Cleveland v Boston

DMZ · October 13, 2007 at 4:16 pm · Filed Under General baseball 

I know, I’m still bummed out the M’s didn’t squeeze into the playoffs, but as an AI once told me*

but there’s no use crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying ’till you run out of cake

That’s right! We’ll get a bunch of new players together and get ’em next year! No need to be down. In the meantime, there’s a fine game to enjoy. I mean, uhhh, tonight’s playoff game! The Indians/Red Sox series may be the best of the post-season, and I’m looking forward to watching Carmona face up against post season legend Curt Schilling tonight. Go team!

* sang, more properly


91 Responses to “Cleveland v Boston”

  1. joser on October 13th, 2007 10:53 pm

    I’m sure they’ll update if eventually, but it looks like the AP stringer wrote the game summary at the end of the 6th inning and then went to bed.

  2. JI on October 13th, 2007 11:23 pm

    Re: #50

    I think they have a good opportunity to trade Manny.

    I know it’s a bit of a longshot, but I’d love to see A-Rod in Boston.

  3. joser on October 13th, 2007 11:41 pm

    A-Rod in Boston frees up money for the Yankees to chase Santana. Though ARod remaining in pinstripes gives Boston that opportunity. I’m just worried it will be ARod to the Angels.

  4. thefin190 on October 14th, 2007 12:03 am

    Man its weird how Gagne was on the verge resurrecting his career in Texas to becoming the Rick White of Boston. Poor guy.

    50 – Please make sure you don’t hint that to Bavasi, he might be tempted to trade for him.

  5. scott19 on October 14th, 2007 1:20 am

    43/45: I think that’s generally the way the so-called premium tier is supposed to work — with certain high-demand teams (Yankees, Red Sox) ALWAYS being in that tier while the rest of the teams there would rotate in or out depending on their standing and demand (such as the Indians or Tigers). The Canucks, in fact, did just this with their premium ticket scheme — adding teams like Anaheim and Calgary to their premium tier after they’d both been in contention for a number of years and the demand to see them was higher.

    BTW, I also love the idea of a visitor’s tax on Yankee and Red Sox Nation. If they’re gonna come into Safeco for the sole purpose of being obnoxious and trying to take the place over, I say charge them Diamond Club rates — even in the bleachers! 😉

  6. Teej on October 14th, 2007 1:58 am

    The cake is a lie!

  7. Nichos on October 14th, 2007 2:33 am

    Ok, so i have been coming to this site for almost 2 years and have never registered because so often my argument would be brought up by someone more eloquent than I. Then you went and referrenced the coolest game i have played since baseball simulator on super nintendo. Seeing as Teej already beat me too the cake is a lie, i must acknowledge my best friend, companion cube. Through him all things are possible, hes kind of like the Ichiro of Aperture Science.

    now a toast to the indians and red soxs, both of whom are Still Alive.

  8. JMHawkins on October 14th, 2007 9:10 am

    And I didn’t realize that the guy the M’s traded [Asdrubal] for is now completely out of baseball.

    Not completely out of baseball. I heard him doing pre-game analysis on, I think, Westwood One, during the NLDS. You would’ve thought the M’s would have him on FSN or KOMO, considering what they gave up to get him.

    As far as the premium game fee, not only is there a $3 surcharge, it’s on top of a $2 general increase in ticket prices. As far as I’m concerned, the team is still producing an inferior product to what they had from 2000-2003, and Safeco was barely half-full for most of last season. Did they hire a bunch of ex-public transit folks for their BizDev department (“Hmmm, not enough people riding the bus. Better raise prices to cover our costs.”).

  9. James T on October 14th, 2007 10:03 am

    Well, that went horribly awry. The last 3 guys on the pitching staff looked horrible. Of course, it would help if Jason “He studies the scouting reports more than any 10 of you lousy fans studied for the SAT’s” Varitek could be bothered to call some different pitches for Gagne.

    They quoted Laird, Texas’s catcher in the Boston Globe a week or so back saying that Gagne was most effective when he threw curves at the start of the at bat then went to mostly changeups. Varitek NEVER calls that mix of pitches. Nobody even swings at Gagne’s curve but Varitek seldom calls it. He started off Blake with a curve and called then finished him off with a fastball.

    There’s a cult attitude among the boston media that Varitek is great and magnificent. Any pitched called by Varitek is a brilliant choice because it was called by Varitek. And I’m just a fan. But how does a guy have a pitch that he can throw for strikes that no one ever looks for or swings at and which the most brilliant catcher ever won’t call?

