 9:14 pm

    Nice!

  82. jeffs98119 on June 28th, 2013 9:14 pm

    What’s worse than watching the 2013 Mariners?

    Watching the 2013 Mariners while listening to Jay Buhner. Face it, the front office hates us.

  83. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 9:15 pm

    Yes, it’s always a great idea to re-introduce a recently called up top prospect to the majors and put his lefty bat up against a pitcher who is holding lefties to .143. Lefties are zip for 15 against him today.

    Very smart to sit him against a right handed pitcher with bad numbers because you are going to teach him how to play center field in one day

  84. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:16 pm

    Uh, Scraps-
    Casper Wells pitched the final inning for the White Sox, and K’s Asbrudal Cabrera on a wicked, Felix like breaking ball:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22564747/gif-your-undisputed-pitch-of-the-day

    Whoa.

    Casper Wells: “Oh yeah, Mr. Bay… Top THIS!”

  85. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 9:17 pm

    I didn’t realize Luis Valbuena had made it to the Mariners active roster when he was here, in 2008. September callup?

  86. tmesis on June 28th, 2013 9:17 pm

    I suggest that Ackley’s play name be changed to “Oxygen” (0-2): watch one, swing at a bad one, and then . . . .

  87. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 9:22 pm

    Wasn’t Wells originally a pitcher?

  88. Will Lofton on June 28th, 2013 9:22 pm

    “You completely missed the point. It’s not about Wells vs. Bay now, and frankly, neither are looking that good (and yes, I say that after the HR). The point was that it was a decision Wedge likely had more to do with. And at the time, it did look bad and certainly didn’t make a lot of sense. Still doesn’t, really.”

    What evidence do you have that shows that Wedge made the decision to keep Bay over Wells? I’d like to see it. And I didn’t support the move at the time either but maybe the M’s front office knew something that we didn’t. It’s payed off.

  89. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:23 pm

    Westy-
    The weird part is, I REMEMBER that same throw coming in from the outfield a couple times… (ba-dum *cymbal crash*)

  90. scraps on June 28th, 2013 9:24 pm

    MrZDevotee: Nice! And two ex-Mariners in the play.

  91. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:26 pm

    Will Lofton-
    Of course the manager has a hand in decisions for who wins roster spots at the end of Spring. HE’s the head evaluator, who sees all the practices/games.

    He doesn’t SIGN guys, but he certainly has a hand in deciding which guys make the opening day roster. The largest hand, unless it’s Junior, or God himself.

  92. Slats on June 28th, 2013 9:30 pm

    Veteran clutch!

  93. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:30 pm

    Raul!…

  94. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 9:30 pm

    Sweet! Bad play by their left fielder as well!

  95. nvn8vbryce on June 28th, 2013 9:30 pm

    Not enough U’s for Raul in that one!

  96. scraps on June 28th, 2013 9:31 pm

    “It’s paid off”? What, did I miss a 17 game winning streak keyed by Jason Bay by which he led us to sniffing the playoffs?

    When the Mariners actually make the playoffs, you can be sure that Jason Bay will be long gone.

  97. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 9:31 pm

    Assist to the Cubs defense.

  98. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:31 pm

    Okay Ackley… It’s now or never… (Or do we pinch hit Smoak for him? Saunders moves to CF, Smoak to 1B?)

  99. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 9:32 pm

    I don’t know how, but Raul has not been hopeless against lefties in 2013, even though he definitely was the previous several seasons.

  100. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 9:34 pm

    Please! I almost choked on my drink. Pitch hit? Wedge?

  101. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 9:34 pm

    MrZ-
    I am not sure that the manager has the “largest hand” in who makes the roster. That’s hard to know. It has been apparent that the manager doesn’t have control. I think it depends on how much the GM is willing to listen to him.

  102. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 9:35 pm

    Love that shot of a fired up Nick Franklin pounding his hand on the dugout rail as Ackley came to the plate. We need more of that!!

  103. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 9:39 pm

    Rauuuul 0 WAR I don’t know who is responsible for Bay and Ibanez, but who ever assembled the rest of the team should be fired

  104. djw on June 28th, 2013 9:39 pm

    What the hell Zunino. Take a hack at that.

  105. Will Lofton on June 28th, 2013 9:40 pm

    Zunino just watched a beach ball go right down the middle.

