Ibanez may fill Tigers’ needs

JMB · October 7, 2007 at 8:44 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Muwahahahaha. From the Detroit Free Press and Jon Paul Morosi:

Could there be a better solution to the Tigers’ leftfield needs than Raul Ibanez?

Detroit president/general manager Dave Dombrowski acknowledged last week that he will look for a left-handed hitter this winter. Ibanez was among the top outfield run producers in baseball this year — and he’s left-handed.

Ibanez, 35, had 105 RBIs for the Seattle Mariners this season. That’s one less than Adam Dunn, with 68 fewer strikeouts.

It’s cool, Tigers. You can have him. We don’t even need a starter in return.

Warning: The above link contains a weird, artsty sort of black-and-white picture of Ibanez, which you can re-size and move around your browser. I don’t get it.

Comments

79 Responses to “Ibanez may fill Tigers’ needs”

  1. Sports on a Schtick on October 7th, 2007 9:00 pm

    Buy one Ibanez, get one Sexson free!

  2. scott19 on October 7th, 2007 9:02 pm

    Um, could we maybe have Andrew Miller in exchange, please?

  3. Tek Jansen on October 7th, 2007 9:02 pm

    Multiple starters in return? Wow. Well, if Detroit is offering, Bavasi should listen. Honestly, though, as enticing as this article appears, it reads like filler from a beat writer whose team is not playing in October.

  4. Jeff Nye on October 7th, 2007 9:02 pm

    Take our Raul, please!

  5. msb on October 7th, 2007 9:08 pm

    I loved that Jon Paul (as a former Mariner beat guy) has no qualms about pointing out Raul’s defensive deficiency …

  6. scott19 on October 7th, 2007 9:15 pm

    Back when they opened the place in 2000, there were a few quips about it being “Comerica NATIONAL Park” due to its spacious outfield. I can’t remember whether or not the fences have been moved in…but even if they have been a bit, it’s still a good-sized outfield.

    That being said, can you imagine Raul trying to play left regularly there with his lack of range?

  7. Cmalone187 on October 7th, 2007 9:27 pm

    If by chance Raul does get traded I wonder if this happens….

    Manager Mac looks distraught that Ibanez is gone. Then he opens his closet to look at the old Mariners’ Ibanez jersey. He grabs the jersey and starts to embrace the jersey and crying while doing so. Then he gets a flashback/montage whatever you want to call it of all the good times he had putting his name in the lineup card.

  8. jlc on October 7th, 2007 9:28 pm

    How depressing that a Detroit writer understands our problems better than Mac. And who is that guy in the picture with hair???

  9. jdam on October 7th, 2007 9:31 pm

    Best comment ever, below the linked article: “Baldelli is like a flower waiting to bloom.” That being said, just keep in mind the accuracy rate of our hometown newspapers in determining whether the article has any legitimacy. I wouldn’t bank on multiple starting pitchers for any position player on our current roster whose name isn’t Ichiro or Beltre.

  10. msb on October 7th, 2007 9:51 pm

    a) Morosi was a hometown writer until last year.

    b) it is a wishful-thinking column, not a rumor.

  11. NBarnes on October 7th, 2007 10:00 pm

    I’m with #1. Can we send them Sexson and Ibanez? I’d like to get, like, two bags of balls back, but I’m prepared to negotiate.

  12. Carson on October 7th, 2007 10:05 pm

    It is really sad that I am upset that several people beat me to the Sexson joke.

    But, like, yeah. I fear we blew our chance to unload Sexson when they pulled him off waivers. If you ask me, unloading him and his contract would have been well worth watching him somehow rebound and bat well in Detroit.

  13. msb on October 7th, 2007 10:23 pm

    btw, 1920′s “Headin’ home” on TCM tonight? the story of Babe Ruth, as told by a wizened oldster from Babe’s home town.

