Taijuan Walker Will Not Be Traded Unless He Is

Jeff Sullivan · December 9, 2013 at 4:32 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Robinson Cano is amazing! He might not be amazing in ten years, or five years, or even two years, and for all I know he’ll be a big pile of crap in 2014, but that probably won’t be the case because he’s been one of the best players in baseball for a long time and he’s still not old. Cano is amazing and the Mariners have him, and in the short-term that’s just terrific. To be honest with all you guys, though, I haven’t been able to enjoy the rush to the fullest extent, because getting Cano signals that the Mariners are going for it. The Mariners going for it signals that they’ll be sacrificing more long-term for the immediate, and I’m terrified of a Taijuan Walker trade. Getting Cano makes me afraid about Walker, so this from earlier is some welcome reassurance.

Greg Johns:

“I don’t have intentions of trading Taijuan,” Zduriencik said. “You listen to any opportunities that present themselves and you go into discussions with a lot of people. And his name will come up. Why wouldn’t it? As do a lot of our guys, quite frankly. But Taijuan is high profile because he’s rated our top prospect. So if I was a club out there, why wouldn’t I ask about Taijuan Walker? That would be a smart thing to do because you never know where it’s going to take you. But I have no intentions of trading him.”

Also, from Bill Shaikin:

Jack Z on Walker, rumored as part of Price trade package: “I expect Taijuan to be with us.”

That’s a pretty direct response to the recent rumors about Walker and David Price. Now, this is Zduriencik from last December 3:

“I don’t have a desire to trade these guys,” Zduriencik said. “I’d be tickled pink to continue this plan and let them all become big leaguers for us and see what they’re going to be. But you can’t shut the door on an opportunity to improve your club for the short term and the long term.”

From a week and a half later:

“And I think what you find is, everybody’s seeking pitchers. That is a real strength of ours. So there’s this balancing act that you put this thing together, it’s starting to look like it’s really going to be something good going forward, and then you get these phone calls that offer you a player that has one or two years of control, and he typically is a high-money player from another ballclub.

“And it’s tempting because you know you can make your big-league ballclub better right now. But the discipline is to say ‘no, we are going to continue along this road.’”

The natural and obvious counterpoint is that Zduriencik did indeed try to trade Walker, to the Diamondbacks, in a package for Justin Upton. But there are two things to remember. For one, Walker’s stock is considerably higher now than it was a winter ago. At that point he was coming off a near-five ERA in double-A. Now he’s got experience in the majors. For two, Upton would’ve come with three years of team control. That’s only one more year than Price’s two, but another way of saying that is 50% more than Price’s two, and Upton came with lower locked-in salaries. So it’s not the same thing.

Based on Zduriencik’s words from a year ago, he wouldn’t move Walker for a high-money player with two years of control, which describes Price. The concern is that the situation is obviously different, with the Mariners now targeting a shorter-term window. I don’t think Jack would say they’re abandoning the rebuilding plan, but they’re certainly looking to win right away. Changing priorities can mean changing ideas and strategies, but it’s still comforting to have Zduriencik go on record as saying he doesn’t want to move his top prospect. The pattern of behavior still suggests he wouldn’t do that for a one- or two-year player.

I can’t help but be reminded of two nuggets from recent history. In 2007, the Tigers declared Cameron Maybin untouchable, and then almost immediately included him in a package for Miguel Cabrera. More recently, Joe Maddon asserted that Matt Garza would pitch for the Rays a little before he was dealt to not-the-Rays. Organizations have changed their minds before, and organizations have deliberately misled the public before, and the point is that nothing is ever final. The Mariners could trade Taijuan Walker tonight. Maybe something will happen that causes them to change their mind. Maybe they don’t actually need to have their mind changed. Taijuan Walker won’t be traded, unless.

