My Preferred 2014 Second Baseman

Dave · September 2, 2013 at 11:16 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

A few months ago, Dustin Ackley moved to the outfield because it looked like Nick Franklin was taking the second base job for the foreseeable future. Since then, Nick Franklin has been atrocious, while Dustin Ackley has showed some signs of life. Both have shown flashes of their potential, and both have had flaws exposed, raising legitimate questions about their long term value.

Here are their season to date numbers through Labor Day, followed by a poll asking a simple question that I’m curious to see the results of: based on what you’ve seen this year, which one would you rather have starting at second base on Opening Day next year?


Name PA BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA Fld BsR WAR
Nick Franklin 328 10% 27% 0.176 0.272 0.220 0.293 0.395 0.304 -6.6 -0.5 0.1
Dustin Ackley 348 6% 17% 0.090 0.300 0.252 0.301 0.343 0.286 -5.7 2.8 0.1

Comments

66 Responses to “My Preferred 2014 Second Baseman”

  1. Paul L on September 2nd, 2013 11:20 pm

    Is there a place for Franklin if Ackley takes second back?

    I have no idea what these guys are doing anymore…

  2. Westside guy on September 2nd, 2013 11:22 pm

    Aren’t those fielding numbers for Ackley the composite for everywhere he’s played this year? His second-base UZR/150 for the past three seasons is +6.8.

    I picked Ackley because I think he’s the better defensive second baseman.

  3. Dave on September 2nd, 2013 11:26 pm

    Yes, those numbers include his time in the OF, which drastically deflate his fielding totals because he’s been awful out there, which is understandable given his lack of experience. I don’t think there’s any question Ackley is the better defender at second base.

    So the question basically boils down to whether you think Franklin’s bat is strong enough to offset that difference, or if you like them both enough to keep Ackley in the OF — where he is much less valuable, and maybe not valuable at all — in order to play both of them.

    Personally, I don’t think a team that is trying to win can have both of those guys in the line-up on a regular basis. I think the M’s will have to pick one.

  4. don52656 on September 3rd, 2013 12:19 am

    I don’t think that we can use this year’s stats for Franklin to render a confident judgement on his eventual value at 2B. He’s shown enough for me to want to see him there next year. I believe that the improvement we’ve seen from Ackley is real, and therefore believe he will be valuable next year in the lineup, although I would certainly like to see him in LF because of his arm. I would be unhappy to see the Mariners trade either one, frankly.

    I love the idea of watching a young team filled with guys like Ackley, Franklin, Miller, Zunino, Saunders, Smoak, Seager can do next year with some experience.

  5. tmac9311 on September 3rd, 2013 12:29 am

    I think it’s a matter of who we get this offseason, if we continue to have no outfielders, keep ackley out there, if we only get a 1 or 2, maybe have nick at 2B ackley as utility guy, if we fill it ackley to 2b franklin to bench infielder.

  6. CSG on September 3rd, 2013 1:28 am

    I’m interested to see how Franklin develops in the off-season. Every time Franklin has repeated a minor league level, he’s shown drastic improvement the next season. I guess I’d like to see Franklin start the season at 2B with Ackley as a utility guy. If Franklin fails, he can go back down to AAA, Ackley moves back to 2B, and we proceed from there.

  7. californiamariner on September 3rd, 2013 1:57 am

    I don’t think those numbers paint a clear picture for either of them being the right choice but I could be wrong.

  8. LongDistance on September 3rd, 2013 2:39 am

    “I love the idea of watching a young team filled with guys like Ackley, Franklin, Miller, Zunino, Saunders, Smoak, Seager can do next year with some experience.”

    Reading that, had a deja vu moment, reminding me of how I felt, in 3rd Grade, getting for my birthday a Handy Dandy Home Chemistry Set. No idea of what it might do on the cool side, but a distinct possibility of getting results that would ooze like slug foam, stink, or blow up.

    But that’s just an impression.

  9. globalalpha on September 3rd, 2013 2:57 am

    Neither of those guys thrill me anymore. Is Jack Perconte still an option?

