Mike Hargrove, your 2005 manager
“You keep getting hit on the head with a hammer, after a while you start looking for the hammer whether it’s there or not.”
–Mike Hargrove
What’s your hammer’s name? Bob Melvin? Willie Bloomquist? Scott Spiezio? The sacrifice bunt? The three-reliever inning?
We have so many choices.
So here’s what I want to toss out about Hargrove, and I’d love to hear dissenting opinions, additions, contradictions, and whatnot. This is me looking through notes and junk while I watch the Astros-Cardinals game (Rolen HR! Woooo!), so understand this isn’t intended as the definitive or even a reasonably accurate Hargrove rundown.
Hargrove has had two stints as a manager coming into this one. First, he had several years with the Indians. During this time the Indians had some great young talent, and some serious pitching problems you might have heard about. Part of Hargrove’s problem was his pitching coach was pretty terrible. The team suffered a lot of problems with pitchers not admitting they were hurt, particularly, and the pitching coach didn’t pick up on it, either.
That aside, he did work Colon hard, didn’t like Colon’s approach, and didn’t go that easy on Jaret Wright either, and Jaret Wright’s only now come back around.
Bryan Price might serve Hargrove well, at that. Especially if Price hasn’t converted to worshipping crazy old-school craven pitcher idols from rational workload management. But it’s been clear from his managerial history that he needs a good pitching coach who communicates well with his staff and can also tell Hargrove things he may not want to hear (“Lay off that guy.”)
I’m also encouraged that even given players that could have been used to go little-ball crazy, Hargrove didn’t really do that.
In Baltimore, there are some hopeful signs. Hargrove displayed a flexibility in role management we haven’t really seen here… uh, ever. We saw a little of, say, the crazy multi-headed Leone-Spiezio-Bucky-Edgar DH machinations, but Hargrove was willing to do things like play Melvin Mora in left field and short to get him in the lineup every day, depending on who else he was subbing into short and left against who. So like instead of a regular platoon, he’d set up a platoon of two guys around Mora to get Mora playing time. He’s demonstrated releatedly that he’s willing to experiment with trying players at other positions, even if initially ugly, for long-term gains. That’s pretty cool.
What else? Despite that, he’s never been particularly aggressive about getting his bench into the game, which given the M’s historical benches, might be just fine. He also rarely pinch-hit during games, and so was okay with a short bench.
He’s shown some proclivity for the kind of role-fitting in relievers that we saw (and disliked) in Melvin, particularly in seeing lefties as situational relievers (ala Rhodes). He’s liked carrying 12 pitchers on a roster, which isn’t that bad with a short bench, but really a waste of a roster spot. Especially considering that the team’s going to have a surplus of decent long-relief candidates and not many situational guys, while in the field they could probably use some versatility.
In what may be a good sign for us, though, Hargrove also seemed to have a keen eye in Cleveland for looking out for tiring starters and pulling them before they could wreck a good start, and relying on a deep bullpen (which the Mariners could have, if they assemble things well next year).
I don’t blame Hargrove at all for the failure of the Russ Branyan Experiment. There was at the time a huge stathead contingent that belived his massive power, walks, and career-eating strikeout virus meant he was the next Rob Deer. I figured he was worth a shot, but Branyan never controlled the strikeouts and has never had the career so many thought he would, under Hargrove or anyone else.
Similarly, I don’t blame him at all for the failure of the Orioles. That team put the retch in wretched, and had all kinds of lineup problems. As much as the Indians never seemed to put together a pitching staff for him, the Orioles never provided a decent lineup for them.
The really bad thing is that in the post-season, Hargrove did not do well for a number of reasons and it got him fired in Cleveland. I’m not sure he’s going to have to worry about that for a while in Seattle.
Having written this, I’m a lot more positive about the hire than I was when I started. But as Dave said, managers do their jobs differently with different teams, and we’re not really going to know how Hargrove does here until he’s doing it.
Hope this was helpful in some way.
Whooosh
I’m back. Got sick there, sorry. Expectations guide to Hargrove up tonight, hopefully. Also, today’s my brother’s birthday — whooo! Good job on living another year there, Craig.