Thus the David Price rumors can’t be written off entirely. But, Jack could’ve said something along the lines of, you’re always listening, you’re willing to do anything to improve the ballclub. Just the other week he said something like that when it came to stretching the budget. Shortly thereafter, the team dropped a quarter of a billion dollars on Robinson Cano. What Jack chose to do was say he has no intentions of trading Taijuan Walker. That’s the right plan, at least until you start talking about an elite, cost-controlled talent coming back. For two years of almost anyone, Walker shouldn’t go. May Jack, in this instance, be telling the truth, and may he elect to stick with it. I choose not to over-analyze the use of the word “intentions”. Or “expect”. That’s for my own sanity.

Comments

48 Responses to “Taijuan Walker Will Not Be Traded Unless He Is”

  1. greentunic on December 9th, 2013 5:34 pm

    In Jack I still trust. Call me a loyalist but with the young cheap talent and now however much elite expensive talent we get, I’m loving the plan.

  2. Eastside Suds on December 9th, 2013 6:10 pm

    Jeff….I would be very interested in your opinion concerning Chris Sale. The guys on MLB Tonight brought up his name in conjunction with the Mariners yesterday afternoon and mentioned Sale had six years of team control left. I don’t know if they had heard rumors or they were just filling time with idle chat until the commercial.

    I thought Sale looked really solid last season and certainly had some eye-popping stats. Any thoughts on Sale and have you heard any rumors?

  3. Longgeorge1 on December 9th, 2013 7:00 pm

    I understand why the Rays want to deal Price. I would like for the M’s to first talk to him and his agent to extend his contract for a 5 year total. As far as Sale goes I really like him, but why would the White Sox trade him for another pitcher? That would make no sense to me. Sale still has 6 cheap years so the Sox gain nothing.

  4. greentunic on December 9th, 2013 7:07 pm

    Longgeorge

    I totally agree, but isn’t that against MLB’s rules? Or did I misread that somewhere?

  5. Eastside Suds on December 9th, 2013 7:46 pm

    Longgeorge, I was wondering the exact same thing. I would say that would be the only way (I hope) that the M’s would approve a trade of TW. But, there has been a good deal of buzz on the Interweb this week and also as seen here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/chris-sale/

  6. Longgeorge1 on December 9th, 2013 7:58 pm

    The contract talks would have to be held in conjunction with the trade talks, that is with the permission of the Rays. I believe that path is legal. I am sure that just to talk to Price without the Rays permission would be tampering.

  7. JasonJ on December 9th, 2013 8:08 pm

    I watched a lot of Sale last year (on my fantasy baseball team) and he is fantastic. On more than one occasion he completely shut down the Tigers and he is already better than Price in my opinion (had Price on my team as well) and he’ll probably get better.

    But, like Longgeorge said, there’s no reason for the White Sox to trade him. You can build a team around him much like Felix. Maybe if you offer something like Walker, Franklin, and Zunino you could keep them on the phone but that doesn’t make sense for either team at that point.

  8. Prosser Steve on December 9th, 2013 11:27 pm

    Taijuan Walker reminds me of Brandon Morrow. He looks like he has been taught to pitch by the numbers, nothing looks fluid and smooth. I think Paxton is a much better prospect. Put Walker in a deal for Price in a heartbeat.

  9. MrZDevotee on December 10th, 2013 1:31 am

    Prosser, that’s funny… Because I see Taijuan as someone who doesn’t look like he’s learned how to pitch yet. He just has “stuff” at this point. Not questioning you, or trying to say I’m right (nothing more than “eyeballs” in my analysis)– just bemused by how we can have two totally different visions of him.

    That said, pitchers are such volatile commodities, with incredible risk (“Hi” Danny Hultzen, “Hi” Michael Pineda, “Hi” Baby Unit), I don’t have a problem trading a top prospect like Walker for a Cy Young winner.

    The two possible baselines of “worst case” are:
    1) if you do a trade, and Walker is great– you regret only having two years of greatness, versus 5 or 6
    2) if you keep him, and he’s only average– you regret having ZERO years of greatness (and- possibly- you also regret the Rangers having 2 years of Price, and then extending him)

  10. SonOfZavaras on December 10th, 2013 3:05 am

    The odds are against us- in fact, pretty well against- in being a World Series contender in the 2 years we would have David Price, which almost certainly costs you Walker.