    Babe, just a slender country lad with a habit of headin’ out to the woods to cut himself a length of hickory to whittle into a bat (when he isn’t helping his adorable pigtailed foster sis find her lost pup) just cain’t keep away from baseball. The shady new pitcher for the hometown 9 not only starts making up to the gal Babe adores, but gets Babe kicked off the baseball team …

    it’s as though they planned a Harold Lloyd picture, and then stuck the Babe in the role at the last minute– but its fascinating to see a skinny 25-year old Ruth, even buried under a thick layer of 20′s-era pancake makeup, and a few glimpses of baseball

  14. JSully on October 7th, 2007 10:27 pm

    “That’s one less than Adam Dunn, with 68 fewer strikeouts.”

    Ibanez also brings 19 fewer HR’s, 48 fewer walks and 101 fewer points of Isolated Power than Adam Dunn.

  15. thefin190 on October 7th, 2007 11:04 pm

    I kind of like the Raul-Sexson combo. Would they consider Sexson an upgrade over Sean Casey, is that a question though. Speaking of Casey…I am hoping Bavasi will resist that temptation.

    In all seriousness, what would do you guys think Bavasi would choose in return for Ibanez?

    7 – wow, I wonder what will Mac do without Ibanez’s Veteran Leadership? I don’t know how the team would make it next year?

  16. Mr. Egaas on October 7th, 2007 11:22 pm

    Nate Robertson. Done deal.

  17. Adam S on October 7th, 2007 11:24 pm

    Is there any chance this happens? While the Mariners won’t publicly put Ibanez in the “untouchable” category with Felix, Jones, and Ichiro, they aren’t going to trade him are they?

    Morosi noted the real problem though — the Mariners think they need to add left-handed sock not trade it away.

  18. ChrisK on October 7th, 2007 11:34 pm

    Isn’t the FoF (“Face of the Franchise”) untouchable?

  19. scott19 on October 7th, 2007 11:34 pm

    16: Wouldn’t mind Robertson if I couldn’t get Miller. Either one would be an improvement over HoRam or Weaver.

  20. Mr. Egaas on October 7th, 2007 11:40 pm

    We’re not getting Miller.
    Hell, the M’s aren’t going to trade Ibanez either.

    This franchise is a very stupid one who values Ibanez’ character and face to the fans too much to trade him for a gawky looking 3rd starter caliber pitcher in Nate Robertson. But, I think, it makes sense for both sides.

    I don’t see why they would bother, and not just play Cameron Maybin full time. They need a shortstop a lot more than a left fielder, with Carlos Guillen moving to 1st base.

  21. Teej on October 7th, 2007 11:41 pm

    JSully: Thank you!

    As a fantasy owner of Adam Dunn in my keeper league, I’m fully aware that he’s way more awesome in fantasy than he is in real life because of his inability to play the field. But with that said, it’s ridiculous how much Dunn is derided for his K’s while being a far more productive hitter than Ibanez and most other left fielders. (Matt Holliday is the only left fielder in baseball with a higher OPS this season.) If you’re going to have an atrocious defensive player in left, at least take the guy with 40 homers and 100 walks every year. Dunn might be overpaid, but his bat is underrated by fans and most media types.

    FUN FACT!

    The year Adam Dunn set the record for strikeouts in season was also the season in which he posted the highest OPS+ of his career (2004, 195 K’s , 152 OPS+)

    (To head off any sort of argument: No, I’m not advocating any sort of trade for Dunn. I’m just trying to defend him a little bit.)

  22. hub on October 8th, 2007 12:32 am

    Is it safe to assume that the majority of baseball writers overvalue the strikeout? Aside from the following base/out states (man on 2nd and/or 3rd with 0 outs, or man on 3rd with 0/1 outs), the difference between a strikeout and other types of outs are not very large. In fact, in some scenarios, the strikeout can be the ‘preferred’ out compared to a groundout. Even more so if the batter is not a fast runner.

    It just seems that writers of the day (especially in the Fantasy Baseball Era) make a bigger fuss over the statistic than it actually deserves. And grossly overrate its importance to a lineup’s run production.