    Gagne’s had a couple bad outings where he got behind in the count whereupon Varitek called for fastball after fastball, most of which were out of the strike zone. Maybe there’s some obscure quantum mechanics of pitch calling that makes sense of what seems idiotic from the newtonian understanding of a fan. But until it’s explained to me, the pitch calling for Gagne is simply stupid.

    Oh, and Javier Lopez has been, for no discernible reason, a favorite of Francona. But if you’re a lefty reliever and you can’t get Trot Nixon out, you are not of any use.

  10. joser on October 14th, 2007 11:31 am

    I didn’t realize Gagne was totally enslaved by Varitek, and couldn’t shake off a pitch or discuss different tactics before a game. Amazing.

  11. James T on October 14th, 2007 11:52 am

    Ironically, it seems to be the same enslavement suffered by Felix Hernandez who throws all fastballs then switches to all breaking pitches. Why doesn’t he just shake of most of the signals too?

  12. Jeff Nye on October 14th, 2007 12:01 pm

    Shaking off Varitek is like giving God the middle finger, in Boston.

  13. scott19 on October 14th, 2007 1:56 pm

    59: James — I think I could hear the collective groan of New England last night from 3000 miles away in that 11th inning! What I’m wondering is…where is the coaching staff in all of this? Don’t get me wrong, Varitek calls a decent game for the most part…however, he’s no living deity amongst us. This is where Francona and the pitching and bullpen coaches need to step in and make sure everybody’s on the same page. JV may study the scouting reports intensely, but he’s obviously missing something if he’s not calling the correct pitch sequence in those situations.

    BTW, I agree on Javier Lopez — JAVY Lopez the catcher would’ve probably done a better job pitching to Trot at that point!

  14. dw on October 14th, 2007 2:35 pm

    All that talk, and no one mentioned that Jonathan Coulton wrote the closing theme DMZ linked to?

    Just genius.

  15. James T on October 14th, 2007 3:00 pm

    63: Scott-I don’t know. I know I and some other fans had a similar complaint about Varitek’s pitch calling for Matsuzaka. He came over with a rep for being able to throw 5 pitches well. But in short order, Varitek was focusing almost solely on two. Fastball and Slider. I was at a game against the Tigers in which Matsuzaka threw 5 or 6 splitters the whole game (8 or 9 innings pitched) and every single time the Tigers hitter flailed risibly at it. But Tek wouldn’t call any more than that.

    Finally, about a month ago there was a statement in the papers from Matsuzaka to the effect that he had to throw his breaking pitches better so that Captain Varitek would feel free to call his whole repertoire of pitches. And Farrell, the pitching coach, was also quoted as wanting to see fewer fastballs. It really doesn’t seem to have changed much since then, maybe very slightly. Watch on Monday. See if Matsuzaka isn’t throwing something like 60% fastballs or more with the biggest portion of breaking pitches being sliders so that only 10% or fewer pitchers are any of curves, splitters and changeups.

    It’s very odd to watch because before Matsuzaka came over I saw an interview with Bobby Valentine in which he said that it would be a big mistake to make Matsuzaka pitch like every normal pitcher. And yet that’s exactly what’s happened. He doesn’t pitch “backwards” at all.

    I guess, going back to the initial point, Farrell seems to be aware of everything that’s going on and while he was quoted obliquely criticizing Varitek’s pitch calling for Matsuzaka I don’t know of it with regard to Gagne.

  16. James T on October 14th, 2007 3:03 pm

    I meant to note that Matsuzaka’s statement in the papers came across, to me, as classic japanese style taking of blame oneself when actually (reading between the lines) criticizing someone else.

  17. JH on October 14th, 2007 5:28 pm

    WOW! Never expected to see a Jonathan Coulton reference up at USSM.

    Skullcrusher Mountain is sheer brilliance. A love ballad sung from the perspective of an evil super-genius. Pure gold.

  18. smb on October 14th, 2007 7:41 pm


    I went to watch the game and didn’t come back. I thought Big Stein had a point that it’s not very fair that the Yankees are making all this “premium game” money for other teams and not seeing any benefit from it…but only in the context that owners are simultaneously pocketing earnings from revenue sharing. Disagree?

  19. smb on October 14th, 2007 7:43 pm

    By pocketing I mean not putting the money into making the team more competitive, of course. And not to imply that I don’t enjoy things being unfair for the Yankees for a change…

  20. eponymous coward on October 14th, 2007 8:14 pm

    The upside is that Bob Aylward DID promise delicious and moist cake, along with the season ticket increases.