    Therefore, I do not want David Price at this time.

    The timing sucks. It’s a go for broke move by a contender (and we are not going to be that in 2014)…when we’re broken and looking just to get going.

    Taijuan Walker, James Paxton, Brandon Maurer and Erasmo Ramirez. With Victor Sanchez and Tyler Pike up and coming. Danny Hultzen is now a wild-card. And Luiz Gohara could go full-on wunderkind on us.

    I like my odds that *at least* one of those names becomes as good as Price is now. And we get six years of that goodness.

    No thank you on Price.

  11. currcoug on December 10th, 2013 7:05 am

    Rosenthal stated on MLB TV this morning that he still thinks Seattle will trade Walker.

    Zduriencik came on immediately after Rosenthal, however, and told Rosenthal that Seattle will not trade Walker.

    The conversation was aired at 6:15 a.m., Pacific time.

    Zduriencik tried very hard to stop the questioning, but they keep asking him about Baker’s article. When Rosenthal specifically asked him about Fusco and Ingenio, Jack refused to answer the questions. Jack said it is “over”.

    It is interesting that Jack said “we hope we can get this thing (Cano) finalized in the next few days.” He repeated that statement several times, which I found troubling.

    Jack was asked about acquiring Price and Kemp. He was pretty clear that the M’s couldn’t pull both moves off this year.

    Rosenthal asked him about Walker again. Jack said he had discussed this issue with his “group” at the Winter meetings, and they feel Walker is a TOR guy, and the “best athlete” in their system. He said Walker is the most sought after guy in his discussions, and that they do not want to trade him. He went on to say, however, that teams ask about “Zunino, Miller, Franklin and Paxton”. Jack went to talk about being patient with the M’s young group, however, and that they might come together “quick, like St. Louis.” He immediately discussed Paxton and Walker in this context, about taking the “next step”.

    Jack refused to answer the question about the proposed deal with Nelson Cruz, but that the M’s have not made an “official offer to anyone”.

    Rosenthal asked him about sabermetrics, etc., and Z said it figures into everything they do, and that he has a talented “group” in that regard. He said sabermetrics are not his “skill set”, but that he knows a lot about it, but relies on his statistical analysis department.

    Finally, he talked again about staying with their plan.

  12. currcoug on December 10th, 2013 7:15 am

    Sorry, meant to say Fusco and Blengino.

  13. MrZDevotee on December 10th, 2013 7:22 am

    I hope Z avoids the topic as well as possible at the meetings. He made an official statement and should stick with “it’s over… we’re moving on.”

    I think THAT’s the most frustrating thing about the Baker article… It’s like bully Baker tied the front office’s shoelaces together right before the Winter Meetings/100 Yard Dash, and is now waiting to laugh at their futility when the gun goes off. “Ha, ha! You guys suck!”

    I know it doesn’t have anywhere near that impact in my rational mind, but my emotions are quite certain it’s not helpful.

  14. currcoug on December 10th, 2013 7:50 am

    Jack may say it is over, but I doubt Blengino would agree.

  15. Longgeorge1 on December 10th, 2013 9:07 am

    Funny thing is I looked back at the 2009 draft and naturally there at the head of the class was Strasburg. Then of course Ackley and much later( first round only) Franklin. Also in the class was Zack Wheeler who was traded to the Mets and is just starting to pitch in the majors and of course that Trout guy that nearly everyone passed on, including the Angels as he was there second pick in the round. My point is, that as “poorly” as our draft has worked out, many others have been worse.

  16. eponymous coward on December 10th, 2013 9:53 am

    I think THAT’s the most frustrating thing about the Baker article… It’s like bully Baker tied the front office’s shoelaces together right before the Winter Meetings/100 Yard Dash, and is now waiting to laugh at their futility when the gun goes off. “Ha, ha! You guys suck!”