  10. Typical Idiot Fan on September 3rd, 2013 3:21 am

    Personally, I don’t think a team that is trying to win can have both of those guys in the line-up on a regular basis. I think the M’s will have to pick one.

    That seems premature, especially for Nick Franklin. I know he’s been bad after a strong start, but he has to be given a chance to adjust at this level, doesn’t he? He has demonstrated in the minors of needing time to adjust, but when he does he turns out to be pretty good.

    Ackley’s adjustments / improvements seem legit to me. Even when he’s making outs he’s lining pitches the other way. I don’t think we should consider anything but having both right now.

  11. Logan Davis on September 3rd, 2013 5:01 am

    Also to be considered: what’s the difference between Ackley and Franklin in terms of trade value? Franklin being younger, and Ackley having a couple of pretty bad seasons under his belt before his recent improvements, I’m thinking the team might be able to get a little bit more for Franklin than for Ackley. I could be wrong, though, since my feel for major league teams’ valuation of players is not wonderful. What do you guys think about that? Because if Franklin really does have higher trade value, he has to be that much better in order for keeping him to be the right call.

  12. Paul Martin on September 3rd, 2013 5:33 am

    I hope we bolster our outfield in the offseason through trades and free agent signings. I think eventually Franklin becomes trade bait, heck they had him traded last offseason and his trade value has only gone up.

  13. wsm on September 3rd, 2013 5:38 am

    I think Ackely is going to have to be in the outfield. Asking this front office to come up with TWO starting outfielders may be too much. You know they’ll try to foist another Ibanez/Morse type on us.

    It’s not absurd to think Ackley can still be what he was when he was drafted #2 overall – an above average defensive outfielder with good contact and OBP skills. I think that player is still there.

    Having Ackley in the outfield means he can be the second backup IF as well. That “allows” the team to save a bench spot for Raul.

    Also, for the record, the M’s are going to sign Hunter Pence this year and the price won’t be pretty. I think they’ll see him as everything they dearly wanted Mike Morse to be. He can be our Jayson Werth. Time to pray Seattle keeps losing enough to protect their top 10 pick.

  14. GhostofMarinersPast on September 3rd, 2013 5:50 am

    Pence is going to re-sign in SF. They love each other and want to be together

  15. teo on September 3rd, 2013 6:51 am

    Listening to a game last week I commented that the M’s lineup had four second basemen in it and noted that was a pretty damning statement concerning the state of the team.

    Maybe Seager has bulked up too much to switch back and maybe Miller can stick at short but with the recent success teams like Cardinals and Indians have had sticking hitters at 2d, the M’s are behind the curve.

    In a vacuum, I think that Seager is the only player currently capable of playing second on a championship team – of course not an option in the poll.

  16. African Mariner on September 3rd, 2013 7:45 am

    Keep both around. Both their current records don’t accurately show what they are. CSG is correct about Franklin. He has always come back better and we need to give him a chance to do that.

    Ackley may finally be showing us the player that we thought we drafted. Yes Ackley is less valuable in the outfield but he can move to 2nd if he performs and Franklin tanks.

    Right now if I had to construct a team for next year is to get another outfielder, Ellsbury, Pence or Choo. And get a DH, retain Morales or get Beltran or Napoli. I wouldn’t mind retaining Guti as the back up outfielder especially if we sign a lefty outfielder. Don’t activate his option just resign at a lower rate for one year.

  17. nwade on September 3rd, 2013 8:04 am

    If the argument is that Franklin’s no good because of his bad stretch, then how do you reconcile that against multiple bad stretches of Dustin Ackley? Sure, he’s better lately; but we don’t _know_ if its going to be sustained. Ackley’s been given several chances to adjust and improve; I don’t see why you wouldn’t do the same for Franklin (unless you think we’re just one or two players away from the post-season; which I personally don’t believe. 20_15_, maybe…)

  18. joealb1 on September 3rd, 2013 8:12 am

    To Smoak or not to Smoak, that is the question!