  23. jlc on October 8th, 2007 12:41 am

    I’ve spent plenty of Mariner games hoping a batter would just strike out instead of hitting into the dreaded DP.

  24. joser on October 8th, 2007 1:29 am

    Been watching a lot of Vidro, I take it?

    On that note, I found more than a little schadenfreude watching the Yankees hit into 3 dps in the first three innings Sunday. The last of which was by Mr Clutch. Though of course nobody is going to remember that, particularly since they ended up winning, and so his aura remains intact.

  25. juneau_fan on October 8th, 2007 1:37 am

    I saw Old Calm Eyes hit into two double plays, but I’m sure that was lost in the excitement of A-rod finally hitting..a single.

  26. jlc on October 8th, 2007 1:56 am

    24 – Ah, if it had been only Vidro…

  27. Jurgen on October 8th, 2007 6:12 am

    Dombrowski has his blindsides, but he is not a moron.

  28. Mr. Egaas on October 8th, 2007 8:00 am

    The funny thing is is that this particular beat writer is saying, let’s go get this guy, he drove in XX amount of runs last year. They may require several big league starters to get him, but that’s fine! In fact, we only want him for one year, perfect!

  29. Spanky on October 8th, 2007 8:16 am

    If Ibañez were traded, McLaren would try to find some way to work Vidro into the Left Field playing rotation and let Clement DH.

  30. msb on October 8th, 2007 8:33 am

    speaking of speculations, the SoCal and Chicago papers today are full of “after three and out, what this team needs is Arod” stories …

  31. JI on October 8th, 2007 8:48 am

    Jason???

  32. little joey on October 8th, 2007 9:00 am

    The picture has more range than Raul does.

    Zing.

  33. Paul B on October 8th, 2007 9:34 am

    Raul, if healthy, is a decent hitter. He has some value if they get him out of the OF.

  34. thefin190 on October 8th, 2007 10:01 am

    I agree with the others, that Robertson would be a good pickup, being a solid starter, which is what the Mariners need. Miller would be asking too much, but I would take Robertson. Well any starting will help, but throwing a solid 3 in there, with a 2 (felix hasn’t earned his crown just yet), a 3 (Batista was solid, nothing acelike, but definately helped the rotation), and a 4-5 (Washburn is pretty inconsistent, but has flashes of brilliance), that could make the rotation atleast average.

    Raul isn’t terrible, i mean good enough to where if other clubs look at his stats, they would think he is good. But I think he is one of the most marketed Mariners players not named Ichiro or Felix or Beltre, so I don’t know if they will part with him that easily. Replacing him as far as talent goes shouldn’t be a problem (Jones and possibly Wlad), but replacing his “clubhouse leadership” would probably be too valuable, according to the front office.

    I could see Jones being a very marketable player in 5 years or less with his talent and his likability, so i think the FO should look forward to that when thinking about moving Ibanez. Might as well get something valuable in a trade out of him while you can. He is wearing down, we don’t want him to wear down to where he just stinks and we have to DFA him (Olerud, Boone, Wilson (well he retired, but still) and others ).

    I know its a long shot, but TRADE HIM! Please.

  35. ajdaddy on October 8th, 2007 10:04 am

    please please please please please. A couple of live arm potential starters and a place in the outfield for Adam Jones??? How does Bavasi not piss himself if he sees this?

  36. Sec 108 on October 8th, 2007 10:14 am

    Sportswriters do not make the trades. They just fill space on a sheet of newsprint. I very much doubt Raul is going anywhere.

  37. jjb on October 8th, 2007 10:26 am

    No no no! You’re playing this all wrong.

    We *cough* don’t want to give up Raul and his left-handed shiny shiny RBIs!! If Detroit were to pull this off it would surely be a steal! *cough*

    “Please Mr. Fox, don’t throw me in that briar patch!”

  38. Gomez on October 8th, 2007 10:42 am

    This reeks of Morosi begging for fantasy to become reality.