    So, Baker should have kept his mouth shut because he should have been a fan wanting to help the M’s, instead of a journalist wanting to write a well-sourced story about a front office that’s having issues?

    That’s pretty ridiculous homerism. Face it; if this management team is competent and the organization isn’t regularly shooting itself in the foot (Griffey/Wakamatsu/Leuke/Wedge are all pretty much unforced errors in this organization), this isn’t a story. But hey, if you want to shoot the messenger delivering messages about the quality of people running your favorite team, be my guest.

  17. kinickers77 on December 10th, 2013 9:56 am

    if I were Jack, here is what I would do. We already signed Robinson Cano. Too expensive but hey, why not? Now go and sign Matt Garza, Ubaldo Jimenez and Shin-Shoo Choo. Then trade Nick Franklin and James Paxton for Matt Kemp. Sign Grant Balfour as our new closer and we are good to go. This way, we keep our top prospect in Taiwan Walker and he can be our #5 starter this year.

    Rosterbation Time:

    Choo
    Miller
    Cano
    Kemp
    Seager
    DH – another FA signing?
    Zunino
    Smoak
    Saunders

    Felix
    Iwakuma
    Garza
    Ubaldo
    Walker

    I think that’s a contender right there, no?

  18. mrb on December 10th, 2013 10:24 am

    The shame is that this is cart-before-the-horse. Why trade Walker this offseason (I’m going to go ahead and say it’s an inevitability) when you could simply be a “buyer” near the trade deadline, with Walker still dangling out there?

    The problem the Mariners seem hell-bent on barreling in to is assuming their team is competitive before the first games are played. Considered there is only 1 person with the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION that was around the last time the Mariners were competitive (depending on how you count Raul Ibanez), it seems poor judgement to assume they’re good now and start shedding assets.

  19. currcoug on December 10th, 2013 11:19 am

    I wouldn’t trade Paxton either, but I realize I may be in the minority where he is concerned.

    Felix
    Iwakuma
    Garza
    Walker
    Paxton

  20. the tourist on December 10th, 2013 11:24 am

    “Rosterbation Time:

    Choo
    Miller
    Cano
    Kemp
    Seager
    DH – another FA signing?
    Zunino
    Smoak
    Saunders

    Felix
    Iwakuma
    Garza
    Ubaldo
    Walker”

    And only at $150 million in payroll! Seems legit.

    /sarcasm

  21. LongDistance on December 10th, 2013 11:50 am

    I’m looking forward to Geoff Baker’s article no longer being part of the news cycle. Elsewhere, and here. But, and you’ll all excuse me, but I have to get this off my chest.

    Geoff Baker is no journalistic hero of mine. I respect neither his objectivity, nor his methodology, nor his deontology. I give you a few of the incongruities I was struck with, on reading his article about Howard, Chuck & Jack:

    First, there was this subtle position-change, when describing how Jack allegedly manufactured his new-math, stats-based approach to recruitment. Baker twisted this in such a way, as if to make it sound like he disapproved of it.

    When, in fact… how many times has he openly bashed what he called “self-anointed” experts who like to see where the latest tools of stats analysis can be used concerning use of players, trades, appraisal, and everything else. To put it bluntly: he has long hated USS Mariner.

    And, suddenly, he seems to be climbing on the sabre metrics bandwagon? Give me a break.

    Next. I’m sorry, but his so-called investigatory excellence as a journalist? He says he has dozens of people testifying to what he was writing about.

    Prove it.

    Telling readers they need to believe him because he has the backing of dozens or more people telling him these things, deserves our scorn.

    I was taught that this sort of journalistic ploy is what is called begging the question. I give you the exact definition: “Begging the question is a fallacy in which the premise of an argument presupposes the truth of its conclusion; in other words, the argument takes for granted what it is supposed to prove.”

    Also known as circular reasoning, where the reasoner begins with what he’s trying to end up with.