  19. Sports on a Shtick on September 3rd, 2013 8:16 am

    The answer certainly isn’t outside acquisition as the M’s have plenty of other holes (SP, OF, manager, GM…) that should be filled before externally before worrying about second base.

    Gut feeling I would stay with Ackley as his work ethic leaves me to believe he can develop/adjust into a solid player. I think Franklin has more upside but as an either/or I’ll stick with who I think is the safer bet.

  20. Westside guy on September 3rd, 2013 8:24 am

    Logan – I’ve wondered the same thing (with the same caveats regarding my opinion, actually).

    Nwade – the thing is, when Ackley’s had a bad stretch it’s been hard to point at numbers and say “this is why”. With Franklin, it’s easy because of K%/BB% etc. I’m not saying that’s definitive… but Franklin’s strikeouts concern me. Then again, he’ll go on jags where he walks 2-3 times a game.

  21. bookbook on September 3rd, 2013 8:54 am

    The M’s aren’t likely to make .500 next year, so I guess we an play them both.

  22. thedude1987 on September 3rd, 2013 9:00 am

    [off-topic]

  23. Barnard on September 3rd, 2013 9:06 am

    The question for me going forward would have to be is Nick Franklin going to continue striking out 27% of the time? Would hope the Mariners will find room to keep both going forward, I think it’s too early to write either of them off

  24. Westside guy on September 3rd, 2013 9:08 am

    Actually, to flesh out my concern: Franklin has Ackley’s approach at the plate (low Z-swing%) but unfortunately with Condor’s contact rate (mid 70s) rather than Ackley’s (high 80s).

  25. Klatz on September 3rd, 2013 9:12 am

    That’s a harder question when considering the context. In a vacuum it’s Ackley at 2b. He seems like a better defender in a season’s worth of data (not much to go on though really). Franklin has more pop and should be a better defender given his shortstop roots.

    But considering the holes on the roster, I’d rather have things as it currently stands without considering possible trades. Ackley’s defense in the outfield was bad but to the naked eye it’s getting better. I think given his tools (speed/ability to adapt to new positions) he’ll be okay in CF and good a LF.

    Considering trades, Franklin has the higher value given his power potential and ability to fill in a SS. If one were to go Franklin should get the higher return.

  26. Adam S on September 3rd, 2013 9:15 am

    I’m surprised so many people picked Franklin.

    Obviously some small sample size, but since the all-star break, Ackley has been the team’s best hitter and Franklin the worst, among regular players, and is striking out 1/3 of the time.

    I don’t for a moment believe Ackley is that good but right now he’s a better hitter and better fielder than Franklin. The only edge Franklin appears to have is our minds aren’t filled with two years of him sucking.

  27. Westside guy on September 3rd, 2013 9:56 am

    Over the last 30 days, the Mariners have had two of the three worst-hitting regulars in the Majors… Kendrys and Nick. Smoak is 11th worst.

    (Dave did a tweet on this earlier, although I’m going by wRC+ rather than WAR – not that much changes either way)

  28. Choo on September 3rd, 2013 10:11 am

    Franklin’s defense and approach at the plate have been frustrating to watch, but is this the real and complete Nick Franklin? Some mad scientist’s mash-up of leftover Dan Uggla and Adam Kennedy parts? The power appears to be real – not raw power, but the ability to generate consistent backspin. That alone is probably enough to see if Franklin can fight his way out of it. Ackley got those chances.

    Ackley is versatile enough to start 4 out of 5 games while Franklin auditions with a fresh start in 2014. And if Seattle takes a page out of the A’s book and rotates their regulars at the DH position, Ackley could play just about every day.

  29. amnizu on September 3rd, 2013 11:06 am

    I voted for Franklin for the following reasons:

    1) I think off season funds are better spent for gains in the outfield and SP.
    2) Based off BABIP, OBP and SLG it looks to me like Franklin has a higher offensive upside than Ackley. With nearly a 700 OPS which includes a horrible slump and a BABIP that suggest he has been a bit unlucky vs Ackley’s that suggests he has been a bit lucky.
    3) Ackley can probably move to a bench or Ben Zobrist type role and be effective at it which allows the team to have much great roster flexibility freeing dollars to be spent on other needs.