  21. joser on October 14th, 2007 9:01 pm

    Well, I guess nobody watches the NL. Understandably, for a bunch of reasons. But I’ve been cheering for the Rox since the play-in game vs the Padres, and it’s starting to look like they are never going to lose again this year. So, since this is a game thread where anything goes, here are my…

    Top Ten Reasons to Cheer for the Rockies

    10. Never been to the WS before, giving fans of certain other teams hope.

    9. They’re the only team left that, in the most generous way, can be said to come from the “northwest.”

    8. Somehow are going deep into the postseason without “veteran presence” or “being through the wars.”

    7. Clearly demonstrate (even if the talking heads don’t notice) that defense matters as much as offense and pitching (just 68 errors for the season — 15 less than the next team — gave them a .98925 fielding percentage, an MLB record).

    6. Have maybe the best rookie shortstop in a generation (taken 4 picks after Jeff Clement).

    5. Every hit by Kazuo Matsui drives another stake into the hearts of Mets fans (and, more satisfyingly, into the NY media).

    4. SP Jeff Francis majored in physics and astronomy for three years at the University of British
    Columbia (“I probably won’t finish because it’s not the kind of degree you get through the mail”).

    3. Voted a full share of postseason bonus to Mike Coolbaugh’s family, and didn’t make a big PR event out of it (even their GM only found out when he was reviewing the paperwork).

    2. Very real chance to see a World Series game called because of snow.

    …and the #1 reason to cheer for the Rox:

    1. They’re the 4H (Holliday, Hawpe, Helton, and the Humidor) Team of Destiny!

  22. dw on October 14th, 2007 9:16 pm

    Well, I guess nobody watches the NL.

    I do. But it’s breaking my heart. I switched from being a Rockies fan to being an M’s fan a number of years ago.

    The more the Rockies win, the more I feel like I made the wrong decision.

  23. Tom on October 14th, 2007 9:29 pm

    Three cheers for our old pal JoeJessica (Yorvit).

  24. scott19 on October 14th, 2007 9:36 pm

    71: Great post, Joser…could not have said it better myself!

  25. joser on October 14th, 2007 10:23 pm

    Three cheers for our old pal JoeJessica (Yorvit).

    Yeah, he was definitely the hero tonight, and this postseason he’s 8-for-21 with 8 RBI while handling a young pitching staff. Jeff Cirillo is 2-for-3 as a pinch hitter. Heck, even Bob Melvin has 3 post-season wins (though it sure doesn’t look like he’s going to get any more).

    And man, Tulowitzki can pick. “Diamondbacks get a runner on…double play. Dimondbacks get a runner on…double-play.” Combine a ground-ball pitching staff with that kind of defense and great things happen.

    Though “Tulowitzki to Matsui to Helton” isn’t going to make for any great “Tinker to Evers to Chance” style ditties.

  26. msb on October 14th, 2007 10:25 pm

    #68– I wasn’t disagreeing, I had just missed the Steinbrenner quote you were referring back to, from earlier in the thread…

  27. joser on October 14th, 2007 10:31 pm

    Man, either the AP or SI is asleep at the wheel. Last night after the AL game they posted a summary hat clearly was written no later than the 6th inning. Tonight, in place of summary, we get the history of the humidor. Which actually is quite interesting.

    ”It’s like a walk-in cooler, basically, but instead of keeping things cold, we’re maintaining a temperature and there’s a humidifier piece to it, as well,” [Rockies vice president of ballpark operations Kevin] Kahn said. ”When people come in and see it, it’s almost a universal response. They’re like, ‘Oh. This is it?’ I guess they expect to see a big vat of water with baseballs bobbing around.”

  28. joser on October 14th, 2007 10:38 pm

    Oh, and Phoenix couldn’t manage a sellout on Thursday when it was shirtsleeve weather all evening. Colorado managed a 50,000-fan sell-out on a Sunday night in a freezing drizzle.

  29. jlc on October 14th, 2007 10:51 pm

    Nicely done, joser. If the Sox aren’t in the Series, I’ll be on the Rox train. They are so much fun to watch.

  30. Tom on October 14th, 2007 11:03 pm

    This 9 day layoff the Rockies are about to get though could kill them.

  31. thefin190 on October 14th, 2007 11:55 pm

    I was just wondering. How come it seems like the D-Backs aren’t good with attendence? I mean they have a fairly new stadium which keeps people cool, a good ball club, and more. Is it because there aren’t many baseball fans in that area, or is it because they cheer for the older southern California teams, or the other teams that come down for spring training? Is it the same case as in Florida but to a much lesser degree?

  32. scott19 on October 15th, 2007 1:48 am

    81: Bingo — it IS Florida, but to a lesser degree. IMHO (as well as a little personal experience — having lived for a while myself in Vegas, which has a lot of the same issues), the piss-poor attendance of the FL & AZ teams can largely be blamed on the following:

    1) A largely transient population — including many recent transplants from other parts of the country;

    2) A large number of retirees on fixed incomes, many of which cannot afford to go to major league sports games on a regular basis;

    3) A large number of “snowbirds” (i.e. winter-dwellers) who return to northern states for the summer months.