    Suddenly, we’re discovering a new Geoff Baker? The guy who ripped us for not loving to death Raoul, Seattle’s Home Run Hero?

    Next, we have timing. All of this crap. Like this is actually news. Here on USS Mariner, we’ve chewed over the incredible un-baseballness of Howard and Chuck, and lately, although to a lesser degree Jack, until it has become like a Mantra.

    And here we have, suddenly, Geoff Baker, coming alive like some sort of Zombie whose been in limbo-slumber for several years, zooming past USS Mariner with his tale of how screwed up things REALLY are… i.e., you jerks don’t have a clue how truly bad things are, whereas I’M the GUY who KNOWS.

    Finally, all this (timing again) to pour a downpour of rain (the word in French is “douche”) on the Cano Parade.

    Here was something, albeit weird, that actually had people cheered up a bit. And suddenly, Geoff Scoop Baker comes in to make sure everyone understands who’s in command of the inside info.

    Art Thiel must be rolling in his retirement grave.

    If Walker goes to Tampa, can we include Baker on the deal? (as GMKA – Guaranteed Management Kiss Ass… at least until he’s had the door slammed in his face, which is what I’m suspecting really happened).

    Frankly, baseball fans in Seattle do deserve better than the management they currently have. But they also deserve better sports journalism than… this.

  22. currcoug on December 10th, 2013 12:10 pm

    Baker knows the Mariners could sue him for slander and libel, so I rather doubt he is going to fabricate, and/or fail to vigorously fact check his sources. The story has legs, and there may be worse yet to come. If the allegations are true, why wouldn’t you want them publicly aired? You are shooting the messenger.

    I also believe that Wedge, Blengino, and Fusco have more integrity than Zduriencik. Baker has printed their statements…it is now their word against Lincoln/Zduriencik.

    Finally, it appears that such allegations were apparently well-known around baseball, before Baker’s piece was published.

  23. Longgeorge1 on December 10th, 2013 12:29 pm

    King , Kuma, Garza, Santana, Walker, Paxton, Ramerez. If any two of the last three work out trade for a bat

  24. eponymous coward on December 10th, 2013 1:06 pm

    Suddenly, we’re discovering a new Geoff Baker? The guy who ripped us for not loving to death Raoul, Seattle’s Home Run Hero?

    It is possible for Baker to both be a decent journalist and lousy baseball analyst when it comes to advanced baseball statistics, so thus, it’s possible to take his journalism on this seriously, while still thinking that USSM got some insight into these problems well before Baker did, since a lot of what Baker wrote mirrors complaints aired here some time ago.

    Does this make it a bit clearer?

    Anyways… I hope the M’s augment the rotation and the OF without giving away the farm for Price or whoever.

  25. pgreyy on December 10th, 2013 1:20 pm

    Saw Dave Sims (sans chapeau) on “Olbermann” last night. He said that Jack Z told him that the M’s were going to get “Two bats and an arm.” (And that Cano is one of the two bats.)

    …guess defense still isn’t a priority for Jack.

    And it suggests a shopping list based not on specific players but a very general description…which is worrisome if it becomes “any bat will do” at last call.

    And Flying Spaghetti Monster help us if it suggests that management think that we were just “two bats and an arm” away from contending.

    NOW…it was interesting to see Dave Sims constantly refer to the M’s as “we”…and their problems as “our” problems.

    Here’s the link: http://youtu.be/m8IokUBGsbk

    (Dave would go on to talk Seahawks after this part of the interview.)

  26. Pete Livengood on December 10th, 2013 2:42 pm

    Anybody watching Intentional Talk on MLB TV right now? McLendon is on…. I think he just came up with the new Mariners slogan for 2014:

    “Mariners Baseball…We’re Not Just Donkeys Out There!”

  27. californiamariner on December 10th, 2013 2:55 pm

    McLendon was pretty cool in his interview. I liked what he was saying. Don’t know if it’s just the fact that he’s new though. This quote was good:

    “I don’t need guys to lead in the clubhouse. I’ll do that. I need the guys to do it on the field.”

