Roster Stuff
Garrett Olson was scratched from his scheduled start tonight and will join the team in Kansas City tomorrow. Kelley looks DL bound, but even if he’s okay, Stark isn’t long for the major league roster, so there’s a spot in the pen opening up.
The thing to watch is how this will affect the Silva/Vargas decision after tomorrow’s game, though. With Kelley being swapped out for Olson, Wak might be more inclined to shift Silva to the pen to fill a RH reliever role and let Vargas take his spot in the rotation. Otherwise, you’re shifting a lot of people around to try to make Olson fit into Kelley’s roster spot, and since both he and Vargas are seen as LH multi-inning guys, having both in the same pen is a bit redundant.
In other words, don’t be surprised if Silva ends up in the bullpen even if he isn’t a total disaster tomorrow.
Is it confirmed that Olsen will be in the pen or could he potentially start?
Yay! Now Silva can be a disaster in the ‘pen.
Silva would be fine in Stark’s role, i.e, emergency pitcher when someone’s arm falls off.
Silva can be a mop up guy… but he should NEVER be in a game in which the outcome is even slightly in question.
This bullpen merry-go-round has been fun and dandy but I want this team to bring up some damn bats. The kind that suck blood and/or hit baseballs.
Pitcher A:
.217/.280/.391 vs RHB
.345/.406/.655 vs LHB
Pitcher B:
.160/.250/.200 vs RHB
.450/.476/.550 vs LHB
One of those is Mark Lowe, 2009. The other is Carlos Silva, 2009.
Irrational hatred of Silva is fine, but let’s not miss the fact that the reason he sucks as a starter is because he has nothing to get lefties out with. As a right-handed setup guy who could be spotted against mostly RH hitters, he’d be fine.
Although perhaps a little expensive. Of course that’s true for anything he’s likely to do. Which is why I choose to focus most of my hate on Bill Bavasi rather than Carlos Silva. What an awful, awful signing that was.
i have no issues with a 48 million dollar mop up man, he hurts the team the least there, if he has to be on the team. Hell with Morrow and Kelley hurt, if he can show the ability to be a one inning stud maybe he has an outside shot at closing.
Where will the other relief pitchers sit?
Can Carlos pitch a CG tomorrow, to rest the rest of the guys before he joins them in the bullpen? It would be a real Team Player kinda thing to do.
Hey wait a minute. Sure those are his splits this year, but over the last three years he’s been terrible everywhere.
vs. Left .322 .358 .535 .893
vs. Right .303 .326 .444 .770
Isn’t this year kind of a small sample size?
Let me be the first to say…
Fuck Silva closing.
I’ve already seen a fat, right-handed, goatee wearing, gopher-baller as the M’s closer before…
Ayala.
Hell no.
You actually found a way to make me happy about Morrow closing 😉
Actually, the Chef’s so far gone at this point, he’d probably make Ayala look like Mariano Rivera by comparison. 😮
Two questions. First, who is the Doug Fister fellow? He’s in his mid-20s and just converted from being a mediocre starter to a reliever. In AA and AAA this year, in 14.1 innings, he has 1 BB, 15 Ks, 1 HR, and 7 hits. Anyone know how hard he throws or what his repertoire is? His numbers so far remind me of Shawn Kelley’s from last year.
Second, where did Mark Lowe’s slider and change up go lately? Earlier this year, I remember him getting six or seven swinging strikes in one inning with his slider, and his change up was unhittable in 2006. Yet he threw nothing but fastballs his past few starts. What’s going on? If he put everything together that he’s flashed, he’d have 3 well-above average pitches.
One of these pitchers is Silva, the other is Ayala…
Pitcher A:
.217/.280/.391 vs RHB
.345/.406/.655 vs LHB
Pitcher B:
.238/.298/.400 vs RHB
.285/.380/.479 vs LHB
Hint : Silva is pitcher A! 🙂
Yeah, he can get righties out a bit better, but if you leave him in for even one lefty you’re bound to take the L.
How did Bavasi NOT see this?….
‘Cuz Bavasi, as personable of a guy as he was, was a horrible judge of talent/potential.
Fields had another rough outing for the D-Jaxx tonight, so he may not be an option anytime soon.
Newer slimmer bullpen throwing Carlos Silva along with Miguel Batista smell like trouble.
OK, since this site has taken talent evaluation and analysis “to the next level” (to use the cliche) maybe somebody can explain this one to me.
You put your best pitchers (ones with at least three of the five tools starting pitchers need) in the rotation. Then you put the rest in the bullpen.