    What Sec 108 said. Morosi’s just filling space, and I bet neither team is even entertaining the remote possibility of such a deal.

  39. Tuomas on October 8th, 2007 10:59 am

    Detroit? Isn’t JEROME BETTIS! from Detroit?

  40. Mo Vaughn Is My Hero on October 8th, 2007 11:02 am

    Can we trade Raul and Richie for Bonderman, Robertson, Verlander, Maybin and Guillen, please?

  41. Grizz on October 8th, 2007 11:04 am

    Sec 108 and Gomez are right that the article is make believe. It is just Morosi trying to play Peter Gammons, except, unlike Gammons, he fails to cite any kind of source. You can basically ignore any “rumor” article where the author fails to cite a source.

    I am guessing Jason linked this one just because it is kind of funny.

  42. Tom on October 8th, 2007 11:12 am

    What??? Trade Ibanez?!? And get rid of some of that “veteran grit” in the clubhouse?? Such a anti-Mariner thing to do. . .

    Seriously though, you almost wonder the way the rotation turned out this year if the Mariners should’ve traded Raul last year for some starting pitching while his stock was never going to be higher.

    Although, considering we have Broussard already to play first base after Richie is out, I’d see what Detroit wants to offer. . .

  43. bakomariner on October 8th, 2007 11:14 am

    it’s not even a rumor…read the actual article and you’d see that the author says that raul would help the tigers…that’s it…he’s not saying it could happen or should happen, but just that ibanez would help them in left field…

  44. Tom on October 8th, 2007 11:16 am

    #43: I know, but maybe it could be soon if the Tigers are looking to win now, but it will never happen.

  45. bakomariner on October 8th, 2007 11:24 am

    it would be nice…we have a couple of LH bats to replace him (BB, Clement)offensively, and we all know that Jones is superior on defense…getting a SP and saving some cash would be a great move that will probably never happen…

  46. chief on October 8th, 2007 12:16 pm

    #43 Right on. The Detroit story is just a log on the fire to stoke the hot stove. It will be a long winter and the baseball writers have to have something to fill the space in their papers.
    It is fun to speculate but that is what most of it will be, speculation not based on fact.

  47. Eleven11 on October 8th, 2007 12:37 pm

    Some of this is a little harsh. Raul has played his butt off since being here. Averaged 20HR a year and drives in 80+ RBI. The fact that he was left in the wrong position was not his fault, blame management. His statements that he wants to play LF everyday are so what? Do you really want a player that says ,”Sit me coach, I suck”. He doesn’t suck, he is a good bat in the right park. Trade him? Sure but for a useable replacement. Get value. The don’t let the door hit you on the way out stuff is bizarre. Seems to me all the complaints about him are really the result of Mgt not using him right, Ibanez has done nothing but play as hard and intense as anyone in the league. My two cents.

  48. msb on October 8th, 2007 12:47 pm

    #46. exactly.

  49. kraken on October 8th, 2007 12:58 pm

    Ibanez has real value for the Mariners as a DH. He’s a solid hitter with a reasonable one year contract. We would be much better getting rid of Vidro to free up the log jam at DH. It seems that people only want to remember his bad Month, and not the year as a whole. Just as we need to discount hot streaks, we need to be able to filter out the cold streaks.

    If we can get real value for Ibanez, trading him makes sense. But trading Ibanez also means Vidro is our DH next year. Vidro is not an acceptable solution at DH.

  50. bakomariner on October 8th, 2007 12:59 pm

    i would be fine with him at DH, but i’d rather have a #2 or a #3 SP for him and keep Vidro at DH…yes…our vidro…

  51. kraken on October 8th, 2007 1:01 pm

    Nobody is going to give up a #2 starter for Ibanez. That is just not going to happen.

  52. galaxieboi on October 8th, 2007 1:06 pm

    #47 I don’t think anyone is accusing him of sucking (well, they shouldn’t), but the reality is he’s entering his mid-30′s ripe for a serious breakdown. He has no business playing in the field anymore. Luckily, he’s only got a year left on his deal and the M’s can go from there because I agree this is all columnist chit-chat and hotstove stuff.