  106. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:41 pm

    Longgeorge-
    Yeah but how does one fire “shithouse luck”? What does he even look like?

  107. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:42 pm

    I had an image in my mind of a Pixar movie and Zunino’s character watching that last pitch in slow motion, saying “p-r-e-t-t-y…” (Whoops)

  108. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:44 pm

    Another good night for Iwakuma, even if the long ball bit him a couple times… Facing a team he’s never seen, and keeping ‘em to 6 hits.

    Guy is solid.

  109. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 9:48 pm

    I’m gonna miss Perez when they ship him off at the trading deadline. He’s so insane.

  110. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 9:49 pm

    It is Miller Walk-Off Time!!

  111. djw on June 28th, 2013 9:49 pm

    It really is impressive how a washed up has been like Perez has turned himself into a hell of an impressive reliever.

  112. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:49 pm

    Juneau-
    I was just gonna ask… Is Perez one of those guys sorta off the radar, that 3 or 4 different teams are gonna come calling for at the deadline… He’s the type that always gets moved. Cost effective, a lower value role, doing a good job there. Everyone needs good relievers.

  113. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 9:49 pm

    Love the second strike quick pitch by Oliver

  114. djw on June 28th, 2013 9:50 pm

    Dammit, my cable just went out. I kind of wanted to see this at bat…

  115. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 9:51 pm

    Irony, tragedy, comedy I don’t even know my point

  116. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 9:54 pm

    djw, you didn’t miss anything. *sigh*

  117. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:55 pm

    Longgeorge-
    Epic tales?
    The Mariners are Dante’s Inferno? *laugh*

  118. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 9:57 pm

    Yes! Nick!

  119. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 9:57 pm

    Just remember, in the Divine Comedy, “hell” comes first… Then “purgatory”, and finally… “Paradise!”

    (In the baseball game, St. Nick is over .300!)

  120. Will Lofton on June 28th, 2013 10:03 pm

    I feel like Medina causes problems.

  121. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:05 pm

    I feel like Medina should still be in AAA… He’s got “stuff” but doesn’t really know how to “pitch” yet. He’s sort of the reliever version of Maurer.

  122. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:05 pm

    Love it when the other team does that!

    We’ve sure seen the Mariners do that, often enough…

  123. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 10:06 pm

    Hey the Cubs have more practice at being bad than anybody

  124. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:07 pm

    I still think when we ran for Morales with Saunders, we should have pinch hit Smoak for Ackley. Sounds weird, but with Ibanez on 3rd we were more likely to get a trademark “warning track” shot from Smoak, which would have won the game.

    And then we made the substitution AFTER the inning.

  125. easternWAmsfan on June 28th, 2013 10:09 pm

    Who’s the backup at 3rd? Just in case something crazy happened.. Franklin? Ryan? Miller?

  126. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 10:09 pm

    Loving this game as the future is looking better.
    Franklin, Seager, Miller, Zunino, yes Ackley, maybe Smoak, Kendres?,

    Loving this week as my $20 investment in minor league TV finally paid off as I got to watch replays of gems by Paxton 11Ks, Walker, Hultzen, and 10Ks by Erasmo in an ok but still encouraging performance….Awesome!!

  127. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:10 pm

    Okay, Raul, another triple would be most welcome.

  128. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:12 pm

    Oh bad call there!

  129. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:13 pm

    Wow, pitchFX had ball two as a fastball down the middle?

  130. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 10:13 pm

    I think the single most annoying thing by a Mariners announcer is when one of this poorly hitting batters comes up, usually Blowers says, “Let’s see him hit one out. Why not??”

    There’s so many reasons why not. Pretty similar to why I’m not going to see a unicorn prancing through my yard and just as likely to happen.

    Bone has his own equally annoying variation on it.

    And I understand why they do it but I just find it so utterly pathetic.

    But Raul can feel free to hit one out of here right now. Why not???

  131. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:14 pm

    And… That was a strike too? Ump have dinner reservations?

  132. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 10:14 pm

    “Who’s the backup at 3rd?”

    Probably Ryan. He’s the vet, so could most easily move over there without practice, but I don’t know if Miller or Franklin has any time there.

  133. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:14 pm

    That’s basically spot on, MrZ. A really bad call.