In more Mariner related news, tomorrow is the birthday of one Ichiro!
ALCS
The biggest collapse in the history of professional sports.
And it couldn’t have happened to a more deserving team.
Hargrove It Is
As you’ve likely all heard by now, Mike Hargrove is the new Mariners manager. Considering that the organization resigned themselves to hiring a manager with previous experience (which pretty much limits you to retreads who have been fired recently), this is probably about as good as we could have hoped for. Hargrove has a history of success with rebuilding teams into perenniel contenders. He’s not a hard line old school or new school guy, and will do some things well and some things not as well as we’d prefer. He’s a low-risk hire who won’t cause the team to implode around him and will be as successful as the talent he is given.
All in all, we could have done a lot worse, and I’m not certain we could have done much better.
Yankee Stadium
You know, all it would take is — just once — for an umpiring crew to have the balls to award the visiting team a win when the pathetic fans at pathetic Yankee Stadium decide to make themselves part of the game by throwing crap on the field. I mean, if there aren’t ever going to be consequences, why shouldn’t they throw baseballs, batteries and trash on the playing field?
Go Red Sox.
Grover or Grady
According to Finnigan, the two leading candidates for the manager spot are Mike Hargrove and Grady Little, who will be in Seattle tomorrow for final interviews.
Really, I’m just happy that Bowa, Baylor, and Collins didn’t make the cut. If I had to choose between Little and Hargrove, I’d probably go with Grover. Being part of the Indians organization for the past year cannot have been bad for him, as its pretty well known that I consider them to be the best run front office in baseball. I still don’t think we can say with any kind of certainty which one would be a better choice, but I’ll throw my weak support towards Mike Hargrove.
October baseball
A six hour marathon sends the ALCS back to New York. Brandon Backe and Woody Williams throw dueling one-hitters and the Cards-Astros are scoreless in the ninth inning of a tied series.
I’m sorry, but there’s just nothing better than October baseball.
Matsui v. Ichiro!
Is Hideki Matsui really so much more popular in Japan than Ichiro! that it’s “not even close”? I have trouble believing the Fox guys when they say that. I mean… not even close? Popularity-wise, I’d say that Carrot Top is nowhere nearly as popular as say, kittens. But any two baseball players? You’d have to go Bonds v. Cal Ripken Jr. to get in that territory.
Bonds
I’ve long been a booster of Barry Bonds. I’ve also, as readers here know, said that until such time as we can determine for certain that any player used illegal performance-enhancing drugs, we should refrain from making that kind of accusation.
I read the San Francisco Chronicle story this morning and really, it was the first time I’d read something that made me sigh, hang my head and think “It’s probably only a matter of time before they prove it.”
“Barry, you’re killing me,” I told my awesome Barry Bonds bobblehead.
He nodded.
Random Thoughts
Just because, a list of things that have strolled through my mind the past few days, as I’ve actually been able to watch a little bit of playoff baseball.
1. I could have sworn that Tim McCarver told me that pitching and defense won championships. Why are the four remaining teams all offensive machines who hit the crap out of the baseball?
2. How do the Yankees spend $180 million to build a roster and fail to come up with a decent LOOGY, especially when your division rival boasts a line-up of lefties with platoon issues?
3. Carlos Beltran is pretty good.
4. Albert Pujols is better.
5. Nearly every team left in the postseason has been burned by bringing in inferior middle relievers to face the heart of the order in the 6th and 7th inning, while their closer loses a chance to close anything out and ends up sitting on his hands. Have we ever seen a more glaring series of examples that the current way to build a bullpen is not ideal? The organization who has determination to bring back a true “relief ace” is going to reap some pretty big rewards.
6. Alex Rodriguez. Jason Varitek. David Ortiz. Derek Lowe. John Olerud. Mike Myers. The ALCS is a collection of reminders of Mariner blunders over the past 10 years. Good times…
7. I guarantee that we hear a Clint Nageotte-Brad Lidge comparison at least once during the offseason, especially if they officially decide to move him to the bullpen permanently.