  53. gk91 on October 8th, 2007 2:00 pm

    47 Well he hurt the team by lying about being hurt and playing anyway, but that seems to be a plus with the M’s brass.

  54. John in L.A. on October 8th, 2007 2:05 pm

    Of all the we-should-trade-x-for type scenarios, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to think we could get some actual value for Raul in a trade. Not what Morosi is saying, or Miller, for God’s sake, but value.

    I would think we could get more value from someone than he is worth to us. Though I’m not saying he has no value to us, at all, we need other things more than we need Raul. Especially if Mac is going to misuse him all year. If you can’t teach Mac how to use his tools, then limit his options.

    47 – What difference does it make if it’s Raul’s fault or management’s?

    And they have a usable replacement. Trading Raul for another Raul would negate the point.

  55. galaxieboi on October 8th, 2007 2:09 pm

    Anyone else noticed John Marzano doing an in-game studio show on MLB.com?

  56. scott19 on October 8th, 2007 2:42 pm

    40: That sounds a little like that move their GM back in 2000 (Randy Smith, I believe) made with Texas — that disco-era-esque “blockbuster” deal which saw them trade, like, half their roster away for about two-thirds of a season of Juan Gonzalez (and all of his whining about how he couldn’t hit home runs ‘cuz the fences were too deep at Comerica)…lol.

  57. Bearman on October 8th, 2007 2:53 pm

    If the Tigers are interested in Ibanez I suggest that Bavasi listen to the offer and then see if the Tigers would trade either Robertson or Bonderman in exchange if need be add a mid level prospect in area of overload in the system.

  58. msb on October 8th, 2007 2:54 pm

    Anyone else noticed John Marzano doing an in-game studio show on MLB.com?

    yep. he’s been doing it all season, after guesting last year.

  59. Eleven11 on October 8th, 2007 2:59 pm

    53-Who was it, Wally Pipp that had a headache and never played again? I don’t think a player exists who doesn’t remember that and that is why they rarely will come out.
    54-Makes a big difference. Raul has done more with limited talent than can be imagined. I love him for it but injuries and age have eroded him to a limited player. So when people dump and criticize him (not you but in general) for not being a starter, that just strikes me as weird. Now, if management is blind to it, then dump on them.
    It’s like some comments on Willie Ballgame. That the kid wants to play everyday and build a career causes some to ridicule him. Nonsense, it’s the guy who overplays him that should get the crap.

  60. galaxieboi on October 8th, 2007 3:00 pm

    Wow, all year? Good for him. I don’t ever bother to look since I get the games at home, but thought I’d take a peak. Very cool.

  61. terry on October 8th, 2007 3:07 pm

    If the Tigers are interested in Ibanez I suggest that Bavasi listen to the offer and then see if the Tigers would trade either Robertson or Bonderman in exchange if need be add a mid level prospect in area of overload in the system.

    I sometimes wonder if we’re not really unsuspectingly taking part in a drinking game among the authors and friends of USSM….

  62. msb on October 8th, 2007 3:08 pm

    #59–

    Who was it, Wally Pipp that had a headache and never played again?

    well, in the urban legend version of the story :)

    #60–(I just re-read your note) not in-game, just in-studio; he & Micucci have a daily show. Is he part of the MLB/TBS online post-season coverage?

  63. C. Cheetah on October 8th, 2007 3:19 pm

    JMB, Derek and Dave…
    I know you guys have a lot to do, and you are probably already doing the leg-work for what you think the M’s should do, BUT….
    ALL of WE readers / commentors need a refresher course on what a smart GM would consider as a “good trade”…from the money savings means in terms of players / prospects to trading veterans for prospects to the actual rankings / value of players (Lefthanded batting catcher better than shortstop with 750 OPS or lefthanded reliever better than righthanded fifth starting pitcher and etc…).
    All we have around here is our watching Bavasi, Gillick and Woodward being taken advantage of…we need to be educated on how these are supposed to be done.
    I know Dave or Derek has done similar in past, but a refresher is needed…especially if you read some of the proposed trades from above…
    Hey, maybe you can even treat this as a “How to make MLB trades” book for Bavasi to read like the article on Felix’s pitching.