  134. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 10:15 pm

    A walk is as good as a hit(almost)

  135. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:15 pm

    Does Wedge pussy out and bunt? (hee hee)

  136. Rick L on June 28th, 2013 10:16 pm

    According to Gameday, two of those balls to Ibanez were strikes.

  137. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 10:17 pm

    Ryan would probably backup at third.

  138. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:17 pm

    I would think Miller would move to 3rd (better arm) and Ryan would be SS if Seager was out…

  139. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:18 pm

    Let’s see a suicide squeeze, baby!

  140. G-Man on June 28th, 2013 10:18 pm

    Sac a good call or not? Bay got it down, but he’s no great bunter, I would think.

  141. pgreyy on June 28th, 2013 10:18 pm

    OK, I’m not the one to talk (if you saw my facebook photos, you’d know why)…but what the hell does Wedge have on his face now?

    Marshmallows?

    (Meanwhile…let’s hope the M’s make the fireworks worth it!)

  142. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:19 pm

    Okay Mikey.
    Win this!

  143. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 10:19 pm

    Suicide squeeze?

  144. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 10:20 pm

    Don’t know if Miller has every played third. Anybody? I know Ryan has.

    Just a fly ball Smoaks.

  145. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:20 pm

    Why not? There’s only one out…

  146. djw on June 28th, 2013 10:21 pm

    I feel like Medina causes problems.

    I feel like Medina should still be in AAA

    I don’t understand this. He’s been been fine, FIP below three. He’s not the problem here.

  147. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:21 pm

    Hopefully Saunders didn’t damage his finger too badly.

  148. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:22 pm

    MIKEY Z!!!!!!!

  149. Slats on June 28th, 2013 10:22 pm

    Zunino!

  150. pgreyy on June 28th, 2013 10:22 pm

    WOO!

  151. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 10:23 pm

    Holy Fuckin’ Shit

  152. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:23 pm

    Crap, it looks like Condor did hurt something. He’s not letting anyone touch his right hand.

  153. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:24 pm

    Half our hits– Zunino and Franklin

    Half our hits– GRIT! Ibanez, Bay, Morales

  154. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 10:26 pm

    What evidence do you have that shows that Wedge made the decision to keep Bay over Wells? I’d like to see it. And I didn’t support the move at the time either but maybe the M’s front office knew something that we didn’t. It’s payed off.

    Evidence? You mean, like the fact that we have Bay and not Wells. Do you have a shred of sense? If Wedge didn’t make evaluations and make recommendations, why even have him there in spring?

  155. Longgeorge1 on June 28th, 2013 10:27 pm

    Mr.Z Zits and grits

  156. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 10:28 pm

    Steve the whole Wells, Jaso, Ibanez, Bay, and Morse rehash has really gotten old. We get it. Move on.

  157. juneau_fan on June 28th, 2013 10:28 pm

    pgreyy, there’s something terribly wrong with Wedge’s facial hair choice. He’s developed a hell of a facial tic that makes those marshmallows (hee) dance when the game gets even the slightest bit tense. I think he may be trying to cover the tic, but frankly, that hair makes it more noticeable. To use another image, it’s as though a pet gerbil is attacking his face when the game gets tight.

    The end of Saunders’ finger looks like it got ripped off.

    And yay, a win!

  158. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:28 pm

    After 80 games…

    2012 Mariners: 34-46 RS 315, RA 346 (diff -29)
    2013 Mariners: 35-45 RS 288, RA 351 (diff -63)

    They’ve been maintaining that single game lead for a while now…

  159. Ralph_Malph on June 28th, 2013 10:29 pm

    I think Saunders tore his nail off. He might miss a game or two but he’ll be fine.

  160. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:29 pm

    “The end of Saunders’ finger looks like it got ripped off.”

    Yeah, but will it help his batting? Maybe that’s the change to his swing he needs?

  161. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 10:30 pm

    Miller played three games at third in the minors for Jackson. He also played it in spring training, but not sure how many games.

  162. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:32 pm

    Westy-
    If you figure in when we scored (27?) 20-something runs against Texas last season, we’re almost the exact same team, at every line of your posting…

    Bizarre.

  163. terryoftacoma on June 28th, 2013 10:32 pm

    Based on that gopilots, then I would probably go with the better arm. Thanks.

  164. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:33 pm

    Longgeorge-
    I love it.