  30. jordan on September 3rd, 2013 11:13 am

    Franklin is still doing OJT. Its way too soon to start questioning his long term value.

  31. MrZDevotee on September 3rd, 2013 11:23 am

    There’s a Willie Bloomquist in Nick Franklin trying hard to get out… (In regards to this comparison)

    I hope I’m wrong, but I see a weaker, smaller Mike Morse when he played infield in what Franklin has been doing lately.

    Meh range.
    Meh plate discipline.
    Meh speed.
    Meh versatility.

    I think he deserves an offseason and another spring to show some improvement, but currently, as in “at this moment” Ackley definitely offers more value in the field AND at the plate.

    Luckily for Franklin, unless we have an amazing offseason acquiring outfielders, Ackley is probably needed out there first.

  32. jld on September 3rd, 2013 11:31 am

    Do we have to slot Ackley into center field? Why can’t Saunders play center and have Ackley in a corner?

  33. eponymous coward on September 3rd, 2013 11:32 am

    That seems premature, especially for Nick Franklin. I know he’s been bad after a strong start, but he has to be given a chance to adjust at this level, doesn’t he? He has demonstrated in the minors of needing time to adjust, but when he does he turns out to be pretty good.

    Ackley’s adjustments / improvements seem legit to me. Even when he’s making outs he’s lining pitches the other way. I don’t think we should consider anything but having both right now.

    The key part of Dave’s statement is “trying to win”. If you figure “what the hell, we can afford to blow away 2014 and just roll with what we have”, sure, you can completely go with kids and hope that everything works out OK. That’s been the team’s MO since 2009, prioritizing development over putting a team on the field that on paper looks like a contender without having to do a bunch of “well, if we close our eyes and squint, and make a bunch of hopeful wishes and get some breaks in our favor, we could maybe contend”. It hasn’t paid off yet, though, and we’re looking at year 6 of this plan. D’ya think we might want to adjust it a bit?

    Over the last 30 days, the Mariners have had two of the three worst-hitting regulars in the Majors… Kendrys and Nick. Smoak is 11th worst.

    Just in time for Dave to post about how Kendrys and Smoak look like the real deal.

  34. Sports on a Shtick on September 3rd, 2013 11:35 am

    Ackley’s lack of arm strength is way too much of a liability to put in a corner OF spot. It’s not really serviceable in center field as well but his range would work there.

  35. Badbadger on September 3rd, 2013 11:37 am

    I’d probably shop both Franklin and Ackley and take the best offer and keep the other one. If whoever you keep doesn’t work out you can always slide Brad Miller over when Chris Taylor is ready.

  36. _David_ on September 3rd, 2013 11:43 am

    How do we get to the point where Franklin comes up as a short stop but can barely handle 2b, and Ackley comes up as “barely a 2b” and excels at it?

  37. ripperlv on September 3rd, 2013 11:47 am

    Given that the experts says 1000 PAs before judgement, Franklin needs another 700 PAs before we should judge him. But the Ackley/Franklin decision does need to be made. Who has better trade value? It might come down to that.

    Of course, it wouldn’t surprize me if the Ms go the cheap route and keep both and try to sign a couple OK hitters with no defense and innings eaters in the rotation. And then sell to the fans that we have a competitive team with a lot of young kids that need to develop. I want a competitive team that is going to challenge for a title, period.

    \\tired of waiting.

  38. Westside guy on September 3rd, 2013 11:47 am

    “Ackley’s lack of arm strength is way too much of a liability to put in a corner OF spot. It’s not really serviceable in center field as well but his range would work there.”

    Wouldn’t his arm play better in left field than in center?

    … Assuming the team hasn’t already penciled Raul in as the everyday left fielder for 2014 and 2015, of course.

  39. eponymous coward on September 3rd, 2013 11:55 am

    Wouldn’t his arm play better in left field than in center?