  28. John Morgan on December 10th, 2013 3:19 pm

    (LongDistance, by my count, 8 of your 18 paragraphs consist primarily of ad hominem attacks.)

    The definition of begging the question you yourself provided does not support your premise.

    “I give you the exact definition: “Begging the question is a fallacy in which the premise of an argument presupposes the truth of its conclusion; in other words, the argument takes for granted what it is supposed to prove.””

    “Next. I’m sorry, but his so-called investigatory excellence as a journalist? He says he has dozens of people testifying to what he was writing about.

    Prove it.

    Telling readers they need to believe him because he has the backing of dozens or more people telling him these things, deserves our scorn.”

    Concealing sources is not begging the question. We may say he’s lying, but the burden of proof would then shift to us.

    Begging the question would be like this: “Geoff Baker is lying about his unnamed sources, because only a liar would use unnamed sources.”

    (Etc.)

    “Geoff Baker is no journalistic hero of mine. I respect neither his objectivity, nor his methodology, nor his deontology.”

    Ad hominem.

    “When, in fact… how many times has he openly bashed what he called “self-anointed” experts who like to see where the latest tools of stats analysis can be used concerning use of players, trades, appraisal, and everything else. To put it bluntly: he has long hated USS Mariner.”

    Again, ad hominem. Baker’s opinion of stats or USS Mariner do not in any way impact the truth value of his article.

    “Suddenly, we’re discovering a new Geoff Baker? The guy who ripped us for not loving to death Raoul, Seattle’s Home Run Hero?”

    Ad hominem, obviously.

    “Next, we have timing.”

    Appeal to motive. Releasing an investigative piece shortly after the Mariners are in the national news for signing Robinson Cano seems like a shrewd move to me. And, again, maybe this proves Baker’s a ruthless careerist, but it in no way affects the truth value of the article.

    “And here we have, suddenly, Geoff Baker, coming alive like some sort of Zombie whose been in limbo-slumber for several years, zooming past USS Mariner with his tale of how screwed up things REALLY are… i.e., you jerks don’t have a clue how truly bad things are, whereas I’M the GUY who KNOWS.”

    Ad hominem.

    “Finally, all this (timing again) to pour a downpour of rain (the word in French is “douche”) on the Cano Parade.”

    Motive.

    “Here was something, albeit weird, that actually had people cheered up a bit. And suddenly, Geoff Scoop Baker comes in to make sure everyone understands who’s in command of the inside info.”

    Need I?

    “Art Thiel must be rolling in his retirement grave.”

    Basically an appeal to flattery, insomuch your purpose is to juxtapose Thiel and Baker, flattering Thiel while underscoring how much we all dislike Baker. A little pity for Thiel, and also a little fear in the association of retirement with being buried.

    “If Walker goes to Tampa, can we include Baker on the deal? (as GMKA – Guaranteed Management Kiss Ass… at least until he’s had the door slammed in his face, which is what I’m suspecting really happened).”

    Fear. Abuse.

    “Frankly, baseball fans in Seattle do deserve better than the management they currently have. But they also deserve better sports journalism than… this.”

    Flattering the readership/audience–not going to look that one up. It’s a textbook fallacy whatever the latinate.

    Not happy about the article (well kind of happy), myself. I’ve read grumbling about mismanagement, but innuendo and comments on USS Mariner are not a well-sourced article with damning details. (I’m happy because it seems always darkest before the dawn.) Even in my wildest paranoid fantasies, in which this article utterly torpedoes Jack’s credibility, and in panicked frenzy he trades away the farm, signs Nelson, and Seattle goes all in on an 88-win season and years of diminishing returns, I’d still rather the Mariners crash, burn, clean house, maybe change ownership, and in 2019, be the best run, most modern franchise in MLB.

    And that’s a fallacy too but a good one.