    “Zits & Grit! The 2013 2nd-half Mariners”

  165. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 10:35 pm

    “It’s paid off.”

    Right, because Bay has been so productive. We don’t know how Wells would have done with some consistency here this year, but the bar is low if you’re impressed with what Bay’s doing.

  166. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 10:36 pm

    And Miller played 7 games and 48 innings in Spring Training at third

  167. stevemotivateir on June 28th, 2013 10:38 pm

    Thanks Terry. I think it’s old too, but I didn’t start it and I’m not one to back down from a jab. Sorry if it annoys you.

  168. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 10:42 pm

    Arguing about Wells vs Bay is like arguing whether Head Cheese or Liver is finer cuisine.

  169. dc24 on June 28th, 2013 10:44 pm

    I’m not impressed with what Bay’s doing. I guess because he isn’t Chone Figgins and his defense hasn’t been as bad as I thought it would be by reading things online, people are impressed for some reason.

    That being said, he’s hit some dingers and he seems to have a tremendous eye at the plate and his defense isn’t bad at all from what I’ve seen.

    There’s also very little evidence to show that Wells would have done better than Bay has, had he been kept. I will also acknowledge that there was very little evidence that Bay would even be as valuable as he has been.

    At the end of the day though, there were plenty of more roster decisions that make the Bay/Wells decision almost obsolete. We have more serious problems than who was the 25th man coming out of spring training.

  170. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:45 pm

    Hey, I have an idea! Let’s talk about Nick Swisher and Michael Bourn!

    /ducks…

  171. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:49 pm

    They’re blasting Social D right now… and Raul Ibañez just ran onto the field and shouted “Hey you kids! Turn off that damn rock and roll!”

  172. scraps on June 28th, 2013 10:50 pm

    terryoftacoma, I disagree. Anything that several people want to talk about involving the Mariners that comes up in a game thread is fair game. Certainly I followed it with interest; anyway, do you think your lack of interest trumps Steve?

  173. pgreyy on June 28th, 2013 10:53 pm

    Actually, Westside…Raul is probably the only Mariner who might actually remember Social D…

  174. Westside guy on June 28th, 2013 10:56 pm

    Hehehe! I keep forgetting he’s still younger than me. I guess the CCR was closer to my generation than his.

    Not that I’ve listened to them in the last 30 years…

  175. gopilots70 on June 28th, 2013 11:00 pm

    I know we are not supposed to roster whatever on this site, but I am fired up after today.

    Next year…..and possibly the end of this year if Romero is ready. Nothing really feasible on the free agent market to add offense and not much more offensively in the short term down on the farm

    Miller
    Franklin
    Seager
    Morales
    Ibanez—-DH only!! put it in his contract
    Zunino
    Ackley
    Romero
    Saunders, stopgap veteran, Morban eventually

    Bench:

    Smoak–rotate with Kendrys and Raul to sit Raul down against lefties and limit Kendries 1B time

    Triunfel….Chris Taylor eventually?

    Sucre, Hicks eventually?

    Endy/Saunders

    SP

    Felix
    Kuma

    Choose 3:

    Hultzen
    Erasmo
    Maurer
    Paxton
    Walker… probably not till midseason

  176. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 11:01 pm

    Westy-
    Yeah, unfortunately Ibanez would be the one saying “turn up the rock ‘n roll” and telling the kids “turn down that damn euro-dance-trash-bomp-bomp-bomp-noise”!

    We’re old.

    Although (true story) post game interview on the radio was Raul and they asked him if he was sticking around for the fireworks… His response “Honestly? I’m gonna try to beat traffic and head home now.”

  177. MrZDevotee on June 28th, 2013 11:31 pm

    I think it’s safe to say there is some renewed interest in the team, and it’s “youth movement” 2.0… Like, a game thread with 177 posts.

  178. Breadbaker on June 29th, 2013 12:21 am

    It was a fun game to attend and an energetic crowd. Cubs fans deserve some credit for not being obnoxious while winning and for sticking around after they blew it. I suppose they’re used to it.

    The starting lineup featured Kyle Seager as the senior Mariner in terms of consecutive days on the roster of the big club. My, that was fast.

  179. Don Money on June 29th, 2013 12:34 am

    For the guys questioning where our outfield prospects are, realize lots of all star outfielders came up as infielders: Ryan Braun, Alex Gordon, etc are recent converts while guys like Robin Yount and my favorite, Gorman Thomas happened a few years ago. We’re starting to see the M’s future and it looks good!