    Probably, but I kind of doubt he’s a .331/.359/.488 hitter with a .384 BABIP (his post-ASB numbers). Ichiro’s CAREER BABIP is .344.

    You’re basically betting on Ackley turning into the new Johnny Damon (noodle arm, not a ton of power, but hits and gets on base enough)… and Damon has much better SB numbers that boost his value significantly, plus he hit a bit better as a young player, so I kind of doubt Ackley’s going to be that good. Maybe he turns into the new Randy Winn, but even he didn’t struggle as much as Ackley has (and again, Ackley has inferior SB numbers, you really want 30-40 SB with good percentages to add a little extra oomph). Perhaps it works out, but it is kind of a hope and pray kind of strategy.

  40. Rick L on September 3rd, 2013 12:21 pm

    I never thought I would say this, but at this point I would start Ackley.

  41. goat on September 3rd, 2013 12:27 pm

    There’s no reason to think Ackley can’t be at least as good as last year which makes him league average. Franklin doesn’t field well enough to stay at 2nd for long, and might be worth more in a trade for a real outfielder than Ackley would. Plus it would be better to have fewer sophomore slump candidates next year.

  42. Paul B on September 3rd, 2013 1:07 pm

    I’d probably shop both Franklin and Ackley and take the best offer and keep the other one.

    I’d do that, if a team would give up a good quality outfielder for one of them. If not, then keep them both and find playing time for them until it gets sorted out.

  43. mrakbaseball on September 3rd, 2013 1:25 pm

    Well, neither are in today’s starting lineup.

  44. nwade on September 3rd, 2013 1:25 pm

    Why does ANYone think that these guys have trade value? Nick’s in a huge slump, and Ack’s basically been more bad (or at least questionable) than good. We’re not getting anything of value from trading either one… Why does this idea persist that trades are a way to dump underperforming players and get good stuff in return? What teams are you thinking have good players they’re just willing to toss off, in return for young players who are past the point of being a exciting prospects and solidly into the “maybe quad-A player” camp? Teams will swap bad players, or they’ll swap good players, or they’ll swap spins at the roulette-wheel for a chance at a breakout player. But they’re not going to swap a solid, reliable player for a single round of roulette.

  45. eponymous coward on September 3rd, 2013 1:47 pm

    Franklin’s all of 23, with all of 328 plate appearances in MLB. Bit soon to call him a AAAA player, given that he’s had slightly less than a full year at AAA to go along with his time in MLB.

  46. JasonJ on September 3rd, 2013 2:00 pm

    I think people are a little more jaded on Ackley due to his larger amount of visible failures and that’s why we’re seeing Franklin in the lead.

    I think the answer all depends on who the FO brings in at other positions. I’d take my chances with Franklin if we get more dumpster diving simply because he’s had a limited amount of time to prove he can adjust and we’re not contending anyway. If there are actual above-average-to-good major league players signed I think Ackley is the answer due to better defense. He’d have a higher WAR if it wasn’t being dragged down by his outfield experimenting.

  47. Westside guy on September 3rd, 2013 2:09 pm

    I’m trying to recall if I’ve ever headed into an offseason feeling less hopeful about the Mariners than I do right now… and I’m coming up empty.

  48. leftfield limey on September 3rd, 2013 2:19 pm

    With a small sample size (I have heard on the preachers on this site for many a year and believe); history of adjusting to better competition and questionable stamina for a whole season ( what his offseason lower half bulking was designed to address) it is too early to judge Franklin or for that matter the “new” Dustin Ackley.

    Never say never, neither is indispensable and so wait and see what offers Z gets, but I would not sell low on either. As others have said, neither of the players features on the “biggest problem” list and 2nd base certainly doesn’t. Wait and see what other opp opportunities arise and maintain flexibility.

  49. Westside guy on September 3rd, 2013 2:19 pm

    Note that my preceding post above isn’t so much about the players as it is about the management of the organization as a whole.

  50. currcoug on September 3rd, 2013 2:37 pm

    I see no reason to deal either one…patience, particularly in regards to Franklin.