  29. Easley45 on December 10th, 2013 3:36 pm

    To mrb -

    “The problem the Mariners seem hell-bent on barreling in to is assuming their team is competitive before the first games are played.”

    Why does the Cano acquisition force the assumption that the Mariners are all in on a “win now” mentality, and it’s a foregone conclusion that Walker will be traded? Cano will be a very good player (hopefully) for another 4-6 years. There has been no fire sale of cost controlled assets. Maybe the team is just trying to add talent to the MLB roster for the short and long term?

  30. casey on December 10th, 2013 4:30 pm

    Easley – this is like the half full version vs the half empty version with many falling on the bell curve in between. I am hopeful that the glass can be half full – I do look forward to watching Cano play this spring – have my condo booked for March!

  31. currcoug on December 10th, 2013 6:54 pm

    Oh good…instead of Walker, we are allegedly willing to include the 2012 overall #3 pick (Zunino) in a package for Price.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/mariners-could-trade-mike-zunino-in-possible-price-deal.html

  32. TumwaterMike on December 10th, 2013 7:52 pm

    So, Baker should have kept his mouth shut because he should have been a fan wanting to help the M’s, instead of a journalist wanting to write a well-sourced story about a front office that’s having issues?

    I agree, however if Eric Wedge was going to the media about the problems, Baker probably wanted break the story before someone else did. I’m glad its out, now everyone can move forward.

  33. TumwaterMike on December 10th, 2013 7:56 pm

    Is anyone against the possible Gutierrez signing? If its a low cost, incentive based contract, it appears to me it would be low risk, high reward. We all know what Guitty can do when he’s healthy.

  34. Longgeorge1 on December 10th, 2013 8:49 pm

    Tumwater: I guess I would like to know what the doctors think. If he is healthy, whatever his underlying long term issue is, sure. No one can foretell a broken leg but if he still has the same basic chronic illness??????

  35. ChrisFB on December 10th, 2013 9:55 pm

    currcoug – That Zunino rumor CAN’T be right. This org has zero catchers in it.

    Tumwatermike – I am. I’ve had enough of the The Guti Show. He just can’t stay healthy. That roster spot would be better used on someone else.

  36. casey on December 10th, 2013 10:12 pm

    and Tampa has Molina, just traded for Hannigan and has Lobaton. The only guys more untouchable than Skywalker would seem to be Felix and Zunino.

    If you want to risk going blind check out MLB rumours site comments on Heyman’s tweet where wildly drooling Ray fans are envisioning packages such as Zunino, Franklin and Saunders for two years of Price. Crazy stuff.

  37. killeverything on December 10th, 2013 10:16 pm

    @ChrisFB and Tumwater, If it’s an incentive laden contract I’m leaning towards keeping Guiti. As noted we all know what the guy can do that one time when he wasn’t on the DL.

    Maybe since the OF was a joke last season and the only seemingly big upgrade is Choo it might be good to try a low risk contract with Guti. How about using the OF like a platoon? Not unlike what Beane and Melvin have going on in Oakland.

    I realize that’s a big question mark, because Z would need to effectively fill it out with the right players and were still in the midst of the Ackley experiment.

  38. LongDistance on December 11th, 2013 12:59 am

    John Morgan:

    That’s quite a rip you took of… me: ad hominem attacks shilling for favor through flattery, etc. I mean, of course, that’s what you felt I was doing. And certainly not what your rip of me consisted of.

    I’m obviously not going to convince you that I’m capable of intellectual honesty or capable of identifying journalistic integrity.

    I’ll admit that what I wrote was personal and too visceral. I regret that. I really do. But that article really hit a nerve. Several, actually. It happens.

  39. MrZDevotee on December 11th, 2013 7:39 am

    Rays are looking to trade Colby Rasmus for starting pitching… This is intriguing. He’d be a nice piece of the puzzle. CF and a decent bat.

    Bringing Guty back just scares me. And he’s one of my favorite M’s. But you can’t plan on ANYTHING with Guty. You’re practically forced to have backup plans already in place before Spring Training even starts.