  180. The_Waco_Kid on June 29th, 2013 2:41 am

    That was worth watching!

  181. scraps on June 29th, 2013 4:45 am

    Robin Yount converted to outfield halfway through his major league career, and was an all-star and gold glove and MVP at shortstop; I don’t think he counts as an “outfield prospect”.

    Not to be trouble, but where are our outfield prospects here? Doubtless they are a few, waiting to shift to outfield; but they are a few years away. We are still “questioning where our outfield prospects are”, and Jack Z still made a bad mistake.

  182. stevemotivateir on June 29th, 2013 7:48 am

    Excellent job of lightening the mood, MrZD and Westy! But try to remember we’re suppose to pissed, complain a lot, and show no sense of humor.

  183. stevemotivateir on June 29th, 2013 7:55 am

    Regarding outfield prospects, and why we don’t have (m)any, I think it probably has more to do with where we’ve drafted and what else was available.

    With exception to this year, have we drafted an outfielder in the top 3 rounds since Jack arrived? I’ll look it up after I post this, but thought I’d ask anyway.

    That’s not even a shot a Jack. I’m actually OK with the drafting in general. Might be the only thing I’ve been OK with.

  184. GhostofMarinersPast on June 29th, 2013 8:35 am

    I could see Hunter Pence being a good free agent signing this offseason. I think he’d mesh well here and probably wouldn’t be too expensive. Probably a 4/44$ type deal

  185. Will Lofton on June 29th, 2013 8:45 am

    “Evidence? You mean, like the fact that we have Bay and not Wells. Do you have a shred of sense? If Wedge didn’t make evaluations and make recommendations, why even have him there in spring?”

    Jack Zduriencik is a talent evaluator. Eric Wedge is a manager. If Zduriencik is taking a back seat to Wedge on constructing the roster, than we have a major issue. I highly doubt that is what is happening. Wedge probably had some input on the issue, but Zduriencik gets the final call and knows what is right for the roster. Making assumptions on Wedge without having an inside ear on the organization is kind of dumb.

    None of the U.S.S. Mariner community supported the decision at the time, but the truth of the matter is that the front office has much more information available to them then we do and it appears as if they made the right decision. Four other organizations have decided that Wells wasn’t good enough to have on their roster either.

  186. G-Man on June 29th, 2013 8:56 am

    But Wells threw a scoreless 9th for the White Sox last night. He could probably close for the M’s.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/position-players-casper-wells-skip-schumaker-record-strikeouts-092220351.html

  187. stevemotivateir on June 29th, 2013 9:30 am

    None of the U.S.S. Mariner community supported the decision at the time, but the truth of the matter is that the front office has much more information available to them then we do and it appears as if they made the right decision. Four other organizations have decided that Wells wasn’t good enough to have on their roster either.

    Well, duh. The whole point was that Wedge has input and that factors into the decision making. He is a talent evaluator, just not a good one. All managers are talent evaluators. It’s still sad that Bay was the alternative.

    Making assumptions on Wedge without having an inside ear on the organization is kind of dumb.

    So, making the assumption that Wedge influences roster decisions is dumb? Both Jack and Eric have discussed this publicly.

    Really dude, just drop it.

  188. scraps on June 29th, 2013 9:37 am

    Wells is still on a major league team; you speak of him as though he’s gone. I’ll bet he’s here (on a major league team) when Jason Bay is gone. Bay is a relic of the front office’s bizarre and sad fixation that Seattle will make the playoffs this year or next. I guess they still hold that fixation.

    You say Wells has four teams given up on him. Shoot, everybody had given up on Bay. You think it’s paid off? Well, the Mariners are five games up on the Astros, anyway.

  189. scraps on June 29th, 2013 9:52 am

    We still should have Wells. He’s a good outfielder at all three positions; that’s more useful as a fifth outfielder than Jason Bay’s mediocre offense. And he’s six years younger.

    Yes, we’re arguing about a fifth outfielder. But they don’t know how to build a roster, and this argument exemplifies that.