  51. G-Man on September 3rd, 2013 3:21 pm

    I don’t see enough trade value in either one to deal them. I don’t see enough hope of contending in 2014 to worry about one of them being in the way, unless the payroll budget suddenly goes up by $50 million. They’re both cheap for what they offer. Hoping for improvement, especially by Nick, seems to be the best shot.

  52. smb on September 3rd, 2013 3:27 pm

    I voted Ackley, like WG for the apparently better glove at 2B. I believe there’s a naturally good hitter hiding in there, and for some maddening reason it takes longer to come out if they’re forced to don a Mariners uniform for every game.

  53. scraps on September 3rd, 2013 3:30 pm

    I chose Ackley, because Dave asked, but I figure nobody cares about the reasons — just a moderately educated fan’s opinion, which means pretty much squat. (I could say why, but really, is anyone going to change their mind exposed to my opinion?)

    Basically, I want Dave’s opinion. (And Marc’s, and Jeff’s.)

  54. smb on September 3rd, 2013 3:44 pm

    I care to hear why, scraps…but I share the opinion so there’s no mind to change anyway. I think a team starting both of these guys every day is likely not a team competing for a championship (or, sadly, a division), unless they eventually both turn into plus bats, which is something that seems pretty unlikely from this vantage point. But we’re so far from that ultimate goal at this point that it may not be particularly relevant at the moment. A better question is ‘Are they better than what/who they replaced?’ and I’m more comfortable with that perspective on the situation at this point, anyway. Bottom line for me is they are eminently more watchable than Figgins, Yuni and Lopez, and all the other scrubs we’ve had over the past few years of futility, so you won’t catch me complaining about either of them anyway.

  55. Typical Idiot Fan on September 3rd, 2013 5:13 pm

    The key part of Dave’s statement is “trying to win”… D’ya think we might want to adjust it a bit?

    I’m not even sure why he should make that qualification either. There’s nothing right now that indicates the Mariners are ready to win in 2014. Even if Z becomes an official lame duck next season (which we thought he was this season), that doesn’t imply that he’s going to scrap the things he’s started and go crazy with shuffling Titanic’s deck chairs.

    But to answer your question, if the Mariners are looking to win in 2014, they shock the world by throwing a crap ton of money at Robinson Cano to play second base and worry about what to do with Ackley / Franklin afterward. That wont happen, of course, but if we’re talking about serious attempts at trying to increase the team’s overall ability to win, Cano would be a great start.

    Turning 2014′s squad into a winner in 2014 requires a lot more than discussing Ackley or Franklin as a second baseman, but in that regard Cano would be the most effective move for 2014′s winning chances regarding a second base choice. I don’t think either Ackley nor Franklin could come close to matching Cano’s 5-6 win potential.

  56. Eastside Suds on September 3rd, 2013 5:18 pm

    “I don’t think there’s any question Ackley is the better defender at second base”.

    Sorry, but I couldn’t disagree more. I think posters here have gone south on Nick because of his horrendous second half at the plate. He has been horrendous, but so did most of our “kids” when they first came up. Miller hasn’t really hit that yet and Zunino has way too small of a sample size offensively. Smoak and Ackley both struggled mightily as did Montero.

    I have seen half a dozen games this year in person and have watched almost every game on Root. Dustin is solid on every routine ground ball. I will definitely give him that. However, it was so maddening to me (an infield JC and HS coach for over 30 years) to watch Dustin trying to turn a double play. His feet around the bag were awful when recieving a six hole feed. His lack of arm strength showed EVERY time he threw as the ball died on its way to 1st.

    Franklin is/was a shortstop. Obviously he is a really talented young man. He has better feet. He has more ultimate talent than Dustin at the position. And there is absolutely no contest between arms. Franklin has a BIG league middle infield arm. So much better than Dustin physically, it is rather obvious.