    I’d rather have a guy that I can reasonably believe has a shot at staying healthy for months at a time.

  40. Bodhizefa on December 11th, 2013 7:45 am

    Rasmus was pretty darned lucky last year with the BABIP and he probably played over his head in UZR, too, MrZDevotee. It seems like the Jays, who are a pretty smart team, are looking to sell high. If we can get him for cheap, I’m all for it, but I doubt we can given Anthopoulos is involved. Would you give Paxton for him? I’m not so sure.

    Another option on the cheaper (platoon) side would be Drew Stubbs from Cleveland. I’d be interested in dealing for him if they’re selling for cheap.

  41. MrZDevotee on December 11th, 2013 8:12 am

    Bod-
    Yeah, I wouldn’t want to spend/trade a lot for him. The “intrigue” is based on his affordability (as opposed to Choo or Kemp). He’s a lesser player but offers MORE flexibility for us as far as building the roster. He just strikes me as sort of “what we hope Ackley could be” in the outfield, as an already finished product.

    Then Ackley is available for trade (Yanks and Padres have inquired).

    The thought was with Rasmus we could go after ANOTHER bat too. Rasmus and bring back Morales, etc.

  42. currcoug on December 11th, 2013 8:49 am

    Much like Upton last year, Price may have saved the Mariners from themselves…

    David Price Wouldn’t Sign Extension With Mariners

    By Steve Adams [December 11, 2013 at 10:13am CST]
    Yesterday it was reported that the Mariners have a real opportunity to acquire David Price. Seattle would prefer to keep Taijuan Walker but could be willing to move Mike Zunino, according to those reports. Here’s the latest on Price’s trade market…
    Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports spoke with Price’s agent, Bo McKinnis, this morning at the Winter Meetings and was told that Price would not sign a long-term deal if he were traded to the Mariners. McKinnis told Rosenthal that Price would consider signing an extension with other clubs, but wouldn’t disclose which clubs in which Price would have interest. Rosenthal stresses that this doesn’t preclude the Mariners from acquiring Price anyway (All Twitter links).

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/…h-mariners.html

  43. kinickers77 on December 11th, 2013 8:56 am

    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/4799/david-price

    This is really frustrating. I’m sick of players from other teams hating on the Mariners. Seattle is a great city to live in, and the fans here are some of the best in the nation.

    I’m guessing the fact that we suck is part of why he wouldn’t want to sign an extension here. But, at least it looks like we are trying not to suck.

    I wonder if it’s the GM and ownership drama that puts him off.

  44. killeverything on December 11th, 2013 9:03 am

    @Knickers77, he just did us all a huge favor in more than likely keeping Taijuan. Having a pitcher of his caliber would be nice in theory, I just think that his price is too high and he would probably be a cancer until he hits free agency. Pass. Hopefully Z goes and gets us an OF not named Ibanez.

  45. Longgeorge1 on December 11th, 2013 9:04 am

    If Price won’t do an extension, just walk on by

  46. currcoug on December 11th, 2013 9:24 am

    Killer,

    Nice pun.

  47. kinickers77 on December 11th, 2013 9:32 am

    @killeverything

    Z has come out and said he won’t move Taijuan for Price. Most recent rumor was Zunino, which I don’t like either. I was hoping we could do it for less (maybe Paxton and Franklin?). But you are right, it’s probably a good thing.

    I think we should just go after Garza and Ubaldo, and then trade Paxton and Franklin to LAD for Kemp. Sign Choo, Balfour and maybe get Morales back for DH and we are set.

    Yet, word out is Scherzer can be had too. Hmmm…

  48. Typical Idiot Fan on December 11th, 2013 10:09 am

    Last I checked, any “reports” of Zunino being part of any rumor involving Price was John Heyman speculating that the Mariners might be willing to trade him because the Mariners were reportedly more interested in moving position players for Price.

    In other words, it is bullshit.

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