  190. casey on June 29th, 2013 11:00 am

    not to fan the flames but… something seems to have changed in terms of how Z evaluates talent from 2 years ago or so. Also the talent he drafts is different from talent / roster construct they have been signing or trading for. Have wondered most of the last 9 months or so whether Wedge has had more of a say in Mariners 25 man roster construct than we might think . He wouldn’t be first manager who is dictating the 25 men he has to work with.

  191. djw on June 29th, 2013 11:23 am

    Yes, we’re arguing about a fifth outfielder. But they don’t know how to build a roster, and this argument exemplifies that.

    Exactly.

    The decision to not keep a good OF defender on the bench when we were starting the season with Gutierrez has most decidedly not been vindicated by Bay’s mediocrity. We have one of the worst defenses in the game, and it’s cost us considerably.

  192. stevemotivateir on June 29th, 2013 11:45 am

    We have one of the worst defenses in the game, and it’s cost us considerably.

    And it could have been worse if Chavez hadn’t been available. Imagine Peguero or Thames in his place?!

    I’m anxious to see how the outfield is addressed for next season. Re-signing any of our current options shouldn’t even be a thought.

  193. casey on June 29th, 2013 12:00 pm

    weird – using standard measures such as errors and fielding percentage Mariners are top / or near top of AL in fielding. Using advanced measures such as UZR (I know little about what this is a measure of) Mariners are dead last. So imagining the old school guys are clearing thinking the Mariners fielding is top drawer.

  194. djw on June 29th, 2013 12:32 pm

    errors/fielding percentage are pretty much completely useless for evaluating defense. In many cases, good defenders have more errors because they get to more balls.

  195. Will Lofton on June 29th, 2013 4:05 pm

    “So, making the assumption that Wedge influences roster decisions is dumb? Both Jack and Eric have discussed this publicly.
    Really dude, just drop it.”

    All I asked for was a quote that shows that Wedge made the Bay/Wells call. Where did Jack and Eric discuss this publicly? I really want to know.

    And would you have been this pissed over the Bay/Wells decision if Dave hadn’t come out with a post about it? Because I think both Dave and Jeff would say they’ve been pleasantly surprised with Bay’s performance.

  196. stevemotivateir on June 29th, 2013 5:17 pm

    Eric and Jack have publicly addressed the nature of their relationship regarding roster decisions several time with Shannon Drayer and Greg Johns. Maybe with Baker and Stone as well. I don’t recall anything specific regarding Bay/Wells, but if they both openly admit they discuss roster moves -and it should be obvious they do- why is anything more needed?

    As far as my specific thoughts and reactions go, feel free to dig them up for yourself. They’re all documented here in posts and threads at the time the moves happened. If you wanna take my word for it, my initial thought was that Bay didn’t stand a chance, unless there was injury. I saw the signing as insurance. As spring carried on, I expressed my concern regularly that we’d see Wells cut.

    But it’s silly for you to suggest my thoughts were manipulated. You don’t know me. And that’s something you could look into for yourself, and as I already mentioned, you can.

    Bay is doing what I expected in a best-case scenario. But I’m not content with his performance and it would surprise me if Dave, Jeff, or anyone else here stated that they were pleasantly surprised with his performance. And if they are, it wouldn’t affect my opinion. I still think it was a dumb move. But what was more dumb, was that our choice was limited to Wells or Bay.

    More times than not, most of the people here are on the same page with the authors of this site. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Direct posts aren’t needed to validate peoples thoughts over things like that. You’ll see myself and many others expressing themselves in game threads, or older threads before a post here is made regarding a specific event.

    Again, this argument wasn’t initially about Bay vs. Wells, though. It’s what you stated about Wedge’s innocence with the roster. He is partially to blame. But I never said, nor did anyone else, that he was solely to blame. And factoring in all the moves we’ve seen, it explains why so many of us want to see both Eric and Jack dismissed.

  197. stevemotivateir on June 29th, 2013 6:08 pm

    All I asked for was a quote that shows that Wedge made the Bay/Wells call. Where did Jack and Eric discuss this publicly? I really want to know.

    Rather than make demands, try doing a little research yourself. A simple google search turned this up. And it was the first direct link I clicked on:

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/03/29/2534915/teams-last-roster-move-comes-down.html

    If this isn’t enough proof that Eric and Jack discuss roster moves, that Wedge had a voice in the decision, I really don’t know what to tell you. The entire suggestion was ridiculous to begin with.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.