    I know Franklin has made more errors. Maybe he has gotten to a few more balls than Dustin did? He obviously has made more errors as hit hitting has gone south. Again, another symptom of youth. What I do know from watching the team this year, is that Ackley failed to turn an innordinate amount of routine double plays when he was playing second sack. Franklin has turned a dozen or so that Ackley would have never turned. I don’t know if there is a stat for that. I’m sure there is somewhere.

    Errors are errors and young players who struggle at the plate usually make plenty of them. But, moving forward, if you are just looking at future value at 2nd base, it’s really not even a consideration (IMO) to replace Franklin with Ackley UNLESS the former can’t hit at this level. Then you have no choice.

  57. scraps on September 3rd, 2013 5:38 pm

    Lots of people allege that Franklin is better defensively at second base, but the defensive stats disagree; at least, they did last time I checked. Ackley was pretty good at second base. (And yes, lots of people don’t care for defensive stats. I disagree; or least, I want people who see them every day, probably professionally, before I change my mind.) (Like I said, I am just one fan blah blah blah; I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind, either.)

  58. Eastside Suds on September 3rd, 2013 5:43 pm

    There is no question on the errors. 9 to 1. But, one is younger and has way less MLB experience. The one who has 9 errors gets to more balls and turns more double plays.
    I tend to look at players on their skill level much quicker than I look at success, especially when they are rookies plucked right out of the minors before their time.
    I hope they BOTH succeed and do great things for this organization. I really like them both!

  59. taylor.mariner on September 3rd, 2013 7:21 pm

    Give me Ackley or give me death!

  60. eponymous coward on September 4th, 2013 7:43 am

    There’s nothing right now that indicates the Mariners are ready to win in 2014.

    Then why on earth are they paying Felix Hernandez top dollar? You hardly need players making 25 million+ a year if your goal is to win 75 games and develop kids forever. Trading your players who are commanding top dollar for a boatload of prospects is the tried and true method of going “we’re waiting for next year”.

    There’s also plenty of examples of teams going from 70-75 wins to taking a next step. Just in this league, just in the last two years: Baltimore, Cleveland and KC.

  61. Mariner.lovechild on September 4th, 2013 9:04 am

    We can’t wait forever with every prospect. It ain’t fair, but it ain’t realistic either. Trade Franklin before it’s complete bust. Up to high heaven in prospects…

    I’m not basing it so much on numbers, although defensively they agree with me: Ackley looks better out there at 2B. Even at the plate, I like his approach, faltering as it may be, more than Franklin’s.

    And to be vain, I’m sorry, but that oversized batting helmet on Franklin… looks like a goof.

  62. currcoug on September 4th, 2013 10:08 am

    Franklin is 22 years old, and has all of 329 plate attempts. Do you really think that qualifies as “waiting forever”? Where are those “small sample size” people in regards to Franklin?

    I also agree with Eastside’s excellent analysis.

  63. Mariner.lovechild on September 4th, 2013 10:37 pm

    Nope, I’m saying bail out now before another 329 plate attempts. So much time already invested in Ackley, so I’d just personally rather see him play where he’s best. And would rather another team raise young Franklin, especially if he’s in a package for an OF. But I’m just a fan like you.

  64. Mariner.lovechild on September 4th, 2013 10:43 pm

    Ackley was only a gold glove finalist in ’12….

  65. CSG on September 5th, 2013 4:52 am

    Franklin is 22, and even with the terrible slump over the last month, has outhit Dustin Ackley’s career MLB numbers this year. His strikeout’s are concerning, but he’s improved at every level, especially with K%. He came up as a shortstop, and even with the error issues and positioning issues, I don’t see him as drastically worse than Ackley in the field at 2b. It’s really strange to see people giving up on Franklin already, especially when it’s not quite an either/or proposition. Franklin can stay down if he needs the work, Ackley can force the hand if he decides he can hit a line drive 30% of the time, or hit with some sustainable power.

  66. Typical Idiot Fan on September 7th, 2013 7:23 am

    Then why on earth are they paying Felix Hernandez top dollar?

    Just noticed this, so pardon my tardiness in replying. I realize you’re asking this rhetorically to make a broader point, but it, along with this question, is asinine.

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