    This, to a large degree, accounts for why you sometimes hear things like “well, they only show up when the Yanks, Red Sox, Mets, or Cubs are in town” or “geez, there were bigger crowds here during spring training” in regards to those teams.

    You’re right…Chase/BOB is a very nice ballpark. I got to see a D-Backs-Astros game down there back in ’98 — when it was about 108 outside and a nice cool 78 in! Ironically, there was a pretty good crowd on hand that day; perhaps the “newness” of the place hadn’t worn off yet. Sadly, it seems like the better that team has played over the years, the worse their attendance has gotten.

    With all due respect to D-Back “Nation”, one could almost question the existence of ANY of the four major-league sports franchises in Phoenix, since none of them have done particularly well from an attendance standpoint over the years (except for, perhaps, the Suns — who’ve been there longer than anybody else). I know I’m probably gonna get flamed by some passionate D-Backs/Cards/Suns/Coyotes fan for saying so…but just like Florida, major league sports simply could not resist the potential cash cow they saw in growing population numbers — and didn’t realize that, strangely enough, it turned out to be one of the least passionate sports markets in the country.

  33. The Ghost of Spike Owen on October 15th, 2007 8:43 am

    JoeJessica NLCS Game 3 hero? Wow. Did not see that one coming.

  34. msb on October 15th, 2007 8:52 am


    Manager Bob Melvin says he will start Jeff Cirillo at second base for Monday’s Game 4 of the NLCS. Cirillo is starting over Augie Ojeda in an effort to ignite the Diamondbacks’ stagnant offense.

  35. msb on October 15th, 2007 9:00 am

    “Torrealba comes up big in big games”

    oh, see, that was the problem. He just never had any big games to step up in here….

  36. HamNasty on October 15th, 2007 9:30 am

    71- Great post and true. Here are 5 more reasons that I am sure just missed your top 10.

    11. Trying to watch Joe Buck and Tim McCarver announce a Rockies World Series win over the Red Sox when they only know Rockies names yet nothing about them. We could see FOX reach broadcastings all time worst.

    12. They were predicted to finish last is what was suppose to be the worst division in baseball.

    13. I am from Colorado (was at Game 3 NLCS) and could see a World Series game. I bit selfish but I really only had 4 other reasons to root for them.

    14. Their post season pitching staff is a Canadian, a Pirate reject, and 2 kids who started pitching at MLB level in August.

    15. 25 of 26 to finish a season would never happen again in our lifetimes. On top of the fact they had a 4.2 percent chance at the playoffs on September 28th.

  37. Russ on October 15th, 2007 10:17 am

    It is sad to me the number of players, who have either played for the M’s or were jettisoned from the farm system, who are playing this October.

    It’s good to see them doing well but we sure let a lot of fine players go just to see them play well for others. JoeJessica is having a fine post season series. Many ‘better’ players have totally tanked in the post season and he steps up to deliver night after night.

    I’m pulling for the Rockies for many reasons not the least of which their vote of shares to Coolbaugh’s widow. A classy bunch of players who are sticking together despite a resounding lack of battling, war something or another and too many rookies.

    ps. I really had to ignore the posting promise. I’m sure this adds nothing…sorry.

  38. scott19 on October 15th, 2007 12:19 pm

    Yeah, imagine that…the Rox are getting it done without any of those time-honored intangibles that every “great” team needs — i.e. veteran goodness, whining prima donnas, media-toady superstars whom the Fox guys can have a big man-crush over, etc., etc.

  39. scott19 on October 15th, 2007 12:57 pm

    Oh, and on that note, I wonder if Joe Buck will be wearing his “I MISS DEREK JETER” pin on his lapel for Game 1 of the World Series?! 😮

  40. joser on October 15th, 2007 1:48 pm

    If the Indians come back against the Red Sox and go to the WS, Buck will be wearing his “I miss anybody I’ve ever heard of” pin. Though that won’t stop him: during the last game, he actually called Sizemore “the Indian’s Derek Jeter.”

    Buck and all the other Jeterfelators need to grow eyes. If you’re a fan of baseball, you have to love watching Tulowitzki. He gets to balls Jeter wouldn’t even break his crouch for because they are obviously so far out of his zone. Tulowitzki in his rookie season already has an unassisted triple-play (only the 13th in the history of the game) and he probably would’ve had another one last night if Matsui hadn’t got in the way.

  41. HamNasty on October 15th, 2007 4:55 pm

    Kenny Lofton perpetuating the Veteran Grit Myth.

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