The bullpen guys come in to try “saving” the game because the starters have faltered for one reason or other.
SO WHY THE HELL do starting pitchers who suck automatically get put in the bullpen?!
The bullpen is supposed to “save” games or keep them close so the offense has a chance to come back. Using a pitcher in this situation who obviously has demonstrated he CAN’T PTICH goes against the very concept of the bullpen.
Silva in the bullpen will cost potentially more games than Silva in the rotation.
Keep him in the rotation or cut him. Period.
Or am I totally off base here?
I will say this: no matter what happens with the bullpen, please, PLEASE don’t ever use Denny Stark in a high-leverage situation again.
For that matter, please, please don’t ever use Denny Stark in a major-league game again, ever.
Jose Mesa says hi.
Wabbles – you are totally off-base. Faltering starting pitchers go to the bullpen to work out their problems and, hopefully, figure out how to be productive starters again for a few reasons. First, they pitch far fewer innings out of the pen than starting pitchers pitch by starting, so their suckitude hurts the team far less. A terrible starting pitcher, if run out there every fifth day, will still pitch way more innings (let’s say 150 innings for 30 GS) than any reliever (usually about 50-75 innings). Even when taking leverage index into account, closers still only throw about 110-120 “starting pitcher” innings – which is why a HOF closer is still only worth a solid #3 starter. So bullpen –> fewer innings –> less effect on the team, good or bad.
Second, such pitchers don’t pitch in important (or “high-leverage” situations) because, well, they suck – they become mop-up guys, not closers.
Third, virtually every pitcher in baseball will pitch better as a reliever than as a starter because a) they work fewer innings and thus don’t need to pace themselves as much b) they need fewer pitches working well (usually only 2) to be successful.
And sending bad starters to the bullpen really can help. There was this one Royals pitcher who was hurting the team so much that he got shipped to the bullpen, and then to triple A, and then back to the big league bullpen before settling back into the rotation. I forget his name.
I hope this helps, and I sure hope it saved Dave or DMZ five or ten extra minutes so they could do something more productive.
And don’t use cliches.
Wouldn’t having both Silva and Batista in the pen be redundant? Sure Batista has been getting decent results lately but we all know that’s a mirage. I would think something would have to be done about Batista before Silva goes into the pen.
Silva in the pen should be quite a bit better than Silva starting. You gain a few MPH on your fastball and if used properly, you see a higher % of same-handed batters. Scary part is that Silva has actually had a better that normal BABIP. He’s just having an awful time missing bats.
Still, the confusing part to me is what happened to him. He should’ve been the pitcher to benefit most from the improved D and looked like a decent pitcher again, ala Washburn.
Maybe we should blame the WBC.
I agree with DAMellen, the past 3 year #’s are what we need to look at in considering if Silva would be a decent reliever primarily against right handed batters and the answer is no, he may not be a disaster against righty’s out of the pen but I don’t see a scenario where he is our best right handed option out of the pen, not in a high leverage situation and if he is just pitching in low leverage spots, having him there becomes basically pointless.
vs. Left .322 .358 .535 .893
vs. Right .303 .326 .444 .770
Because usually when starters suck, it’s because they have one or two flaws that the other team can exploit. Starters need to be out there for 25 to 30 batters, which gives the opposing manager plenty of opportunity to exploit the weakness. In the bullpen, their weakness can be protected (somewhat).
e.g. Silva. Can’t get lefties out. He might not be Cy Young against RHB either, but he doesn’t totally suck against righties. When he starts, he sees lots of left-handed ABs and throws batting practice to them. From the pen, that would be minimized.
That’s why even average starters are pretty valuable. They can’t have any glaring holes in their arsenal.
decatur7,
Thanks for the explanation. I guess I’ve just seen too many M’s pitchers over the last 15 or so years get the “let’s-send-him-to-the-bullpen-to-get-straightened-out” treatment and it doesn’t work. The pitcher ends up having not just one or two flaws that the other team exploits but a stunning inability to pitch. Sending him to the bullpen does nothing to improve his pitching, it just protects the team from having to use him (Think Batista’s non-usage prior to the 15 inning game). I’m just wondering if Silva has become one of those pitchers who is beyond redemption and for whom a trip to the bullpen will do nothing.
The odds are possibly against it turning him back into a servicable starter (e.g. “getting it straightened out”). But he might be useful in the bullpen. It’s a worthwhile stop before contemplating the DFA decision. Or else the DL with “shoulder stiffness”. Turns out the Moose costume won’t fit, so that option’s off the table.