  64. galaxieboi on October 8th, 2007 3:25 pm

    MSB – Oh, okay I get it. Thanks!

  65. John in L.A. on October 8th, 2007 3:38 pm

    59 – “Raul has done more with limited talent than can be imagined.”

    That doesn’t sound a tad overstated to you?

    As far as “makes a difference”, you miss the point. It makes little difference to whether we should trade him or not, unless you have reason to believe management is going to change.

    This wasn’t an “I hate Raul, he’s a miserable wretch” thread, so I’m not sure what you were defending him about. This was an “In a heartbeat I’d trade him for multiple starters” thread.

    Put it this way… do you really think most of the posters before you weren’t largely upset with how management uses him?

    Or are you having a previous argument?

  66. DC_Mariner on October 8th, 2007 3:42 pm

    51

    Bill Bavasi would!

    Shit.

  67. John in L.A. on October 8th, 2007 4:06 pm

    66- Someone should have brought that up to ownership – Have you considered this, Howard? If you don’t fire Bavasi, we don’t get to trade with him.

    And then we’re the only team with nowhere to pawn off our excess grit.

  68. jlc on October 8th, 2007 5:30 pm

    Someone forgot to tell the Indians to be intimidated by all that Yankee grit and history. This is fun to watch.

  69. thefin190 on October 8th, 2007 5:40 pm

    Again, as mentioned before, you can tell these commentators are cheering for the yankees. Oh Boy.

  70. galaxieboi on October 8th, 2007 6:04 pm

    Bobby Abreu just saved A-rod from f***ing that inning up.

  71. scott19 on October 8th, 2007 6:42 pm

    Damn…why couldn’t we have gotten this washed-up parallel-universe version of Mussina back in the ’97 playoffs?

  72. HamNasty on October 8th, 2007 7:28 pm

    Derek Jeter is about as good as the local stud softball shortstop these days.

  73. Ebenezer on October 8th, 2007 7:29 pm

    71, that’s the difference between a 28 year old Mussina and the 38 year old version.

    Raul’s still got value, but as others have said, trade him now before he Sexsons. We traded Griffey and Randy Johnson – we can trade Raul. (As far as Vidro being DH, let’s trade him while his value is as high as it’ll get, after hitting .314.)

    By the way, that photo of Raul does not remind me of Roberto Clemente.

  74. HamNasty on October 8th, 2007 7:31 pm

    There is a great chance Jeter finishes with more GDP then hits. Can’t wait to see how they blame A-Rod for that.

  75. jlc on October 8th, 2007 7:48 pm

    Ugh, Ibañez (thanks to those who told me how to get the tilde) and Clemente in the same sentence? Forget about talent. With that hideous pasty, bald head and weird little soul patch Raul has?

  76. msb on October 9th, 2007 8:31 am

    ah, the specualtion season opens:

    “The Angels prefer the free-agent route, but Scioscia said that hardly looks promising. “I think if we are going to try to improve offensively, it’s most likely going to have to either come from within or from trades, because on the free-agent market, I’m not sure there’s the impact guy you’re looking for,” Scioscia said.

    The proven third baseman the Angels could target in a trade are the Mariners’ Adrian Beltre and the Orioles’ Miguel Tejada, who is actually a shortstop that would be asked to change positions. “

  77. scott19 on October 9th, 2007 9:56 am

    I’m guessing that quote might’ve come from an LA newspaper.

    Geez, what a bunch of vultures.

  78. joser on December 20th, 2007 2:41 am

    Man, Detroit found something a lot better than Ibanez, didn’t they?

  79. joser on December 20th, 2007 2:43 am


    ooops, wrong thread

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